Let's have another look at naming

[*Jess♥]

There is still some differences among the names we use for various characters and things.

 

The one that came up more recently while working on translations was "12 heavenly generals".

I had discovered a while back that this was a reference to a buddhist thing.

So the correct translation that we use for that has to be 12 heavenly generals.

 

so what other things do we need to get sorted out for teh scanlations? I think it would help if we draw up a list of generally accepted character names and the most logical use. I'm not suggesting everyone HAS to use them, but more of a case of what we use for translations.

I mean, Archanfel is one that has so many different permutations.

I believe we need to use Archanfel for translations because it's the Archangel who fell.

I think it's written in the datafile like that too.

I use Shou because that is the most accurate transliteration. but many use Sho and that's fine. we know what we mean. We need to try and have a list for consistency in scanlations though so ...

let's get started! help me out please!

[LordSpleach]

Personally, I've been using the official names from the 2005 anime.

 

Some of the names from the OVAs never made to me. Examples. Ramocheese, Zerbubus, Reholt Guyot.

[river_chaos]

I have to wonder how the name Reholt came to be for Guyot.  Is it even a real name?

[Aether]

ive been thinking this too while editing... I agree with Lordspleach in that I think the 2005 anime is a good place to go for the names... or is it , surely Takaya was on board and passed them?? I dunno..

 

all I know is when the names of the Zoalords come up I always take a look in masterfile 3 to compare ( barcas and guyot are in masterfile 2, the others are in 3) a standard list would be good, though

Edited July 31, 2014 by Aether

[Bio-Boosted Dude]

Is Guyot spelt "Guyot" in the master file? Because it's been a while since I watched the tv series but i remember them pronouncing it "Geeoh" or something odd like that.

[*Jess♥]

the origins of 'reihalt' or whatever they called him, is from how they translated it by ear.

richard in japanese is phonetically like this :- ree hya roo tow. which can sound a lot like reihalt.

Transliterated it looks like this - rihyaruto. and could sound more like (reesharrto), depending on the proficiency of the listener.

 

well anyway I am sure you get it now.

it's also like purgstahl or however you spell it. in japanese it could sound more like pulukshterl.

 

regarding the spelling of guyot, it was written like that in the datafile. in japanese it is written gyu-oo and pronounced something like gyuo. however the word guyot is a real word and i believe can be pronounced geeh-oh which in some instances can sound very much like gyou.

pronunciation is weird sometimes. like gigantic. it is written in japanese phonetically and sounds like geeh-gan-tick. took me ages to get used to that.

 

 

who has the files from the 2005 anime? I'm sure it would be very useful to get a list of any names from there. it shouldn't really override the datafiles from the manga but it depends... let's see what we all think about it anyhow.

[LordSpleach]

I have the Master Files, and it does use Richard Guyot.

[*Chernaudi]

Strangely for all the stuff that got changed when Manga Entertainment got the rights to the Guyver OVA from US Renditions--including re-recording or remastering character voices--they didn't change the mispronunciations and misspelling of character names and such.  Maybe budget or time was limited or Manga wanted to get the stuff out in the UK/EU (the NA version was the same as the UK/EU aside from NTSC U/C vs PAL) ASAP or whatever.  That just struck me as ironic.

 

The TV series seems to be better about it because Yoshiki Takaya/Guyver Productions was much more involved with ADV for the TV series than those factions were with the English translations that US Renditions and Manga did for the OVAs.  It seemed that the copyright/IP holders let them go about the translations themselves, rather than consulting as they did for ADV.

[Aether]

Heres a list of character names from the Master Files: 

 

 

Sho Fukamachi

Tetsuro Segawa

Mizuki Segawa

Fumio Fukamachi

Akie Fukamachi

Natsuki Taga

 

Agito Makishima

Shizu Onuma

Yohei Onuma

 

Masaki Murakami

 

Aptom !

