Oh, what's this? A Guyver/Twilight comparison?!

[*Chernaudi]

Yes, you read right, but don't dread, I'll try and make sound comparisons, being a follower of both series.

 

I know the differences, and I pointed them out to some degree in a reply I made in my intro topic.  But I noticed plenty of similarities, too.

 

One is angst among the main character/characters.  In Twilight, Bella saw herself as average, though not many people agree with that assessment, and Edward saw himself as a monster, in spite of Bella's attempts to convince him otherwise.  And often, especially early in the manga, Sho sees himself as a monster and wonders if he'll ever be free of his Guyver armor and all the hell that it falling into his hands has caused.  So that's the angst--or some of it--from the main characters.  B&E also have romantic angst due to them worrying about each other, and Sho even had some of his own, with his crush for Mizuki, as she had eyes for Agito until later on in the manga when she found out the truth about Sho and the secret he was hiding.  Of course, both deals ended similarly (well, sort of, the Bio-Booster Armor Guyver manga is still on going), with Bella and Edward getting married, making love and having a daughter who's part vampire, part human, and Bella gets her wish of becoming a vampire.  Meanwhile, we all know that Sho and Mizuki have slept with each other prior to her and Tetsuro's abduction--at least that went right for our hero there, for a while at least.

 

And then there's the "god complex" that some characters have in both stories.  We all know that Chronos is officially in power now, and are reshaping the world to their ideals--including the active encouragement of people volunteering to become Zoanoids.  Of course, we get some commentary on this from Natsuki, who somewhere along the lines is revealed to be a follower of the Christian faith (whether or not she was born into a family of Christians or she converted somewhere along the lines, I don't know, but it's a fact that she's a Christian).  As such, Nats doesn't see eye to eye with that part of Chronos' ideology, as she sees it as crossing the line with them "playing god", and is a big motivator for her helping out Sho and co. as well as her friendship of them.

 

However, if Natsuki is PO'd at Chronos for them "playing god" too much, she'll probably be equally ticked at the Volturi for some of their measures, and she'd probably see a "god complex" there.  In other words, an essentially all powerful group of people trying to shape the world to their views.  The Volturi are a group of Vampires who seized power, and, like Chronos, have shaped "their" world to their ideals.  Granted, unlike Chronos, who had ruling the world as their goal, the Volturi only want to "rule" the vampire world.  But none the less, similar amorality is used by both parties as far as enforcement and trying to take control over something.

 

And speaking of amorality, there's plenty of that in both Guyver and Twilight.  We all know that Barcas has no conscious with scientific matters (he's someone that Natsuki would be extremely pissed at for obvious reasons!), is extremely amoral, and is opportunistic (remember what he did to Sho's father to try and get Guyver I's control medal?), and is one slimy, unscrupulous dude with a streak to match.  Aptom, though he's more or less done a heel face turn (it seems that he's allied with Sho, and at least doesn't have the same urge to kill him, ie, he's mellowed out after Sho helped him avenge Hayami's death), he's still creepy, scary, and amoral (I'd call him affably evil), basically an anti-hero writ large.  Oh, did I mention that he eats people (at least ones who are Zoanoids)?

 

And in the Guyver court, there's Agito, probably the best example of an extreme anti-hero in the Guyver saga.  He's ruthless, aggressive, persistent, power-hungry, manipulative, and will use anyone or anything to try and get what he wants, and will do almost anything to bring Chronos down, basically exhibiting a win at all costs attitude, and nothing else really matters.  And then there's the fact that he'd also like to rebuild Chronos in his image to rule the world.  Again, there's a bit of a "god complex" there.

 

However, there's at least a few characters from the Twilight Saga that I believe would make Agito look like a saint in comparison--which, I know, is hard to do.  There's Jane, who's a sadist and loves to abuse her power (to inflict a mental image of pain into people or vampires) for sadistic enjoyment.  And then there's Caius, who's one can say is a homicidal sadist who likes bloodshed and is obsessed with violence death and being the one who causes it.  He takes pure joy, and if World War III should break out, he'd probably be betting on which side would win.

