How many of the Guyver fans believe in God?

[*Del]

I was wondering about that.And by God i mean a specific god,a god with a name,doesn't matter if it's the Christian one.I believe that there is a high power that created all.Now i'll go a little aside from this topic and recommend you the movie - Zeitgeist *torrent link removed by admin, because it potentially infringes copyright* (oh man it has 58000 seeders...) .It's about the Christianity,does it really exist,does Jesus really exist?The movie changed my believes.The next part that the movie talks about is the war.The airplane crash on September 11,the WWI,WWII,the war in Vietnam and how that impacted selected group of People that are currently governing from the shadows our world.And finally - where's humanity going to.If you're troubled by my words then definately check out the movie.And don't talk in advance if you haven't seen it.I was a believing Christian before i saw it,but now things are different.And it opened my eyes for new things.In short the movie talks about world conspiracy.And i didn't know and believe that there's such a thing untill i saw the movie.

[*zeo]

You could also watch it on http://zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm (Google Video)

Basically it's a propaganda video about conspiracies. Most of which if you follow conspiracy theories you would already know. Personally I think the movie is total BS, I put it right up there with moon landing was rigged theories never mind we got a mirror up there to reflect lasers that couldn't have put itself up there, but that's just my opinion.

Here's a review you could read, http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/06/jay-k...-reviews-z.html

[*Jess♥]

when talking about religion being a hoax or a conspiracy.. I think that People have taken the truth and twisted it.

but at its core, I think religion can be pure.

[*Del]

I suggest that People should watch this movie and then comment.Hey Ryuki did you see The Secret?And what's this "EXTRA CARE" in the upper left corner.I haven't seen it before?

[*Jess♥]

I suggest that People should watch this movie and then comment.Hey Ryuki did you see The Secret?And what's this "EXTRA CARE" in the upper left corner.I haven't seen it before?

I apologise for not watching it first.. you did say that and i blatantly ignored it. my bad.

I mean no disrespect but to be honest, I do not like watching conspiracy theories too much.

I will try to watch it later on this evening.

I have watched half of 'the secret'. I really appreciate you telling me about it. I don't take it all literally.. I think it's to do with psychology mostly.. if you believe something strongly, you will find a way to make it happen. but I do believe in psychic energy so I think there's a lot of truth behind it.

(not the turning a statue into gold part)

The EXTRA CARE part.. that will appear all the time in hte "Theories and Ideas" forum. i moved this thread to this forum because this can be a sensetive subject.

[*V Guyver]

Saw the thread, then watched the whole thing. A video, like so many others talking about a real life version of chronos.

It's a flawed work, and it will not be believed by the masses or even noticed. You'll only get a few intellectually stimulated People who will either agree or ridicule it.

I agree with many of the concepts in the movie, but it lacks in much backing, and rips so much out of other projects that it's nothing new. All it has is a nice presentation, and lots of interesting topics and theories that have been sourced from other works and ideas. It's a great video overall, just wish they made some added comparisons and threw in details like Nixon's removal of media control limits. Maybe even comparisons to the roman coliseum to today's entertainment, and government with that of Romes and France's prior to it's revolution. Heck, it should even of pointed out that the War of Terror is a simple replacement for the USSR, Nazi Germany before that, Central Powers Before that, and Britain before that. Maybe they should of mentioned how many of these alleged elites are actually distant relatives from europe's royal families, mainly England's.

In any case, I don't care. Even though what most of the movie says is true (to a degree at least) things wont change, because People fear change in power, are distracted in life, and anything countering it would be considered anarchists in the eyes of the media. Frankly, it's too much of a bother to remove what us already in power and not easily identified. Even if we remove the ones we know from power, or they end up degenerates due to constant eventual inbreeding (they would eventually inbreed if they really are that greedy, as it would keep the wealth and power in their respected families)

[Goes into Fake Cronos Elite mode] Actually, a lot of People wouldn't mind having these elite around. The elite (If actually true) are inherently smarter (not counting bush, though his stupidity could be an act to prevent blame on him) then any of us thanks to their education, wealth and social standing. They have succeeded in uniting various countries that would normally be at constant war in exchange for a few small wars, and a couple of world wars. They have rapidly advanced human technology and standards of living by their methods, thus allowing blissful ignorance, gluttony, and degenerates to thrive while still allowing society to function pretty well. Although human life can be considered precious, killing a million to advance billions of lives isn't such a bad thing on paper, especially if it eventually leads to a unified world where wars will possibly no longer exist. Also, the application of such technology like chips would streamline the world and it's society, virtually ending crime, and making lives more efficient. Slavery... no actually, the term better describing it is Serfdom[.b]... has it's benefits... as it could potentially mean almost everyone on the planet would be on an equal standing, with only the elite being different, but their numbers would be so few, that it would be barely noticeable for most of humanity to complain about the quality of life.

