Guyver Weapons against DC / Marvel Heroes & Villains

[Toku Warrior]

Yeah, I know I haven't been around in a long time.  But, this is a question that's been bugging me.  Now, due to the difference of laws in different universes, some beings show a potential to withstand the weapons of a Guyver Unit.  So, I want to bring some of my questions up to get some opinions.  If U have a question that you would like answered, feel free to use this thread for it, as long as it relates to the topic at hand.  And I put this in the Science section due to how science might play a role in some of these answers.

 

Question 1

 

In relation to DC Comics, could a Guyver's Megasmasher or even a Giga Smasher vaporize Superman, Supergirl and/or Bizarro?

 

Question 2

 

In relation to Marvel Comics, could a Guyver's weapons do any sort of damage to Wolverine's Adamantium skeleton?

[*V Guyver]

No, the mega smasher wouldn't kill superman, the the Gigasmasher might do so. It would otherwise hurt him seriously, but the guy has survived the inside of the sun and death beams from Darksied. Problem with DC superman is that he is SOOoooo god damn overpowered. Like a dragon ball Z character, just insanely unfair since apparently energy beams are only an annoyance to the S man, and getting thrown through 20 skyscrapers are just something superman can brush off. It's weird! The only thing that could kill superman for certain is the vibroblades or Yui's transdimensional cutting power, provided superman... didn't just dodge with his superspeed. Guyots fake blackhole wouldn't work since superman can just punch out of the fabric of reality. God superman can even outrun a blackhole! There are so many other characters with near superman level powers in both DC and marvel. We've seen superheroes throw planets,smash moons, kill super powered people just by looking at them. This is partly why I hate crossover characters. They always mess up the realities of the in  universe plots devices.

To be fair though, Guyver in DC or marvel would be sup-top tier too, but the writers there would just make something impractical and stupid to let their heroes win. Look at cap, that shield of his would be written to somehow survive the megasmasher. Ironman would just have reflective armor, or a mecharmor to fight gigantic. Batman would just learn of the control metal and destroy it. braniac would merge with the control metal. Juggernaut would not die. Doctor Doom would just make his own control metal. Suddenly Zuggernaught comes back from the dead because Guyver was in the comics, and is now power powerful than the Guyver.... Ugh. I despise comic book writers 50% of the time. 

[Toku Warrior]

Understandable.  And I appreciate Ur answers.  So, in the long run, it actually all just depends on what universe within the DC and Marvel multiverse that the Guyver gets thrown into for certain situations.  Other than that, most of the unit's more powerful weapons wouldn't do much.

[*V Guyver]

Pretty much. It's like the food chain, the bigger brand name the character, the more likely they are to win. By all means, we know that the fantastic four shouldn't stand a chance, but the writers would just make the Guyver just a wuss compared to their regular enemy Dr.Doom. 

[Toku Warrior]

A good point of comparison.

[odin]

To be fair though, Guyver in DC or marvel would be sup-top tier too, but the writers there would just make something impractical and stupid to let their heroes win. Look at cap, that shield of his would be written to somehow survive the megasmasher. Ironman would just have reflective armor, or a mecharmor to fight gigantic. Batman would just learn of the control metal and destroy it. braniac would merge with the control metal. Juggernaut would not die. Doctor Doom would just make his own control metal. Suddenly Zuggernaught comes back from the dead because Guyver was in the comics, and is now power powerful than the Guyver.... Ugh. I despise comic book writers 50% of the time. 

 

Do not agree with some of this, mainstream superman can't punch a whole in reality, to my understanding only Superman Prime (the whinny one) is able to do that. I don't know much about Braniac but I don't believe that he would be able to Merge with the control metal, Batman? even if he could learn about the guyvers weakness he would not be able to touch him, ONE head beam and he is dead, heck one punch is enough. Captain Americas shield would survive the Gigasmasher but not Cap and Iron man would probable be an even Match if he makes an armor to fight a guyver user

 

Dunno about wolverine since it is the strongest metal on earth in that dimension but I would think a HF Blade could do the job very nicely, he does have better reflexes and probably strength so he could faceoff Wolvie fine as for Superman? not a chance, the weakest version of superman is able to withstand a supernova at ground zero and one of them was able to hold a mini black hole in the palm of his hands so anything aside from the Black Hole Cannon would probably prove ineffective.

