Aptom,Zoalords,Guyvers, now here's an idea for you!

[Guest ALKENPHELL]

Hello there, i've been thinking about this for a while now, if you look at Aptom and his ability to absorb other zoanoids powers, then look how he is evolving with each new power he takes into himself, is it me or does he look more and more like a zoalord! dont forget how he looked when we first met him, just like a Guyver only not as powerfull. my idea is this, the Guyver is a highley adaptable bio wepon, with some powers just like a zoalord, ie gravity control, teleportation ( when the Guyver first appears ) telepathy, ect. now if aptom does eat a zoalord and absorbes it's powers, then i beleve that he will become the Guyver only without a control medal. ie the perfect battle creature, able to adapte to any oponant or enviroment.

this then leaves the question of what wood happen to aptom if he tryde to eat a Guyver unit with a control medal, wood the control medal stop aptom and absorbe him or wood it be the other way around????

what do you think

[*Jess♥]

in book 25 aptoms stated that he is unable to absorb a Guyver or a zoalord.

the CM will stop him absorbing a Guyver and the zoacrystal stops him absorbing a zoalord.

[Super Existence]

Although I wonder when he found that out, because his plan back in book 8 I think was to absorb a zoalord and then mount miakami happened. He seemed to have discovered that a zoacrystal fends off his assimilation ability without having tried it.

[Toku Warrior]

Either that or he learned it when Khan turned him to stone. Khan touched him and maybe Aptom tried at that exact moment to absorb Khan but was unable to.

Now if a Zoalord were to have it's zoacrystal ripped out (i.e. Guyot) then there's nothing stopping Aptom from having one hell of a feast. Of course, Aptom could try and get a Zoacrystal for himself the next time he and Sho kill another zoalord.

[*Kenji Murakami]

That sounds like something he'd try; and of course once (if) he finds out about Guyot, he's probably going to go after him. That'd certainly be something to see.

[xtro guyver]

That sounds like something he'd try; and of course once (if) he finds out about Guyot, he's probably going to go after him. That'd certainly be something to see.

funny you should mention guyot as when aptom was think bout absorbing a zoalord the Manga showed him thinking about guyot, sadly after tha Alk showed up and gave aptom the scare of his life

makes you wonder if it was advance forshadowing much like how book 9 showed a blurred image of khans dragon form long before it made its full debut

[Guest ALKENPHELL]

funny you should mention guyot as when aptom was think bout absorbing a zoalord the Manga showed him thinking about guyot, sadly after tha Alk showed up and gave aptom the scare of his life

makes you wonder if it was advance forshadowing much like how book 9 showed a blurred image of khans dragon form long before it made its full debut

that's a very interesting idea, now that guyo is no longer in posetion of a zoacrystal it wood make him the perfect target for a hungry aptom to feed on! but what i was trying to get accross was the fact that if aptom does eat a zoalord ( guyo ) then dont you think he wood become the truest form of what a Guyver realy is, a battel creature that is completly out of controle from any out side force??? i.e just like unit 0, and like arkenphel, with nothing and no one able to control him/them. and there for make him the next possible arkenphel.???

[*Jess♥]

well technically... using your own logic, he already is "guyver".

he is already out of control so I don't think he needs a zoalord DNA to make him "guyver"

that'd just make him more diverse.

in actuality, zoalords are not necessarily the most powerful type of combatant... the thing that sets a zoalord apart is their telepathic command and the barrier technique.

any zoalord dna would not really increase aptoms ability that much because i believe these techniques require a zoacrystal.

so in order to make himself that much more powerful he would need one of those.

[Jukai]

well technically... using your own logic, he already is "guyver".

he is already out of control so I don't think he needs a zoalord DNA to make him "guyver"

that'd just make him more diverse.

in actuality, zoalords are not necessarily the most powerful type of combatant... the thing that sets a zoalord apart is their telepathic command and the barrier technique.

any zoalord dna would not really increase aptoms ability that much because i believe these techniques require a zoacrystal.

so in order to make himself that much more powerful he would need one of those.

Actually, I'm not so sure.... Does the Zoalord need a zoacrystal to use telepathic commands and their barriors...? Or do they just need the Zoacrystal to regulate their energy so that the powers don't take tolls on their bodies?

If this is the case... if aptom does absorb a Zoalord without a crystal, would his life suddenly be in danger if he began using that power/

[*Jess♥]

it's possible that these powers exhist without a zoacrystal but perhaps require enormous amounts of energy that only the zoacrystal can provide.

at least we have seen that anything lower than a zoalord cannot use these abilities.

so it could be possible for aptom to use these abilities if he had some way of storing such a large supply of energy.

of course there was teh ability to partially shield from hte megasmasher by using the EM field.

it seems that was teh limit of this ability...

