W'Kar Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 What if the Atrahasis had killed Fighter Guyver II before his death in Genocide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernought Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I don't think Greg would have evolved if his brother had been killed off earlier...Yea he still would have been pissed but not to the point to drive him over the edge. If i recall correctly it took a compilation of deaths of people near him to trigger his transformation, Fighter Guyver II's death may have put him well on the path of his next evolution but perhaps not into the Anubis form we know now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan Warlord Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I don't think Greg would have evolved if his brother had been killed off earlier...Yea he still would have been pissed but not to the point to drive him over the edge. If i recall correctly it took a compilation of deaths of people near him to trigger his transformation, Fighter Guyver II's death may have put him well on the path of his next evolution but perhaps not into the Anubis form we know now. i agree...W'Kar without a doubt would have been reeeeeeal pissed!!...buh not enough to trigga his evolution...buh even if it did i i doubt he would have turned into Anubis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Demon1472669266 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Weren't they close though? I can't remember. If they were, the effect of Jarrod's death would be worse than if they were your typical brothers. But, yeah, he would would have been angry. But not to trigger an evolution. I think that Jarrod's death was just the final evolution trigger. If the events were more spaced out, there would be time to deal with each one in between, not leaving Greg so emotionally unstable. As it is, part of the problem wasn't so much the deaths themselves, but the time frame in which they happened. Don't forget, Alkanphel and he were friends, and were fighting together, and Fighter Guyver II was killed in battle, the same battle. All of them more or less happens within a day. I don't care if you're Superman or a god, nobody can recover from three separate events in under 2 hours. You need time to grieve and mourn. Greg wasn't given that time. So, it may have, and it may not have triggered an evolution. Give how unstable Greg is anyway, he would have become emotionally volatile anyway, possibly turning into Anubis anyway, even if he could initially control it. Part of the metamorphosis was that he was so unstable in a normal state. You take away two important things, and you might advert disaster with Greg. First, take away the short time in which everything happened. Spread it over a month. You're chance of a triggered evolution has all ready decreased significantly, regardless of how unstable Greg may be. Second, take away the volatility of each moment, and again, the risk is less. But, it is purely guesswork, as this is a "what if" after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernought Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I think overall the Anubis evolution was brought about through Greg's blood lust and instant need for the absolute power to totally and finally obliterate all of his enemies that were killing off his friends, allies and remaining family. Initially his need for power was towards the intent of protection, but because of the twisted nature of his unit manipulating his emotions and mind, the need got twisted and morphed into something completely different. Yea he gained power, and yea he slayed all his enemies but he also erased everything that made him Greg in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodStorm Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 If fighter guyver was killed earlier.. there would be no Rabid.. or maybe there would.. but he'ld just be sleeping on a big empty rock and no one would ever find him. And that would be sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernought Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Ahh but here's an interesting what if...what if Ira hadn't been where she'd been doing the whole choo choo train that could in those woods, and Chronos had found those units? We would have had a whole other kinda W'kar to be worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McAvoy Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Weren't they close though? I can't remember. If they were, the effect of Jarrod's death would be worse than if they were your typical brothers.But, yeah, he would would have been angry. But not to trigger an evolution. I think that Jarrod's death was just the final evolution trigger. If the events were more spaced out, there would be time to deal with each one in between, not leaving Greg so emotionally unstable. As it is, part of the problem wasn't so much the deaths themselves, but the time frame in which they happened. Don't forget, Alkanphel and he were friends, and were fighting together, and Fighter Guyver II was killed in battle, the same battle. All of them more or less happens within a day. I don't care if you're Superman or a god, nobody can recover from three separate events in under 2 hours. You need time to grieve and mourn. Greg wasn't given that time. So, it may have, and it may not have triggered an evolution. Give how unstable Greg is anyway, he would have become emotionally volatile anyway, possibly turning into Anubis anyway, even if he could initially control it. Part of the metamorphosis was that he was so unstable in a normal state. You take away two important things, and you might advert disaster with Greg. First, take away the short time in which everything happened. Spread it over a month. You're chance of a triggered evolution has all ready decreased significantly, regardless of how unstable Greg may be. Second, take away the volatility of each moment, and again, the risk is less. But, it is purely guesswork, as this is a "what if" after all. I believe you are pretty much right. In the fight with Atrahasis he did not have literally the world on his shoulders like he did in Genocide. That may have caused Greg to blow his top and just maybe under go another evolution but nothing on the scale as when he became Anubis. Though there tmight have been a possibility that he could have turned into a good Anubis if he did. But that's just guesswork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Demon1472669266 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Again, it's all guesswork. Any what if is. This one is intriguing though, simply because of the particulars involved. Like, let's