[*BananaKing]

In the words of the immortal warrior of awesomeness, Kevin Smith:

"People took a good idea and based a belief structure on it. Its not important what you have faith in, but that you have faith. I don't belive in God, but I have a good idea..."

-Kevin Smith

I think we can all learn a lot from that

[*Del]

Saw the thread, then watched the whole thing. A video, like so many others talking about a real life version of chronos.

It's a flawed work, and it will not be believed by the masses or even noticed. You'll only get a few intellectually stimulated People who will either agree or ridicule it.

I agree with many of the concepts in the movie, but it lacks in much backing, and rips so much out of other projects that it's nothing new. All it has is a nice presentation, and lots of interesting topics and theories that have been sourced from other works and ideas. It's a great video overall, just wish they made some added comparisons and threw in details like Nixon's removal of media control limits. Maybe even comparisons to the roman coliseum to today's entertainment, and government with that of Romes and France's prior to it's revolution. Heck, it should even of pointed out that the War of Terror is a simple replacement for the USSR, Nazi Germany before that, Central Powers Before that, and Britain before that. Maybe they should of mentioned how many of these alleged elites are actually distant relatives from europe's royal families, mainly England's.

In any case, I don't care. Even though what most of the movie says is true (to a degree at least) things wont change, because People fear change in power, are distracted in life, and anything countering it would be considered anarchists in the eyes of the media. Frankly, it's too much of a bother to remove what us already in power and not easily identified. Even if we remove the ones we know from power, or they end up degenerates due to constant eventual inbreeding (they would eventually inbreed if they really are that greedy, as it would keep the wealth and power in their respected families)

[Goes into Fake Cronos Elite mode] Actually, a lot of People wouldn't mind having these elite around. The elite (If actually true) are inherently smarter (not counting bush, though his stupidity could be an act to prevent blame on him) then any of us thanks to their education, wealth and social standing. They have succeeded in uniting various countries that would normally be at constant war in exchange for a few small wars, and a couple of world wars. They have rapidly advanced human technology and standards of living by their methods, thus allowing blissful ignorance, gluttony, and degenerates to thrive while still allowing society to function pretty well. Although human life can be considered precious, killing a million to advance billions of lives isn't such a bad thing on paper, especially if it eventually leads to a unified world where wars will possibly no longer exist. Also, the application of such technology like chips would streamline the world and it's society, virtually ending crime, and making lives more efficient. Slavery... no actually, the term better describing it is Serfdom[.b]... has it's benefits... as it could potentially mean almost everyone on the planet would be on an equal standing, with only the elite being different, but their numbers would be so few, that it would be barely noticeable for most of humanity to complain about the quality of life.

What you say is exactly like Cronos.If there are no wars,that doesn't mean that People will be happy,living under some regime.

[*V Guyver]

What you say is exactly like Cronos.If there are no wars,that doesn't mean that People will be happy,living under some regime.

[goes into fake chronos elite mode again] well that really depends on the regime. Alexander the great wanted to conquer the entire world, but by being so greedy and ambitious, his subjects prospered. The same can be attributed to the elite in power. Eventually, uniting the world would lessen world conflicts and better resource management would occur. They would no longer have a need to start wars or human suffering, just maintain their wealth and power base by making sure they always keep the world at debt and it's regions in constant financial competition. Of course, you could claim they would still make life unbearable for the common man, or possibly even plan to continue selective suffering of People to maintain a common enemy to manipulate people. But this is why having fictional villains to fear over is ever the most useful too. Anyone countering this helping hand to a united humanity is of course both stupid, and an anarchist. Voltaire was right to point out that the masses were nothing more then a bunch of ignorant rats that needed the lead of a strong ruler to think for them since "Common sense is not so common." The world needs more Alexander the Greats, more Cao Cao's, more Napoleon's, more Philip IV of France, and many like minded individuals.

