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Sorry, this topic doesn't belong in the GWOTG section. So Topic is locked. Please repost in the Science section if you really want to discuss it.

Yes, whoever posted that didn't take into account the difference between the US system and the metric system, which is strange considering the one just above the energy quote plainly shows the difference. TNT detonation energy is only 4.184 in kilogram measurement, while US Tons are based on pounds.

Just goes to show you can't trust everything posted on the web, gotta have your own database for figures or at least cross reference more than one or two sites.

Another thing to consider is whether the energy the CM draws from hyper space is for the unit as a whole or strickly for regeneration? After all we must remember the Unit was not originally designed as a weapon and it was mainly the Guyver effect that made it become a weapon.

I.E.> In the WG fan fiction the HSL was thought up when we considered this very discrepancy FOG3 has brought up now. The main difference from a normal unit was the assumption that a normal unit only draws energy upon activation and to regenerate. Anyway that's my theory from around nine years ago and still going.

Actually, TNT detonation=4.2E6 J/kg and a kiloton=907,029.4785 kg's.

So 1 kiloton=3.795011338*10^12 Joules

Which divides FOG3's figure, which he got from calculating energy needed to generate the mass of G1 in the 11 hours it took in the Manga using the E=MC^2 formula, to 156.3056775 kilotons worth of energy per second.

This in no way tells us the power available for the Mega Smashers however as it only tells us the total energy available for regeneration and not how much energy goes to each weapon. Remember also Takaya is not a scientist so using real world numbers would not necessarily work for the Manga.

If the Guyver really generated that much power it would be a lot more powerful than even the Gigantic has shown itself in the Manga.

The estimates used in the WG.com fan fic is based on observation of how much damage is caused by the Mega Smashers and the rough estimate of how much energy it would take to cause that using real world numbers.

Well, just for perspective, in geological terms that gives Anubis Mega Smashers a Volcanic Explosivity Index(VEI) of between 6 (~200 Megatons) and 7 (~1 Gigaton).

That's enough to alter the world weather with one blast for say a year or so.

Extremely powerful but nowhere near the power needed to blow up the whole planet, let alone vaporize it.

Fun fact... In the Encarta Dictionary:

-Guyot: guy?ot, n

underwater mountain: a flat-topped underwater mountain, commonly found in the Pacific Ocean and considered to be an extinct volcano

[Mid-20th century. Named for Arnold Henri Guyot , (1807\endash 1884), a Swiss-born U.S. geologist and geographer.]

-Guyver: guy?ver or gui?ver or gy?ver, n

Australia, New Zealand affectation: an affected or unnatural way of speaking or behaving that is intended to impress other people or to gain somebody?s favor (informal)

[Mid-19th century. Origin unknown.]

Though some real people have it for a middle name, such as composer Britton, Dorothy Guyver [1922-?] USA

Aptom falls under the area of evolution by assimulation. If a Guyver did the same thing and altered its form accordingly then it too would be evolving by assimulation but that would have to be by design. A standard unit will not gobble up other life forms.

No a normal Guyver can't turn off its governor at will or subconsciously. The only bypass is by either design or if the governor was damaged. It is lacking imagination and underestimating human potential to think the only way a Guyver could become more powerful is through some form of evolution.

Actually it was the other way around.

Besides the WG DF on W'Kar was made with the perspective of the limited time the WG characters spent in the GWOTG universe. It was never meant to be an exact reflection of the character, just estimates derived from the WG cast observations. So the 100x regeneration was just his average, combining normal and hyper space rates.

Also remember W'Kar was well on his way to his next evolution so his specs would of course have started fluxuating by then.

Thanks McAvoy.

Basically Warbyrd13, like I said before on this topic, you are free to make up any rules you want when making your own fic. We only argue the point here because this is the science section of the board and not the fan fic section.

Yes the Gigantic is an example of the Guyver effect and can thus be classified as a form of evolution but you must remember the Gigantic is still a seperate entity from the Guyver unit and the Guyver unit itself has not changed. The unit is alive but it is also a device and was not originally intended to be a weapon, at least not to the level the Guyver has achieved. Besides in most cases a weapon is replaced and not upgraded. Evolution is after all random and could easily create the equivalent of a downgrade, besides the points McAvoy mentioned as well.

The Unit self defense mode is always active but we only notice it when Sho either fails to protect the CM or is unable to like when his brain was ripped out. The unit will basically protect the CM at all cost and acts accordingly. If no threat is perceived then it will do absolutely nothing.

A lot of the Guyver's abilities are held back by the human host, which still thinks and fights like a human and not as a Guyver. When the AI is in control, it simply holds nothing back and thus makes the unit seem more powerful when in reality it is just using the full potential already there.