[*V Guyver]

There's truth to what you said, but consider these things. 

Superboy Prime is essentially Pre-Crisis Superman (He's currently Superman with a power suit in the plot, but that is how DC writers explained it). So yeah, he can punch through realities, at least classic superman can. The current weakened version can't but they've been steadily been giving his powers back to that level over the years. Like it or not, Superman can perform the same feat. Even with this weakened superman, he can still move planets and fly to the sun and back to earth in minutes... very unlikely a Guyver is going to win, even in gigantic. He has some chances if he catches superman unguarded, but Superman also has super speed, the negates any advantage the Guyver could have. God damnit, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the supernova in his hands crap, and he's fast enough to escape black holes. Also, if superman is getting trumped, he could always fly into the, and come back as a full God that can smite the Guyver with only a toothy grin and red eyes.

batman has beaten everyone, I do mean everyone. The rule in DC is that given enough time he can beat any character, and even if not prepared, he's got enough skills hold his own. Don't get me wrong, everyone should be able to kill Batman, but they never do. considering Batman's armament, you don't think he has enough weapons that can potentially destroy the control metal. Even acid? To top it off, he can create Ironman grade Bat Armor to help hold is own. According to DC canon, he can already bench press 600lbs. (freakin stupid if you ask me since the max a human his size should only manage 400-500 lbs at max) While also managing to hold up a 1,000 lbs statue with his shoulders. Get him his bat power suit and well, you got a guy who can punch a Guyver. Of course Against a Gigantic it should be utterly impossible, but he's also beaten god knows how many being capable of fighting the gigantic. I'm going to virtually guarantee a batman death with gigantic, but they've broguht out batman clones out of their ass already to get him to survive somehow. 

Branian, he has hacked everything and doesn't need to actually do so since he can Fight Superman barehanded, he's slightly weaker than superman physically most of the time but can be upgraded, but all his weapons make up for it. And yes, do expect this alien machine to take over other alien technology, that is exactly what Brainiac does. He is the borg of technology since he wipes out planets and improves himself. Doesn't matter how advanced the civilization is, he hijacks it. According to the DC wiki:

"Brainiac has a "12th-level intellect", allowing calculation abilities, enhanced memory and advanced understanding of mechanical engineering, bio-engineering, physics, and other theoretical and applied sciences, as well as extensive knowledge of various alien technologies. Compare this to the population of 20th century Earth as a whole constitutes a 6th-Level intelligence and the population of 31st century Earth as a whole is a 9th-Level intelligence. The character has created devices such as a force field belt^[41] and a shrinking ray capable of reducing cities.^[41] Brainiac's advanced mental powers have shown him capable of possessing others, absorbing information from other beings, transferring his consciousness,^[42] creating and manipulating computer systems, replicating multiple versions of himself, and exerting powers to traverse or control space and time. John Byrne's re-imagining of the character possessed telepathy and telekinesis that were further augmented by an implanted electrode head-piece.

The most recent version of Brainiac (a living Coluan who utilizes android "probes") is connected to his ship in such a way that he can be disabled for a short periods if separated without warning. While inside his ship he is capable of fighting evenly with and overpowering the likes of Superman. He heals from injuries at incredible speed. After being separated from the ship he physically starts to deteriorate and is far less powerful. He is a biological creature that has altered his body to acquire more knowledge to become "better." With his ship, knowledge, and technology, Brainiac has captured thousands of cities and destroyed just as many civilizations. He is considered one of the most powerful villains Superman has faced."

So it's fair to say that since he's stolen technology and digested it, he can do so with the Guyver, even take over Sho's body if need me.Who knows, he might even create a remover from his own ass. 

