*V Guyver Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Seems the Spectrum.net has started to host the Guyver, I was looking at the votes to see how much of it was approved by the community, an amazing gracious 97 percent. I didn't get a chance to read it yet because I'm crashing, but please take a look and scrutinize. http://view.thespectrum.net/series/guyver.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 scrutinize what? that they are yet another site that have took our work without permission? the fact that they have removed our credits page? the fact that our requests not to mirror our work have been ignored? yes it is very gracious that they voted guyver at 97 percent when they are essentially violating the very i9dea of guyver advocacy. I was planning on purchasing guyveradvocacy.org to push this site into a new era, but things like this upset me so much that I am rethinking it. durendal, if you are reading this, I am starting to think we should go with your idea. to not release any translation to the general public and reserve it only for trusted members who we know well. I'm sick of this drenn. well anyway, thanks for posting this v-guyver. we needed to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveblackeye152 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I hope I'm trusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 you have 470 posts and have been around since before this site existed. you have no reason to be concerned. but just to elaborate, durendal's suggestion was to give each member a undetectably unique version of a scanlation so that if it were ever re-posted, we could easily track it back to the perpetrator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durendal Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I said that? Well, I probably did but don't remember at the moment. In any case, if guyver becomes popular and the translated manga is put out of the public's reach, somebody else is bound to release a translated chapter sooner or later. You have to admit, the raws aren't exactly hard to come by. Some new group will bound to acquire the raws and do a speed translation. It becomes bigger and sooner or later, they'll end up being served by cease and desist orders from some digital copyright firms. Worst, it becomes so popular that Tokyopop decides to pick it up and screw with the translations. without realizing it, everyone will be calling Sho "Joe" and Agito will be named "Khan" and Alchanfel will be refered to as "Mighty Man". Maybe history will be changed that Guyver Zero drove out the Advents with his heroic acts and the Unit G has since been handed down to generations and generation, only activating once the threat of the "Alien Invaders" becomes apparent again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*V Guyver Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 I see, so it is our forums work? Well that sucks. the good thing is, it's on a popular site where it can gain a new fanbase, the bad, they took it from the forums work without asking. Two things that can be done, the first one is from now on, we should add a data mark to the images, it can be coded into the data itself, some sites had to pull down their stolen images because the image had a coded copyright notice. Second option, watermarks, with "URL" and "do not post on sites", "contact info" and "copyright disclaimer" all or just a select few, you can also use a logo. That suggestion you made, seems like a lot of work since you might have to edit each image file for a single member. This will suck up time and bandwidth i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Boosted Dude Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Second option, watermarks, with "URL" and "do not post on sites", "contact info" and "copyright disclaimer" all or just a select few, you can also use a logo. We already do this... http://view.thespectrum.net/manga/Guyver/Volume%2027/guyver_v27_013.jpg we've taken quite a few measures to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Ryuki, your idea is very extreme. i think a simpler idea is to make this forum private and close registrations. perhaps introduce an invitation system. so far, no one has touched the recent volumes since i think they just depend on us to release them. if the volumes do not leave this forum, i don't foresee anyone else being that bothered. and if they are, well then i don't see them getting round to it till at least months after we have our version, making theirs pretty redundant for us lot anyway. pruning members who have been inactive for a certain amount of time before privatizing the forum would probably be a good idea too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 bbdude, you took the thought right outta my head. I was thinking last night before i fell asleep that the best thing for me to do is to close registrations and then delete all members who are inactive. then make a subforum only accessible to members who I know and trust. those members can get a scanlation. the other members.... maybe we can release just the translation to the general public after a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I said that? Well, I probably did but don't remember at the moment. In any case, if guyver becomes popular and the translated manga is put out of the public's reach, somebody else is bound to release a translated chapter sooner or later. You have to admit, the raws aren't exactly hard to come by. if that were to happen, guyver advocacy would have been a success. but up til now all we have seen is cheap-ass manga hosting sites, ripping off hard work without so much as a by-your leave, to drive up their traffic and reap the profits from their advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost unit Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 i totally agree Bio booster maybe we should privatize the site after all the hard work that this site has worked on from manga to illustrated books that are translated or being translated.why should other sites benefit from it. I was also thinking of a watermark diagonally across the page with our site and only give the vip members access to unwatermarked pages..but it will probably take along time to edit every page but is it gonna cost to make this site private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 i've closed new registrations for now. but maybe it will achieve nothing by making the registrations restricted. I mean, all that would achieve is stopping people from talking with us. I think that what would be required is a separate user group for people who I know and trust and a hidden forum that gives access to scanlations. after all, scanlations did arise merely out of an interest in helping our friends to read it easier. the translations originally started out as just that. text translations. it took us a long time to decide that it might be ok to scanlate. I mean, our intention is to make it easier for people who own the manga, to read the manga. NOT to give manga to people for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
river_chaos Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Worst, it becomes so popular that Tokyopop decides to pick it up and screw with the translations. without realizing it, everyone will be calling Sho "Joe" and Agito will be named "Khan" and Alchanfel will be refered to as "Mighty Man". Maybe history will be changed that Guyver Zero drove out the Advents with his heroic acts and the Unit G has since been handed down to generations and generation, only activating once the threat of the "Alien Invaders" becomes apparent again. Uh, dude. TokyoPop's out of business, at least here in America that is. Still, I don't think they'd screw up a manga that much *knocks on wood*. Still, it pisses me off when people plagarize like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 well actually that extreme idea was put forth by me , which was inspired by another manga group... but anyway i do believe a less harsher / easier route would be to do the private subforum suggested- perhaps just have a Guyver Advocacy section that is specifically for the monthly chapters and tankobons - leave the vdf and other projects in the public as general guyver info maybe?? if Ryuki does that then maybe those people who will miss the guyver out there who get it elsewhere from the sites that rip off the advocacys good work will come looking and find japan-legend.com / guyveradvocacy.org (if it happens) ... anyway,i dont know but i think we should do something so Ryuki doesnt just give up altogether!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 ah sorry about that Aether, I got mixed up with who suggested it because we were all conversing at the same time. anyway,i dont know but i think we should do something so Ryuki doesnt just give up altogether!!!! yeah it's tough. I get so angry when people do this. I feel like I ought to ask myself if I am a hypocrite to get so angry. I mean, we are presenting yoshiki takaya's work without his express permission. but i thought about this. we are doing this to try and raise the status of his work and for that reason alone. we are not simply copying his manga so people can get it for free, we are translating it and presenting a translated version because it is not available elsewhere. but that is where the train should stop. we have made it available in english, there is no reason and no excuse for posting it elsewhere. unless it is in a different language. I agree with leaving various things in public domain, things that are already there. I think that moving on from here, we'll need to think about how we can all approach scanlations of future chapters, but chapters that are already done, they have already been ripped off so there is no sense in withholding them. it achieves nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durendal Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Making it harder for people to get the goods just makes people push harder in acquiring them. It's the bane in all society, everyone wants what's illegal. It also affects the rule of supply and demand. If the goods are considered hard to come by, some people might be willing to pay for a premium amount to get it. And I'm not talking about the actual books. Was the site notified about the scanlations of how the people involved in it feel? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Was the site notified about the scanlations of how the people involved in it feel? I've done that with other sites, and been ignored many times. which makes me angrier. and I don't think I ought to go down a path that will make me angrier. to be honest, this is just one site that we have become aware of, this is representative of any number of other sites that we haven't learnt about yet. it's not this one site that is the bad egg, it is all sites like this and it's when another one is highlighted it is one big reminder of how people are responding to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*V Guyver Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 Personally I think we should discuss things with the person running the spectrum.net. i just posted a message on the voting section over the anger it generated here and provided the links to the forums. Also, claiming they took it form our site is kinda hard to prove due to people who may be keeping a personal archive. (I admittedly have 15 of some of the newer chapters.) All