Humans are after all conditioned throughout our life to protect ourselves from over doing things and physically harming ourselves. A Guyver host has to get over that conditioning before they can freely use their full potential as Guyvers.

Btw, the manga series is still running last I checked and I am presently waiting for the next book to come out. Though Yashika Takaya isn't exactly talking to the fans so it be rather hard to ask him anything.

The examples you mentioned in Wetworks was simply the armor adapting to the users. Remember it was originally designed for vampires so once they learned to tap the armors full potential it adapted to their combat styles and manifested their wills as it would have done for a vampire user. That doesn't fall under evolution as it was abilities the armor already had and just needed to learn to use. Yup, it was a cool series though.

As to adding to the original concept and story, many of us are already doing that. Feel free to join in.

Yes, they are very versatile.

But as for drawing conclusions from the movies, don't!

The movie version does not accurately reflect the powers and abilities of a Guyver.

You should take a look at the Manga Azaar, or at least the anime.

The only difference from the anime/manga to the movie version, aside from being less powerful, for the swords is that the anime/manga shows the swords vibrating and glowing. Also the movie swords were straighter than the anime/manga versions. G2's swords for example extend in a manner similar to a curved saw blade.

Bend and lengthen does not necessarily mean the swords are changing shape. I'm not saying that you are entirely wrong though, just that the mechanism may not work exactly like you're thinking. Remember aside from extending and retracting the swords have never been shown to change shape or even change angle once fully extended. They don't even bend.

True but the hyper sensors are so integrated with the host senses that any sensory enhancement of host's own senses may seem simply integrated with the hyper sensors. Unfortunately none of the Guyvers have been put into a situation that a specific sense can be shown to be enhanced that is not covered by the hyper sensors.

On the other hand, we've stated that guyver's can't evolve, unless designed specificly to do that, Right? Ok, show of hands.. Which Guyvers do we know that CAN evolve?

W'kar

Angel

BloodStorm

any others that I'm missing?

It is questionable if Angel really counts, her unit is simply adapting her to fit the type of host it was designed for. Once it is done she would stop changing.

But there are two or three characters you did not list

It's not really a big deal since most lifeforms don't evolve during a single lifetime but rather over many generations. Beings like W'Kar and BloodStorm are highly unusual. Also remember Guyvers are based off humans and we only evolve over generations. . .

Glad you like the fics Warbyrd13 but to clarify you are using a very loose interpretation of evolution. Simply becoming a better fighter is not evolving. So technically only the Gigantic example can be classified as a form of evolution, though the initial bonding of host and unit can also be considered evolving it stops from there and can be reversed with a unit remover.

Wetworks uses an artificial nanotech based symbiotic armor originally created by vampires. It's function is by design and not evolution.

Yes both Venom and Carnage, Carnage being an evolved variation of the Venom entity, are alien symbiots like the Guyver organism but unlike them the Guyver organism is enslaved by the Control Medal so it can't evolve or do anything on its own while the Control Medal remains in control. Only if that strict control is somehow hampered or purposely programmed to not fully control the Organism would a Guyver be able to evolve over time.

One thing: The Guyver?s swords do change shape.

And you got that information from where?

Thancrus swords do not retract and are probably inferior to the Guyver version but you may be right that the basic mechanism for generating the vibrational energy could be similar. But there are many ways to generate a sonic shockwave and the Guyver is clearly more advance than a Thancrus so it may employ a different method.

As for shape changing, other than the Guyver ability to retract or extend the swords, which does not necessarily mean the swords are changing shape, there is no indication that the swords change shape. Also there is no evidence of a shape matrix considering even the Thancrus sword retains its shape when cut off and acts like a solid when colliding with other vibrational swords. A shape matrix would have some give and would have shown the swords bending under stress. It is more likely the micro pleats are just a vibrational surface layer. Just like the vibrational hairs in our inner ear, which also generates sound, that we use to hear with but the pleat shape allows the vibrations to be focused and combined along the surface of the blade.

Probably the same differences as females and males normally have, which is a very long list and that's just the average differences.

Ideally though a female Guyver would be as you say quicker and more agile. Given a gymnist body type. Females can also withstand famine better than males so a female Guyver would also have better long term stamina.

Well, like Allen said he's a historian, not a scientist, so a lot of what goes into his fic is more for the coolness factor than sci-fi based. Scientifically solid plasma by definition does not exist as otherwise it wouldn't be the 4th state of matter but plasma can be contained and with containment be made into solid shapes. I'm a stickler for accuracy of terminology so I argued a bit with Young Guyver on that distinction but it doesn't really matter for a fan fic. So suffice it to say it acts like a solid when used by W'Kar (think something like the energion cubes from the original Transformer series-under the right conditions (magnetic fields) plasma can act like that).