I think the barrier technique seems to be EM.. at least teh guyvers barrier seemed to be EM. and teh ability was very similar. so maybe the zoalords use EM and so it is just a really far more powerful version of what aptom used. therefore showing a need for more power to create it?

hard to say.

[Jukai]

Actually, since you mentioned it, I am a bit more sure that the Zoalords were processed with this power, they just need the Zoacrystal as an energy source, or to regulate that energy. Aptom/Zx-Tol have a weaker version of the shield, and Aptom can't use it unless he's absorbed a lot of Zoanoids, and Zx-Tol was going to die incredibly soon after his battle with the Guyvers... so clearly the power takes a toll on regular Zoanoids.

Maybe Aptom would be able to use his powers if he had absorbed enough Zoanoids.

edit: can aptom absorb a regular, unprocessed human?

Edited May 5, 2008 by Jukai

[*Jess♥]

my initial guess is yes.

if he can break down the cell proteins of a zoanoid, he should be able to break down the cells of any organism.

although.. it could be the case that his cels take advantage of the possible instability caused by transformation.

I will explain what I mean by that...

in order to transform into a zoanoid, I believe that the cells must have a certain mechanism to break down their own proteins and reconstruct them over a fast period of time. if aptom can tap into that mechanism, he can break down the proteins and instead, reconstruct them as he sees fit.

perhaps this is why zoanoids seem to mid-transform when aptom starts to use his ability.

( some ramotith when he protects mizuki and others before alkanphel arrives at relics point)

so.. if this mechanism is not present in normal humans.. then aptom has nothing to take advantage of to rapidly break down the proteins.

actually thinking about it now...

some more thoughts..

i recall one moment when aptom is thrown off an intended victim by use of electrical current. if zoanoid transformatin is triggered in hte brain then nerve impulses may be responsible for telling the cells to break down. perhaps this is how aptom tells the cells to break down.. because initially the cells would remain intact with all their normal immune responces. it wouldn't make sense for them to be vulnerable like that.

if this is indeed the method of zoanoid transformation.. it would make sense why zoanoids dissolve when killed. and also how a zoalord could command them to dissolve just by a single thought.

all it would require is afor a nerve impulse to tell the bodies cells to dissolve teh proteins but instead of reconstituting, they simply stay dissolved.

thanks for brining that up jukai, i haven't enoyed thinking about somethng like this in a while.

[*Kenji Murakami]

That's an interesting theory, Ryuki. It definately sounds plausible.

[*zeo]

i recall one moment when aptom is thrown off an intended victim by use of electrical current.

When was this? I only recall when Darzerb repelled Aptom with a blast of heat?

Interesting theory though, personaly I think it's just that Aptom doesn't want to kill civilians. After all he has tried to absorb G1 at least once, or more precisely Khan did while controlling Aptom's body as Chaos Aptom, and was only stopped because of the CM.

It could be because he absorbs by acting like a virus and infecting his victim, literally taking over from the inside out. I think that's how he described it, he even calls the ability parasitic.

Though that doesn't rule out your theory, as perhaps the cells have to be in a certain state in order to be assimulated?

Alternatively it could be just a compulsary reaction, basically the last attempt of the victim to resist the absorbsion process since the zoaform is their stronger form.

[Jukai]

I believe it was Neo-Zxtol that forced Aptom off with an electric current.

[*zeo]

You mean during the mid-air battle?

I'm pretty sure that was heat too, the scene a bit earlier when Neo Zektole destroyed Aptom's Bio-Missiles was definitely with electricity but when Aptom tried to absorb him it looked more like Darzerb's heat blast aura.

Unlike the missile scene there was no visible electrical arcs, I also don't think Takaya would have him use the same ability twice in a row since he was demonstrating that Neo Zektole had the powers of all 5 of the Team 5 Hyper Zoanoids.

However, I can see how it could be thought of as an electrical attack, though that doesn't apply to Ryuki's theory since Aptom couldn't absorb NZ because of the anti-bodies that both prevent the process and inhibits Aptom's metabolism.

Perhaps it was another scene?

[Jukai]

Yep, yer right, he used heat instead of electricity. I'm not sure what scene he's referring to then.

[*Jess♥]

it was what jukai suggested. I got that impression although i was going from memory. i recalled incorrectly.

oh actually i remember elegen tried to throw hi off with electricity but he failed.

i must have got mixed up.

[Jukai]

I still like Ryuki's theory. The virus idea is cool but it's too "all-encompassing," ya know? The virus would have to both eat away at the Zoanoid at rapid fire speed and simultaneously assimilate the genetic structure of the Zoanoid's DNA into Aptom. That really seems outside the reach of what a virus really does, which is just infect cells. There could be multiple viruses and proteins working, I guess.