suppose that he eventually did turn into a 'Good' Anubis as it were. What happens next? Where do they go? Who do they fight? What kind of new units are involved, if any? You get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W'Kar Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 My guess, 'Good' Anubis may have done exactly what evil Anubis has done, sans the evil method. Perhaps with this new view on things he still created the Lycanlords but harvest them from the deceased rather than living people, or maybe from another substance altogether. Maybe instead of tearing chunks out of the AAR and Creators to make the Order, he does so from within transforming the AAR into a group more powerful than the Creators could ever hope to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McAvoy Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Probably viewing the AAR as too weak and institute what he thinks would be the best way for the AAR to defeat the Creators. Sort of like Anakin Skywalker viewing turning to the Darkside to save Padme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Demon1472669266 Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Probably viewing the AAR as too weak and institute what he thinks would be the best way for the AAR to defeat the Creators. Sort of like Anakin Skywalker viewing turning to the Darkside to save Padme. Eh, I'm not too sure how good of a comparison that is. It may be valid, but, it seems kinda weak. And, Al, that may be, but it would still mean forcing a set of people into a mold. It's not exactly "evil" but it certainly wouldn't be viewed as "good". But, I suppose it is all completely relative now, isn't it? Anyway, the AAR was weak to begin with. The stability depended on a lack of dissent in the ranks. Anubis at least held everything in check, albeit with fear and terror, not to mention flat out controlling his warriors somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McAvoy Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Anakin also had a view very similer to Palpatine's New Order. He hated politics. That was well before his turn to his Darkside. Yeah i know it was a weak comparison, but if we had a Good Anubis, that's how it'll go down. He thinks his way is the best course and most people will not. Good Anubis may not be as obviously evil as the real Anubis, but he could be viewed as evil or misunderstood. Sounds like a nice fan-fanfic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Demon1472669266 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Eh, I say it's a toss up. It could go either way. Really, unless someone decides to give us a complete psych eval, it could end up being any number of ways, not the least of which is what you're suggesting. Mostly, it's extremely difficult to quantify the set probabilities of any one general timeline with the details vague. This is because of the literal infinite universes that are part of the general multiverse. You can give a general case of what you think it may be, but in reality we have no way of truly answering these 'What-if's, though it's still funny to see us try. It gives us something to think about. In this case, to say that the series of events that compounded to trigger that last evolution could have been avoided would be like saying let's try to move a tidal wave. It's possible, just not likely. If I remember correctly, the series of events that set everything into motion could not be easily stopped once they began. I can't actually remember. Anyway, the inherent difficulties of trying to stop those events would have produced results that were likely to be far worse on an astronomically greater scale. Sometimes, (and I was hesitant to say usually or typically) when a series of events occur, such as the events that triggered the evolution, when those events are close to each other, then it is not only difficult to overcome them individually, but also as a whole, particularly if there is a death involved of someone who was particularly close to one of the participants. Given that I don't have actual proof of this, it's hard to be completely concrete on this. However, inserting a detail such as a conversation can have a drastic effect on a timeline. If for instance, the two had had a conversation prior to the fight, or even prior to Fighter Guyver II's death, than Greg could have possibly averted the whole thing. This is if the conversation wasn't a fight between brothers, and allowed both brothers to understand neither may come back from the fight. And given who and what they were fighting, it was pretty much a guarantee, even with the Guyver armor, that someone would die at some point in time. This would have likely given both brothers the time to grief for the other should they die. It doesn't completely fit, nor does it completely explain everything. Even if the evolution still triggered, which in all honesty, is a very good, and very likely possibility, the perversion of the unit might have been as bad. My best guess on an evolution being triggered is somewhere close to 50%. It's dicey at best. Conversely, if the conversation had been a fight, then the evolution that would have indeed triggered (my best guess it a 90%+ on the evolution being triggered) the evolution, and the perversion would have been just as bad or worse than it actually happened. This is given that no actual grieving time has been established, like it did happen, and that Greg would have been plenty angry going into the fight, which in all honesty, means more mistakes are being made because he couldn't think straight because he was mad. When you go into a fight, or battle, or duel angry or mad, or with any negative emotion, then you are more likely to mess up, and lose, die, etc. You get the point. In all likelyhood, the evolution, like I stated was finally triggered by Fighter Guyver's death, in conjunction with the death of Anubis, and a bunch of other things. The genocide of the Human Race isn't exactly something to be taken lightly either, particularly since eons of history was lost in an instant. Granted, no one was really interested at that point about history, but there were important artifacts that could have been useful that may have been destroyed. Greg's instability may have been a factor, but I highly doubt that it was a major factor in the long run. You talk about lusting for power, that may be true, as it is part of human nature to want power over other beings, including ourselves, but that lust was also part of a much larger picture in terms of what Greg was feeling. Truthfully, what would you be feeling at that point? Hatred mostly, anger, desire for revenge, sadness, confusion, and