I agree with you on Ironman. He always has an armor upgrade somewhere, his Hulk Buster armor alone could do some serious damage to the Guyver froms. 

With Captain America, I agree, though, depends on the shield. He's had like 6 different types I think. Problem is if he uses the shield that can reflect energy.

Wolverine, he has weaknesses in his armor, for the most part he can be dismembered because the bones have joints. Happened to him several times already. Also, despite how strong his bones are, the Guyver is cut in an atomic level. I don't think Adamantium works against atomic level cutting. Even without the skeleton, I think Wolverine is likely the easiest to kill out of the big tier. he jumps into fights, and often gets his ass kicked. he's been killed by sentinels already and reduced to only his bone. So, destroying his flesh is not to difficult. Sadly for Wolverine, he can't regenerate the guyver either unless he cut the control metal somehow. If he can get the control metal, he can win.

Ugh, the more I think about it, the more Guyver is screwed unless he has some fans in Marvel comics writing for him. 

Hmm, Magneto vs the Guyver... not gonna end well.

Hulk, yeah, Hulk would be a pretty damn good battle. 

[odin]

Batman has beaten everyone, I do mean everyone. The rule in DC is that given enough time he can beat any character, and even if not prepared, he's got enough skills hold his own. Don't get me wrong, everyone should be able to kill Batman, but they never do. considering Batman's armament, you don't think he has enough weapons that can potentially destroy the control metal. Even acid? To top it off, he can create Ironman grade Bat Armor to help hold is own. According to DC canon, he can already bench press 600lbs. (freakin stupid if you ask me since the max a human his size should only manage 400-500 lbs at max) While also managing to hold up a 1,000 lbs statue with his shoulders. Get him his bat power suit and well, you got a guy who can punch a Guyver. Of course Against a Gigantic it should be utterly impossible, but he's also beaten god knows how many being capable of fighting the gigantic. I'm going to virtually guarantee a batman death with gigantic, but they've broguht out batman clones out of their ass already to get him to survive somehow. 

 

 

I still do not agree V Guyver, yes Batman has managed to beat super powered characters before but he either had help from other metahumans or heroes or just intimidates them through blackmail like what he did with darkside in Superman/Batman comic and movie and Basing on fight results like Predator which he almost died numerous times unprepared AND prepared if he face Agito who does not hold back like Sho (who sho beat holding back to top it off) he would instant kill Batman in his basic form, remember that a Guyver unit has superhuman reflexes that rival those of Spider-Man, a bullet travels in slow motion for him and if by accident he finds his weakness he can just cover it and continue fighting until he hits him with a smasher or one handed pressure cannon, plus a guyver has air superiority and to my understanding you can't blind him nor does he have a blind spot. Taking all of those points in consideration a 1 on 1 fight against a Guyver unit who is not holding back as well takes his distance (Agito) vs Batman?, Batman would lose 9/10 if Batman Prepares and 10/10 without and I'm being generous. He does not have the strength or speed to beat him, most of his gadgets are nonlethal and he would have to be EXTREMELY close to throw a gadget with acid and even still a Guyver can either dodge easily or use a head beam or the Sonic Buster which will decimate anything below the level of a zoalord, the armors I have seen him use are more like Stane Tech level than Stark tech and it will just slow him down giving agito or show to dive underground go on his blind spot and cut him in half. Close combat will be stupid, He will get intercepted long range and sneak attacks wont work a well, it is a one sided fight even in Basic form, a Guyver has been titled "The Ultimate Weapon" for a reason.

 

If you have counter argument I will gladly love to read it, I like debates like these.

 

 

 

With Captain America, I agree, though, depends on the shield. He's had like 6 different types I think. Problem is if he uses the shield that can reflect energy.

 

He has used more than 6 shields but the one I'm talking about is the circular one that is only breakable if you are a god that can use matter or reality manipulation.

 

Hmm, Magneto vs the Guyver... not gonna end well.