 

And then there's Aro, who is probably Twilight's equivalent of Agito.  Aro is a definite anti-hero in my view.  At times, he does mean well, but he's amoral, power-hungry, and will do what ever it takes to get what he wants (such as killing his own sister to keep Marcus in the Voltrui because he liked his special ability).  He also tried to use the Renesmee confrontation in Breaking Dawn to force certain Cullen vampires (Bella, Edward, Alice, Carlisle, and maybe Renesmee herself) to join up with the Volturi in exchange for Renesmee's life.  Of course, he failed, and had to give up, much as how Agito had to give up the fight when he confronted Sho.  In both cases, Agito and Aro found themselves out-foxed, and had to give up resistance against their foe, though I have the opinion that Agito wanted to demonstrate to Sho his power, and to discover if Sho had what "it takes" to be the world's savior, due to Agito's questioning of Sho's willpower. 

 

And now, some basic or simple comparisons, that are more mundane than the thematic elements that I've written about so far.  Both have the same items in them (romance and action/adventure) as far as genre, but they're used differently as far as which takes the lead.  Guyver is mostly about action and adventure.  The fights, the creatures, the arms race between Chronos and the Guyver unit users, that's the main thing.  However, there's romance in Guyver, too.  Sho and Mizuki are the standard bearers as far as that goes, as well all know, and that's the main romance deal in Bio-Booster Armor Guyver.  Of course, there's also Shizu and Agito, though that does seem unbalanced--Shizu is a devoted lover of Agito, while it seems that even though he returns the affection at times, he views her more as a friend and ally, and their relationship just seems more platonic than Sho's and Mizuki's does.  Shizu and Agito do sort of behave like a BF/GF or husband/wife couple, but they just don't seem as intimate, though Shizu might obviously prefer it that way, since in theory she's supposed to die within 1-3 years of her initial processing into Griselda.  Meaning, that unless something major happens, she basically only has about a couple of years to live, so I think that she'd like to go out happy.  And as far as Natsuki goes, and suggestions that she has a thing for either Tetsuro or Aptom, here, I'd say that she's more than friends with both of them, but she's probably not ready for a steady relationship with either one.  In other words, she has something more than simple friendship with them, but nothing that's quite ready to become romantic, yet.

 

Twilight is all about romance, with Bella and Edward, and the other couples (Esme and Carlisle, Rosalie and Emmett, Alice and Jasper, etc.), but it does have fights and action (which is played up in the films for sure), and there's the final battle between the Cullens and the Volturi, which didn't amount to much, but it was a tension filled event.  I do like how it tried to demonstrate resolving a conflict without the use of violence or force (Sho and his friends would advocate that for sure!), but even die hard fans of Twilight admitted that they wanted a fight.  But as with the confrontation between Sho and Agito, the Volturi realized that they were screwed, so they gave up before they risked getting massacred.  As when Agito realized that Sho was in some ways superior to him and it was better not to challenge that, Aro realized the same in his plight.

 

And then there's the tomboy vs girly girl aspect, which is a favorite of mine.  Bella is an adamant tomboy in the saga, though she's considered by others to be quite atractive, while in Guyver, Natsuki is a nerd, a tomboy, and also comes off as being quite attractive.  As far as the girly girl stuff, Mizuki is def. a girl, but Shizu does take being a girly girl a lot further.  Alice and Rosalie and Esme are the main girly girls in Twilight, especially Alice.  And in Guyver, as far as protagonist go, Shizu is the obvious action girl, while Alice is the action girl in Twilight.  Of course, Shizu and Alice also have in common that they dress and often act the most overtly femininely of their respective stories' characters, but they are also very level headed most of the time, aren't very shreiky as far as girls go, and are the female fighters in their respective stories.  Of course, Bella also becomes an action girl after she becomes a vampire, and she starts to act more "conventionally" femininely. 

