Aether

well none of those geeks were me i didnt have the net till about 2003?..im talking about 1993-94, i had no access to anything other than what was in the odd magazine, my comic shop in the nearest city and an asian friend... those times were exciting because any morsal of anime / manga was so cool to find as it came down to rarity and £, all this was before the CN eng dub was shown in the UK, the US publiction explosion of manga titles and before the internet revolution ... i remember arguing in a fist of the north star/ hokuto no ken forum once about ken vs. goku it's like yeah ken is the hardest human ever but he'd get owned by Goku, because sorry about my DB musings its just funny to look back on how it was a part of my life growing up and how things are different with manga now irony a.k.a sod's law ( you do have 'sods law' in cymru right?) like ive said filler never bothered me because mostly i was ignorant to it ... i have got DB in tankubon (not Z though) but i think i read it before i saw the DB anime and so forgot intricacys and didnt compare it as i just enjoyed the anime . i guess theres a fine line of filling that should be tread and in some cases / animes they just go too far as long as they dont do stuff totally off canon like people growing another head or having sex changes or other equally obtuse things i dont really care. well i hope however you decide to watch z/ kai /the continuation of dragonball it lives up to the hype!!

well, i cant blame you for wanting to know about the whole super saiyan thing...i suppose for years youve heard people bangin on about super saiyans!!- or super saiyajins to be precise. i remember there was a time when i didnt even know that ss goku was goku i thought they were 2 different dudes!!! i used to get ahold of DBZ merchandise b4 i'd even seen any of Z i just thought it looked cool, but when i finally got to see the whole story in english and the build up to it, it was even cooler. thinkin of it i'd seen a lot of scenes from dragonball z from trading cards and idol cards n stuff b4 i saw the actual show! i even saw most of the android and cell saga in cantonese way b4 i saw anything in english as i had a chinese friend at school who i used to lend tapes off hmm i think i was a little obsessed with it btw..this is the guide i looked at http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Filler i only skimmed through, however im not sure it would be a great help for missing eps as it tells you about events rather than ep numbers. might be interestng to look at after you've seen it all? DB's on there aswell.

yeah well z or kai its gonna be cool... funny isnt it - a lot of people will like the fact theres no filler or additional substance at the beginning of kai, but it sounds like you would have appreciated it to ease into it all. its a double edge sword because if i remember rightly in Z theres considerable build up to vegeta and nappa arriving, maybe too much, but it might have built the occasion more. i remember the fights more than the events inbetween but that fight was great at the time i first saw it, and Goku vs Vegeta even more so. i think the only words are freakin awesome for that one. the namek saga and other sagas that follows up to the end of the whole planet namek arc are awesome, obviously it's all cool, but i think its the best part of DB in my opinion

hmm interesting... i really havent watched any of kai yet. i didnt realise that they had added new music aswell? seems pointless. just looked and they even changed the balls and ep title music?? shame. yes the music of DB / Z is classic and does really enhance the feeling and atmosphere of it all... ive watched DB in english and japanese + Z in english 2 or 3 times + twice in Japanese and the japanese is infinitley better, in no small part because of the atmosphere that the music gives it. that was one thing that peed me off about the eng dub of Z, the music kind of sucks, which is a shame because to me DB Z was the last semi decent dub of a long TV series that ive seen, the voices fitted the characters to some degree esp. vegeta and piccollo.. the small amount of bleach i saw was atrocious normal american voices and the eng dub Naruto voices are the biggest pile of crap ive heard!!- absolutely no attempt at matching voices to characters . all i can say about filler is that ignorance is bliss..( and in the case of Shippuuden my masochistic method of being 20 eps behind and not reading the manga is still paying off ,im still enjoying it , i am aware of how theres about 1 second of manga in each episode nowadays though???? ) there are instances in Z where its ridiculous but when you have all episodes to hand you can just watch them asap i.e not have to wait weeks on end to get to the next plot progression, and even miss pointless bits out -like the garlic jnr saga. actually you know i just looked at a filler guide for DBZ - again apart from obvious parts like the garlic jnr saga (12 eps) i didnt know what was filler and what wasnt - i never cared- and to be honest i think the niches they put into the anime enhance it a little as there seems to be a lot of minor incidents not present in the manga that help pad the anime out nicely. dont get me wrong though, the beginning of Z is a waste of time but its kind of the calm before the storm and there are somethings between arcs, and certain whack scenes within arcs that slow things up , but i think they are quite obvious in most cases and could be skipped. i still look forward to watching Kai , but like i said before 291 eps of Z , 100 of kai = 191 eps of filler??? really?? anyway i'll shut up!!