 

dunno about this, is a Guyver control Medal susceptible to magnetism? if it doesn't then Magneto can't rip out the Control Medal, it looks like metal but it is possible that it is organic as the rest of unit, it would be a very awesome fight tho. 

 

Hulk, yeah, Hulk would be a pretty damn good battle.

another cool fight although it would have to be against a hulk in his strongest form cause any other form would just get his head chopped off or sent to a black hole for his troubles.

[*Jess♥]

I think when comparing them, it is important to consider what world they are in.

if they are in DC world, the DC characters will win, but in Guyver world, Guyver will win.

so let me suggest that when making these comparisons, bring both characters out of their own world and pit them i the real world.

 

 

 

I'd also like to mention, I saw the man of steel movie and looking at that guy, I think guyver would have a strong chance. But then I don't really understand why that superman is not as strong as what some people have described him as.

[Toku Warrior]

Ryuki is right on this one.  The comparisons, while I like them, should be made as if both characters existed in the same reality, and not worrying about 'what-if's' when it comes to writer's.  Don't play favorites, just stick to basic facts when both are born from the same universe.

[*V Guyver]

Is it messed up that Guyver is my favorite? Even more than Batman and Spiderman? 

Ryuki is right, it would be best to do that, but how is anyone going to strike a balance?

Oh as for the Superman Movie, that entire movie is nothing but plot holes. Enjoy it for the action, and some of the soul searching, but a smart movie it is not. I did enjoy it though. 

[*Chernaudi]

And that's the problem with such comparisons.  Within the canon of one universe, the writer will always find a way for something to (at least in theory) be defeated.  That happens enough within the canon of such stories with it's own characters, like the Guyver Units' control medals and the Zoalords' Zoa-crystals.  If they can be destroyed or irreparably damaged, that Guyver or that Zoalord is toast. 

 

But when such characters are inserted into another universe or canon, especially if they're an enemy to the main heroes, the newcomers will have some way written in for them to be destroyed.  As Ryuki wrote, the best way to deal with this is to take them out of their canons and put them in a neutral world or universe.

 

As a writer, I sort of had to do that when I decided to write a fan fic derived from both the Twilight Saga and Bio-Booster Armor Guyver.  What complicates matters there is that there are some vampires and such that are allied to Guyver characters, and some who aren't.  So how does one side lose and the other side win?  That's the great thing with fan fic, that we can do damn near whatever the hell we jolly well want with it, as long as we have a good explanation for how things work. 

 

However, in something more serious than fan fic, we do have to push these characters out of their universe and into a neutral one that the writer has to make up.  Otherwise, it's just going to be biased eventually to who's side the writer is on.  Of course, it should be pointed out also the big difference between manga and most western comics in terms of writing style.  A lot of the Marvel and DC comics don't really have a clear ending point, where as most manga does, including Guyver, though we don't see where the end is going to come.  It's been in publication for nearly 30 years and there's still no clear end in sight.  We know it's coming, but not when.

[odin]

I for one when doing debates like this I never consider what world they are in cause it would be pointless since the one on their home world would just have a better advantage and the writer would just let the one who he likes more win, I just do the comparison as if each opponent is in a neutral arena with only their skills and abilities and powers to help them and no outside help.

 

I will elaborate just to remove any confusion, lets say Agito and Batman where transported on a battleground as I described and they only have 2 choices 1)They work together and figure a way out and confront whoever is responsible or 2) Go against their nature and fight until one is incapacitated or dead now in those conditions do you guys believe based on who they are alone that Batman could stand any chance against Agito? No, not unless he gets lucky and hits his weak spot which is near impossible considering Batman does not use guns, he does not kill and most importantly he is Human, granted a very strong human but still human who is at his best when he prepares and does strategies against his opponents using any leverage he can to beat them or get them to back off, Batman has beaten many metahumans but like I said most of the time it's with outside help or because the villain is conveniently cocky and taking his time, OR a hero is brainwashed hence limiting his abilities OR is holding back, based on personality Agito has the upper hand greatly cause he is just like batman only he does not hold back and is not afraid to kill and to put things into perspective, he got beaten by SHO who was holding back.

