chapter Guyver May 2013

[*Jess♥]

I recall suggesting that but somebody else could have said it also.

it would be a bit of a funny turn if we had a gender bender in guyver.

higher chance that she is his sister though. If she was his gilfriend, she would have probably travelled to japan with him.

or... even better. she could be his daughter. he was surely in his 30's wasn't he?

my name is valkyria lisker, you killed my father, prepare to die!

[*Jess♥]

ha ha, I just wondered what wuld happen if we spelled ヴァルキュリア(valkyria) backwards ...

アリュキルァヴ　aryukiravu　( a ryuki love)

but actually I think it would be more like this -

アリキュルヴァ　arikyuruva

[Larz Zahn]

Haha! Princess bride quote! For Guyver! I love it.

A Ryuki love.... Hmm....

[*V Guyver]

Jakudan: A word, my lady. We are but poor, lost circus performers. Is there a village nearby?

Natsuki: There is nothing nearby... Not for miles.

Jakudan Lead Singer: Then there will be no one to hear you scream

[*Chernaudi]

In that chapter I mentioned, Natsuki when Toki asked her if Val was related to Lisker, and she said that it's possible, but at this stage, that would only be speculation.

I don't believe that she's Lisker's daughter, because within the canon of the manga, only like about 2 or so years passed since Lisker met his end. Of course that brings up an off-topic point that probably deserves it's own topic--what is the timeline of Guyver, as in what era does it take place in, considering that only 2 years seemingly have passed within the manga, but we do have to remember that it was first published in 1985, and here we are almost 30 years later and it's still being written and published.

But back on topic, if only about a couple of years has passed within the manga, then it's very doubtful that she's Lisker's daughter, considering that Val looks to be in her mid-late 20s or early 30s herself, and she has been described as being a Chronos inspector who defected from them. She could be a co-worker or Lisker's former love interest, especially if she's not related. Or, there's the possiblitity that she has no relation or ties to Oswald at all, and she got power hungry and pulled an Agito on Chronos. That could also be possible.

Of course, until maybe next chapter, we don't have much to go off of, aside from the fact that Val was originally a character created for the stand-alone OVA Guyver: Out of Control, and she's been canonized in the manga, just like the Hyper Zoanoid Synvite (who appeared in the late '80s Guyver novel and then found himself in the TV series), and Powered Zerebuth, who was created for the TV series.

It's been hinted that she had a very important role in Chronos, however, at least equal in position to what Lisker had (ties in to OOC, of course) if they're so concerned about her airing some of Chornos' dirty laundry. They're certainly more concerned with her doing that than even with Agito or Sho.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*Jess♥]

it's more than 2 years.

there are months between different events, this ius suggested quite strongly at a few different occasions. it would be nice to catalog that though. try and gain a rough idea. I would personally guess that it has been 3-4 years.

if lisker was in his 30s, he could have a daughter around age 14, who would now be a young adult I am sure.

Valkyria is... i don't know she is young that is certain, she is an adult that is certain, but specifics such as in her late 20s? I don't know if you can say that.

remember agito was groomed to be an official at age 18 and this was by genzo makishima who was a MUCH lower rank that lisker.

[*guyverfan]

My own theory here for the long term manga, probably see deeper 2f guyver's past,

and maybe just maybe the union of Aptom and guyver2f,

more of the organization's divicion cronos,

traitors, publicly joining a guyot, sho griselda Aptom and fighting together, and finally giving a war cronos triple or at least is what I think,

final intervention deve apollyon be part of a plan to alkanphel, maybe something like giving more actibo role in the action,

is pure conjecture,

jeez, i don't know if its just me staring at these posts at 4:00am in the morning but without you alky, i wouldn't of been able to figure out where apollon got his idea for his costume. or do i really just need to get some sleep!

Edited April 13, 2013 by guyverfan

[alkanfel009]

I have a theory that just happens to aotom mesclado with guyver for the new form of armor, I think the armor, can be a zzoanoid apollyon as Aptom, a being diceñado alkanphel to serve specifically for armor,

[*Chernaudi]

Quote:  "if lisker was in his 30s, he could have a daughter around age 14, who would now be a young adult I am sure.
Valkyria is... i don't know she is young that is certain, she is an adult that is certain, but specifics such as in her late 20s? I don't know if you can say that."