 

Genzo makashima

Oswald A Risker

Richard Guyot

 

 

 

Archanfel

Hamilcar Barcas

Sin Rubeo Amniculus

Friedrich Von Purgstall

Edward Caerleon

Li Yentsui

Waferdanos

Cabraal Khan

Jabir Ibn Hayyan

Tuatha De Galenos

Luggnagg De Krumeggnic

 

  

Zx- Tole

Thancrus

Elegen

Gaster

Derzerb

 

Zerbebuth

Ramotith

Gregole

Ramotith

Vamore

Enzyme

 

 

 

However we proceed from here and when we have a final list, I for one would appreciate a guide how to phonetically pronounce some of these I think it would be good to have the option of reading them how they sound in Japanese... like Yuki already described with gigantic.... eg -

 

Guyver gigantic ( Guyba geeh-gan-tick)

Edited August 1, 2014 by Aether

[*Jess♥]

great list. I think we can confidently use most of those, I can check the original Japanese for most of those later to cross reference etc. and can come up with some pronunciation too.

 

one I also wanted to add to the list just now as it crossed my mind...

 

Control Metal.

That caught me out for a long time, but the manga clearly says 'metal' and not 'medal'.

[TricoBren]

I have been flicking through some of your english translations and I see that some of the translators have made some classic errors commonly made by amateurs

 

The most glaring of these is the insistence of using honorifcs when we don't use those in english. They're pretty jarring and sound really unnatural in an English localization.

The other classic is the literal translation of "kore wa..?!" to "This is..?!" Definitely a huge pet hate of mine. 

 

richard in japanese is phonetically like this :- ree hya roo tow. which can sound a lot like reihalt.

 

I saw this and was really taken aback. The Japanese phonetically pronounce "Richard" as リãƒãƒ£ãƒ¼ãƒ‰ or "Richardo" not "Rihyaruto" as you seem to be implying here. Guyot certainly isn't intended to be named Richard as it's a common

foreign name and I can assure you that there is no way they would have ballsed his name so spectacularly if it was! Besides, with a name like Guyot, Richard hardly seems like a good match does it..?

 

sorry, I'm certainly not trying to come across as an nitpicking ass, it's just that I noticed this thread and after looking at random points of the scanlations was left feeling puzzled as to why there was no consistency.

[*Jess♥]

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%92%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%82%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%87%E3%83%B3%E3%83%9B%E3%83%BC%E3%83%95%EF%BC%9D%E3%82%AB%E3%83%AC%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AE%E3%83%BC

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%92%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A6%E3%82%B9

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%92%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88

 

I guess we 'amateurs' have no clue.. you should probably go and start changing all those wikipedia articles written by Japanese natives then...

 

as has been said elsewhere, if you have a problem with our work, you are more than welcome to donate your time and effort to help us improve.

 

we tend to use honorifics in some places because there is no english equivalent to put across the right emotion. It's a choice and I feel a perfectly valid one as you are the first person I can recall even mentioning it.

[Salkafar]

'Richard' is not pronounced the same way in every European language. Richard Wagner's first name is pronounced differently from Richard Lionheart.

[*Jess♥]

Interesting Salkafar.  does that suggest that Guyot is German or similar? it seems to suggest that he is not originally from an English speaking country?

[TricoBren]

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%92%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%82%AF%E3%83%BC%E3%83%87%E3%83%B3%E3%83%9B%E3%83%BC%E3%83%95%EF%BC%9D%E3%82%AB%E3%83%AC%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AE%E3%83%BC

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%92%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E3%83%BB%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A6%E3%82%B9

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%AA%E3%83%92%E3%83%A3%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88

 

I guess we 'amateurs' have no clue.. you should probably go and start changing all those wikipedia articles written by Japanese natives then...

 

as has been said elsewhere, if you have a problem with our work, you are more than welcome to donate your time and effort to help us improve.

 

we tend to use honorifics in some places because there is no english equivalent to put across the right emotion. It's a choice and I feel a perfectly valid one as you are the first person I can recall even mentioning it.

 

I stand corrected! I never knew that "Richard" was romanized differently depending on the person's nationality! How interesting! Thanks for putting me straight!!

