XT & W'kar

[Kamui de' Tempest]

it knows this but a direct threat is not eminent to him. knowing your gonna be shot 5 minutes from now and having the bullet a picometer from piercing your cranium is two totally different things. one's avoidable, the other is almost impossible to avoid without an act of god.

granted he's been in combat for hours now with them, but strategy has prevailed thus far. what happens if they amass the total destructive power of thier armada and point that cannon at him? what then?

also, if a human goes along the natural evolutionary path and reaches another platuea that others haven't reached yet....does that make them less then human? i mean, that was the whole premise of X-Men.

[Spartan Warlord]

if the Armada turned everything on jason unless if could affect hyperspace most likely it would just escape there to heal afta begin near destoryed...personally if jason was really that bovard about saving the Earth then he'd sacrific some of his humanity to do so...the needs pf the many outwieght the needs of the few in this circumstance...plus it would have to be alot think about it...the dna different between us and chimps is like 1% and look at how different we are...so im sure he wouldnt have to undergo a major change...

[Kamui de' Tempest]

i don't think that you would need your dna to change for you to be able to release more of the human potential that's already present in everyone.

[Spartan Warlord]

Hmm well there no other reason why our brains limit themselves to such a small percentage unless it was somtething to do with out dna...

[Kamui de' Tempest]

I stand corrected http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/brain-myth

[exscaped_pyscho]

I read somewhere that it maybe just a matter of not enough 'exercise' for the mind. That a person can learn to process information and react to enviromental circumstances much faster than what they would have done before. Now obviously the artical wasn't refering to the development of psionic abilities but it's oberall theory may apply to Jason.

Lets assume that the matrix is kinda like a giant library waiting inside Jason (They are merged after all) and it's just waiting for him to open the first book. Or rather He's a two year old siting in front of Google's home page, He doesn't know that a entire wealth of information is just a click away.

Now sticking with the metaphore Jason maybe unique in the ability to download massive amounts of this information either in fragments or in whole directly to his hard drive (or brain). With a little help from the matrix Jason could be Google-ing all the information known about the Grakken and their respective technoligical diferences from the regular guyvers.

After all it does pull up various bits of information when ever he requests it. Such as when the first Apothecary was being studied Jason was fed information from the matrix explaining what technoligy was present in her, and this information came from looking at a computer screen and wishing to understand it.

I think this entire strain has become extremley redundent, and moot. Rather Jason will ever access the complete data banks within the Matrix is doubtful since he's 'the adverege Joe become Superhero' and to become a super genious on top of that would be overkill. From a writing point of view, people are more interested in the flash then the light behind it. I was just expressing my personal desire to see Jason use the opertunity in front of him to better himself. Yes, the matrix sends information to him on stradegy and tactics all the time. I just wish he'd be open to a little scientific information every once in awhile. After all he is based off science not magic. His abilities may have applications and uses he's never considered before.

[Kamui de' Tempest]

man, psycho you and I are of like minds. I think that like that I posted earlier maybe talking about what you're saying.

[exscaped_pyscho]

I like the information in that link. I'd never ran across that before. It seems the article I read is in contradition with that link but hey there are always differences in opinions. Just reread this stand and you'll see.

Anyways I think the various personal opinions on this subject could continue until the end of days without reaching any kind of common point of view. Besides I can't even remember what the original point of this strand was. Other than something to do with Xt and Dreadnought. I think that if this subject truly must be continued that it's own thread should be started. However I for one em tired of the endless dibate. So for me this is the end. And I agree to disagree

[Aranor]

I agree it would be nice to see Jason access the wealth of information within the matrix. During times of battle however thoughs of specific knowledge may not be the focus of the mind. Perhaps the thoughts of "How do I kill these damned things!" But then is he is killing them then the thought is contradictory.