this despite the watermarks. I looked up how to embed EXIF data into images for copyright images, with all the information you want about the hosting. here is the guide. http://www.texaschicksblogsandpics.com/how-to-embed-copyright-information-in-your-work/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durendal Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I will have to reiterate that anything you posted in a public forum is already considered as public domain. We all chose this path, so it would be lying to say that something like this was not expected. I will admit, after all these years in the service of fans, I have grown somewhat numb and immune to these kinds of things. Be it ripping your work off, bashing your work or any kind of offending remarks or actions, I've already been through all of that. Whatever you do, it's not going to change the fact that it has already happened, and nothing we can do to have it undone. That's the internet for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver0 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) Ryuki, You have every right to be angry for all the hard work that you and other members do for this site is being ripped off. Making the translated version of the manga available only to members you trust is extreme, but I do agree with it. Even though that hurts me to type because I am sure I haven't been a member long enough to have earned any trust, but I understand and would probably take the same action(s). The only alternatives I can think of is either providing just the translations and telling members where they can get the raws if they want to do the editing themselves. Or creating a logo that would go on every page. I know the later might irritate people because they don't want anything obstructing the image, but i have seen it deter people from copying and pasting on their sites and then taking credit for it. More importantly please don't give up and be discouraged because people want to be dicks. Heck to show a sign of faith and to say not everyone is a dick I remember you mentioning that the "User Photo" I have on this site is one of your creations, well I am deleting the photo from my computer. Edited December 10, 2012 by Guyver0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 to be honest I would really like to know how everyone else feels about this. sure, I am paying for this site every month, I did start the advocacy project, and helped to grow it, I do maintain the workings of this place... but I'm not too stupid to realise that if I were to stop doing all of this, some other people would do it instead. also, the other people who have contributed have as much to say about this as I. Durendal, it is clear that you are not too fussed about it. But those pages on that site have been worked on by some of you guys too. how do you feel about it. are you happy for me to champion this cause on your behalf or would you rather I hold back and not react strongly in your interests? then there are some great suggestions here. to place a very large watermark on it would certainly be effective. if people are in favour of that, then I would add my support to that idea as well. personally, I don't think it is fair. sometimes when fans are relying on me to do something such as uploading some files or liaising between our contributors, I make the decision to not do anything because I am so upset by people stealing our hard work. And this is not fair on the people who have done nothing wrong. by all means if you can find a way to help me be ok with this kind of thing, that is if you think it is ok, then do that. because i don't like being angry. guyver0, I need to point out that you are here today, the day this thread was posted, and you have made a large amount of posts, you are contributing constructively, people like you would not need to be concerned. it is easy for any of us to tell who is a supporter of this site and who is not. clue: the ones who don't support this site are not here and do not post. after all, I cannot imagine that anyone here could be so callous and two faced to be here pretending to support us and then rip us off at the next moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durendal Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Ryuki, it's not that I don't care at all about the cause. This kind of thing just happens to me a lot of times, that I have grown accustomed to it. At the moment, I don't have a lot of energy to do most of the things that I usually do, so given that, it would only waste my energy to get upset over something that does not physically affect me. It is also my principle to not do anything when upset, as anger tends to make people do extreme things. Better to calm down a little before doing anything drastic. I'm all for championing the cause, I just don't like to do it in a blind rage. I would agree to the watermark. Being a leecher myself, I don't mind having watermarks on the comics that I read as long as I can still understand what is happening in what I am reading. Also consider the original intent of the Guyver Advocacy. To be honest, when I first stumbled on to theguyver.net, I was itching to read the guyver manga even though I don't have the actual books. Back then, it was hard for me because I don't own the actual books. Since I don't own the books, there is no way for me to read the manga since each volume requires a password that can be obtained when you have the actual books. But given the current resources, such method would no longer be effective simply because raws are readily available when you know where to look. To this day, I have never read any of the Guyver manga aside from the ones that the advocacy gave me to translate. I have not read