But giving Aptom the ability, by touch, to send nerve impulses to the brain to reconstitute the DNA of Aptom and merge it with his own DNA seems slightly less unlikely. If this is the case though, than Aptom probably CAN assimilate humans.. it's just a much greater effort. Just like the Zoalords CAN control regular humans, it's just incredibly hard and tiring. The only reason I could lean towards Aptom using some sort of virus to do his absorptions is because Zxtol had 'anti-bodies' to protect him from being absorbed by Aptom... usually the term 'anti-body' refers to something that fights off foreign infection, not to prevent the brain from acting in any sort of way.

I guess it actually could be a COMBINATION of the two theories. Aptom, by touch, transmits a virus that messes with the synapsis in a Zoanoid's brain, telling the cells in that creature's body to break down and bond with the DNA in Aptom's body. This also could be why when Aptom absorbs someone, they become very veiny... it may not just be the process of absorbing nutrients from their bloodstream, but also PUMPING IN a large quantity of virus inside a Zoanoid. This also makes more sense on why a Zoacrystal and a Guyver unit will protect the wearer; it's not fighting off infection but PROTECTING THE HOSTS BRAIN!

I'm not sure I remember this scene correctly (actually at this point I feel I could be making this up), but I remember that Aptom puts his hand on the Guyver's head and you see the hand sink in, and get all veiny, as if he's pumping the virus into Sho. Then, he pulls his hand away when he realizes he can't merge with the Guyver. It's because the virus couldn't muck around with the brain, cause the brain is connected to the Control Medal, and more or less, the Zoacrystal.

Wow, overthinking things IS fun!

[Super Existence]

I always thought the emulation system worked like John Carpenters the thing. Aptoms cell takes over the foreign cell literally eating it. It then imitates the cell to avoid the immune system, splits in half and those cells move onto the next targets.

Aptom absorbed Derzerb just by touching him ZX-Tole then destroyed the original but Aptoms cell were already in his body taking him over from the inside out.

It must have something to do with his cells copying themselves and using the original as base matter as a single touch can cause a takeover? Also Aptom seems able to encode his intelligence at the molecular level, so with a single touch you have a duplicate Aptom.

Also Aptom himself said that when he takes over an organism he keeps there abilities and the left over matter can be transformed into energy, so if his cells have all they need instead of copying themselves continuosly they break down the foreign cells into proteins maybe

Some of these theories maintain that Aptom has to be there in full to do this job were the Manga thus far has shown that a single aptom cell can take over an entire organism.

He also took over 3 DEAD combatants, surely their cells would be incapable of the initiate stages of a zoaform changeover being a dead cell. Aptom just used them as base matter to copy himself.

It should also be noted that in an interview with Takaya in Animerica I read a long while ago that Aptom was inspired by John Carpenters 'The Thing'

[Jukai]

Well, see? This is what I get for overthinking.

[*Jess♥]

well some things i feel are important -

aptom rebuilds his body through ontogenesis. it seems that aptoms cells have a natural tendency to create a fully aptom body.

I think that since zoanoids break down when they die they would not need to be alive for aptom to access teh cells because it does it automatically anyway. also, when a body dies the cells are still alive. the cells will only die when they stop getting nutrients. right? yes teh heart would have been stopped, but cells have a little bit of internal fuel, I think. I'm no expert obviously.

so the appropriate electrical impulses given to those cells will activate the cells abilities.

another thing here is that when khan put the fake brain into aptoms head.. it fooled the cells. teh cells did not rebuild aptoms brain.. but since the factor was even suggested, it means the cells are independantly able to analyse brainwave signals and/or nerve impulses and make a decision based upon wether it is aptoms or not.

so aptoms cells simply being present in a body is enough for those cells to influence the biomatter around them?

I do hnot agree that a virus is sent sraight to the brain because when aptom grabbed zxtoles leg he managed to blasted his leg off to save himself.

I think an antivirus or antibody can work fine because I think that what it would do is to identify aptoms cells and stop them from sending their electrical impulses to hte surrounding biomatter.

[*Kenji Murakami]

I tend to think your theories his the closest to what's been demonstrated, Ryuki. I do like hearing other speculations, though.

[Jukai]

Ryuki, I really like your theory, but if Takaya said he's a John Carpenter fan... well, since Apton and "The Thing" are pretty much identical in how they operate, then I'm guessing the scientific explanation in The Thing is going to be Aptom's cover story.

[Super Existence]

I think also that a lot of scientific explanations that come from the different books can sometimes be inaccurate.

When Aptom disguised as Gaster touched Derzerbs arms and Zx-tole destroyed him, as Derzerb begins to be assimilated in the Viz books he said:

'Aptoms emulation system was already seeping in.'

In the Chuang Yi:

'He's already taken control of his nervous system'

From doing the scanlations I think it's especially difficult to narrow down excatly what Takaya means as Japanese is so difficult to translate.