How many of the Guyver fans believe in God?

[*Jess♥]

I respectively disagree...

Science doesn't directly dispute religion, some People may try to use it that way but science was originally created by the church to better understand the world god put us in. And really, whether you believe in god or not shouldn't effect your ability to reason and think logically unless you are close minded.

And IMO science makes the world grandeur through comprehending the wonders of existence. Like without science we would never have beheld the beauty of deep space, nebula's, etc. We could never have imagined parallel worlds. We wouldn't have electricity, etc.

So I hardly believe science makes the world clinical and dull but rather opens up the limits of our imaginations and comprehension.

precisely zeo, which is why i included the word SOME. :wink:

I know that a lot of science and scientists work alongside religion and their beliefs.

what i was complaining about was the few individuals who have the behaviour that i outlined.

this is why I personally like to read about scientific ideas and methods... that is, until i feel science can go no further.

I feel science is quite primitive compared to powers of imagination and intuition.

science is far behind in EVERYTHING.. dogs noses far outstrip science in detecting ability. our minds work so much faster than any super computer.

[*Jess♥]

Centuries ago, believers used to kill unbelievers by burning them at the stake.

They don't do that anymore... but I swear, you People are still going to kill me.

Have pity.

yeah, those People were pretty closed minded and would attack anyone for thinking for themselves and speaking against the grain.

they went with what authority told them they should believe and if anyone disagreed with the 'truth' or the 'facts' they were victimised.

I am so glad that today, People are free to believe what they want to believe. they are free to choose their faith and come up with their own ideas.

I thik if People were like that these days, then authority would be pushing science (or perhaps christianity) and you would be the one burning me at the stake because i don't accept everything scientists or indeed the church, spoon feed me.

do you think i made a fair observation here?

[Salkafar]

Ask me after we atheists have burned our first believer at the stake.

[*zeo]

You do know simply owning a bible could get you executed in countries like North Korea? Where Religious activities are considered a security threat and is punishable with anything from imprisonment and torture to public execution.

One disturbing instance of an underground church that was discovered had its members subsequently placed under a road grader.

China did similar things, though slightly less extreme, when they first turned communist and tried to purge themselves of anything distracting like Religion. Even today they do nutty things like... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle2194682.ece

So Atheists are hardly non-violent either, really sometimes it seems People just need an excuse to be cruel and it doesn't matter what that excuse may be except what may be the most convenient at the time.

[*Jess♥]

I just think it's about control

those i power want to stay in power so they force People to believe certain things.

I believe that now in china, they have their own VERSION of christianity which is heavily edited.

[Salkafar]

North-Korea has Juche which is not atheistic but a bizarre religion in and of itself. Frankly, the same goes for Stalinism, Maoism and even Nazism. It's technically atheist, but it has the structure of an absolutist religion.

It's not Christianity per se I have a problem with. It is any system which places itself above the most basic rights of the individual.

It's just that so many People make Christianity out to be perfect, and it is so deeply flawed.

Why do I say it is deeply flawed? Because it is so illogical and so morally untenable, and so sneaky. Why sneaky? Because it deems any and all criticism the work of the Devil. Adversely, any evil perpetrated in the name of its God, be it big or small, becomes good by virtue of it.

You'll probably say that that was Inquisition stuff, that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore. But it does. All that's changed is the scale.

Example: Ted Haggard. How did a man like that rise to such a position? By playing into the lowest instincts of his audience. "It is good to hate certain people, because they are evil." Oh, he may not have said it like that, but you know that is what it means.

Why did I choose Ted Haggard? Well, prior to the revelation, any Christian would probably have said the Holy Spirit was guiding him. He was so inspiring and succesful, after all. But apparently the Holy Spirit did not manage to keep him from what he did. What happened there?

How is it that People are even capable of telling such enormous lies in the name of God, without God intervening? And given that he does not intervene when it happens, how do you tell whether a preacher actually is acting in the name of God?

