chapter Guyver May 2012 - 18 pages

[Matt Bellamy]

I find it funny that nobody wants to accept Apollon as a new player.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think it would be weak story telling. Jade Tatsu made a thread about weak story telling and this was one of the concerns, apollon coming out of nowhere. I refuse to believe he could be a new player for that very reason. it would be lame, and takaya sensei doesn't do lame.

I agree totally, though my reasoning isn't just because "it's lame" lol!

Imakarum and Archanphel have been out of play for so long, it would be poor story telling to bring in some new guy, who we aren't even sure IS an enemy... But seems to have powers similar to Archanphel. It's not hard to believe that when Imakarum was in Archanphels healing pod, that he wasn't upgraded. Archanphel made Imakarum special right from the start... this much we already know simply because of his eyes. But Imakrum is maybe so special, that Archanphel risked almost whatever little bit of life he may have in him, to fully resurrect him, because Archanphel wants a replacement for himself, rather than just a replacement for Guyot. And with Imakrum now having seen the true past, and what Archanphels motivations actually are, it's more likely that IF Apollon is Imakarum, he's trying to complete Archanphels goal of getting the Ark going.

If anything, he might be using Tetsuro and Mizuki as bargaining chips for Sho to help him take out the remaining Zoalords... Despite some of them possibly still being loyal... But not knowing the full truth. The whole " Hey look, I know how you work. Help me complete my goal, and we'll leave Earth." type of deal.

And who knows, maybe they don't need Zoalords to power the Ark anymore. Maybe they just need the crystals. If that is the case, then all Apollon needs are the Zoa-Crystals, thus why he'd even go after still loyal Zoalords. Just as an insurance that they wouldn't betray them at a later date. I wouldn't put it past them to create some kind of biological housing for the crystals on the ark, in order for them to still function.

[Super Existence]

Also having the advents return via Apollon utterly depowers them, they work far superior as a mythological sub text rather than a returning force.

Back stories are always much more powerful if they remain in the back.

It was why that Thing prequel sucked so bad, nothing could compare to peoples imaginings of what went on in the Norwegian camp.

[Starwaster]

I find it funny that nobody wants to accept Apollon as a new player. Maybe he is a clone of Alchanfel that the Advents left sleeping, and was only recently reawakened due to the re-activation of a navi-sphere. Who knows, since we are all speculating, might as well throw in some crazy ideas. Maybe there are still other relic ships that Cronos haven't found yet.

It's the result of over analysis. Don't get me wrong, I love speculation and hypothesizing as much as anyone but in this case I think it's plain that the creators are back and they're not happy. They've noticed an infestation here, everywhere they look in fact. Undeveloped barely conscious pond scum totally convinced of their own superiority as they scurry about their short, useless lives.

[Super Existence]

How is it plain? There's far more evidence to the contrary.

[*V Guyver]

I find it funny that nobody wants to accept Apollon as a new player.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think it would be weak story telling. Jade Tatsu made a thread about weak story telling and this was one of the concerns, apollon coming out of nowhere. I refuse to believe he could be a new player for that very reason. it would be lame, and takaya sensei doesn't do lame.

I don't know, that rapid aging once the Zoacrystal was removed... I found rather lame and overused. It's been done so many times, and after all the crazy cool stuff he's shown (A Zoalord turns out out be a freaking forest... and he used gravity in an form that One Piece ended up copying later) I was let down he used such a typical plot device as rapid aging, maybe it was a good idea 20 years ago, but it's been done too many times at this point, especially in American comics and anime. I won't fault him for it since it works to tease us about Apollyon. It's sorta like how he helped Pioneer the reluctance teenage hero forced by evil, but today it's been done too many times since he's pioneered it.

Frankly, I don't think adding a new character is a bad plot addition at all. Provided it's presented in a very good way, something our beloved Mangaka is adept at, we should be pleased. Isn't the fact that we continue to debate and drool over this mystery character evidence alone that he's already delivered a new character we like? His hidden identity, regardless of being a new character or an old one is still going to be likely badass. I think we should go along for the ride, tide it out in the entertainment, and so long as the character doesn't turn out to be a freakin Teenage Alien Ninja Turtle... then I am to be pleased...