As for making him more powerful, since he does not want to become anything other than human, how about making him more human? If the bio boost effects uses the amount of energy the host can stand, such as the amount of strength a human has is based on the amount of muscle, increase his size. I'm not talking make him fifteen feet tall with ten foot wide shoulders but a simple increase in mass. Let's say the bio boost increases strength by a multiple of 50. Average joe lifting 200 lbs, a bit high but anyway, 200 lbs X 50 = 10,000 lbs. Increase his mass by 5% 210 lbs X 50 = 10,500 lbs. The strength and speed alone from that could be deadly. And still leave him no bigger than most humans. Hell, imagine Ondre the Giant with a unit? Or Ronnie Coleman.

[*zeo]

Aranor, Guyvers already boost host to their peak potential. The unit doesn't go by just what the host has when first bonded.

I just wish he'd be open to a little scientific information every once in awhile. After all he is based off science not magic. His abilities may have applications and uses he's never considered before.

Sorry but contrary to what you may believe Jason is as open to science as is humanly possible.

Hell, just to use most of his powers he needs to have some scientific knowledge and open to new concepts that his abilities allows him.

He's just not a super genius who can just take that knowledge and go far beyond what he is already doing.

To access even a fraction of the knowledge that is contained within the Matrix would be like Jack from Stargate SG1 getting the knowledge of the Ancients. He couldn't even access it until his brain was altered.

And just like Jack, eventually Jason's brain would just burn out or the information would be so advance that he would have no idea what it means.

[Aranor]

I know the armor brings the host to its peak performance. But only for its current state. Two people of two different sizes are going to have to different potentials.

Consider it like an engine. To start with it has A for horsepower. Get the pistons bored out and new cylinders and you now have B horsepower due to more fuel/air being combusted.

I know I have read the arguement of a human is a human and their potentials are the same. I would like to think they are not. You and I could be of two different heights, the difference in mass means less energy required for the shorter of us to move meaning a higher potential for stamina yet greater potential for strength in the taller of us.

By allowing the matrix to alter his height or amount of muscle his human form has, keeping him human it should allow for his body to retain more bio energy increasing the output of the armor.

[Spartan Warlord]

I See what your saying...Its just like how the kregan aged W'Kars body to allow for the increase in bio-reserves

[W'Kar]

Yep.

Everyone is going to have a different view on the Character that is Jason. Some may see him as a desperate hero, some an idiot, some may see him as a ravishing and dashing Deus Ex Machina character. It is really up to the reader to decide their own personal feelings about the character.

[*zeo]

I know the armor brings the host to its peak performance. But only for its current state. Two people of two different sizes are going to have to different potentials.

No, not just peak performance but peak potential.

So though they are going to have different amounts of leverage that's about it. The difference in potential is actually negliable.

Reason being peak human potential stops at about the same point for all humans because we are all made of the same stuff.

And human metabolism also peaks at the same level of efficiency regardless of size.

To get any significant change then in overall power then would require drastic changes.

Minor changes simply won't cut it.

Besides Dreadnought is already 12 feet tall and far more dense than any other Guyver except Dark Nova, and she has a singularity in her CM. So what more do you think can be sqeezed in there?

[Crom]

Personally I always preferred the Warrior and Truthful hero types over the desperate. Those who do what they do for honest reasons, be it for revenge, protection, or to test one's skills, or even to fight your enemy( Like XT).

To be honest I've grown disillusioned with Dreadnought, not only for the fact that I believed he is covering his reasons for fighting(revenge) with protecting the human race; but that he continues to think in human terms.

When you receive that much power you must not limit yourself to just one way of thinking, you must reach a higher level of conscience so as to not make mistakes. Men & women with great power & intellect tend to make few mistakes, but they are still great mistakes.[/i][/u]

[Frost]

Maybe he will think about it after he gets free from the invasion.. survival of human race is number one priority after all..