Anyway, I don't trust any system which claims it knows the absolute truth about anything. That's why I go with science. Some Christians I know will go "that article is full of probably's and most likely's, doesn't seem very convincing to me." But that is exactly what makes it convincing. Reality is not perceived in absolutes. Our eyes are not keen enough.

[*Jess♥]

North-Korea has Juche which is not atheistic but a bizarre religion in and of itself. Frankly, the same goes for Stalinism, Maoism and even Nazism. It's technically atheist, but it has the structure of an absolutist religion.

It's not Christianity per se I have a problem with. It is any system which places itself above the most basic rights of the individual.

It's just that so many People make Christianity out to be perfect, and it is so deeply flawed.

Why do I say it is deeply flawed? Because it is so illogical and so morally untenable, and so sneaky. Why sneaky? Because it deems any and all criticism the work of the Devil. Adversely, any evil perpetrated in the name of its God, be it big or small, becomes good by virtue of it.

You'll probably say that that was Inquisition stuff, that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore. But it does. All that's changed is the scale.

Example: Ted Haggard. How did a man like that rise to such a position? By playing into the lowest instincts of his audience. "It is good to hate certain people, because they are evil." Oh, he may not have said it like that, but you know that is what it means.

Why did I choose Ted Haggard? Well, prior to the revelation, any Christian would probably have said the Holy Spirit was guiding him. He was so inspiring and succesful, after all. But apparently the Holy Spirit did not manage to keep him from what he did. What happened there?

How is it that People are even capable of telling such enormous lies in the name of God, without God intervening? And given that he does not intervene when it happens, how do you tell whether a preacher actually is acting in the name of God?

Anyway, I don't trust any system which claims it knows the absolute truth about anything. That's why I go with science. Some Christians I know will go "that article is full of probably's and most likely's, doesn't seem very convincing to me." But that is exactly what makes it convincing. Reality is not perceived in absolutes. Our eyes are not keen enough.

I'm not sure if you even want to accept any answers to your question, but I will provide them.

before I go on, I want to make it clear to you that I do not follow any specific religion, rather I tend to explore all matters of faith and decide for myself what i want to believe.

first off your question about Ted Haggard. well it's realy quite siple. God gave man free will. the very first story in the bible illustrates how god places things like temptation before us to test us and it is our free will that enables us to learn. god is perfect. but man isn't. we are all imperfect beings and god does not control us and make everything 'right' and 'good' because that would completely remove the whole point of giving us free will.

Ted Haggard continued like he did because of free will, but it didn't last forever, he was found out and People helped him. you say that god didn't do anything about it, but do you think that perhaps god could have caused the events that lead to him being found out?

how do you tell whether a preacher actually is acting in the name of God? trust your own instincts/judgement. the wonderful thing about being human and having free will is that you get to choose what you believe and what you don't believe. just because a person is christian it doesn't mean they are going to unquestioningly believe everything every pastor ever tells them. I've spoken to many christians and they all have a very different perspective.

for example, there are those that believe the book of genesis literally, word for word. there are others that believe the book fo genesis is a great big metaphor. the bible can be vague at times and that can be a good thing because it allows People the freedom to choose whcih parts to take literally, which parts to discard and which parts to hold true.

"Anyway, I don't trust any system which claims it knows the absolute truth about anything" I don't think that is a fair thing to say.. god knows the truth about everything, but religions don't. books are vague and have been through lots of translation. if you ask a scientist what ark matter is, they will tell you " i don't know what it is, but it is there" and that is tantamount to saying "god made it"... at least it depends which way you look at it.. but saying that god made it, isn';t really giving an answer is it? because god made everything. so saying "god did it" is tantamount to saying "I haven't got a clue" so basically I'm not sure youcan say that any religion can claim to know everything... in fact they hardly know as much as science does about a lot of things.. but then it's like zeo said.. science was created by hte church as a tool to better understand gods creation.

at the end of the day, it's all creation. it was either made by god or the big bang. perhaps god IS the big bang? who knows..

it seems to me that you are attacking a characiture of religion.. but maybe you haven't explored all hte different facets? Maybe I'm wrong.. but that's the ipression i get at this stage.

to reverse engineer though...