 

So here's what I've covered--self-loathing heroes how realize their purpose once they fall in love with someone, the god complex that the antagonists have, the amorality of the stories' villians and anti-heroes, the action/adventure and romance elements (though played up differently in both stories), and the tomboy/girly girl comparisons.  I'm sure that I'm missing a lot of stuff, but I just wanted to hit the basics.  I'm not trying to spam or anything, just thinking about stuff that not many have probably ever thought about.  I had to dig for some of these similarities, but I do find it interesting.  Sometimes, it just seems that the biggest difference is demographics, namely the gender demographic.  Guyver is aimed at teenage/YA boys (Guyver is considered a shonen manga--target demographic is roughly between the ages of 10-21, though I believe that Guyver is aimed definitely at the teen/YA male audience), while Twilight is aimed at teenage/YA girls.  Same basic age demographic, but different genders.

 

That's the thing that interested me, and the fact that that it's seen as being taboo to be a male Twilight fan, just as how girls who like certain things (like Guyver and other things men like) are seen as being strange as well.  IMO, it's nothing to be ashamed of.  Twilight has it's male fans, Guyver has it's female fans, and that's just variety, and why when one stereotypes people with stuff like this, it just leads to dead ends, and there are always "exceptions to the rules" there.

 

So I just wanted to share some of my comparisons between elements of Guyver and Twilight, and the "gender gaps" within the fandoms, and how when people stereotype fans of something like Twilight or Guyver to be just one group of people, a great disservice is being done to the fandoms as a whole.

 

 

[durendal]

I've read all four of the twilight books even before it was made into a movie.  I have to admit that there were instances that I can't put the book down.  I hated book 2, and I hated Bella in it and I saw her as a skanky two timer.  It's a good thing that book 3 and 4 managed to get things interesting again.  Now, for the movie.  I hated it.  I hated Kristen Stewart and I hated Robert Patinson.  In the book, I was actually team Edward, but in the movie, I immediately turned to Team Jacob.  Twilight getting the Razzie award is well deserved.  The acting of Kristen and Robert was awful and didn't do justice to the book.  Taylor Lautner actually did a decent job portraying Jacob.

 

Yeah, you could say that I'm one of those haters of Twilight, but I hated the movie but loved the book.

 

Now that's out of the way, it's interesting how you compare twilight to guyver.  I have to say that guyver, despite having some emotional elements, is not the main focus as compared in twilight.  Sure, there may be some similar elements and characteristics, but I think these has something how I perceive as stereotypical.

[LordSpleach]

And then there's the "god complex" that some characters have in both stories.  We all know that Chronos is officially in power now, and are reshaping the world to their ideals--including the active encouragement of people volunteering to become Zoanoids.  Of course, we get some commentary on this from Natsuki, who somewhere along the lines is revealed to be a follower of the Christian faith (whether or not she was born into a family of Christians or she converted somewhere along the lines, I don't know, but it's a fact that she's a Christian).  As such, Nats doesn't see eye to eye with that part of Chronos' ideology, as she sees it as crossing the line with them "playing god", and is a big motivator for her helping out Sho and co. as well as her friendship of them.

 

However, if Natsuki is PO'd at Chronos for them "playing god" too much, she'll probably be equally ticked at the Volturi for some of their measures, and she'd probably see a "god complex" there.  In other words, an essentially all powerful group of people trying to shape the world to their views.  The Volturi are a group of Vampires who seized power, and, like Chronos, have shaped "their" world to their ideals.  Granted, unlike Chronos, who had ruling the world as their goal, the Volturi only want to "rule" the vampire world.  But none the less, similar amorality is used by both parties as far as enforcement and trying to take control over something.

That's quite an assumption there. It's never been stated if she's religious at all. In fact, if she was/is, it would be more likely that she is Shintoist or Buddhist.

 

The term 'playing God' is very broad in the fact that many religions have had stories about man trying to match the God(s), and failing horribly for it. So the fact is, hating someone for have a God-complex is not a strictly Christian view point.

[*Chernaudi]

You do have to remember that I'm not a follower of the Guyver manga itself as it's not been published in America for years--I've had to cheat to keep up, looking at stuff like the Guyver Wiki, the Japan Legend Wiki, and the forum here for info.  It's stated at least at the Guyver wiki that Natsuki is a Christian (and is also referred to at the Japan Legend Guyver wiki page), though they don't state where that info was obtained (I also did a quick look on this forum and didn't turn up anything of note there, but I do remember reading it here too, possibly before the forum was updated to it's current status, and that was a while ago). 