 

I do still doubt that Val is Lisker's daughter, mostly because she seems to be older than the younger females in Guyver.  We all know that if at the start of the story that if Shizu and Natsuki were 18 and Mizuki was 16 (manga) or 17 (TV series), then if that estimated 3-4 years have passed, they'd all be in the early 20s basically (Shizu and Natsuki would be 21-22, and Mizuki would be 19-21 based on those starting ages), and Val doe seem to look a bit older than that, certainly in her late 20s quite possibly.  Also, I don't believe that one would get promoted to being an inspector at Chronos "overnight"--I'd think that to rise that position one would have to be a remarkable leader and organizer, and be a impeccable investigator of very high order above all else, but even that'd take some time.  No matter how phenomenal one is, it'd take a while for someone to get promoted to that position. 

 

Lisker was about 32 when his malfunctioning Guyver armor and Sho combined to whack him, and while I'd bet that he'd been an inspector at Chronos for a few years, I can't see him reaching that position before his late 20's unless he showed up at Chronos right out of college and impressed the hell out of the management.  Of course, I can see Val as being that good, but I don't see her as being very young, either, certainly at least my age, but probably a couple of years older--she doesn't strike me as being "young" young (early adulthood) like the other girls in Guyver are.

 

But then again, the daughter angle can't be entirely ruled out yet as being possibly possible.  There's one big card that can be played there:  outside of his being a Chronos inspector, we don't know anything really about Lisker's personal life.  Did he have a child, did he have kids, was he married and had a family?  None of this we really know, and since he got killed off so early, he got almost no other character development aside from his being marked as a supervillian incarnate/supervillian in the making, especially if he was allowed to play a bigger role in Chronos' operations against Sho, as in the TV series.  But outside of all of that, nothing else is known about Oswald Lisker as a character.  That is a card that can be played.  And even if Val is younger than I think she is (barely older than Shizu or Natsuki), that opens up Lisker maybe having a family/wife and kids that his job separated him from, and that maybe Val joined up with Chronos out of revenge for her father's death, that's if Val's Lisker's daughter.  As unlikely as I see that being, it can't be rule out, and only Mr, Takaya knows where he would want to go with this.

 

And the knowing so little about Lisker's personal life also leaves all the other possiblities open--Lisker's sister, Lisker's love interest (if he was single and didn't have a family), or just a co-worker who really liked him and is out for revenge. 

 

Either way, Val does seem to really be pulling what Agito did, perhaps on a grander scale.  Agito used Genzo to get him to places within Chronos where he could gather info and use that to stab them in the heart at the right opportunity.  And when one considers that Val's allegedly an inspector, that just multiplies her means and opportunities to do the same.  She obviously knows so much that Chronos wants to stop her before she can do much more damage, especially since she's seemingly alined herself with the Rogue Zoalords who Shin has been going after and keeping tabs on.  About the last thing that Shin wants or needs right now is someone who can damage Chronos and threaten the stability of that organization any further.  And if she's an inspector, she's obviously got some dirty laundry about Chronos that she can air if she wants to to achieve that very end.

[*Jess♥]

I do need to point out that Valkyria is western and so will look different. usually are drawn with more prominent chin and nose. asian females tend to look younger naturally anyhow due to their smooth jawline and complexion.

it would be easy for val to look older yet be younger simply due to hte art style. but that is most certainly down to personal opinion.

I only say so to keep the possibility open for us to ponder about

[*guyverfan]

good theory, but i really think apollons costume looks more metallic than organic.(possibly the same metal that the control metal, navigational spheres from a ship are made out of)

im thinking that the last time we saw imarakami was inside an organic regenaration pod, under ground,under the temple on silha island. the pod was not only regenerating miribilis after his defeat with gigantic but it was also giving him detailed memories of the creators voyage to earth, what they were doing on earth and also the events that occured upto their departure. now, for that pod to be there and functional it would have been part of something larger, im thinking possibly part of another ship which the temple was built upon. and if thats true, possibly another set of spheres!

could he of been able to manupulate this possible ship/spheres and made his new armour from the spheres just as sho had done.

and we've seen with agito that all that was needed were the spheres as he created his gigantic while in an optimization tank.

[*Chernaudi]

I do need to point out that Valkyria is western and so will look different. usually are drawn with more prominent chin and nose. asian females tend to look younger naturally anyhow due to their smooth jawline and complexion.

it would be easy for val to look older yet be younger simply due to hte art style. but that is most certainly down to personal opinion.

