Man of Steel

[odin]

Looking at it a different way I am actually glad Man of Steel has such a mixed reviews and opinions, it means that the movie is worth talking about, The only thing I did no like about Man of steel was the death of Pa Kent, I seriously think it should have stayed a heart attack cause the scenario in which he died could have been fixed in so many ways without revealing Clark's identity, the heart attack was meant to humble Clark into knowing that he is not all powerful God and there are things that even HE can't stop, other than that the movie was a fantastic experience to me. Sure Henry Cavill is no Christopher Reeve but he does not have too, he brings his own unique performance to how a modern superman should be, a rookie one at that which was handled well.

[*YoungGuyver]

I couldn't agree with you more Odin.  very well said

if humans did lack morality, we would become a stronger race. we don't kill the physically weak because we are moral. This in the long run results in a genetic pool that has variety but in it's general essence is weaker than it would have been. humans are intellectually and technologically superior to humans of the past, but physically, we are generally weaker. If we lacked morality and were therefore perhaps considered an evil race, we would kill the weak people and the disabled and the low intelligence people, and the race as a whole would become stronger. selective breeding would result in a very powerful race. I can't imagine anybody being able to advocate such a thing... well of courser somebody did around the 1940's, but I believe the concept is factually correct, if not something that could be considered truly evil.

Humans would not become stronger if we lacked morality, we would wipe ourselves out.  The only way to survive is if we became solitary creatures, in which, unless we became stronger we would be easy prey.

 

Without morality, murder becomes no problem.  If we murder more than are born, we are led to extinction.  Truth makes communication meaningful, and allows us to work together (collecting food, and saving the injured).  If we can not trust each other, then we can not work together and civilization breaks down.  Would we have hospitals without morality?  How many of us have ever been extremely sick in our life times?  An old friend of mine pointed out that without science (knowledge that is honestly passed down and accumulated through the ages) that by all rights he should be dead, save for what our artificial practices have done, diabetes would have killed him.

[durendal]

So you're basically saying that the basic instincts of humans are downright evil?  I have to agree with you there.  God know how may species the humans have made extinct.  But animals have no concept of morality but they still survived to this day if they are left alone.

 

I'm a shallow person and I have no grasp of what you guys are talking about in the movie, particularly the religious insinuations.  I don't care if you see Jor-El as God and Kal-El as Jesus.  To be completely honest, comparing the movie to religion kinda puts me off.  What is so bad about simply enjoying a movie?  Why analyze too deeply?  It's a freaking movie and seeing it makes me happy.  Why over analyze things?  Have we evolved too much that it is very hard to enjoy simple things?  Would this lead us to someday eventually put drama into a simple act such as pissing?  Oh, the relieving pleasure of water leaving the body.  How it soothes the bladder making you feel the warmth of your body, ever the tingling sensation in your shoulders as you feel the container being emptied into the shiny water closet.  With the trickling sound of urine splashing into the water's surface making melodious music to your ears.

[*Jess♥]

ha ha ha durendal!! [emote=monkey]haha[/emote]  So funny!!

 

actually, durendal, I'm with you on this, I did just enjoy the movie and I didn't want to think too much about it.

I just wanted to mention this evolution part because i had read it earlier before seeing the movie and I noticed it when I watched the movie.

but it's no big deal.

 

Youngguyver, I agree with most of what you're saying. I agree that morality makes humanity stronger as a species due to our ability to make the weaker ones stronger etc. also, our concept of strength has evolved to strength of character etc. the people who appear the most physically frail and mentally challenged, can often have such strength of character and other strengths that many of us don't.

The point I was trying to make though, was that I felt you were berating the movie, but I don't think the movie ought to be berated, only the character.

[*Jess♥]

oh! it turns out I found that clip yesterday when I was browsing for info about kryptonian strength.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xmoney/9170032951/

[Salkafar]

which is incorrect, because social creatures require morality in order to work together. Evolution does not breed out morality.

side note here...

if humans did lack morality, we would become a stronger race. we don't kill the physically weak because we are moral. This in the long run results in a genetic pool that has variety but in it's general essence is weaker than it would have been. humans are intellectually and technologically superior to humans of the past, but physically, we are generally weaker. If we lacked morality and were therefore perhaps considered an evil race, we would kill the weak people and the disabled and the low intelligence people, and the race as a whole would become stronger. selective breeding would result in a very powerful race. I can't imagine anybody being able to advocate such a thing... well of courser somebody did around the 1940's, but I believe the concept is factually correct, if not something that could be considered truly evil.

 

It wouldn't work. How do we know it wouldn't? Because it's not what we became. We were not outcompeted by a human race that worked that way. So.

[*YoungGuyver]

Yep, the movie can be enjoyed.  Just got into discussing the subtle messages in the movie

 

nope.  I'm saying that morality, to a point is a part of our insticts, that we evolved with it.  Though I can agree with what you are saying too about our inherit evil tendencies.  Just not evolving specifically.

So you're basically saying that the basic instincts of humans are downright evil?