I'd like you to consider your personality.. your thoughts, your consciousness. maybe you have an idea what that is, maybe you don't have a clue.. maybe you never considered it.. but let's look at it as a series of electromagnetic pulses flashing over your brain.. if you consider what evolution and the start of life is supposed to be according to science.. one great big random accident. like a coplex explosion of sorts.. yes i have thought all hte way through the creation of life, through amino acids, single celled organisms etc.. well if it is all random yet complex... then our conscioussness is basically a large complex explosion that works together to give you conscioussness.

also consider that your body is made up of millions of single celled organisms that have ovolved alongside each other into a symbiosis that create a multicelled organism.

so if those cells had any awareness. do you think they know about your consciousness? are they fully aware of your thoughts? probably not, you are simply too big and advanced for them to comprehend..

what if all these organisms called humans and animals, are actually part of a larger form of life?

how could you be aware of this lifeform? this larger conscioussness?

then if you consider genetic memory... in some ways, it is perfectly logical to consider that humanity forms part of a massive consciousness that has been aware since the dawn of our race, or even the dawn of life. and our genetic memory is what forms this conscioussness' memory.

I don't think hte concept of God is that unusual or illogical.

perhaps some of teh teachings are a bit odd. maybe something you might not find that believable... but then remember that the bible and other books are very old, and full of metaphors. and a lot of christians are not stupid and do recognise that the book is full of metaphors.

[*V Guyver]

North-Korea has Juche which is not atheistic but a bizarre religion in and of itself. Frankly, the same goes for Stalinism, Maoism and even Nazism. It's technically atheist, but it has the structure of an absolutist religion.

Any religion or organization that makes it a crime or simply taboo to question aspects and ideas of the faith are inherently flawed. The same goes for any religion or organization that claims that some person elected to or who buys the office is the emissary to any one god or gods or the sole arbiter of the nations laws. As you become aware of the control and restricting of open ideas or worse... voicing them, then you should immediately know something is horribly wrong. I take the same horrible examples held in those above mentioned ideals and organizations and apply the same ridicule to religion in order to avoid the same narrow minded trap so many People fall prey too. Hence my love of this quote by an unnamed individual in regards to religion...

"Blind loyalty is a virtue in a dog, but it is an offense in a human being"

I'm a little sleepy here, so my mode of thought here is possibly irregular, and I'm partially not sure what I'm typing. My point is that many religions have basis off those above mentioned groups. In fact, I'd wager my life's worth that they'd all eventually ended up becoming prominent religions over time. Hitler would of no doubt ended up being German Messiah of a Christian based religion with militaristic and aggressive Muslim like ideals (Hitler often commented that he wished German's followed a Muslim religion for favorable views in war.)

Stalin's government basically had him as a living god... much like a Pharaoh who treated his subjects as slaves of labor, willingly working them to death, all in a while they prayed for the pharo...err I mean Stalin to save them from the death camps he sent them to... of course they had no idea they were their to work and die from his orders.

Mao wanted to be revered as much as a god, and in a sense he and his family are treated as if royalty in china.

The Kim's ARE gods as far as anyone is concerned in north Korea.

Now, if you look back in history, you got the same things appearing throughout various peoples. The Popes of old were merciless men acting like gods on earth in gods name. Kings and emperors were no different from Divine beings, and one could never question ideas, laws, war, or even faith for that matter. All this to be god or control god.

Today's question about god is as much about him existing at all as much as it is about choosing to believe who's message about god you should follow.