I should probably apologize for my first post. The stuff that bugged me is long-time translation peeves that I'll perhaps never get over (my problem, I know) but after a second look,

I noticed that most of those things were mainly evident in the earlier stuff you put out and not so much the recent stuff. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers but looking at my first post

I certainly do come across rather abrasively. Sorry about that.

 

Since I'm here, allow me to explain myself...

The reason I hate seeing honorifics in manga is because, you only ever really see it in fan translated manga. I'm not sure why the majority of other

JPN-ENG translated media, documentation etc never displays this phenomenon and I can't help but feel that it's like a habit of Japano-philes to use them because of a "we know

what it means" mentality. I'm pretty old school when it comes to stuff like this. In English, I have never referred to anybody as kun/chan/sama/dono/shi etc which is why I don't feel it has a place

in localized material. Too often (and I'm NOT saying you guys are doing this!) honorifics are used because the translator is being lazy or is simply not smart enough to convey the meanings into

the target language effectively. Again, I know some people love it but for me personally it just drives me nuts. It's not translation, it's transcription.   

 

The other thing is the romanization of Japanese words and spelling the "u"s. Again, this largely seems to be a phenomenon that the anime/manga fan community has popularized over the past decade.

I know you prefer to call Sho, "Shou" and that is of course entirely your own choice but it really doesn't sit right with me personally whenever i see it. It's like calling the nations capital "Toukyou". it just

looks all kinds of wrong. Incidentally, I went on a trip with friend last year whose family name happens to be æ–Žè—¤ (Saito). When I looked at his passport, the name was printed as SAITO as opposed to

SAITOU so I'm guessing that the Japanese government have no plans to adopt the "u"s anytime soon either. 

 

Basically, I just wanted to say that when it comes to translation, pretty much everybody thinks they're right (just look at my previous Richard post! lol) but I feel that my arguments against these

common fads in western localization of Japanese media should at least provoke an interesting debate. Again apologies for the "amateur" comment but I'm sure you can understand how easily I can get 

my pants in a knot over these things!

Peace!!

[Salkafar]

Interesting Salkafar.  does that suggest that Guyot is German or similar? it seems to suggest that he is not originally from an English speaking country?

 

In my mind, he is French/German, maybe even a product of the German occupation of France. On the other hand, his last name is Guyot, suggesting his father was French. Maybe he's from the Elzas?

 

Trico Bren, while I get it can chafe, how should - for instance - Shizu's relationship to Agito be properly expressed in the way she addresses him? I would personally write 'Master Agito', but even as I type it I feel it's inappropriate.

[TricoBren]

Interesting Salkafar.  does that suggest that Guyot is German or similar? it seems to suggest that he is not originally from an English speaking country?

 

In my mind, he is French/German, maybe even a product of the German occupation of France. On the other hand, his last name is Guyot, suggesting his father was French. Maybe he's from the Elzas?

 

Trico Bren, while I get it can chafe, how should - for instance - Shizu's relationship to Agito be properly expressed in the way she addresses him? I would personally write 'Master Agito', but even as I type it I feel it's inappropriate.

 

In the same way Alfred calls Batman "Master Bruce" it would make sense. She's somewhat of a family servant role so this way of addressing him would be normal right?

My deal with honorifics is that a great deal of the time, they can simply be omitted but in this instance you raise an interesting relationship...

 

The key, in my book, is always ask yourself how would these people address each other if they were British or American. Of course they wouldn't say "Sama" so it's about translating their speech

to reflect the respective tones in which they address their superiors. This of course can be tricky which is why *many* choose to cut corners and just leave "sama" in the text despite

it having no meaning whatsoever in English. 

[Salkafar]

But Agito and Shizu aren't British or American. They're Japanese, and from pretty old-fashioned families at that. Personally I don't mind being reminded occasionally.

[TricoBren]

But Agito and Shizu aren't British or American. They're Japanese, and from pretty old-fashioned families at that. Personally I don't mind being reminded occasionally.

 

Of course. But if you're gonna translate something, I prefer it to be thorough. Not using honorifics doesn't make the characters any less Japanese nor the setting any different. 

Does using honorifcs really make the manga sound more authentic to you? If it does, that's fine, but to me it's irritating. The Viz releases didn't use them either right...? 

