chapter Guyver July 2014

[TheAptomStrain]

Well, like I mentioned before, invisibility would not work because the Guyver unit can sense a subject even if the host cannot see it.

Not true. Sho didn't notice Gastal until Aptom started to absorb him. Sho wasn't able to see Evil Aptom either. And Val didn't notice Aptom while she was fighting the Enzyme III's. I think you should read over the manga again before going on about how "full-proof" Guyver's senses are.

Edited June 7, 2014 by TheAptomStrain

[Larz Zahn]

Even if a Guyver could detect those zoanoids, Aptom can definitely improve their ability, only Apollyon and Alky has ever detected Aptom.

[LordSpleach]

The only times when a Guyver has detected a stealth zoanoid, it has been either through extreme concentration(in Sho's case), or scoping out the perimeter of the confined area to locate the stealth zoanoid(in Val's case).

[*guyverfan]

pretty sure the way it was described in the manga was guyvers aren't able to see or sense an invisible or cloaked object but are able to sense the distortion/displacement in the surrounding air around said object.

[neozxtole]

  I erroneously said that they can sense invisible objects, but I believe that you have articulated the exact thought that I meant to share. 

[*guyverfan]

  I erroneously said that they can sense invisible objects, but I believe that you have articulated the exact thought that I meant to share. 

 

[*Jess♥]

Shou only detected Gastahl because of a 'blind spot.'

 

it's pointless anyway because aptom hardly has enough energy to walk. he certainly can't use any special abilities.

 

I also need to point out that aptom is not stupid. he's not going to act hostile towards Val in his current condition.

[Guest Jupiter]

Shou only detected Gastahl because of a 'blind spot.'

 

it's pointless anyway because aptom hardly has enough energy to walk. he certainly can't use any special abilities.

 

I also need to point out that aptom is not stupid. he's not going to act hostile towards Val in his current condition.

 

How long does it take for Aptom to regain or build up energy without eating another zoanoid to replenish?

[Aether]

how long is a piece of string?

[neozxtole]

  Well, at this point, we may not be able to pinpoint exactly which zoanoid Aptom got the spear from, but we can know this: he can show ANY new weapon we have not yet seen and the author does not need to give ANY precise explanation of which zoanoid he got it from because he absorbed so many zoanoids in the battle with Khan and that makes it a scapegoat to make him have whatever abilities he wants him to have.   But like I mentioned in a previous post, it would be cool to have a chart show exactly all the types of zoanoids he absorbed and their abilities. 

[Guest Jupiter]

  Well, at this point, we may not be able to pinpoint exactly which zoanoid Aptom got the spear from, but we can know this: he can show ANY new weapon we have not yet seen and the author does not need to give ANY precise explanation of which zoanoid he got it from because he absorbed so many zoanoids in the battle with Khan and that makes it a scapegoat to make him have whatever abilities he wants him to have.   But like I mentioned in a previous post, it would be cool to have a chart show exactly all the types of zoanoids he absorbed and their abilities. 

 

I really agree with your comment. I think it makes it easier for Yoshiki Takaya to use Aptom's abilities to what ever end against other enemies more effectively and not having to be bound strictly to a limited set of zoanoid abilities and skills, like the hyper zoanoid team 5. I think how Aptom was captured was that Yoshiki was creating a series of events in which Aptom would and could evolve to a higher and stronger form so he could fight on equal footing along side Sho and Agito instead of just having the same powers.

[*Jess♥]

I disagree.

I don't think that event gives caveat to freely introduce any number of exotic abilities.  that would be bad storytelling. there was a window of opportunity for the author to demonstrate abilities obtained from that absorbing spree and that window of opportunity was the the following battle.

after that window of opportunity, it is not good story telling to introduce any new ability obtained from that event. in a real world situation, it would certainly be possible, but we are talking about a narrative.

the reason, is that it will not be fresh in the readers mind. any flashback to that event in order to introduce a new ability would be seen as sloppy and almost like a deus ex machina.

also, aptom needs to have set limits in order for his struggles to have purpose and meaning.

[Larz Zahn]

Plus i struggle with flash backs in Naruto and one piece. Guyver does NOT need to go that route.