 

Prepared or not there is no realistic way he could beat a Guyver unit without outside help, forget about the writers and universes and look at the characters alone, melee attacks would be useless since a Guyver would not feel it and pressure points are useless and if he gets close he will get a HF blade on his chest for his troubles, gadgets would prove useless cause he has to throw them and a Guyver has proven to shoot a speeding bullet with his head beam and just to be safe he can use the sonic buster to pulverize anything in his path, you can't use sneak attacks on him cause of the sensors and he has no blind-spot oh and he can fly and turn into a Gigantic but that is overkill. I hope you guys can understand what I am trying to say, realistically there is no way that Batman can beat a Guyver Unit even in Basic form. I apologize if at any point in this post I come as rude is just that I seriously don't like vs Battles where Batman is involved cause the writers have made an Illusion around him about beating anybody and anything that he faces, his wins are pure conveniences, his best realistic moments are when he is facing characters from his own rouges gallery being a Detective and not a fighter if he goes into battle with Metahumans he is better off in HQ planning attacks and leading the powerhouses NOT in the front lines.

[Larz Zahn]

The reason that I'm going with on superman's strength in man of steel is what the jorel A.I. Told Clark. he didn't know what clark's limit was, so the only way to find out is to keep pushing until you peak out.

I had a problem with superman struggling with the oil rig until i hears jorel's remark.

He struggled because that was the heaviest thing he held up to that point. So by doing that his strength increased.

Hmm... He's a little bit like a saiyin in that sense.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Larz Zahn

[*V Guyver]

<p>Here we go again, the Goku comparisons. They even have contriversial youtube death battle video about it. XD</p>

[Guyver0]

This has really turned into one heck of a debate.

Well, I agree in taking the Guyver and the other heroes/villains and placing them in a "neutral world" is the best way of going about this. However, I think the problem is that though the Guyver has remained repetitive and hasn't taken colossal leaps and bounds like Superman for example nor has it created Alternate Universes it is easier to dictate his powers and abilities. But in concerns with DC's and Marvel's heroes and villains is that so many people have inserted their own ideas and beliefs that the core idea has been warped to the point of being unrecognized or that there are just multiple versions of that said character.

What I think needs to happen before we continue further is narrow down specifically which version and story arc of Superman, Batman, Iron Man, etc and their usual arsenal like which Captain America's shields is used, that can be agreed upon being the representation of that character respectively. I know that this would be very difficult considering that everyone here has their own views as well (which is fine) and may become an entirely different debate. But to be fair I think the final say for Guyver vs (which version) should go to the one who started the thread; Ryuu-Oh. Sorry for throwing you under bus Ryuu-Oh, but I do think that is fair.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Guyver0

[Mirabilis]

It's good to bring the super heroes powers and abilities to the table and even give examples of how strong they really are but, lets not rule out what the Guyver can do too!

The Guyver always seems to survive every attempt at it's life, in fact it's very affective at defying death and adapting to it's circumstances. Every time when you think it will die, it comes back. Regenerating and even cloning. The power of the Guyver is immense and can we honestly say we know the full extent of it?

1) Guyver can disrupt telepathic commands therefore cannot be controlled by an outside force

2) Guyver has immense healing capabilities and can regenerate any organ and cell as long as one cell remains on the control metal

3) Guyver can clone itself after death as long as it can build on said cells

4) Guyver has super-speed

5) Guyver can defy gravity and fly

6) Guyver can utilize gravity as a mini black hole weapon

7) Guyver can use it's body heat to generate a thermal beam

8) Guyver can use it's H.F. swords and cut through anything

9) Guyver has super strength 100 times that of a normal human

10) Guyver can put out 50 megawatts of power in one side alone of it's mega-smasher

11) Guyver can double that to 100 megawatts of power if using both sides of the mega-smasher

12) Guyver can use it's vibration orbs to detect sound waves and vibrations in the air at a fairly large distance

13) Guyver can absorb sounds in an area and turn them into a powerful shock wave blast

14) Guyver can communicate telepathically to other Guyvers

This is just the Guyver as itself not to mention the Gigantic Armor, as well as the XD.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Mirabilis

[Larz Zahn]

I don't think the Guyver could block telepathic mind control powers. I think it can only stop the creators genetically bred compulsion to obey the creators.