[Razell]

I believe in God. I have to say, though, that much of Christianity has given Christ a bad name, Inquisitions, Crusades, the slave trade, conquering other people in the name of God. A lot of people blame God or Christ for the things that some-called Christians do, but they're wrong. People who claim to be Christian and go out and hate and murder and the like know less about Christ and the Bible than a tree stump. Christ said 'Love your enemies,' not 'Love to kill them', and 'Love your neighbor', but some people don't listen (I'm not referring to the current wars one way or the other) All sorts of crimes have been commited, from pedophile priests to the old practice of castrating young boys to keep their voices stable and high for church choirs (A violation of God's laws, I might add, not to mention a monstrous crime against humanity itself) These things are a slap in the face to those who honestly try to serve God, and to God himself. Many so called Christians don't even care about the Gospel, they preach their own political or social views, like that Rev. Wright. If Christianity had just stuck to the Bible instead of adding politics, philosophy and the arrogance of some, it would be a lot better world. Say what you like about Christianity, but it's not Christ's will any more than it is yours that some churches act so badly. I saw this expression some where, 'God, save us from your followers.' But they're not God's followers if the are acting against His will laid out in His Word.

It's not just Christianity, of course, radical Islam, Hindus and their Caste bigotry, even mostly peacful religions like Buddhism have had their share in war, cruelty and atrocity.

By the way, the Bible does not blame Satan for everything, it brings out we have free will and make our own choices. He doesn't make people sin. Galations 6.7 says that we reap what we sow, not that we reap what Satan sows. We're imperfect, we sin on our own, Satan might put the forbidden fruit out there, but it's our choice whether or not we eat it. Satan is a great force of evil, but he's not responsible for everything. People might try to say 'The Devil made me do it,' but they did it themselves, they're just too cowardly to take responsibility for their actions. I have to agree with you on part of that, though, Salkaffar. People will blame Satan or God, their parents or even their genes to justify or excuse their own actions, like I said, that's cowardly and wrong. I don't know if there are any churches out there that do teach that Satan is responsible for what we do, but if there are, they're wrong.

Another idea that's popular that I disagree strongly with is that God causes natural disasters, accidents, etc. When Katrina hit New Orleans, it wasn't God's wrath, like some fools said, it was the luck of the draw. When 9/11 happened, it wasn't vengeance for tolerating homosexuality, like that pinhead tv preacher said, and it wasn't Satan, either. it was a bunch of sick lunatics who place no value on life. If someone's drinking and driving and gets in a crash that kills someone, do you take God to court? No, you take the drunk to court, because they're responsible for their own actions, not God and not Satan. Was it God's fault New Orleans was built on a swamp and is sinking like a stone? Was it God's fault that Bin Laden hates everyone who's not the same kind of lunatic radical he is? Some things just happen, sometimes they could have been prevented if people had done things differently, sometimes there's nothing you could have done, but it's not God's fault.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Razell

[*V Guyver]

I totally agree with you on this, it's just that Satan was created specifically as a Scape Goat for God and people. I don't think it was ever meant to be the opponent of god. The concept of Satan is broadly designed with many interpretations, and yet very central powerful views around it. They don't know Satan's nature, but are not open to any ideas outside of "Hate his evil ass because he hates God" or something like that.

He's a boogeyman that does or doesn't serve god. If God does something bad in the world, it's not God's fault, it's Satan because he tempted man. If you you are weak of moral strength or give yourself into temptation or vile acts, it is either Satan's fault, or you denied God. In any case, Satan is usually viewed in an unfavorable light, but God isn't.

Jews used to give a duality to God, that he was loving, but also strict and harsh to those who disobeyed his command and ways. If you ask me, this God is the one that makes more sense, but sure as hell confuses me as to why you serve a God that tests humans by telling you to sacrifice your sons, or will kill every human being in the world if he's angered enough, or instruct his people to commit genocide (Ironic that Jews wiped out entire cities of men women and children in the name of god, and left no soul alive.)

That brings me to a point, some Christians blamed the Jews themselves of the Holocaust or claim it fake. They say that the Jews sinned against god for not accepting Jesus, so God punished them. As absurd as it may seem, it's how some people react.

I can understand if people yell at me for pointing this out, especially if it's pretty insulting to your beliefs, I don't intend it to be like that. In my research and search for God I've come across this all and I find it very weird.

[Razell]

I'm not insulted, everyone has questions.