[returns to normal] it's good to pretend to be the person favoring this type of world. In all seriousness, there is no telling how the world would be life under the control of such few. It's a gamble, and thus vary dangerous, and we've seen the results of families controlling the world for too long. Often leading to decay, war and the near destruction of the civilization. These People are either like Nero or Caligula if they truly exist...

PS: Nero was a good leader, he's got an undeserved reputation.

[Guest Serious Senryaku]

Most historical leaders you hear about were either asinine or did something devastating, lol. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely", eh?

As for the whole God issue, I keep an open mind. I'm not a disbeliever, but I don't believe in organized or structured religion. I'm a sucker for controversial issues though.

[*Youngtusk]

Watched the video, very interesting ideas and points, but i'm too skeptical to fully accept all its conclusions.

On believing in God, I don't doubt that theres a creator of the universe, I just think we're arrogant to believe that we know anything about it or anything about how it wants us to act. I mean, we don't even understand gravity and dark matter, how could we be so conceited to think we know anything about the creator of these mysteries?

Ultimately, organized religion for the most part is a fraud in my eyes, with no reasonable backing.

But on the idea of a One-World Government, yes it may bring about peace and human efficiency and progress, but its forced peace, forced progression. You're talking about controling a species of conscience beings like slaves. I think its a cop-out. If we can't earn peace ourselves as a society, we don't deserve peace. If we've come so far as a civilization to acknowledge natural rights and freedom and liberty and the like, and we can't progress ourselves to achieve these ideals on our own as people, individuals, then we deserve nothing more than to blow ourselves up into civil and social recession. Coercing the masses into submission is cheating, we don't deserve peace as a species if were too stupid to not make it work ourselves. I'd honestly preffer an extinction to totalitarian 'progress.'

[*V Guyver]

You know, you may be right about us not earning it... but if you think about it. All of the worlds progress has mostly been achieved by the ambitions of the few. Even if these Elite are horrible monsters, they may in turn give us a better world through their ambitions. Alexander the great loved to conquer and take over the world, and did everything he could to build a great empire. It may not of been his intentions... but he opened up a lot of ideas, trade, understanding of different peoples by intermixing his soldiers with different races/peoples. They in turn prospered up until shortly after his death.

I would prefer and naturally would like to have a world where the common man was responsible, but even the USA had to rely on several incredible men to get these ideas out. The only reason we turned out as well as we did is because they were remarkable human beings (with some exceptions since they didn't few some People as human.... unfortunately). Their moral character was usually very impressive despite their flaws and standard thinking from that era. Look at Henry Knox, the guy lost all his livelihood when his bookstore was burned down, but he still went through the efforts of paying off the men he was in dept too despite it, and he could even of disappeared and avoided paying it thanks to the war. Later on he carried that same moral compass into government and paid off all of the countries debts and turned around the economy. Lot's of People were against this, and simply wanted to erase and ignore the debt, but he insisted in paying due's.

Unfortunately, there may not be a single Elitist out there with the same moral compass, and even if they have one, they could easily be stupid or misguided.

[*Youngtusk]

You know, you may be right about us not earning it... but if you think about it. All of the worlds progress has mostly been achieved by the ambitions of the few. Even if these Elite are horrible monsters, they may in turn give us a better world through their ambitions. Alexander the great loved to conquer and take over the world, and did everything he could to build a great empire. It may not of been his intentions... but he opened up a lot of ideas, trade, understanding of different peoples by intermixing his soldiers with different races/peoples. They in turn prospered up until shortly after his death.

Just because Elites can fuel progress doesn't mean we should seek progress through elitism. Rationality, science, and compassion can also lead to progress. It may be a more difficult road to travel, but the rewards will be that much more gratifying. To know that we as a People conquered over the forces of old and evil, stepped above the superficiality that is fed to us, and promoted progres through education and empathy. This is true progress, because the movement is based on values that are carried by more than just an elite few who can be killed or assassinated. You can't assassinate a revolution.

[KING GHIDORAH]

Yes, I'm a Christian, Not to offend you or anyone or anything, Del, but I have two much faith and trust in the lord to let anything sway me.

Edited July 21, 2008 by KING GHIDORAH

[Salkafar]

Its not important what you have faith in, but that you have faith.

An incredibly dangerous sentence. Muhammed Atta had faith that he was doing God's will.

I do not believe in the existence of any god. In my experience, People who hold such beliefs without doubt tend to lack information.

There does not have to be a creator, or even a first cause. Yes, complexity can be emergent.