[neozxtole]

  Well, all Aptom, or the author really, would need to do is have Aptom use a new technique or weapon and have him say to some in the comic or in a thinking bubble that thanks to some of the Zoanoids or Hyper Zoanoids that he absorbed, he could replicate whatever it is he did. I still think that it is masterful the way he allowed himself the freedom to have Aptom do anything he wants him to do. As an example, and I pointed this out in the thread where   arrives in Japan, that when Aptom is in his Evil Aptom form, that the left part of his chest and shoulder belongs to the Hyper Zoanoid she fights in the outskirts of the airport. Takaya sensei has never offered an explanation as to which Zoanoids Aptom resembles in that form because it isn't needed. It is implied as to why he looks the way he looks and the reader accepts it. The same with his unknown abilities. Another example is when Aptom is at Biofreezer's when he is dying and Aptom creates a bio-laser out of his hand. I thought that was cool and unexpected, yet we are not told which Zoanoid that belongs to, though I think that I can figure it out by looking at past issues.  

[*Jess♥]

look at a direct comparison.

it is not the same form as the guy at the airport.

 

looking at evil aptom, most apparent is bilfinger and zangallo.

the others are not shown.

his right arm is bilfinger and his left leg is zangallo. can't remember his right leg but I know that his left arm was not featured in any of the zoanoids in previous panels. it must be assumed that there were some that we did not see. like the ones in the background.

it is as i was saying, there was a window of opportunity to show what he had absorbed.

any not used in that period is not on the table to be used in the future. any attempt to use them is bad story telling. I don't think it's masterful. if that was his intention then it would be cowardly. what would be masterful is if he had specifically foreshadowed something in that section. sometimes we miss foreshadowing, but to use something that is simply not shown and to use a random event to explain it away, is cheap.

i mean, it's possible to say that about any period after aptom left cronos. there are plenty of occasions where we have not seen aptom. we know he eats up zoanoids as a regular pastime. so we can see him get any new ability at any point without any explanation because he can absorb any zoanoid at any point that we are not specifically watching. but it doesn't happen and you know why? because it's bad story telling to not show something that will later become significant.

[neozxtole]

 I didn't say his whole body looked like the Hyper Zoanoid from the fight at the airport. I said his left shoulder and I should have said part of the left part of his chest. To me he does look like in his Evil Aptom form, he has that Hyper's part of the body. As far as that being "bad story telling" or "cowardly," I think to say that is rough, even severe. But anyways, in my opinion doing what he did, Takaya sensei did something awesome. I personally can't wait to see what Aptom's other abilities are.

[durendal]

Well, so far, a lot of abilities Aptom has shown which he didn't know where it came from was actually established before he was ever aware of them.  He didn't know where he got the cloak from but we do.  He didn't know where he got the high frequency spear, but we do.  The only reason why we think that Aptom absorbed a lot of random Zoanoids that we didn't know was because he said it himself.  Even cursing Kablarl (blarg, barf, belch.  Dammit, hard to keep saliva from dripping saying that name) for it instead of thanking him.  He could pull one or two abilities out of that plot (and should be a significant one so to speak), but having more, as Yuki said, would be poor story telling.  The challenge here is what other abilities he has shown while in Chaos Aptom that he can extract to form as a new ability.  Perhaps we will eventually see Aptom having the ability to mass absorb zoanoids and turn into a powerful dragon to rival the Exceed?

 

Now, did we ever see Aptom absorb the barrier guy?  that's probably an ability that he badly needs.  Would save a lot of regenerating time.

[Super Existence]

He does have a barrier he used it to stop Shins attack when they met with him at Cloud Gate.

That's something that annoyed me there was no foreshadowing of him absorbing that shield zoanoid at the airport.

I agree with Yuki it's bad story telling, we've already seen this happen a couple of times in Guyver;

Aptom figured out that the zoacrystal stops him absorbing zoalords like the control medal does with Guyver even though there was no scene to establish this.

This I hope won't happen again like Aptom does have the ability to exceed by having stolen Karlbarls ability in the fight with him even though he never mentioned

he could do that.

Anymore spontaneous developement of new abilities Aptom may exhibit without a good setup is going to affect my enjoyment of Guyver.

[Guest Jupiter]

Don't we hardly see Aptom fight as it is? I mean it seems we see more of the Gigantics fighting than we do see Aptom getting his hands dirty. The last chapter we saw Aptom in action was with Kahn and that was pretty much it. We've yet to see more action out of Aptom Omega Blast form. The only thing from what we've seen is him using a high frequency blade to stall the Libertus before he ran away to the mansion before it was burned down.