[Super Existence]

I do agree with the ageing thin and the crystal, I found that a weak and overused plot point.

It always seemed to me that their immortality and other abilities are genetically encoded and the zoacrystal is simply a huge battery to power them.

To suddenly have his ageing linked to the crystal itself seemed a bit contrived and depowered the genetic engineering of Cronos.

[*Jess♥]

I disagree. it's the zoacrystal that makes a zoalord what it is.

without the crystal, they are a zoaform plain and simple.

it has been made clear that zoaforms are to have a particular lifespan. the ark is to be a multi-generational ship.

to suggest that cronos can encode immortality into the genetic information of a zoaform would ruin the integrity of the entire premise.

on the other hand, seeing something rapidly degenerate is something we have seen plenty of in Guyver.

zoanoids rapidly decompose when they get killed. the boost organism rapidly metabolises the host if the CM is removed. to see a zoalord remain all pristine and fresh when their crystal is removed, would surely be ridiculous.

it makes sense to see a form of cellular breakdown occurring. if takaya sensei had not done that, it would have been insulting.

the manner of cellular breakdown makes sense too. for a highly optimised and perfectly balanced zoaform, the breakdown would surely be of a normal balanced type. that of natural ageing, albeit in an accelerated form.

as for the specifics of why this would occur in this way. aptom has remarked that the zoacrystal protects the integrity of the cells.

if the zoalords metabolism is increased to such a high degree, the zoacrystal would protect the integrity of the cells and also provide the increased energy needed. without the additional source of energy, the body would be power hungry and would surely start to breakdown the body materials to provide energy. like starvation. instability of the cells may cause them to lose genetic information while multiplying to maintain health. this would result in rapid ageing.

I actually think it's unfair to pick on guyver for using an over-used concept, when in guyver it actually makes sense. it may not make sense in other media, but in the one series where it does actually make sense, i think it should be embraced, not criticised

[Super Existence]

I suppose it's a much better explanation than ageing. Makes much more sense than the zoacrystal creating a permanent sate of youth.

Sold.

[river_chaos]

I disagree. it's the zoacrystal that makes a zoalord what it is.

without the crystal, they are a zoaform plain and simple.

it has been made clear that zoaforms are to have a particular lifespan. the ark is to be a multi-generational ship.

to suggest that cronos can encode immortality into the genetic information of a zoaform would ruin the integrity of the entire premise.

on the other hand, seeing something rapidly degenerate is something we have seen plenty of in Guyver.

zoanoids rapidly decompose when they get killed. the boost organism rapidly metabolises the host if the CM is removed. to see a zoalord remain all pristine and fresh when their crystal is removed, would surely be ridiculous.

it makes sense to see a form of cellular breakdown occurring. if takaya sensei had not done that, it would have been insulting.

the manner of cellular breakdown makes sense too. for a highly optimised and perfectly balanced zoaform, the breakdown would surely be of a normal balanced type. that of natural ageing, albeit in an accelerated form.

as for the specifics of why this would occur in this way. aptom has remarked that the zoacrystal protects the integrity of the cells.

if the zoalords metabolism is increased to such a high degree, the zoacrystal would protect the integrity of the cells and also provide the increased energy needed. without the additional source of energy, the body would be power hungry and would surely start to breakdown the body materials to provide energy. like starvation. instability of the cells may cause them to lose genetic information while multiplying to maintain health. this would result in rapid ageing.

I actually think it's unfair to pick on guyver for using an over-used concept, when in guyver it actually makes sense. it may not make sense in other media, but in the one series where it does actually make sense, i think it should be embraced, not criticised

This certainly makes sense when you think of the Enzyme-III Zoanoids. Their metabolisms were jacked up to the point where they had to be put back in the optimization tank after fighting so they could get a recharge but their lifespan was reduced every time (like Griselda).