[exscaped_pyscho]

When I wrote my last post I was thinking more along the lines of when the grakken situation was over. And even if the knowledge from the matrix was too much for longterm use he could still access it for a period of time. But the knowledge doesn't really have to be his. He can simple follow the instructions of the matrix. Kinda like what happened when he wished to know what technoligy was in apothecary. He simpley knew just from looking at the computer screen. If the matrix could do it then, then why not all the time.

Overall I don't think Jason is an idiot, I just wish that he would utilize the abilities within his armor a little differently. Smart can almost always beat strong. I said before it doesn't take an army to destroy an army just someone with the knowledge to build a nuke. Jason doesn't need to be as powerful as he is he just needs to build the creator style nuke. (I don't mean an actual bomb, just a powerful weapon). Perhaps something along the lines of the eliminator only designed to destroy Chronos, or more specificly Alkanphel.

[Frost]

I dont think he can create weapons like Eliminator.. as his Matrix is working for the survival of the unit.. sure learn new abilities that is possible.. What say you?

[Juggernought]

He still has yet to realise his full potential.

[McAvoy]

Dreadnought's Matrix that is merged with his control medal is tied up to enhancing his unit. Anything directly linked to that such as enhancing the host or unit, the Matrix can do. Other less advanced powwers such as removing Guyver units or healing other people the Matrix can do.

But creating beings like Elimintor or Warrior Guyvers units is beyond him.

However, Dreadnought does have a spare Matrix that can do that for him.

[Dorian Michaels]

This is a bit off topic from the current stream of thought, and different universe, that is, but I think it fits somewhat...thoughts?

Aranor was the one I believe who said that the Unit G could make the Unit more human by maximizing...hasn't something like that been done already in GWOTG, when the creator of the Sixth W'Kar Reproduction Unit took whatever was left of what had been formerly Sho Fukamachi and made him into the being known as Deus; and I know for a fact that the datafile on him states specifically that the reason Deus has a great margin of power over the other Reproductions, besides his BioControl System, was the fact that he himself had been 'optimized' into a superior physical host; as far as I know, this did not entail anything like Zoaforming-- it developed the homo sapiens model as far as it could go without extremely radical genetic mutation, such as that induced when a 'human' reveals their Zoaform. The datafile never said anything about Deus being like Zagam, that he had had something infused within him to boost him (Lycanlord) as a host to far greater power levels as was normally possible. And unless I missed something, Deus is still for the most part human, but is clearly more than that; normal humans do not have twice the strength of a Mark I Guyver Unit, or have the halved restrictions on how much they require to sleep, eat, rest, etc. And while Sho as Deus does not have a lot of the things that Zagam does, like his HSL, or some of the characteristics imbued by Anubis infusing Zagam with Lycanlord DNA (sonic scream, unlimited stamina); even so, Deus in human form has, as far as physical strength goes, a match to Zagam (barring Zagam taking a drink from someone). Aranor hit the nail on the head when he described what could possibly happen to Jason, due to his not wanting to be anything other than human, and while it was done in an alternate Universe and with someone who had been dead for a LONG time, Fukamachi, it has been done (if not through tinkering beforehand, through the W'Kar Unit itself; unfortunately I can only guess there). It may not have given him such a tremendous boost in power in human form as Lycanlord DNA in Zagam did for him, but, it IS one of the factors that made Deus one of the extremely few beings who could match Zagam in most areas, in addition to the BioControl system (which was a lot of it too, but for reasons of space I'll leave that for some other time). While I don't know if Dreadnought's own Matrix could do for him what that Creator did in remaking Fukamachi, that would increase the base POTENTIAL (Zeo, take note of this, I believe you were the one who broached the point above) for the Unit to multiply by a fixed bit. Deus was reengineered into a humanoid form as a superior host for EXACTLY such a purpose, it would seem. That is why the Guyver Zoalord was as close to a god as could be envisioned pre-Anubis; maximum possible physical potential of a Zoalord multiplied at the EXTREME LEAST 100 fold-- I wouldn't be surprised if the Guyver Zoalord killed by Jason 2,500,000 years ago, actually pushing himself and not screwing around, was 500 times the maximum potential of a Zoalord. Or so it seems

Am I making ANY sense here, or missing the point completely? Comments welcomed, though I sense either McAvoy, W'Kar, or Zeo waiting in the wings to pounce and tear holes in my argument; even I'm reviewing it now and it seems incoherent to me.