any of the volumes that does not have my name on it. And I have never stored any of the guyver scanlation in my hard drive. So imagine how happy I was when the TV series was aired on cable television back then. You can see why I translated the TV series despite my apprehension to translating anime. That's how much I support the cause. But no matter how much you support the cause, once you scan, translate, edit and post the manga into a public forum, you are no different from any other scanlation group out there, no matter how much disclaimer you put to buy the books etc, to me, those are just excuses to scanlate the manga. Even this site we are talking about, they have links on the bottom of the manga that allows the reader to purchase the books that shows it supports the author, but look how much we lambaste the site. I am asking, is the Guyver Advocacy better than any other scanlation groups out there? If yes, how so? If we are to maintain the spirit of the original advocacy, my suggestion is to post only the translations, and only host a select few chapter of the manga, not all. If you give all the chapters to the leechers, what would then push them to buy the manga. Come on, do you really expect 90% of the readers of the guyver manga to go out and buy the book given that everything is already in this site? chances are, majority of that 90% won't even give a rats @$$. I'm sure you have the statistics based on the traffic of this site Ryuki. Tell me that I'm wrong. Pardon the blunt words, but my initial reaction to this is neutral and I got worked up while thinking about what the cause once stood for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSpleach Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Now correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you want to make the site more invitation only with trusted members getting a vip-like status for the scanlations . I don't know if that can work for the site. Ryuki, I understand that you don't want the scanlations to be treated like pirated material, but IMO we should make the site invitation only at least. Though I do agree with have trusted members having easy access to scanlations. Though I think new members should have to latest scanlation or if you prefer the latest raw with a separate translation script. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 how would i say... I'm not actually 'angry' or 'seething with rage'.... my anger is more the type that sits in the bottom of my mind and is calm and calculating. I don't react to rage, I just get very determined and very decisive. I make sure I make a decision well. statistics? in december, around 500 people have viewed our latest chapter release. I can't really tell much more than that. are guyver advocacy any better than other scanlation groups? no. I would expect a large amount of them have the same mission as us. manga hosting sites though... what is their mission? to make money off scanlation groups' work? it creams my corn. but as you pointed out, that site does have a link to buy the manga... that is admirable. but why have they not asked us if they can host our work? if their intention is a noble one, then surely it would be most appropriate to actually talk to us? it is very easy to contact us. so I must assume they are not noble, they merely do that to try and appear like good guys. even if we were to consider ourselves thieves for what we do (which I don't) there is such a thing as a thieves code. even thieves don't steal from other thieves. those who do are seen as lowest of the low. this is of interest - http://www.evilflowe...ments/dear-fans I'm going to open registrations. the point has been made. and keeping them closed will not achieve anything productive. I don't agree with watermarks, I agree with the reasoning behind it and i am pleased with the ideas people are providing, but I do not want to give these sites any quarter. I would like to call an end to scanlating in the way that we have been doing. I want to make it very clear, I do not want any images produced by guyver advovcacy that can be ripped off and merely re-posted to a manga aggregation site. I have an idea that i wish to go with. my proposal is a HTML coded scanlation. the page would feature the original japanese image. when the user floats the mouse pointer over the dialogue bubble, the english text would be displayed. there would be no image for manga sites to take and repost. this means that people who like to save the manga on their hard drive, would have no way of doing this, apart from saving the html page itself. but this is far better than having no guyver advocacy at all. edit: Durendal sorry to suggest that you didn't care, I was more hoping to say that you don't make a big deal out of it recently, pretty much what you said 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bellamy Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'm more for just putting a large watermark on the images. As it has been mentioned, people find a way around most everything. Watermarks however are pretty much forever. The only thing someone could do with a watermarked page is take the translation and scanlate it themselves onto a raw chapter... Which VERY few would ever do. I have seen it, but it is rare. All it needs is a large watermark diagonally across the page. Doesn't have to be a thick one that covers a lot, just the URL and the name But sadly, just putting the name and a link at the top/bottom/side isn't enough anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordSpleach Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 HTML encoded page. That sounds like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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