Yeah, the people who killed Christ have been dead for two thousand years, I don't see how anyone can rationally blame modern Jews who probably aren't even related to the killers, who are, as I said, long dead. Christ was a Jew, as much as some people try to deny it, all the Apostles, Mary, Paul, all Jews by birth and even by faith until becoming Christian. Still, I don't like the other side of the coin either, where people try to say that the Romans were behind it all and the Jews just bystanders. I can see why people would want to say that, because, as you brought out, stupid, hateful people wrongly blame modern Jews for for an ancient crime, but we can't change facts because we don't like them, certain Jews had Christ killed, not all of them by any means, nor were all jews condemned for it, but Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin weren't innocent bystanders to evil old Pilate, they were behind the whole thing. They're dead, they've paid for their crimes, modern Jews have nothing to do with it. Their race had nothing to do with it, they were jealous of his following and had him killed. I wish people would just think about and realize how insane it is to be a Christian and an Anti-Semite, Christ was a Jew! Sorry, it's just a very aggravating thing.

As for Satan, I believe he exists as an entity, but people who blame him for everything miss the whole point, the Bible says sin came to us through Adam, not through Satan. Adam chose to sin. Satan does evil things, yes, but humans do most of them on our own, and he can't force us to do anything. People who blame Satan for their crimes are just trying to shift blame from the real criminals, themselves.

[*V Guyver]

yeah, it's kinda weird to have religious people who go around hating Jews but told to love Christ... who was a Jew. Then there is Muslims who hate none Muslims, but Muhammad was himself a pagan for the first 40-50 years of his life. Then he embraced christian and Jewish ideas and wanted to convert him to his version of God, yet instead many are taught to hate them.

Also, it's kinda interesting that the life of a Cow, Rat (Yes there are rat worshipping Hindu cults out there), mocroorganisms, cats, and other animals... are considered more valuable then a fellow human being. There are people who would rather willingly kill another human being then harm some of these animals.

I can understand why we worship them and all, and the laws forbidding their deaths. Yet, going so far as to kill a person who is similar to you in form over some animal you have no sentimental connection is incredibly unique.

[*sojiki]

This is how i looked at things of this nature ..

Iam real.. iam here.. i can see my self touch smell... ectect.

Iam not in a book . saying i did great things that no one can prove

Iam was catholic went to a cath school for 7 years.. most kids in school became disbelivers soon after seening the real world.. after school.

IF god is real.. he has a real twisted humor.. of casuing floods and killing his creations..

if He gave us the right to chose are path.. and when we chose wrong.. he flooded us he got angry when we killed his son.. but are we not all his children should he not get angry for us and fix the problems humanity faces.. or will he wipe us out again...

iono iam not to keen on the whole i dea its too blah belive it or you going to hell type of deal .. its all just random stuff....

i like evolutions and were its going were on the right take to discovery..

and if anything god would be a alien and we would be his science project he forgot about long after he got his B- from his teacher..

[CustodianGuyver]

This is how i looked at things of this nature ..

Iam real.. iam here.. i can see my self touch smell... ectect.

Iam not in a book . saying i did great things that no one can prove

Iam was catholic went to a cath school for 7 years.. most kids in school became disbelivers soon after seening the real world.. after school.

IF god is real.. he has a real twisted humor.. of casuing floods and killing his creations..

if He gave us the right to chose are path.. and when we chose wrong.. he flooded us he got angry when we killed his son.. but are we not all his children should he not get angry for us and fix the problems humanity faces.. or will he wipe us out again...

iono iam not to keen on the whole i dea its too blah belive it or you going to hell type of deal .. its all just random stuff....

i like evolutions and were its going were on the right take to discovery..

and if anything god would be a alien and we would be his science project he forgot about long after he got his B- from his teacher..

LOL So true. After that B- the god done his next project and created unit g aka Guyver God Relic. God bio boosted and became a nightmare that destroyed the whole universe. :lol:

I wonder if there is a unit g that would work on a god and give him 100x power.