I only say so to keep the possibility open for us to ponder about

That's the problem and that's what blows this whole thing open. If she's younger than I think that she is, that opens up everything, on top of her being an inspector before she defected. The big thing here is that Lisker's backstory...there really isn't any, not really. He got killed off very early in the manga and he had no character development. But, what if Takaya-san makes Val his daughter, or a love interest? That would blow the HSQ of Guyver pretty high, considering how long ago, be it in the manga and in real life chronology, that Lisker died. And to blow the HSQ off the scale of Guyver is pretty hard, seeing what we've seen, but Takaya pulls it off every time, and quite convincingly.

And on top of that, there's what Valkyria knows from her time as an inspector. Agito knows a bit about Chronos, but he was only being prepped to being an executive officer of the Japanese Branch to replace his uncle. Since inspectors have at least as much authority and are privy to more in the way of secret info, it does make since that Shin and Baracs sees here as a serious threat. Add to that the fact that she stole a synthetically made Guyver armor unit--obviously a top secret project--that's more cause for concern for Chronos.

But where we're all really up the creek without a paddle is that it seems that we go a few chapters into something and often we get to a cliffhanger and then we shift to someone else's POV and we're left to wonder what's gonna happen next. This has actually happened quite often recently. Mizuki and Tetsuro end up on Shila, there's a house built for them to live in while there, and Alky is asleep in that house, what happens next? Same thing with Sho and Agito and their truce or possible alliance. We haven't gotten much of an explanation of that, aside from a flashback to the Mansion being destroyed and Sho and Agito talking things over afterward when Shizu found Agito at the grave-site. Even though we got some answers, it's not much to go on. I think that the expression that Shizu had on her face sums it up, considering that she seemed to be a bit confused or wondering about something. I can agree with that if that's her assessment--I think that we're still a bit confused and wondering about the details and if Sho and Agito can really become allies again because of their ideological differences. And, on top of that, what info did Sho share with Agito following their battle? Another pretty big cliffhanger.

But for all the complaining that we've in general done about it here--and I'm adding my piece now--there's a reason for it as far as the suspense element. I don't think that if Takaya just layed everything out for us, that Guyver would be as interesting as a story. I mean, the beat'em up aspects of Guyver would not be as interesting if it weren't for the story behind it, and the beat'em up action would def. get pretty stale after a while.

And of course, the wait has been worth it in the past, because things do get explained, and those explanations often add up to one really major event that becomes the basic story arc. This time, it's who is Valkyria, what was her role at Chronos, what may she know, and, possibly, why has she aligned herself with the Rogues. If she's fighting Chronos, why not align with Sho or Agito? It's been hinted that Guyot offered her something, and it was obviously something that Val wanted above an allegiance to Sho or Agito, or going it alone. And then there's the whole deal where in which it seems that Shin is co-operating to a degree with Sho and Aptom against the Rogues and such. How long will that last? Shin's about the only moral and sane person within Chronos who's active, but he does place his allegiance to Chronos above about anything else. Desperate times mean desperate measures?

I think that this will be answered possibly the next chapter when it comes out in the next few weeks and I'll be monitoring the discussion. It there's one thing that all of this does make us do is talk about it

Edited April 14, 2013 by Chernaudi

[alkanfel009]

I would like the following will not be taken as an insult, or as a kind of misinformation to the group in general, accept the many theories bariadas this story, but remember that in the end the suspense and conbinacion of laaccion are the best or parami of this story at least,

 

So here boy with lmi own view of this topic

 

 

1, until the moment I think the only thing that completely related guyver guyver 2 is 2f and armor and be cronos inspectors,

 

2 never to miss a direct statement of the intentions of guyver2f,

 

3, which apparently wants Valkyrie secret is something that is still not known, so it would be best not to try to speculate on because no data eyo sufucientes,

 

4 I think an aspect of family or love relationship between Lisker and val, definiately would not have fruits, as I have understood, in the chronology, guyver, an past two years, if an only past two years since his unit guyver optubo sho , till the time that if I have the correct account,

 

5, I see pocivilidades, for not taking val as a prodigy being very Joben say 15 or 16 years was recruited by Cronos, all cases of children conosen horn 10 or 15 who anterminado all his studies for his intellect, so I would not see anything unusual, embers in their