 

It's been referenced, but those are the only two places I've seen a reference to Natsuki's faith (I even Googled "Natsuki Taga Christian", and those were the only two relevant results I got--Guyver wiki and Japan Legend Guyver wiki section).  If someone can point out a passage in the manga that refers to Natsuki being a Christian (or not, I'd like clarification either way), that would be most hopeful.  I'm not 100% willing to put my faith on something like that on a character's wiki page profile, but that assumption/theory/info had to come from somewhere, and that's about the only sources I have.

 

As far as thematic elements, they are played up differently for sure as far as focus, but they're none the less important in both stories.  Sho and Edward had issues with seeing themselves as monsters, but their romantic partners soon helped convince them that they had something to fight for.  With Sho, that feeling becomes much bigger over time (beyond Mizuki and his friends, and extending to the whole human race), but the steering forces, at least initially, were the same. 

 

However, I'll head back to the similar themes played differently deal.  Guyver is mostly action/adventure and sci-fi, with romance and other items (character angst to name one) as important subplots.  That stuff is important for character development, but they are still subplots and not the "main event".

 

In Twilight, it's romance and fantasy front and center, with the action and adventure aspects and character angst as major subplots.  Again, for character and story development, that stuff's still important, but it's not the main thing that the story's about.

 

And Guyver is biased more towards the action/adventure and sci fi fans and the male demographic, while Twilight is angled more towards females and lovers of romance novels.  The only thing that the demographics have in common is a roughly similar age demographic of the teenager/young adult crowd, though with different genders.  But I also find it a bit narrow minded to say that either Twilight or Guyver appeal only to their main demographic targets.  I know that men like Twilight, women like Guyver, and both appeal to people of all ages.  A target demographic is just that, a target demographic:  the primary audience that a work is intended to appeal to, but that doesn't mean that it's the only group of people who something appeals to.

 

There are similarities in various works that are worked differently for different effects, which is the cool thing about fiction.  A work's creator can make it out to whatever they want it to be.  But maybe I'm over-analyzing this, because I think that Twilight and Guyver are cool for both different and similar reasons to me.  BTW, Twilight does have a good basis for an action fan fic, and when Guyver backs off on the action, it immensely helps with character and plot development, even if at times the canonical story of how the human race began seems to get repeated a lot.  But both stories are pretty cool to me, and they have their similarities IMO, and how those elements get played up  and how they're used is also interesting, and they help to make both stories interesting.

[LordSpleach]

http://japan-legend.com/wiki/index.php?title=Taga_Natsuki

 

The staff here keep the wiki pretty up to date. Plus, I've never seen Natsuki's religious belief stated at all. The only possible reference that can be referred to Christianity has been the mystery character of Apollon. But that when the Advocacy translated it to Apollyon (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollyon). Though with the current spelling that is used it refers to the Greek God of Apollo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo).

 

That makes more sense since Greco/Roman Mythology has clearly been reference in the past. The Creators have been refer to as Uranus(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_%28mythology%29), Archanfel's organization is named Chronos(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronus), and Agito/Guyver III has reffered to himself as Zeus(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus).

 

I know this is a tangent of the current subject, but it bothered me that it seems you assumed that a person not liking someone for having a god complex is automatically a Christian. For me, that's the same as someone assuming you're amoral because you are raised Christian. Though, I'm sure you mean no harm, it just irks me that way.

 

Now I see the Guyver wiki has that listed, but Japan-Legend's wiki doesn't. I personally either look things up through the manga or Japan-Legend. I never look at other fan wikis because usually they just copy and paste what Guyver Advocacy posts. I just did a quick skim of Vol. 9 and saw nothing, so I'll have to check other volumes. If this is true, can someone post it so we can clear this up.

 

End rant.

 

Now on the actual topic. I'm very much anti-sparkles but I find no faults with your comparisons.