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess!

[Salkafar]

But Agito and Shizu aren't British or American. They're Japanese, and from pretty old-fashioned families at that. Personally I don't mind being reminded occasionally.

 

Of course. But if you're gonna translate something, I prefer it to be thorough. Not using honorifics doesn't make the characters any less Japanese nor the setting any different. 

Does using honorifcs really make the manga sound more authentic to you?

 

In a word: yes. It reminds me they are not speaking English, but Japanese. ...Interesting, though. We never get the impression they switch over between languages, even though I doubt that for instance the members of Zeus' Thunderbolt spoke Japanese. Nor, indeed, all of the Zoalords; that the Guyver appeared in Japan was a fluke, a coincidence. It could have happened anywhere. Why would Guyot (French?) or Barcas (Probably Portuguese) be able to speak Japanese?

[*Jess♥]

it's an interesting debate.

sometimes there is politics to consider too. since we don't get paid, we can't really afford to be too choosy, since if one of us upsets another, then it might cause problems in the process. If for example, Durendal chooses to put in an honorific, who am I to tell him it is wrong?  He has made that choice and since he does it for us off his own back, I would personally prefer not to mess with it. When it comes to localisation, I think it's mostly down to the person doing the edit. This is never me, I just act as a control and additional help with QC. sometimes there is so much to get right, I have to choose my battles.

 

I see what you're saying about adding the u in to the names. I agree, Tokyo would look weird spelled like that. I started calling him shou because I felt there is a difference between ショ　and ショウ that should be represented in how we call him. it's a different pronunciation. with Tokyo, we have an English name for that, and is pronounced differently than Japanese. we don't have an English equivalent of Shou, except maybe Shaun..... if I had a Romaji grammar key, I might write it Sho with the line above the o but I don't know how to do that.

[H222G981]

it's an interesting debate.

sometimes there is politics to consider too. since we don't get paid, we can't really afford to be too choosy, since if one of us upsets another, then it might cause problems in the process. If for example, Durendal chooses to put in an honorific, who am I to tell him it is wrong? He has made that choice and since he does it for us off his own back, I would personally prefer not to mess with it. When it comes to localisation, I think it's mostly down to the person doing the edit. This is never me, I just act as a control and additional help with QC. sometimes there is so much to get right, I have to choose my battles.

I see what you're saying about adding the u in to the names. I agree, Tokyo would look weird spelled like that. I started calling him shou because I felt there is a difference between ショ　and ショウ that should be represented in how we call him. it's a different pronunciation. with Tokyo, we have an English name for that, and is pronounced differently than Japanese. we don't have an English equivalent of Shou, except maybe Shaun..... if I had a Romaji grammar key, I might write it Sho with the line above the o but I don't know how to do that.

 

 

I agree. I don't care how its translated. Nothing is ever going to be perfect.

 

So long as I can read it, I don't care.

 

I personally think you and Durendal and the other members of GA have always done good work with the translations. 

 

I am thankful that Yuki and her staff or Guyver Advocacy are nice enough to do that for us fans.

 

Many thanks to you Guyver Advocacy!! 

Edited February 27, 2015 by Jupiter Knight

[durendal]

Here's a funny fact.  We have Japanese visitors and we call them Takashi-san even though we are speaking in English.  Not only for this one guy, but all of our Japanese correspondents, be it business partners or consultants.  I don't want to start anything, just throwing it out there since it's already out in the open.  I guess it's more of a culture thing.

[*Jess♥]

There's been a lot of debate in private with melvin junko, and we've been talking about the name for Apollyon/Apollon.

There was a lot of t- and fro about the different reasons for one over the other, but what it came down to was, the spelling that Takaya sensei used is very common all across the Japanese language. it isn't a special spelling, it is standard and it refers to the mythical figure known in English as Apollyon.

So hopefully there will be no objections from anybody if we start using the name Apollyon from today forwards?

[H222G981]

So hopefully there will be no objections from anybody if we start using the name Apollyon from today forwards?

 

No complaint here. Sounds good to me.