For People who look towards religion, or just the idea of a God as a moral support, I would argue that it has done very little good in the past. People who claim that they have the Holy Spirit to guide them have proven capable of some remarkably ungodlike things. Like Ted Haggard.

I have too much faith and trust in the lord to let anything sway me.

This sentence scares me. 'anything' includes conclusive evidence. This says you would keep believing in that God, no matter what. Regardless of facts or logic. What would you do in order to be able to keep believing?

I think this is more about emotional need than factual truth.

And People in power who benefit from large numbers of People following a religion which says they should obey their leaders...

[Guest xenogelion]

i blieve that the true name for gigantic exceed is god Guyver

[*Jess♥]

I do not believe in the existence of any god. In my experience, People who hold such beliefs without doubt tend to lack information.

I think for the most part this may be true, but let us not forget the People who start out believing that science is all that there is and that the idea of spirits and a god like entity is plain daft. then through experience of life and almost miracle-like events.. People can gain faith in something.

there is a lot of stuff that can not be explained by science.

my personal favourite is music.

I can't think of any evolutionary advantage to music and dancing.

there's so much... and we do take a lot for granted... it's only when you really go beyond what science can prove or disprove that you can really gain an idea of what some people's faith actually is.

but then.. what takes one person a lot of thought and analysis to discover can just be taken on trust by another. and the person who believed a certain thing without all the groundwork.. they had an easier time and they hold the same conclusion.

if we can say one could be right, how can we say the other can't be right?

it's mostly a question of believing others without questioning.

and there are a lot of things that People wil believe without question that are not solely restricted to religion.

anyone watch the tv show QI?

i blieve that the true name for gigantic exceed is god guyver

thanks for that

[*zeo]

QI is a good show, http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/qi/

my personal favourite is music.

I can't think of any evolutionary advantage to music and dancing.

Well of the things science can't explain, music and dancing aren't really among them. Birds for example sing and dance for benefits like mating. Human behavior can similarly be traced back to basic motivation. We're just more complex than other animals, like we can work together to make complex music or dance, so music and dance also helped express and develop empathy, language, and cooperation, as well as help developed our creative potential that eventually led to culture and society. Rather it is how it all works that we're still vague on as things like the source of creativity is still a mystery but science is working on those answers.

For things science really can't explain right now, here's a sampling...

http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg18...make-sense.html

Not to mention the supernatural in general and anything we don't have enough information on to form even a basic hypothesis on. Science is based on the processing of information, so anything with no information is something science can't explain. Course that can change as information is gathered and assimilated but some things like the existence of god may never truly be answered.

[*Jess♥]

Well of the things science can't explain, music and dancing aren't really among them. Birds for example sing and dance for benefits like mating. Human behavior can similarly be traced back to basic motivation. We're just more complex than other animals, like we can work together to make complex music or dance, so music and dance also helped express and develop empathy, language, and cooperation, as well as help developed our creative potential that eventually led to culture and society. Rather it is how it all works that we're still vague on as things like the source of creativity is still a mystery but science is working on those answers.

I respectfully disagree.

I don't believe that the fact that birds etc sing and dance.. explains how humans have music and dancing.

I don't dance to attract a mate. I'd be having the opposite effect. and i most certainly can't attract any mate when i dance alone in my room to music i like.

in terms of natural selection, evolution etc.. music and dancing would not exhist because it doesn't give any advantage in natural selection.

I already cosidered how music and dancing exhists i nature.. and i realised that it goes against evolutionary theories.

this is my faith. I have not yet decided upon what i believe music and dancing is, or where it comes from... but i have plenty of ideas. and science is not among them. science is simply not advanced enough yet, so i have to rely upon philosophy, my imagination and instinct.

[Salkafar]

Ryuki, you practically made my argument for me.

I already cosidered how music and dancing exhists i nature.. and i realised that it goes against evolutionary theories.

This is silly. The content of that statement is completely silly. There are even human peoples today who use music and dancing to gain a mate. But in nature, it is mostly birds who do this.

in terms of natural selection, evolution etc.. music and dancing would not exhist because it doesn't give any advantage in natural selection.

Evidently, it does!

You are very much using your own intuition here, and that is not science. Our intuition is not scientific. It is primitive. It is the intuition of a hunter-gatherer. We aren't anymore, but our instincts haven't caught up yet.

I find your argument frankly outrageous.