[*Chernaudi]

The "god complex" here is when one tries to be all powerful and tries to use their power or abilities to "play god", be it messing with nature/science unjustly, or trying to be the all commanding, all conquering ruler.  I believe, since it's not clearly stated elsewhere, that's where the theories/statements of Natsuki being a Christian came from, is her objections to what Chronos is doing.  Though as you've pointed out, aside from Japan Legend's old profile of her and Guyver Wiki's profile of her, there seems to be no solid proof of her religious beliefs, but Chronos seems to be definitely offending Natsuki's ethical/moral beliefs for sure and her own stances of what is right/wrong and excessive vs justifiable.  That's what I meant by the god complex.

 

I'd like to debate more, but F1 practice is about to come on, I still have dinner to make, and a few things to tidy up.  But don't worry, I won't let the subject die, and I've even written a fan fic about it.  If I survive Saturday's motorsports marathon of the 12 Hours of Sebring and the F1 Australian GP, I'll post some stuff about it there, and the fan fic's actually at a very advanced early stage.

[LordSpleach]

My point is being against someone with a god complex is not purely Christian idea. Most cultures/religions/idealogies are against this.

 

Additional: I know what God complex means.

Edited March 15, 2013 by LordSpleach

[*Chernaudi]

I'm not saying that it's unique to Christianity. Even those who aren't religious have their standards for "playing god". I'm not particularity religious, but I have my things that I morally object to. All one has to do is have a set of values, and any thing that extremely offends those values and beliefs will offend that person based on that.

Irregardless, within the context of Guyver, Natsuki is very offended by what Chronos is up to and their motives, irregardless of her religious virtues. Her own moral and ethical values and beliefs are totally counter to what a lot of stuff that Chronos has done. And, to be honest, most Guyver fans seem to be offended by what Chronos does, or at least what some of their personnel have done, or the way that they've gone about things that seem to be benefiting the world.

But then again, just like how in the Twilight Saga some see the Volturi as a necessary evil, some see Chronos in a similar light, too.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*Kenji Murakami]

Minor nitpick: Irregardless is not a word; never has been, never will be. It's a negation of the word regardless, and hence means the opposite of what you probably thought it does.

[*Chernaudi]

And another thing has come to mind, and that's myths and legends and how they were used in both Guyver and Twilight to cover things up and to keep a secret. In Twilight, the Volturi perpetuated a lot of the commonly accepted vampire myths to keep vampires a secret and to get humans to believe that they had a fighting chance in a fight against them. However, they didn't perpetuate a few myths in an effort to recruit human volunteers to their cause.

With Chronos, they used myths such as vampires, werewolves, and other mythic creatures as a cover to explain away what Zoanoids were, at least until the 20th century, when such things--as well as space aliens and similar creatures--were brushed off as folklore. That provided a convenient cover for their operations until they went public and took over the world. Afterwords, the revealed what Zoanoids and Hyper Zoanoids were, and tried to sell to people that becoming one would lead to major benefits, which, like with the Volturi not letting all the original vampire "truths" die, was done to recruit volunteers for processing.

That's also what probably has upset Natsuki about Chronos, that the effectively brainwashed much of the world's population with propaganda, much like the Nazis and Soviets did. Again, she quesitons the ethics and morals of such moves. I know that she's a major sci-fi fan, but I also wonder of Natsuki is also a history fanatic, too? I don't think that she's a huge history buff, but even if it's just her morals and ethics that are offended, that's enough for her to be against Chronos' ideology, with our without the historical perspective.

That's one of the things that I think makes Natsuki pretty cool in my POV. She's only human, but she's been a huge help to Sho, his friends, and Aptom, and she's a major nerd it seems, but she's also the attractive girl next door. I know that TV Tropes does describe her as a tomboy (at least in part due to what I said), but I don't think that she is to as large a degree as they make out--she does seem pretty feminine in her own right, just really peppy, chic and modern. But then again, TV Tropes portrays Shizu as a tomboy in girly girl clothing (I don't think that being an action girl automatically makes a girl a tomboy, and TV Tropes is like Wikipedia in that almost anyone can post what they want, which is why so much stuff ends up a "Your Mileage May Very" or "Wild Mass Guess" items when actual Guyver experts challenge those items).