[Guyver0]

Awesome chapter! However I have to say Apollon is still neither Imakurum or Archanfel, but rather he is a third party (possibly with the Uranus?). Just because he has the same abilities as Archanfel doesn't mean that it was him after all the Uranus gave Archanfel his powers, so why wouldn't they create someone as an equal to fight against Archanfel? Also I think Apollon kidnapped Mizuki and Tetsuro because he wants the Guyvers to come for him, but I don't think its a trap, but rather he may want to form an alliance? Of course this is my perspective, but I think there is something bigger going on especially with Apollon saying that they are running out of time.

-Guyver0

[Guyver0]

I find it funny that nobody wants to accept Apollon as a new player.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think it would be weak story telling. Jade Tatsu made a thread about weak story telling and this was one of the concerns, apollon coming out of nowhere. I refuse to believe he could be a new player for that very reason. it would be lame, and takaya sensei doesn't do lame.

I agree to an extent that having new characters enter the series so late can be lame, however this wouldn't be the first time the Takaya sensei has introduced new faces this late. Granted many of the new faces don't hold any significance as of yet, but it doesn't mean that it is lame. From my experience Takaya sensei has the ability to turn something that would be considered "lame" and turn it into something plausible and actually works which is what makes him a genius. For instance take one of our more recent new faces Valkyria; yes she isn't entirely new (Guyver Out of Control OVA), but she is new to this installment and so far her character has worked itself into the series in a way that I have accepted and I believe just about everyone else has.

Another instance is that not necessarily a new character, but a new ability that Sho demonstrates when he first becomes the Gigantic XD and I remember a LOT of people were originally against this (myself included) because it was too much like Power Rangers and "lame", however this new ability has even began to smooth itself out and I think it has been accepted.

My point being is that Takaya sensei has been working on this series since the 80's and we should have faith that he knows what he is doing, just because it is brand new doesn't mean its "lame" or "bad". I am not trying to convince people that Apollon is a brand new character and that he isn't Archanfel or Imakurum, who knows I can be wrong, but rather you should remain open minded and trust Takaya sensei and await his next move with eagerness.

-Guyver0

[*Jess♥]

yeah I see what you're saying.

there could be a possibility that apollon had been on earth since the creators left, quietly observing.

that perhaps the creators had planned to return after a set amount of time and that is why apollon is on a schedule.

it's good that you mentioned the schedule, that is something that we really do need to get some form of explanation for.

for the case where imakarum is apollon, what would the time limit be?

I can't think of anything.

I wonder though, if it turned out to be a newcomer, then what would be the point of all these hints? the use of the spiral attack was an obvious hint at imakarum or alkanfel. if it were a newcomer, then what would be the purpose of the hint? it's almost like, those kind of hints, if a red herring, is usually used for misdirection from an already existing character. it wouldn't make much sense to be misdirecting us from a character that has not even been introduced yet.

in fact, if anything were a red herring, I would think that would be barcas' remark at apollon being a vanguard of the creators.

[jerrygoodman]

I just had another thought -- what if Apollon was left on Earth by the Creators, like Ryuki says, but they had left him as a "fail safe program" in the event their attempt to destroy humanity had failed?

[Guyver0]

Apollon being left behind as a fail safe is a strong possibility. However I personally still believe that he just recently came to Earth by order of the Uranus. Perhaps when the Uranus came back to Earth they were shocked to see all of their experiments not only thriving, but preparing an attack. However the Uranus may only be targeting Archanfel and his fellow Zoalords because they're the immediate threat and are trying other alternatives like Apollon instead of doing something drastic like genocide. The only one who knows at the moment is Takaya sensei.

-Guyver0

[Guyver0]

yeah I see what you're saying. there could be a possibility that apollon had been on earth since the creators left, quietly observing. that perhaps the creators had planned to return after a set amount of time and that is why apollon is on a schedule. it's good that you mentioned the schedule, that is something that we really do need to get some form of explanation for. for the case where imakarum is apollon, what would the time limit be? I can't think of anything. I wonder though, if it turned out to be a newcomer, then what would be the point of all these hints? the use of the spiral attack was an obvious hint at imakarum or alkanfel. if it were a newcomer, then what would be the purpose of the hint? it's almost like, those kind of hints, if a red herring, is usually used for misdirection from an already existing character. it wouldn't make much sense to be misdirecting us from a character that has not even been introduced yet. in fact, if anything were a red herring, I would think that would be barcas' remark at apollon being a vanguard of the creators.