probably fear. That need for power links the hatred, anger, and the need for revenge. Now, conversely to what been talked about. What if he hadn't died in the battle, and it had been just Alkanphel who died, but the evolution was still triggered, from the stress, feeling of failure, need for revenge, hatred, etc.? I don't think that Fighter Guyver II could have talked Anubis down from where he was at that point, and certainly not where the story is now. That's just me though. I think the real irony is that I don't think the story would have been too much more different, events may have been delayed, but that may have been it. Conversely, the trigger event may never have happened, and Greg was still Greg, which means a whole hell never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*zeo Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Anakin also had a view very similer to Palpatine's New Order. He hated politics. That was well before his turn to his Darkside. Yeah i know it was a weak comparison, but if we had a Good Anubis, that's how it'll go down. He thinks his way is the best course and most people will not. Good Anubis may not be as obviously evil as the real Anubis, but he could be viewed as evil or misunderstood. Sounds like a nice fan-fanfic. Actually sounds like Marvel Comics two versions of Adam Warlock. The Magus being the bad Anubis and the Goddess being the good Anubis. Both ultimately would have destroyed the universe, which goes to the whole ying and yang balance thing that without balance everything goes to hell concept. Which is a theme in most comics, even Superman needs Clark Kent to keep Superman from becoming a monster. Anubis just has nothing to compare what he is doing to to know it's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exscaped_pyscho Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 What would Anubis do if he realized what he is doing is wrong? And would the order continue to obey Anubis if he switched sides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan Warlord Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 hmm...good question id say baphomet would obey him down to his very dimise as would yaksha...ereshkigal would openly oppose the idea of being "good" but after a few beating would change her tune but stil find a way to bring evil to the universe even if in a small way...if zagam truely has turned his back on his past id say he would follow anubis only because he had to until he found a way to over throw him OR embrace his former self and strive to be the great protecter he once was...with the lycanlords its more complicated as although they may follow anubis mindlessly they still need flesh to statisfy their hunger so something would need to be done there...but saying all of that the universe would never accept anubis after all the woe hes cause hes literally made the universe cry out in pain...the only person who would be able to accept him would be cassandra and shes unavailable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernought Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 Why would he believe he was wrong with everything and all he is, is telling him what he is doing is right and necessary for the "greater good". Also, from Anubis' perspective what he is doing is good and what the ARR feels and believes are seen as foolish and misguided. So it is highly unlikely for him to change his mind even now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Demon1472669266 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Eh, honestly? Anubis has a slight *sarcasm detected* god or messiah complex. There's nothing more to be said. If one truly believes what they do is "for the greater good", then they will not be sorry for it, regardless of what happens. It's how people believe. It's how some of the crazy dictators got in power in the first place. In most cases, I'd say capture 'em and put 'em on trial, or kill 'em. In this case, I'd not say that. Actually, I'm not sure what I'd say. At any rate, it's a matter of opinion of what's for the "greater good" in this matter, though Anubis' way is far too bloody for me to stomach. But, I'm queasy when it comes to excessive bloodshed. I don't like horror movies for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernought Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 True, but also it is quite simple....Convert now or die a slow, torturous and pain ridden death. Either way, you still die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exscaped_pyscho Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 An even scarier thought is that Anubis may know what he is doing is wrong. Like a Satan worshiper knowing that a human sacrifice is wrong. But a Satan worshipper (not all perhaps) believes they are doing God's work because God created the devil and allows him to continue to exist thusly God wishes for evil to spread and multiply just as good is ment to. Add this twisted view on the universe and then add in Anubis's meglomaniac personality and mix in a slight god complex (as Thunder Demon stated) and you get Anubis. The happy evil doer, the purpetual 'bad guy.' He's an evil god because that is what he was ment to be. That's how I see him anyways. Now picture him being like Lestat from the Vampire Chronicles, suddenly having a crisis of faith and wishing to become a saint despite the monster he is. Even if Anubis wanted to be good, or even if he thinks he is good, he will always be a killing machine, a monster plain and simple. Even if he joined the AAR (not that they'd have him) he would still be a 'bad guy.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W'Kar Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I've said it many times. Good and Evil are a matter of perspective. Some of the most atrocious crimes of the modern age were considered noble acts in the past. Many of our current views and attitudes will be seen as barbaric and evil in the future. Who is to say who is really right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McAvoy Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 ..the victor.. Look at the Nazis for example. If they won, would they look at themselves 60 to 70 years ago and say that they were wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder Demon1472669266 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Yup. History is written by the winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W'Kar Posted February 23, 2008 Author Share Posted February 23, 2008 Exactly. Sad fact is in the end, Might makes Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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