And let's face it, the Guyver is fast, and may have advanced reflexes but its no where near super speed. And is the megasmasher really unique? How many other characters in both marvel and dc can create equal strength beams?

Edited August 30, 2013 by Larz Zahn

[Mirabilis]

 I'm saying the Guyver's no pushover chump. As far as telekinetic commands if it couldn't resist them I'm sure a Zoalord such as Barcus could of taken control of them by now. The Guyver may take a beating but even being blasted by a reflected mega-masher (combined with both Sho's sides and one of Agito's) wasn't enough to get rid of the Guyver completely. Now if you went Gigantic or XD that would really up the scale.

 I don't want you all to think I'm saying the Marvel/DC characters are easy pickings or chumps to the Guyver but don't sell him short either. Speaking of this subject I wonder how Archanfel would fair against Super Man or other crazy power full character.

[*V Guyver]

Alky is pretty tough, and in his prime he'd put up a good fight, but Superman, classic or modern would beat him I think...but then again we haven't seen the full scope of his powers, right? 

Also, I have to point out that Guyver, despite all his prowess has a much bigger glaring weakness than most of the other characters. namely his control medal, granted it's what keeps him going and mega badass, but if it is actually destroyed, and it's a pretty obvious target I must admit. Yes, that's troubling. Other characters have bigger glaring weaknesses too, like being normal human, or weak to kryptonite, but others have little to no weaknesses. 

Now that I think about it, Captain Marvel/Shazam is even more deadly than Superman. If fighting a Guyver universe character. His lightning alone would be dangerous, and his has Superman classic and modern Superman's powers. ...Maybe we should rule out characters that are obviously too powerful or utterly stupid match ups. Just stick to similar characters to Guyver.

Possible list of characters that would probably have a close match with the basic Guyver form. Just add to it. Doesn't have to be comics, movies, manga, anime, and Videogame need apply. 

Darkhawk
Ironman
Steel
The Fantastic Four as a Team
First Generation X-Men as a Team
Cable from Marvel
Nimrod the Future Sentinel from X-Men
Vision from avengers
Blue Beetle - Modern DC
Alex Mercer from Prototype - though maybe it be a better fight if it were against Aptom.
A Single Sentinal - Matrix movie.
Cole - Infamous 
Dante - Devil May Cry
Samus Aran - Metroid
 

[Toku Warrior]

It really all depends on which version of Superman or other characters that you go with.  You must also take into account how far each character is willing to go to win a fight.  Unless it's Darksied or Branica, then Superman will mostly hold back from killing his opponent.

[Super Existence]

Captain Marvels lightening?

He fought Purgstall with the same ability and won.

[*Jess♥]

.......................

13) Guyver can absorb sounds in an area and turn them into a powerful shock wave blast

...................

what is this?

[Larz Zahn]

He could be talking about in the TV series. The episode where Sho fought noskluv and.... I can't remember his name. The sound dampening zoanoids. Sho unblocked their barrier.

[*Jess♥]

hmm, yeah the tv series was a bit screwy wasn't it?

what Noskov and Myumelzee were doing was very sophisticated. one might surmise that guyver could produce a similar damping effect if he really tried to, but not only is it impractical, we've never seen it or any reference to him doing it.  not to mention, a damping effect would in no way absorb sound, merely cancel it out with reverse wavelengths. and in no way does that create a shockwave blast.

what guyver did in that episode was more than likely overloading N and M's senses so that they were unable to block out ambient sounds because it was too much to handle.

so I'm still really confused as to where #13 was conjured from.

of course this all declines to consider the existence of light and guyver's eyes. also guyvers hyper sense that detect electromagnetic fields etc.