Just a thought on the whole Apollon using the same techniques as the other Zoalords including Archenfel/Imakurum and Edward Carlleon he maybe an exact counter balance with Archanfel. The Uranus did create Archafel and gave him his power in the first place, it wouldn't be a wild assumption that they created an equal to Archanfel to fight against him. If that is the case then Apollon may just be a Nemesis to Archanfel. Kind of Link vs Dark Link from Legend of Zelda? I know weird reference, but is the only one coming to mind at the time.

-Guyver0

[Salkafar]

Considering the reaction of the Uranus, I do not believe they had a special contingency for Archanfel.

I think Apollo is something new. And considering his cryptic references to the Uranus returning, I do not think he is either Archanfel or Imakarum.

[Guyver0]

Well, if Apollon was a contingency of any kind it wouldn't be against Archanfel entirely, but the whole of humanity. Though it is a small gap there were months where the Uranus put a stop to all of their plans and maybe when they were coming to a decision they decided to create Apollon before they left or maybe Apollon was going to originally become the 2nd Zoalord created by the Uranus, but stopped it after the events of of Guyver 0 and they could've been in the middle of making Apollon during those events then suddenly decided to finish him but give him a new derogative. The Uranus did state they would create Eleven others like Archanfel for their plans. This is of course all speculation on my part, but the whole Apollon origin theory can be virtually limitless until Takaya sensei is ready to reveal the "whole" that is Apollon.

-Guyver0

[*V Guyver]

Another possibility is that he may be Alchy's prototype, or for all we know another ancient Zoalord form the time of Uranus. It's all sketchy since the only hint of his identity has been his Uranus armor (saying it aloud sounds ridiculous) and his Zoalord abilities.

[Salkafar]

This is an Adaptoid:

It is a normally featureless android which can take on the appearance, powers and abilities of whatever it encounters.

Apollo may not be organic at all. Maybe it is a mechanism - and why not? The navigation spheres are information carriers in solid form, like threedimensional quantum hard drives.

Maybe he is not gathering Zoa-crystals to use them, but merely to eradicate the Zoalords. Without Archanfel, and perhaps even with him, Chronos cannot create true Zoa-Crystals. Without Zoalords, Chronos will collapse. Zoanoids need powerful leaders or they will turn on each other. Humans are doing it already.

I really don't think he's wearing a helmet. I think that's his face.

If the Uranus can create combat machines as advanced as this, they don't need Zoaforms at all. They can only be a threat to them. So they send the equivalent of a Terminator to take Chronos off the board. Apollo may decide to simply wait it out, since Archanfel may not have much longer to live.

I really hope we will learn more about their war sometime soon...

[*Jess♥]

Hey Guys,

I tried contacting amika to ask about translating, but couldn't get hold of him, so I asked durendal to translate for us even though he doesn't like translating from chinese.

Now Durendal has given us a translation and I have typesetted it for you.

here you go - http://www.mediafire.com/?hn3g6571731daeu

sorry salkafar you didn't have the opportunity to typeset this for us, durendal passed the translation to my via pm this morning.

we've been talking about it, and we seem to be agreeing that a quick translation is better, rather than waiting for a japanese scan.

so it should hopefully be quicker next month.

[river_chaos]

Yay, a translation!

.......

Wait, what? Now I seriously doubt it is Imakarum/Alky. Apollon doesn't appear to recognize a Lost Number right in front of him.

[Super Existence]

I think it's definitely not Alcanphel as he doesn't report to anyone and we have sen Apollon speak of a mission as though he is under orders.

[Cannibal]

Thanks for the scanlation!

I found a raw scan: http://dvusrachek.ifolder.ru/29665513 (sorry, I wanted to upload to mediafire, but can't even find the Upload button )

EDIT: oh, so you need to register to upload. Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?rbufnnruhb0kmvc

Edited April 1, 2012 by Cannibal

[lost unit]

still havent lost your touch Ryuki,thanks for typesetting and durendal for the translation.

all i have to do now is catch up. cant wait !

[guyverfanatic]

Thanks for the translation!