25 or 28 years of age,

 

6 for me parese Interestingly Apollyon armor may be the remains of the sheath in which Murakami was a very interesting theory siertamnente very plausible,

 

7, and the end, this is something that has given me much tienpo bueltas, but what if what you are looking valkyria cronos not stop, but seeks a way to seize it,,

 

has extensive knowledge of the organization, guyver armor, I think deveria not underestimate, because I think that many treat it as if it were the tiica woman seeking mandatory vengansa or female assistant of the villains, I think you also have said before,

 

 

for me at least in what is pocible within the story may be the assistant Barkas, who precento in Volume 3,

 

pocible horn is because we currently have no idea of ​​anything over it.

[*Jess♥]

Chernaudi... what is an HSQ?

[*Kenji Murakami]

Chernaudi... what is an HSQ?

It's this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HolyShitQuotient

 

Likely from here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/Guyver

[*Chernaudi]

I think that Kenji explained it pretty well with those links--and it's the first time I found that initialism.  In Guyver, that's been used to described everything from the Guyver units themselves, to their abiliities, to Sho overcoming every obstacle thrown in front of him (such as his use of strategy in his battle against Evil Aptom), to Shizu being processed into Griselda and her and the Libertus' combat abilities, to Guyot seemingly being a cockroach to kill off, to the Exceed, and the more recent cliffhangers.  Basically stuff that we don't see coming until it happens or something very phenomenal that seems to happen out of the blue.

 

I wouldn't be surprised of Takaya chooses one of the more shocking possibilities for who Valkyria is, such as being Lisker's daughter, or love interest (if the latter, wouldn't it be a bit shocking if she was Lisker's GF or wife?!), or if she's got ties to someone else within Chronos.  It's entirely possible that Val is just a power hungry person who stole that Guyver unit to fight against Chronos, but Takaya already sort of did that with Agito, so I don't think that he'd re-hash that angle without some major changes.  I think that he'll go for a more shocking, "holy s***!" type of explanation on who Val is.  I can't rule out a more mundane explanation, but I wouldn't bet on a mundane explanation, either.

[alkanfel009]

and thought something so suddenly, we saw all kinds of genetic manipulations in Zoanoid, but I think something more simple to quickly been discarded, cloning, I think cronos could easily produce an army of clones of their most powerful Zoanoids without prosesar nececidad of more human

 

this is just a point of view, personal, take the model, nose, enzyme 3, and thousands of veses barias clones, it may cause a radical change in the balance of power,

 

, And finally I want to ask a general question to all forum members,

 

in volume 24 chapter 151 because I shake not the zoacristal qremobio to boats, when he shot in the back,

 

is a very big question that even Temgo, Aberle could easily ripped the head, and so get a more powerful zoacristal Shisu, or even for use in itself.

[*guyverfan]

i still think val is barcas's sex slave, he doesn't wear anything under his robes youknow!

[*V Guyver]

"i still think val is barcas's sex slave, he doesn't wear anything under his robes youknow!"

ugh, the latter part might gives me nightmares.

Oh and sorry Alkanfel009, not understanding your question.

lol at poor old Liskar. It took roughly 20 years from him to get some back story, and it wasn't even in the manga, instead the anime. And even than, it was pretty sparse, nothing but a rivalry against fellow trainee Zerabubus. 

[*Jess♥]

I thik what alkanfel is saying is:-

how come agito didn't take Barcas's zoacrystal in order to make shizu stronger?

 

 

about cloning....

Cronos is not that clever.  The reason they can make zoanoids, is because they copied the creators research.

in the real world, I believe it is possible to create a human clone. I think in the manga, it may have become possible after x-day. but it depends if cronos allowed those scientist to continue research into cloning or if they moved them onto zoanoid development.

[Larz Zahn]

Question. What about the Mizuki clone? Could she be a cronus bred human then processed into a zoanoid? Our was she a...zoanoid triple changer?.

About Apollyon.

Im wondering if the Apollyon armor is a uranus battle suit. The metal is too unique and i have a problem with someone simply making a suit with nav spheres they found.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Larz Zahn

[Guyver0]

I thik what alkanfel is saying is:-

how come agito didn't take Barcas's zoacrystal in order to make shizu stronger?