[Spartan Warlord]

Basically what your trying to say is jason doesnt have to zoaform at his base to increase his power...just redefine his human DNA as it were to make him into a kind of super human like sho?...

[Dorian Michaels]

Sho becoming Deus was an example of ONE time it was done and had worked; whether the technology of the Warrior Guyver universe could do it is a different matter; the Creators probably could, but would they? I don't think so. Maybe so. But do you see what I mean? The concept is plausible; probable, not really, but a possibility. And yes, Spartan, essentially that is what I mean. Until informed otherwise, Deus was human, but just, as Aranor said, it was essentially a human with hyperdeveloped potential, and that doesn't strike me as being minor changes, which Zeo said would not work. I mean, DO you see any humans running about nowadays who could lift eighty tons straight over their head?

Once more, thoughts?

[W'Kar]

Actually, I agree with you. He very well could go that route. Will he is another matter entirely though.

Two things though:

1. Sho is a genetically superior human because of the genetic rearrangement made by the 6th W'Kar Reproduction. You see all the W'Kar Reproductions bond with the host on a far deeper level, which is why if they are removed the host will most likely die, unless dire measures are taken beforehand to ensure that will not happen. True W'Kar will always die if their units are stripped from them without exception, even the power of twelve matrixes couldn't stop that.

2. Sho is human, but it's a stretch. One of the main qualities that can differentiate a human from another creature is the ability to breed with another human without genetic manipulation. Sho can still. Greg cannot, Anubis cannot, Zagam cannot, even Kenji could not (being dead didn't help either though).

In other words most of Sho's enhancements come from being a W'Kar. The closeness of the bond between unit and host can get slightly blurred with Deus, and near impossible to see for Anubis. So the exact method that Deus has to have the power he does is unavailable to Dreadnought because he is not a W'Kar, or even a Reproduction. Hence why he can only get to 40X. Any higher and the man risks blowing himself up from waaaaay too much power in a human body.

[Dorian Michaels]

Ah! I see. It was the Unit and not the Creator that resurrected the once-human Sho into the barely-human Deus. But still, that is one point of argument that it could happen to Jason-- then again, whether the proper materials exist in his universe...

And, at least we know a way to kill Anubis-- its just getting the @#$%ing thing off him in the first place that's gonna be hell.

And if all the W'Kar Repos can do that...what makes Sho so powerful? I'm not arguing that he shouldn't be (Agito Makishima, may you rot in Hell forever-- no offense to fans of his), but the other's didn't seem to match up to Zagam measure for measure, strength for strength, speed for speed, but as I believe you yourself said before, W'Kar, Deus is the ONLY one of the Repos that could go head-to-head with Zagam and possibly defeat him. Is it the genetic modification's added to the BioControl system added to the W'Kar itself?

And one more question-- what exactly IS the BioControl system, other than a second brain for the armor? It was clear in a lot of areas-- bioenergy management brain that automatically handled supply and focus of his copious bioenergy reserves so Sho didn't have to, etc etc...but what about the rest? Enhance his decision-making skills-- would that be something vaguely similar to what Dreadnought could do when he could Quantum Compute? I doubt if its exactly that way because Deus has no Matrix, but still. And decision making skills-- from the way it was phrased, it actually sounded like the armor was as much a sentient being as the host himself (though no doubt someone has explored that topic and I just haven't read it yet). And it almost seems to function as a sort of CPM when Deus can manipulate levels of energy from one function to another as needed. And even act as a sentient IFF system when it enters SDM, if it does at all.

Thoughts?