[*Jess♥]

hey, I want to revisit some of the issues that were brought up here.

more noticeably the line about evolution.

from my understanding of what I read in this thread, I disagreed. but I am thinking it may be a communication/understanding error because I believe I have identified the spirit of the argument.

upon watching this for the third time yesterday, I started to notice the themes and suggestions in this movie.

it does appear to be very much leaning towards the christian ideology.  The whole ideas of Clark surrendering for humanity etc.

I realised that yes, the line about evolution was a sort of characterisation of the arguments of creationism vs evolution.

I have to be honest, that line always did seem a bit forced to me. I didn't initially see it in this light, but I did feel that the dialogue seemed a little out of place.

[Super Existence]

Saw this yesterday, the stuff people were compaining about didn't bother me like what happened to Zod an the collateral damage issue. I was more baffled by the movie as a whole.

the cinematography was nice and I like the use of macro lenses and shallow DOF but I disliked the constant shaky cam.

 

They definitely did the best superman flying and fighting stuff without a doubt. There was ultimately somthing a bit cold and soulless about it though, not sure what it was.

I was definitely not impressed with Costner as his father and they definitely didn't come up with a very strong father son connection between his human father or Jor el.

 

I did like the use of Russel Crowe as an intelligent AI but the movie seemed to make Krypton insanely advanced in some ways and backwards in others.

They seem to have complete molecular control with antigravity and AI but people still need to work for some reason.

Craft seemed to fly with jets and were susceptible to Supes eye rays which just seemed weird for such an advanced race.

They also never explained why all other outposts died off as though it were obvious.

 

There wasn't a great deal of chemistry between Lois and Clarke, bizarrely enough the only incarnation of superman on the screen that got it right was that Goddawful

New Adventures of Superman with Dean Cain and Terri Hatcher. The only version to portray Lois perfectly.

 

I don't know seems like another film that will ultimately be completely forgotten, even though I've seen worse I've definite;y seen better.

[*Jess♥]

I disagree on that point. this movie feels to me like something that might be remembered for a long time.

it gave me a very strong feeling of some of the original movies. particularly supergirl.

 

I also did see the lack of chemistry though.. but my main gripe with Lois was her hair colour. each time I have seen this movie, when she comes on screen my first thought is "April O'Neill".

[*YoungGuyver]

I agree with the shaky cam.  To me, shaky cam is to be used to help make something seem a bit realistic.  Like when there's an explosion, or in a mocumentary.  I can understand the desire for realism here, as I think they wanted the audience to take the movie seriously- but it was just so distracting.  What they were filming was so beautiful, but the shakyness got in the way.  I'm wondering if they were worried about being considered as just another popcorn movie, and did something 'artistic' to separate it?

 

I think this movie seems a bit soulless and cold because of the emotionally monotone quality.  Again and again characters and extras are reacting to events with a sense of awe.  Again.  And again.  And again.  We have a tragedy, and people look at the result with silent awe.  There was no real emotional voyage.  I loved the beginning with Russel Crowe because we had more than just those reactions (Crowe was in the section with chroma-tone emotions?).

[*V Guyver]

In all honesty, the movies action scenes felt more like Dragon ball, Acting was alright, but the plot was utterly stupid. The drama and imagery was well done. The movie was a bit too long, but the segmented story actually allowed it to be digested nicely. We didn't need half the throw away humans, and we didn't need religion, though it was a nice attempt at the religious stuff, just not done right. The passage of time as Superman dealt with growing up and the flaws of humanity were well done. Of course the entirely best part of the movie was that scene between Superman and Zod. 

No Superman movie has raised as many questions and anger or praise about that one single 5 seconds when the battle ended. 

[*Jess♥]

I haven't seen any of that, could you give us a summary or a link?

[*V Guyver]

Well they do have this one fight scene. Just to get you an idea of the action. 

[odin]

As always, just my opinion but I really don't see the problem of the fight scenes being very similar to Dragon Ball I mean Superman's power levels ARE those of Dragon Ball characters so it would make sense to make it as flashy as possibly but at the same time allow the viewer to watch what is happening which is more than I can say for most of the fight scenes in Nolan Batman films. I won't say that the movie was perfect cause it was not but I was able to enjoy it a lot, people keep complaining about how utterly irresponsible superman is and "out of character" he is with all the destruction that happened in metropolis and some even dare to compare it with the avengers film, seriously?  first off:

 

1. Superman is a total beginner, he mastered his flying just a few moments before Zod appear so he does not have the experience of handling large threats and avoid casualties as much as possible much less against opponents of equal strength to his. Which brings me to my next point.
2. The invaders are Kyptonians, aliens of equal monstrous strength to super who do not hold back while the aliens the avengers fought where easily destroyed against someone like hawkeye and Black widow so there really is no surprise that Supes was not able to reduce casualties as much as he should have, yes he could have flown away or thrown his opponents to a to a safer place but do you honestly think that Zod and his cronies would have fallen for that? they would have just stayed or gone to a populated are and caused as much destruction as possible cause they know that humans are Superman's weakness also.
3. I really don't want to hear senseless rage for Superman Killing Zod, YES it could have been executed a lot more better then it did like perhaps the family was trapped in the rubble instead of just standing there waiting for the head beam to hit them but ZOD HAD TO DIE EITHER WAY, there was no way to imprison him and he was not going to stop until he destroyed the earth and thus forcing superman to do something that he will probably never do again but left him with a lesson that Pa Kent's Death SHOULD have taught him which was that with all the power he had there ware some things he could not stop.