cool. so now you understand what all the fuss was about? well you must if it got you hyperventilating ... it will be interesting to hear how you rate the continuation of dragonball / z / kai as it switches gear a bit. if you dont want to suffer waiting dont watch kai too fast, theres still 21 eps left to air!!unless you get DBZ and watch all the fillers- but judging by the last time i looked at the naruto thread you wont be doing that

ive gone for kabral kahn. the dude looked nasty n evil and he levitated for the sake of it!!! + he put up an awesome fight against G1 making Sho manifest the Guyver Exceed

@ lowrider this ones for the dragonball fans:

hey, great stuff thanks! i had no idea about the katakana mistake i got them from a data file i have changed it anyway as it wasnt too hard.. thanks for the pic

i threw this together yesterday as i was sick of what i already had and could find... i could do with a decent anime screen grab of him arriving on the scene b4 he goes all drunken master (yes the same as Ryukis avatar pic) as i could only find the manga one. problem is the dvds i have wont grab properly and ive lent my friend the discs with the episode in question anyway! so ive got to rely on pics from the net and i cant find a dl link for ep 123 and the flv screen grab is horrible from youtube.... if anyone can help it would be cool

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before i continue im not going to reply after this.not because i feel i cant back up what im saying in some way its because i had a discussion with zeo a while back, that would kind of just bring out the same arguement, and i dont have the time or energy to reiterate it. if anyone else feels the need to defend this theory go ahead but i cant be bothered to try and justify my reality to someone else that thinks differently..... other scientists probably dont pick things up because they are bound within the physical and probaly have the same opinion as you, im sure if you searched hard enough you would find experiments that maybe dont describe the universe as a hologram etc., but that defy standard scientific logic. quantum entanglement is a 'fantasy' until it can or cant be proved, and then by the sounds of it, it will render what quantum physicists think now as a fantasty and reduce einstein to a fantacist. again i'll point out... 10-43 before the 'big bang' - another theory - what were we?........

not read any of the above ...im at NS ep 156 narutos just attained sage mode. cool. the new theme songs, i feel, are the poorest so far, their ok but nothing as great as usual anyway i just at the ending joke scene with Naruto and Neiji, where naruto was taking the piss out of Neiji for not being in the show for forever, and Neiji's like -leave off im on missions n stuff, why dont you give me my on show!!! dattebayo

there are many ways to respond to this Salkafar. so i will articulate my reply to that useless inflammatory comment as eloquently and with such sound reasoning, filled with many refrences that validate my points and back up my opinion, as well as you yourself have done above..

we must have something in common as were on the same forum no i didnt know about the hawaians but it doesnt surprise me. i suppose if youve read stuff like that youve heard of Mu/Lemuria and Atlantis theories... places in the pacific and atlantic islands with ancient cultures and knowledge are said to be distant remnants of those very ancient civilizations (inland great civilizations are aswell really). Like i said before we have evolved differntly than these other civilizations, and they quite clearly had knowledge that was beyond and or different to ours now, but however good our science is do we really concieve that the civilization we have now will last for another 3000-5000 years?? it will implode if we are not very very carefull... the Egyptians lasted at least 5000 years and thats only by conventional history counting the new and old kingdoms, some theories put it back to 11000 to 36000 years. point being:how are we going to get to where we're going if we dont know where we came from?? i think the problem with trying to measure and utilize the universe in the fashion we are is that we are trying to be its master and dominate it, the ancients merley understood it and harmonised with it.

i so totally agree. and in actuality some of the harsh scientific realities are just what you said - theories. they are 'best guesses' not cold hard fact. its amusing that some quantum science is just having to conceed to the fact that some mysticism is correct, it might be explained differently but its the same concepts. like you said, we will never truly 'figure things out' or know the absolute truth. Of course we will know more and more of the environment we as humans inhabit and how to manipulate it, but we wont know EVERYTHING about the UNIvesre.