But now that I've gone there, in Twilight, Bella is a tomboy, but she's still feminine when she wants to be and still has several traditional feminine traits (long hair, body build, etc), while Alice is a girly girl and an action girl, Rosalie is in the same boat pretty much, and Bella becomes an action girl in the second half of BD after she becomes a vampire.

Again, there are some similarities, but how they're played/used by the stories' respective authors is different, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot different, but even if scant, some similarities do jump out.

Minor edit/added item: I think I know now where the assumption that Natsuki is a Christian came from. I know that there's some fan art with Natsuki wearing crucifix/cross-shaped pendants on a necklace or earrings, but I faintly remember seeing what appeared to be art work from the manga with Natsuki wearing a cross pendant. I can't remember where I saw it, because it was a quite a while ago.

It doesn't help that this came to me as a random thought when I was about out of it from watching the 12 Hours of Sebring and the F1 Australian GP last night. However, I do have memory of it. The image I remember was her with Aptom, so judging by that and the Guyver manga time line, it'd be around book 12 if what I remember is correct--but you have to remember, this is just what I remember, and hence, I could be wrong, since I remember that this was done on a random search for Guyver images, and my search on Google really didn't turn up much. Has anyone read the books or chapters that came after the end of Volume 10 (the appearance of Guyver Gigantic)? I could be way off, but I do remember seeing an image of Natsuki wearing a crucifix necklace that either was an image from the manga, or really good fan art done in the style of the manga.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Chernaudi

[Larz Zahn]

What made you focus on natzuki so much? She was a very small bit player with practically no "air time" until post xday. Andeven then she stayed in the back ground 90%, well... 80% of the time. More in the latter volume but not really enough to get a good sense of her beliefs. Im kinda confused on whet she got all super offended and such. I always seen her as playing "catch up" so she doesnt really know the full, heh, dark side of chronus yet.

[*Chernaudi]

It's been hinted that she strongly disagrees with how Chronos has done things and has seemingly brainwashed a majority of Earth's inhabitants, though I don't know about where the assumption came from aside from the fact that she seems to firmly ally herself with Sho and co, whether or not she's just doing what a friend would do or if she's dead set against a lot of what Chronos has done or both, I can't ascertain aside from what I've read and asked about her. And the fact that it's been stated elsewhere that she's a Christian is a bit odd, though, aside from my thoughts on where I may've seen a visual reference to it, there doesn't seem to be much to back things up.

That, and, as with Shizu, I think that she's cute/attractive, in addition, she's very smart and peppy, and above all else, trying to help her friends/allies the best that she can. She's also a good comic relieve device, while Shizu is a lot more serious most of the time. And even though Natsuki and Shizu are more secondary characters, I kinda find things about them to be extremely cool. Twilight has characters that are kinda secondary that are cool and sort of deserve their own "day in the sun". Also, I do find it strange why Chronos never seems to go after her or see her as being of some importance. That was brought up in a discussion of a recent chapter on here why Chronos and Sho's and Aptom's other enemies never seem to hold her in any importance and don't seem to care about her as one who's actively aiding them.

You have to remember that I've tried to cheat as little as possible by not reading the scanilized manga posted elsewhere, but I've looked here and elsewhere for info. Of course, that's the issue with the Guyver and Japan Legend wiki. And also, this forum doesn't go back much further than 2010/2009 since it was updated, so the old posts are sort of gone.

So I'm sort of hung up on the statement of Natsuki being a Christian, but there seems to be little proof to back it up. That's what I'm a bit hung up on: we have a statement, but no proof, or no (as yet at least) defined origin of such a statement. Ironically, that's a strength of Guyver as a story, that there's so few plot holes because everything has an explanation, even if we have to wait for it because of the rate that the manga gets published.

In Twilight, there are several significant plot holes, which is why fans write fan fic to gain closure on their unanswered questions.