[*Jess♥]

 I didn't say his whole body looked like the Hyper Zoanoid from the fight at the airport. I said his left shoulder and I should have said part of the left part of his chest. To me he does look like in his Evil Aptom form, he has that Hyper's part of the body. As far as that being "bad story telling" or "cowardly," I think to say that is rough, even severe. But anyways, in my opinion doing what he did, Takaya sensei did something awesome. I personally can't wait to see what Aptom's other abilities are.

sorry, I should have been more courteous.

I Agree that it looks similar to him, but many zoanoids look similar to each other. a direct comparison of the left side of evil aptom and teh zoanoid from th airport, reveal some specific differences that to me negate teh possibility that he gained that visual appearance from the same type of zoanoid. (let's also remember that hypers are difficult to reproduce with only a couple of examples shown of a repeat aka zerbebuth)

the fact that he was in the vicinity of the airport long after the events of cloud gate, give a possibility that he absorbed thet guy's dna so he may have a barrier ability now.

 

anyway, I also want to mention the part where he blocked shin's attack. it is my feeling that shin's attack was not a very powerful one as he was not even in his battle mode. it must have been a relatively low intensity blast and could have been blocked by the EM shield that aptom has already demonstrated.

 

it's really interesting that he has abilities that he himself is not aware of! I do agree that is a very interesting plot device. I almost want to call it cute. I like it a lot.

it does make me think of when he was on top of draglord... did he try to absorb then and was blocked by cablarl's zoacrystal? I am wondering about teh time when he said he couldn't absorb a zoalord because of the zoacrystal and getting blocked like he was with ht CM. was that dialogue before or after? in any case, I do think that line of dialogue was a bit too far of an assumption so I do agree on that point.

[Larz Zahn]

I'll have to look it up but i believe the remark was before the Khan fight.reason being is Aptom mentioned he could absorb Khan now because Khan had zoanoid bodies/flesh surrounding his own.

[Larz Zahn]

Question, do think that Aptom is using his adaptive shape shifting ability to cover Sho, or do you think it could be another zoanoid power he absorbed?

[Guest Jupiter]

Aptom has been known to mimic anything he sees by compressing his genetic structure. We saw that ability when he was first introduced to us via Lost Numbers Commandos. I don't know if that has anything to do with his ability to mimic anything he sees. But that doesn't explain how he can cover the Guyver's body like he has been doing in the manga. I really wonder if any of the Guyver Advocacy Members would know a bit more about this, I think it might help.

[*V Guyver]

Though he can' mimic, it's been shown that he can do alot with that body. Remember how he turned himself into tiny missiles? Frankly, him being able to turn himself into a flesh coat isn't too far from what he can already do. 

Even if you were to disregard how much he could change his body now. One just has to look back to his original power (which he's improved and surpassed on greatly) to show that he could mimic anything he wanted. You have to think about how he was mimicking, his power was based on what he had seen visually, and thus all his imitations were flawed. In his G1 imitation, it was a lousy one that couldn't even replicate the face, his G3 imitation was incredibly improved, but he still couldn't replicate the control medal, and his eyes were the wrong detail, later his Thancruz and Imakirum were also good, but had flaws. So that tells us that his transformations, were really limited by his imagination, and his original power was limited by his organs.

The current aptom doesn't need internal organs unless it's for a practical purpose, like a weapon, as seen by his thin layer body over Guyver. Aptom also isn't limited in shapes, though he might have a size limit.  That's my take on it from what I've seen so far. 

[*Jess♥]

I wouldn't say he doesn't have need for internal organs.

I think it's fair to say he is pretty flexible in his need for organs on a constant basis, but to say he doesn't need them at all is perhaps a stretch. I mean he does need to metabolise and respire etc. but most importantly, he needs a brain.

It was explained that his cells upon finding no brain, would enter a state of ontogenesis in order to rapidly create the necessary organs.

They need organs to perform specific functions. his cells aren't up to the task of sustaining a complex lifeform.

a brain needs blood with fuel and oxygen and hormones etc. I would imagine zoanoid processes take up a lot of energy and is a secondary reason why they can turn back to human form. their human metabolism stores up energy that is needed for zoanoid things. if their metabolism isn't effective enough so they can't store enough energy from food, they go in a processing tank.

I imagine that since aptom can't get access to a processing tank easily, he must have a digestive system of sorts. he has his predation whatever ability which can convert other organism into his own cellular material. but once that has occurred, he needs to have systems in his body to metabolise that material and use it for energy for his brain and other normal human processes. I would imagine that when he isn't going about his business, he is still fundamentally human.
It's all conjecture of course. he might be nothing more than a slime creature now.