its not ''new age'', its ancient. i love the way people think just because civilizations that are thousands of years old didnt have cars, hd tv's and ipads that they didnt know anything. they understood the universe and how to interact with it on a different level/way than we do now.(some would say better despite lack of modern'scientific' reasoning). since i started posting on here ive said how i dont patcularly like or agree with all quantum physics / physicists for the fact they make stuff up and ignore stuff and that article gives a few examples why. ive heard of this before, as i was reading it i was gonna say have you heard of michael talbots 'holographic universe' book and then his name was at the end. i think at a fundamental level the universe is fractal. Holographic conjures up the idea that its not real but it fits into the theory anyway. the only problem with saying there is no objective reality is that there must be some objective structure other wise wtf? i believe that our collective objective reality is an illusion to what ‘reality’ actually is, but that our individual experience of the universe is subjective and that you can influence the objective reality we are experiencing/stuck in, to a certain degree. just think otherwise we would all be living in our own subjective paradise and no one else would truly exsist....to anyone reading this do i truly exsist? does super exsistence exsist and did he post that link in his post or did my mind create his post??? So that I could write this post.? Etc… this is just more proof that we are all one, brothers and sisters. PEACE

anyway back to other anime i just started yu yu hakusho and im towards the end of Grappler Baki anime (ive been watching this over 2 years and its only 48 eps ) and im looking forward to reading the manga that continues it... so no spoilers please... i like getting into series late that way theres loads of material to get through

Oh dear V Guyver , thats why i deliberatley avoided pointing out that stuff to Ryuki ... anyway there is another comparison aswell i really like DB Z as there are other esoteric things in there aswell you make good points about what youre saying, i dont think anyone really hates anything though, its just that i dont think you can take something away from something because of where it originated from, you can doubt its authenticity or its degree of originality but not the fact that its something new in and of itself thats why i was arguing that to me its not really copying its being inspired by. i think though nowadays somethings do just copy, either through demand created by certain genres or just laziness.

ha ha, yeah well i really do get your point, i did from the begnning, i just personally wouldnt call it plagirism i only wrote what i did because i was feeling argumentative although the whole superman goku thing cant be discounted... i wont give full details because you are only a portion of the way through DB and some of the stuff is later on in Z - anyhow its still minor stuff and not that significant as the whole DB to Naruto thing, but never the less its there. Nick Simmons and the whole Bleach thing ? yes - BLATANT plagirism. That was just bad, he needs to go and take some of those plagirism lessons i was on about!

bah, looks like its agree to disagree time. ................... however im going to throw this last bit of argumentitive banter out there plagirised = copy someone elses work and claim it as your own inspire = stimulate somebody to greater effort enthusiasm or creativity as i highlighted in my post above kishimoto freely admits he was inspired by DB and i say he has made somnething more than DB... i get your point but still.... if i remember rightly Toriyama admits he was inspired by / 'plagirised' Superman in creating Goku/ DB DB beats Superman, Naruto beats DB. as long as its not a poor copy or the building on of an idea is better than / different in some way than the original then i dont think it matters. if its worse then the plagirist really needs to take plagirism lessons. if the end result is cool its all good in my books. agreement settled

kishimoto himself says he specifically wanted his main character to be LIKE goku as he 'represents the archetypal shonen jump hero' that gets readers 'energized' with his 'straightforward way of thinking and mischievious side'... he freely admits he was inspired by DB. i doubt he would say he flat out copied it. perhaps this is all semantics again to me copying would be ero senin being a fragile old man who is eventully far far surpassed in power by his students, reads porno mags all day on an island with a turtle, is lucky not to have been brought up on sexual harrassment charges and enters martial arts tournements under a name as a homage to jackie chan. and to me being inspired by would be ero senin being some kind of a toad demigod,a hard as f*** legendary shinobi, who writes erotic literature and has an eye for the ladies,... there are always going to be archetypes for any character, the new spin and padding out of the character is down to the individual creator and what makes new stuff different and or cool. pointless argumentive post over