Maybe a mod should maybe put the "is Natsuki a Christian?" question up somewhere else? After all, it's my fault for causing this thread to go down that tangent. Of course, if there was something that could answer that (or at least the origins of that thought), that could end it, too. But I haven't found anything that's hard evidence as far as that goes aside from the fact that whoever wrote the Guyver wiki and the old Japan Legend Guyver profiles ( http://www.japan-legend.com/wiki/index.php?title=Guyver_character_profiles ) felt that it needed to be included on those pages. I'm just trying to figure out where that assumption about her may've came from, and I think it may've been something from book 11 or 12 (Post-Guyver Gigantic arrival) that some feel implied that about Natsuki, but, knowing what I do know about her as a character, I don't think that Takaya would have her come straight out and say "I'm a Christian".

Of course, the old Japan Legends piece on Natsuki also states that she may have a thing for Aptom that goes beyond friendship, and that's something that's inconclusive, so maybe we should take such comments with a grain of salt until/unless someone can point at "this page" in the manga that might give us something.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*guyverfan]

WHAT! Mizuki and sho slept together. When did this happen?

You mean Mizuki isn't a virgin anymore? she seemed like a good,kind, wholesome type girl i could take home to meet mum.

now she's just going to turn into a bitch like bella.

What is this turning into? Guyver comics will soon have an x rating.

Edited March 19, 2013 by guyverfan

[LordSpleach]

now she's just going to turn into a bitch like bella.

 

Woah!

 

Woah.

 

Woah.

 

woah. woah. woah.

 

She maybe a girly girl, but she is a faithful, emotive, and supportive person.

 

But in Bella's mind that could be the equivalent of

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXRuoSHI6eQ'>

 

P.S: Sorry for the language but I had to post that. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ! Ryuki, take out the vid if necessary.

[*Chernaudi]

My point exactly with Mizuki. A lot of us know that (it's at least inferred) Mizuki and Sho slept with each other at the beginning of Volume 26--there was a discussion here about that chapter and even TV Tropes talks about it a bit. Just because she's not a virgin anymore, doesn't mean a thing, and after the hell they've gone though, they deserve such a moment IMO.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*Kenji Murakami]

I really can't take any kind of comparison between these particular franchises; really, if you're going to compare Guyver to anything, the best comparisons would either be to Animorphs, or to Assassin's Creed. Heck, Assassin's Creed already has the ancient conspiracy and secretive shadow-war - the Templars and their war with the Assassins - and Animorphs has the mind-control by outside forces - in their case, the Yeerks.

 

Really, I don't see why you even thought to compare them in the first place.

[*Chernaudi]

I just compared them for fun, mostly.  Twilight and Guyver are the only two fictional things that have really stuck with me as far as stuff that's entirely fictional (as opposed to the Medal of Honor or Call of Duty World War II VGs, which are fictionalized stories based on actual events from WWII).  That, and Twilight vampires are "scarier" than Dracula once you take into account all the things that can kill a Dracula type vampire--they might not be scarier, but they'd be harder to kill.  Dracula would be like tissue paper to a Guyver.

 

And, I hope that this answers (or at least points to an answer for) the "is Natsuki a Christian" question.  I took advantage of a tip that Ryuki gave me and used the Guyver manga tab on the lower left corner of the forum pages.  So here we go:  Volume 11, Chapter 66, page 20, there's Natsuki standing next to Aptom after he and Hayami found her and asked her to lead them back to Sho and co. at Nats' apartment.  Notice what Natsuki is wearing:  A crucifix necklace.  I'm not 100% sure if that's an answer as to whether or not Natsuki is a Christian or not as far is it being definitive, but that's probably where that claim came from.

[alkanfel009]

I think this is something forced not believe it, after all, if you like something and looking much as you can find some small similarities to grow as siguas with that mindset,

 

 

Spiderman example everyone can understand small similarities with the protagonist of The Guyver,

 

or batman and shake or even more in the field of manga murakami kamenriders the protagonist,

 

well that's what I think at least,

 

look baoh the zoalord

[LordSpleach]

I just compared them for fun, mostly.  Twilight and Guyver are the only two fictional things that have really stuck with me as far as stuff that's entirely fictional (as opposed to the Medal of Honor or Call of Duty World War II VGs, which are fictionalized stories based on actual events from WWII).  That, and Twilight vampires are "scarier" than Dracula once you take into account all the things that can kill a Dracula type vampire--they might not be scarier, but they'd be harder to kill.  Dracula would be like tissue paper to a Guyver.