W'Kar has plasma swords, which in the GWOTG heirarchy is the second strongest(used to be the top) class of swords-next to the plasma type that Anubis uses. The sword type that is placed above Gigantic is Bio-Swords, which is the class that Allen compares to the WG sword type for strength. Plasma is above that in strength but what is not mentioned is how the users power level factors in. So strength indicated for a plasma sword is just its base level and does not take into account how a users higher power level can make it even stronger as it is basically an energy sword and the more energy is channeled then the stronger the sword becomes.

It's really just a matter of energy concentration. As strong as the WG type swords are they don't have the energy concentration of a plasma sword. So a plasma sword can overcome the vibrational energy of a WG sword and cut through it. At least for the first time, as even a normal WG can adapt and use its body shield-similar to how it adapts to enzyme acid-to help deflect the plasma energy but the power of the user also factors in.

So Yes, Dreadnought's swords are more powerful than a normal WG but they are still a none energy type so W'Kar still had an advantage. Also W'Kar was about as powerful as Dreadnought so his swords had a lot of energy to counter. So they were still able to cut through Dreadnought's swords until he adapted and countered the plasma energy.

To answer Azaar, W'Kar has the ability to scan the strength and weaknesses of any opponent from the concentration and pattern of energy they are manifesting. It doesn't always tell him his opponents potential though if they are not using their full power. But anything with Creator tech is basically an open book for him.

Welltall2's and McAvoy's answers are correct for Dreadnought but the reason W'Kar was hard to read was because of the W'Kar element, not because of the difference in tech. Remember W'Kar is all about power and not about technology, while Dreadnought is all about technology.

In the Manga he is dying as far as I can see. Each time he needs to sleep it takes longer to recover. Eventually, unless he can find a way to heal himself, he will one day never wake up and die.

Not directly, it's more a difference in how the unit uses the Gravity Control Orb and how it interacts with the rest of the unit. WG and WG2 units otherwise have identical ratings for their gravity control orbs.

The govenor is there for two reasons.

1) To limit the cars top speed to legal limit.

2) To keep the engine from tearing itself apart since not all the parts have the same tolerance level, so engine never exceeds safety limits. It's basically the same rule as over clocking your computer, sure you can do it but don't expect to last very long.

We may not know what Takaya personally thinks but the Guyver has not changed since at least Guyver 0, and Manga does suggest the units have not changed much since the Guyver organism was discovered long before they came to Earth, so we can pretty much assume that a standard unit remains pretty stable over a time period that entire species on this planet evolve and then go extinct. The Creators may grow their technology but that doesn't mean it necessarily evolves. Remember they are basically a race of scientists so any evolution would probably only take place in the lab or test planet. The technology they use personally must be free of random mutations to ensure reliability and safety. Any change they may want over time can simply be programmed with the CM. Remember evolution is also responsible for diseases and crippling mutations. For a space faring race that relies on organic technology, evolution would only be allowed in research as anything else invites possible destruction.

But I never said Guyvers could not evolve just that they would not do so normally as long as the CM was doing its job. Any machine that follows a predetermined design does not evolve, only when it changes or exceeds its design can it be said to evolve, which btw does not always mean a beneficial change. I also said that writers are perfectly free to make up whatever rules they want in their fan fic right from the start. The only reason this is even being debated is because it is posted in the science section of the board.

So I guess darkguyver is going to have a really long nap

Then you've lost the case. Angel is not a normal unit, any more than the W'Kar unit is, and only exists in the fan fic. What she is going through is mainly the host and unit adapting to each other since it was not originally intended for a human host. Not spontaneous evolution.

'LAN' is a bad term. It's closer to bio-feedback. The CM does control all aspects of the unit, which is merged with the host, so it's pretty much a given that it will dictate how the two would interact but hardwired as it is to the host brain allows it to respond to host personality. So it might be possible for the appearance of a Guyver to change over time but powers would remain the same except for Skill. The human brain is capable of rewiring itself, as has been shown by people who survive brain damage and still live normal lives, so given time a host can learn to control and use the unit a lot better as their brain adapts. Note though to all that this is NOT evolution. Human can't evolve no matter how long we live. That's simply not how evolution works for us. Only through our children can evolution take place for us. However that does not mean we can't adapt. What many of you have suggested is adaption and not evolution. Basically you should look more at the host/unit relation than at either one seperately.