On a side note regarding the Christian Symbology, some people keep mentioning and even the directors seem to be comparing Superman to Jesus for some weird reason but to me he seems more like Moses if anything even more so this version of superman.

[*Jess♥]

v-guyver, I don't understand why you posted that clip.

what does it show? how does it show the anger of people concerning superman and zod?

[odin]

Also, I wanted to give my 2 cents on what Faora about evolution since I find it funny cause to my understanding evolution is a way a species adapts best to it's surrounding through generations yet this version of Krypton is the very opposite of evolution, yes..they are technologically advance and all that but the moment the decided to give specialized roles to each newborn AND make it so they can't help but do those roles they pretty much stopped moving forward in my opinion which is what Jor-el wanted to get across by having superman naturally and thus showing that free choice, diversity or versatility and morality can help a species like humans to move forward cause we keep trying to better ourselves. like ryuki said what faora mentioned was more on the line of survival of the fittest. 

[LordSpleach]

And she was boasting at best anyway.

[*V Guyver]

v-guyver, I don't understand why you posted that clip.

what does it show? how does it show the anger of people concerning superman and zod?

Just to show case how a fight scene actually is in the movie without revealing too much of the plot. Frankly some people had hated the fights scenes for being to dragon ball. I can't really post plot spoilers. It ruins the movie experience. 

[*YoungGuyver]

I don't understand what morality has to do with choice.  Perhaps survival of the fittest, but even there debatable.

I didn't mind the fights scenes so much.  Just the shaky cam.  I was surprised that they pretty much announced to the world that Clark Kent is Superman.  Kinda felt weirded out by it.  It makes sense in Iron Man thought.

[*V Guyver]

No, they are still clueless as to who superman is. But having louis lane know from the start... and his entire hometown is rather weird. It's not like he can just kiss all of them to make them forget. 

[LordSpleach]

I like the fact that Lois found out pretty quick. Lois has always been a smart reporter but the comic writers always made her uncharacteristically retarded when it comes to Superman and his horrible disguise.

[*YoungGuyver]

The whole fight scene in Small ville, one would think even the government would clue in as to who was the focus.  Once they started an investigation into the details of everyone involved in the alien invasion, they might realize that Clark Kent doesn't have a valid birth certificate (hehe).  It just seems so soon and sudden.  It's like Batman's back being broken by Bane in only the third movie already.  Or having Venom in the third movie already.  Too soon to happen, story wise.

 

Yeah, I guess I can agree to Lois.

 

I wonder though, how does that kissing power work?  Is Kal El venomous?  Do his lips secrete mnemonic venom?  And if so, how would this affect date rape allegations?

"I had her permission your honor, I swear!  She just can't remember!"

Seriously, who came up with this power?  How would a power like this ever develop?

[Larz Zahn]

Into forget-me-breath.

that and several other powers were all in superman2. He had several farfetched abilities.

Including:

1. The kiss.

2. Telekinesis.

3. Multi clone jutsu.

4. Some sorta thin plastic film shield. (which i guess is more tech than power).

5. Time travel (first movie)

6. Perfect hair.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Larz Zahn

[*V Guyver]

1. Apparently it's physical contact making his telepathy stronger. Since the movie scene, it's been removed from all continuity. Though I always assumed that Lex Luthor would figure out Superman's secret identity, only for a wet kiss to instantly make him forget. The process repeats every week, and Lex vows revenge after the kiss because Superman turns him down for a date.  
2. He still has that power along with telepathy. But it's no longer as random. He can only use on occasion on external bodies, and he has a constant one projected around his own body that helps with invulnerability. 
3. Not sure which clone version you are talking about. Was it that dreadful time he split into a red and blue superman? God, that was awful!
4. His clothing is apparently still indestructible because of the super thin shield, or his telekinetic. 

5. Well he is almost as fast as the flash, but that scene in the movie has terribly silly. Reversing the planet's rotation does not reverse time. In fact i'm pretty sure he cause a set of planetary disasters when he reverse the planet, killed everyone on it. The ending to the movie and sequels were all in his head as he drifted in space absorbed in his own escape from reality.
6. That's his telepathy again, not only does it make you think his hair is perfect, but that Clark Kent looks like nobody else. 

The military in the end of the movie were still trying to figure out who he is, even sending satellites and drones to follow him. I think they are mostly this stupid because of, A: The troops who encountered him were all killed off. And, B: The script is stupid.