[*Jess♥]

This is silly. The content of that statement is completely silly. There are even human peoples today who use music and dancing to gain a mate. But in nature, it is mostly birds who do this.

you quite obviously are not taking into account the rules posted at the top of this forum.

that is extremely rude and disrespectful.

these are my beliefs and you have no right to belittle them.

by all means ASK me about them if you don't understand , but you have no right to attack my beliefs when you obviously have not thought about it in ways that I have.

---------------------

as for the rest of your post,

you have every right to your own opinion.

you quite obviously put a lot of stock into science, but i have moved past that.

and this forum is not called the science forum. it is theories and ideas. science is an option but it is not the rule here.

take care what you post and remember to respect other peoples opinions and beliefs. I won't tolerate you being rude to People in this way.

(I'm talking about others as well, your earlier post was potentially rude to others)

[KING GHIDORAH]

This sentence scares me. 'anything' includes conclusive evidence. This says you would keep believing in that God, no matter what. Regardless of facts or logic. What would you do in order to be able to keep believing?

In The Good Book it is stated that there will be times where People will try and get you to deny Christ, it all false, fake, not logical, etc etc.

It Just Adds fuel, along with many other things that is stated in the Good book, that has comes to past in my life or the People lives that are around me.

I think this is more about emotional need than factual truth.

Nope.

Edited July 23, 2008 by KING GHIDORAH

[*Jess♥]

In The Good Book it is stated that there will be times where People will try and get you to deny Christ, it all false, fake, not logical, etc etc.

It Just Adds fuel, along with many other things that is stated in the Good book, that has comes to past in my life or the People lives that are around me.

I love this.

it's like.... People will very often challenge you with things they claim to be illogical.

the thing i dislike about some science and People who adhere to it, is that it tries to turn the world into some clinical, dull place.

for example,

who says christ didn't walk on water? do we have a video of him NOT walking on water? it's very possible for Christ to have walked on water. People can come up with whatever explaination they want, end of the day, nobody can prove each way, so whatever answer we come to requires faith.

arguing using science requires a lot of faith i science. People seem to think that it doesn't require faith because science is the ultimate truth and nothing else can exhist. but if you deny things that science cannot explain, then you deny that you can think. because science cannot explain how the mind works. how conscioussness works, scientists have some ideas, but they don't know for sure.

science cannot xplain what a person will experience upon death.

science still cannot explain the existence of matter fully. it doesn't correlate between relativity and quantum .. so if you deny things science cannot explain, you deny exhistence itself.

if you have never seen any miraculous events, then fine, you can't always believe what other People say. you have to make up your own mind.. but the People who hav expereinced miraculous events, hav their faith based onthat. they don't always deny things that can be proven. I don't deny when things can be proven without doubt. but i also won't deny something that happened to me because sceince says it is impossible or improbable. thing is, I experienced it and i would rather trust myself and my own eyes and mind than some group opf boffins.

if I don't trust myself and my own eyes, i become a robot.

it reminds me of that bit in 'the fly'... where brundle is talkig about the flesh and how the machine doesn't get excited about the flesh.

I think science is a great tool to explain how things happen, but I hate it when science tries to TAKE AWAY from the other wonderful things that it can't explain properly yet.

I think some ideas of evolution are good as mechanisms, but I don't believe that evolution in itself is capable of DRIVING change. teh weight of many evolutionary 'advantages' is just not great enough to warrant a continuation of said trait. I link this along with genetic memory.. I think that things like genetic memory and sharing of memories in this fashion enables species on some level to collectively decide what direction hte species should take. I also believe that some of this decision making power is linked to spirituality.

well actually, I thik that most of this decision making power is spiritual, but that's just my opinion.

oh heck, this topic has been derailed completely.

maybe i should split it?

[*zeo]

the thing i dislike about some science and People who adhere to it, is that it tries to turn the world into some clinical, dull place.

I respectively disagree...

Science doesn't directly dispute religion, some People may try to use it that way but science was originally created by the church to better understand the world god put us in. And really, whether you believe in god or not shouldn't effect your ability to reason and think logically unless you are close minded.

And IMO science makes the world grandeur through comprehending the wonders of existence. Like without science we would never have beheld the beauty of deep space, nebula's, etc. We could never have imagined parallel worlds. We wouldn't have electricity, etc.

So I hardly believe science makes the world clinical and dull but rather opens up the limits of our imaginations and comprehension.

[Salkafar]

Centuries ago, believers used to kill unbelievers by burning them at the stake.

They don't do that anymore... but I swear, you People are still going to kill me.

Have pity.