So far the Guyver has produced only two valid cases that can be labelled as evolution.

1) The Creation of a Guyver, merging human host and alien armor to produce a new lifeform the Guyver.

2) The creation of the Gigantic. Guyver organism responding to environment threat (Alkanphel) and host to produce a more advanced battle form.

There has to be something defineably different before a change can be considered evolution. I.E. You wouldn't consider the physical changes our bodies go through during the course of a long life as evolution. Only that they are changes inherant to the nature of our bodies.

Normal units are simply too stable to evolve like that unless the CM memory of host/unit DNA gets corrupted over time. This does not mean a Guyver can't improve over time, just that significant changes are not to be expected unless an outside force influences the unit. I.E. Guyver XT has evolved since his unit has been tampered with and defineable changes have resulted from those tamperings.

Units like BloodStorm are a valid example of a unit evolving on their own since defineable changes occur that the original form could not either have or emulate. So the original Unit is clearly different from what it has become. However, characters like Primitive Guyver are not valid examples of a unit evolving since he is basically the same as when he first became a Guyver. He's just a lot better at using his unit than anyone else.

History note: Pangea existed around 250 million years ago but it was not the first super continent, it was actually the third.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1892869.stm

The Creators supposedly arrived when life on Earth first began so could have been on Earth for over a billion years so the Earth would have changed significantly from when they first arrived, after all they watched the rise of dinosaurs and helped wiped them out so we could show up, but they left only 2.5 million years ago and the Earth hasn't changed much since then.

Both Kronos and the ACTF derived they're advance technology from the Creators. Kronos did it directly while the ACTF did it indirectly through the Grakkens who were using Area 51 to backwards engineer Creator tech, since Grakken tech is more similar to our tech than the Creators it was relatively easy to adapt the technology to create the Green armors and the beam cannons. So aside from having WWIII the world is pretty much the same as the one we know. The most significant difference being the really big buildings of Kronos.

Just clarifying, organic material as we know it is carbon based. But life does not need to be carbon based to be classified as living. I.E. A silicon based lifeform would apear to be a living rock to us. The Guyver CM is also composed of several components so its exact composition is unknown but as far as we know it is not an organic metal and does not have the appearance that organic metals would have. Since it is the control element for the unit it is not likely that it can evolve directly as it must remain stable to maintain control. Evolution by its very nature is unstable.

Sorry but by definition "Plasma is a gas that is so hot that it has ionised. The gas is electrically charged and is affected by magnetic and electric fields."

Pressure can only be applied with some form of containment and is by definition not allowing the matter being contained to act normally. Also if you increase pressure then it will cease to be a plasma because we're basically talking about the vibrational state of matter and pressure counters that. The more energy applied to any form of matter and the more it vibrates but the more pressure applied to the matter then the more the atoms are pushed together and the harder it becomes for the matter to vibrate. The chart YoungGuyver refers to only shows how pressure can alter the transitional point for each form of matter. I.E. changing air pressure can alter the temp for water to boil and change it from liquid to gas.

Just so everyone understands this the universes is based on entropy and started out in a super heated state so plasma is the most common form of matter in universe. The conditions here on our relatively cold planet is not the norm for the universe YoungGuyver, which is what I said before and why you shouldn't think of plasma as strange in any way. It clearly has defineable properties that are different from other forms of matter. Besides, planets make up a very small percentage of the universe present mass.

Yes, plasma can be created by increasing the heat of matter here on Earth but that is the form that matter originally existed as before it cooled down. Remember all the matter on this planet came from the Stars.

The only thing that can be done to plasma to make it seem solid is containment. The plasma itself remains gaseous no matter what as long as it remains as plasma. Sure you can compress plasma until it takes on the other forms of matter but it will not be plasma anymore when you do so. If you don't compress it to that point and you lose containment then the plasma would just spread out like a ionized gas. It would not remain in any one shape without containment unless you provided enough pressure to turn it into one of the other states of matter. For example if you apply enough pressure you can turn oxygen into a metal and it will remain in that state when you remove the pressure. But it would no longer be gas but a solid.

Though there are examples of matter exhibiting more than one state of matter simultaneously but these are extremely hard to make and only occur under specific conditions and with specific combinations of elements. Plasma always remains in a gaseous ionized state as long as you can classify it as plasma.

So there is no true form of solid or liquid plasma. So any form of plasma based weaponry will need some form of containment if it is to be used as anything more than a super hot flame thrower.

Clarification though, Plasma swords of the type being discussed here are an invention of Allen's GWOTG fan fic site. No character from the WG site has ever used one and is thus not my invention.