 

And, I hope that this answers (or at least points to an answer for) the "is Natsuki a Christian" question.  I took advantage of a tip that Ryuki gave me and used the Guyver manga tab on the lower left corner of the forum pages.  So here we go:  Volume 11, Chapter 66, page 20, there's Natsuki standing next to Aptom after he and Hayami found her and asked her to lead them back to Sho and co. at Nats' apartment.  Notice what Natsuki is wearing:  A crucifix necklace.  I'm not 100% sure if that's an answer as to whether or not Natsuki is a Christian or not as far is it being definitive, but that's probably where that claim came from.

That's still a pretty big jump to say she's Christian. I've see non-Christians were a cross cause sentimental value.

[*Kenji Murakami]

Or else because they just think it looks cool; Christianity's not very mainstream in Japan, if you didn't know.

[*Chernaudi]

I know that it's not mainstream over there, but that page in the manga is probably where the claim that Natsuki might be a Christian came from.  There's a chance that she is, but unless she or Takaya stated it somewhere, it's not an absolute.  I believe that it holds some value to her, be it religious or simply some sentimental value, but it's not an absolute.  However, I can understand how it may've caused that assumption about her.  Natsuki doesn't seem to be wearing her religion on her sleeve anyways, so whatever she may or may not believe in, unless she stated it in the manga or Takaya-san mentioned it somewhere, we don't have 100% proof of anything really.  I believe that it's possible that Natsuki might be a Christian, but as I even posted earlier, it's not a 100% absolute piece of definitive proof.  However, that's probably the origin of those thoughts and theories about Natsuki, though.

[*Jess♥]

hey guys, I'm really sorry, there is no way i can read all the writing in this thread. it's too much for me but I did skip over it and saw that there was some doubt over Natsuki's beliefs.

I need to point out that her belief is made apparent due to the fact she wears a crucifix.

This is shown in book 11, chapter 66. I'm not sure if she wears it at any other point.

[*Chernaudi]

I tried to point that out, actually (my comments about "Volume 11, Chapter 66, Page 20"), but even though I'm the one who brought it up, and I still believe that it's possible that Natsuki is a Christian based on that, there's a chance that she might not be Christian--it could be an implication that she's spiritual, but not necessarily a Christian, though if that's the case (that she wears a cross necklace because she's spiritual), it's highly likely that she is.

Only issue is that aside from that hint and the fact that it seems to be widely assumed that she is a Christian, I don't know if as a character that Natsuki admits to being a Christian of some type, or if Takaya-san stated that she is. The wonderful thing about Guyver is that everything that Takaya puts in the manga has a reason for being there, and Natsuki probably being a Christian probably doesn't espouse his own religious beliefs, but probably marks Natsuki out in her role of being the moral support for Sho and Co. We already know that Sho has Mizuki and Tetsuro as supporters, but Natsuki does appear to play "team mom/big sis" at times with them and being a supporter of Sho and his cadre.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*guyverfan]

I think kenji's statement is correct in that i could be more of a fashion thing as im sure the first time we've been introduced to natsuki, somewhere around when we first saw the gigantic, she wasn't wearing a cross on her necklace.

[*Jess♥]

a quick google search would suggest that a cross is sometimes used to accessorise the gothic lolita look, but outside that there is little mention.

 

i personally don't see that as a likelihood. I think Takaya sensei is intelligent enough to ascertain that a cross used on a non-religius character may offend some if it were merely to show an interest in 'edgy fashion'.

Guyver is not really about style or fashion or personal choices with regards to either.

which is more likely, to draw attention to natsuki for being an edgy gothic chick, or to draw attention to her having certain religious beliefs that may be related somewhat to the story content/influences?