i still say Toei screwed us. i dont think theres many DB fans that wouldnt have liked to have seen Kai reanimated anyway.... first off i'll say i LOVE Dragonball. there is no doubting that. but i will say if i had to really make a decision about it i would have to say that Naruto is better. there ive said it. i didnt think i would ever have to but its done now. who cares if Naruto is similar in some kind of way. i said earlier in this thread that to me i see Naruto as a mix of influence from DB and Hokuto no Ken. might not be accurate but thats what i think. if it was a poor carbon copy and was crap maybe it would be worth pointing out. if narutos clothes were green and red would it make the show/ manga any less amazing?? or would Kishimoto have ben copying those colours from Toriyama's tienshinhan?? anyway , they say theres nothing new under the sun. for example.. i have 2 manga ideas in my head, only recently i aquired satan666 and realized that the mangaka had already done a portion of one of my ideas would this stop me from continuing with it? yes and no. although my idea is different to a degree there would always be that - ''oh, thats similar to that in satan666'' hanging in the air. which was through no fault of mine whatsoever. also i think theres inspiration and then theres copying. i wouldnt ever say Naruto copied anything. its unique. and even if it did it made it 100 x better. if there was no inspiration we'd be in a constant state of the same thing... imagine if giant robo stuff hadnt moved on since tetsujin 28, there would be no Gundam, no super sentai robots, no Transformers etc.etc. i do like Durendals point about the recent mangaka's conveying the enjoyment of past generations. i still wouldnt call it copying though. maybe in years to come there will be something that is as awesome as Naruto and we will have Naruto / kishimoto to thank for it...

glad you 'like' dragonball so far Ryuki. it certainly does get even better in my opinion. although i look forward to watching DB Kai when its done, im still not sure wether there was 191 eps of filler, its a big task to condense 291 eps to 100!! im intrigued to see exactly how theyve done it...... a small DB Kai rant : i would have loved to have seen this 100 eps reanimated in the style of the opening credits of db kai- now that would have truly kicked some freakin ass. in my opinion toei was lazy and dissrespectful to the fans, surely they have made trillions of yen over the 25 years of DB?? enough at least to shell out for 100 eps of new anime to give the fans ?

we can blame fanaticism, but like i said if religions didnt exsist people couldnt be fanatical about it. if someone has a pyschological predisosition to fanaticism theres nothing to say it will manifest as religious but the fact that religion is indoctrinated into people will increase the chance of it being religious fanaticism. which is dangerous. that is not free will. religion is powerful and can be used for good or bad... the big 3 like i said are intertwined in world politics and law. these effect everybody. not just a fantaical individual. being fanatical about something other than religion (or world domination)really doesnt matter to a good portion of the world in the grand scheme of things. what defines someone as being religious? is a good question, it really is an ambiguous term... i suppose you could say there are 4 types 1.non practicing - born into but doesnt care 2.religious - believes in that religion but doesnt practice or engage in thought of the faith 3.practicing religious - part of religious community that has faith, recognises and practices beliefs and customs of that religion 4.religious faith - not necessarily part of that religions community but believe in that god and draws some spiritual gain from the faith its hard to say from your examples, the second one is obviously no.1 or 2 ,but the first does not mention wether they believe in the christian or catholic god? - because remember according to the different religions theirs is the true god! i have read portions of the bible apart from the mandatory studies at school , but that is just through my own theological and historical research not for any spiritual gain. to me its just a book attributed to a certain set of beliefs, same as the torah or koran or the rig veda would be. i dont gain anything spiritual from it... if that person does read the book and gets something from it that enriches their spirit and they continually use the book for such reasons then i would say that they are no.4 in my list and are in some way of that religion... i'd say the only way you could practie something of a religion and not be classed as being part of it in some way ,it is something like people who do yoga or work with chakras etc. - they are really practicing a portion of esoteric hinduism but does that make them of the hindu religion? not really i'll say aswell that anyone from the first 3 of my list could very well act idiotic and use religion as an exscuse, but no 4 would not. in this way i would say that no 4 are truly spiritual rather than religious its just that they use that religion as a spiritual crux because they either dont know or wish to know any dfferent or believe its the best form of faith for them. i think ive made it pretty clear what i think, and any more would probably be best off in a seperate topic anyway,as i feel ive hijacked this thread with my view on organised religion enough already!

the big 3 are christianity, judaism and islam. over time they have messed up a vast majority of the world, europe, the middle east, africa, america, india and yes i include the crusades in the pointless wars i mentioned...its funny though that if there were no crusades there would probably be no USA as we know it. no crusades, no templars, no freemasons,who both founded and populated the country aswell as protestants to flee the hold of the catholic church.