Isn't it because all the Zoacrystals are "linked" with one another?  I mean if they took Barcas' they could very easily be found by Chronos or at least that is my assumption. 

 

In terms of Valcuria we have talked about her being Lisker's daughter, girlfriend, or even wife.  There is also a possiblity that she is actually like his sister or family member of some kind?  So who knows maybe she not only is rebelling against Chronos, but maybe she has a vendetta with Sho for killing Lisker?

 

Apollyn's armor however does strongly resemble in terms of texture to the navigational spheres or control metal.  However what looks interesting to me is the sphere placed on the "face" of his helmet to me resembles one of the Creators.  I mean I know this is a very labored hypothesis, but wouldn't it be weird that the sphere is actually a creator that "died" in the ship that was destroyed by Guyver 0, but was then salvaged by either Archenphel or Imakurum and they are somehow controlling it's actions and they provided it with a battle suit or that Archenphel is although asleep he is still using his telepathy to "control" a different body?  Maybe not conciously, but subconciously?  Again I know this is stretching it, but again just another hypthesis to add to the already large migrain.

[alkanfel009]

I thik what alkanfel is saying is:-

how come agito didn't take Barcas's zoacrystal in order to make shizu stronger?

Isn't it because all the Zoacrystals are "linked" with one another?  I mean if they took Barcas' they could very easily be found by Chronos or at least that is my assumption. 

 

In terms of Valcuria we have talked about her being Lisker's daughter, girlfriend, or even wife.  There is also a possiblity that she is actually like his sister or family member of some kind?  So who knows maybe she not only is rebelling against Chronos, but maybe she has a vendetta with Sho for killing Lisker?

 

Apollyn's armor however does strongly resemble in terms of texture to the navigational spheres or control metal.  However what looks interesting to me is the sphere placed on the "face" of his helmet to me resembles one of the Creators.  I mean I know this is a very labored hypothesis, but wouldn't it be weird that the sphere is actually a creator that "died" in the ship that was destroyed by Guyver 0, but was then salvaged by either Archenphel or Imakurum and they are somehow controlling it's actions and they provided it with a battle suit or that Archenphel is although asleep he is still using his telepathy to "control" a different body?  Maybe not conciously, but subconciously?  Again I know this is stretching it, but again just another hypthesis to add to the already large migrain.

 

just want to say that does not seem a bad idea to come to that, it's just that, remember it's not like half of localisaion itself,

 

remember that they could not locate the zoacristal of Kabral kan, or the 3 that were in the relic and stolen by apollyon think very pociblemente, Takaya did not think the pocibilidad,

 

I think after all of optener one zoacristal Guyver 3 would be much more powerful that alkanphel,

[Bio-Boosted Dude]

Question. What about the Mizuki clone? Could she be a cronus bred human then processed into a zoanoid? Our was she a...zoanoid triple changer?.

Gelpess was a shape-shifter, so yeah, it was just another form that he took on.

However what looks interesting to me is the sphere placed on the "face" of his helmet to me resembles one of the Creators. I mean I know this is a very labored hypothesis, but wouldn't it be weird that the sphere is actually a creator that "died" in the ship that was destroyed by Guyver 0, but was then salvaged by either Archenphel or Imakurum and they are somehow controlling it's actions and they provided it with a battle suit or that Archenphel is although asleep he is still using his telepathy to "control" a different body? Maybe not conciously, but subconciously? Again I know this is stretching it, but again just another hypthesis to add to the already large migrain.

I always believed that the representations we had of the Creators were in fact Bio-booster armour control medals. I always thought that when we saw them in book 15 they already had them equipped. this would make sense since it is their "standard armour". That's why I don't think Apollon is the same thing we saw back in book 15.

What Larz mentioned is interesting, perhaps what Apollon is wearing could be Uranus battle armour. But then I also question why they would have such a thing and still try to engineer weapons such as humans when this armour is potentially the strongest thing we have seen in the manga.

[*V Guyver]

Armor is probably only cosmetic, to hide the identity of the user. I doubt it's control metal related, but the alloy, might be something that radiates EMP and blocks telepathic senses, hence the lack of detection by Zoalords and the camera's malfunctioning. Perfect for a Zoalord in covert actions. Than again, those abilities could be the users altogether, since it's known that Zoalords can create energy fields, thus Zoalords probably have some degree of manipulation in blocking those type of observational methods.