zeo

Thanks Zeo. It's great to concentrate on the wrong aspect. I asked why the regular armor doesn't just morph into gigantic form. As related tech, I believe they are linkable.

The wrong aspect!!! I gave you the answer. Forgive me for assuming you would automatically understand it. So fine, I'll spell it out...

Point 1) The Unit's are regulated by the CM so no matter the adaptability of the organism itself it is always regulated to limits imposed by CM. There is no way for it to turn itself into a Gigantic unless the Relic CM was perminently bonded to the host CM.

Point 2) Yes the Relic is made to work with the host unit but the Giganitic is different. It bypassed the normal limitation imposed upon it by its CM by reconfigering it to physically link up with the host unit. A normal Relic CM does not physically merge with a host unit CM

Which brings up point 3) The Giganitc CM is composed of both the outer Relic CM and the center Host CM. This Creates a New CM that lets the two work together to form the Gigantic. The host unit alone would not do this without at least the modified Relic CM. The original center peice of the Relic CM is gone so the Gigantic itself remains incomplete till it is activated on a Host unit.

Point 4) Even with the CM link up the organism's used to make the Relic and Guyver unit have to be compatable to fully integrate with each other. The simple fact the Relic organism can change its shape and function into an armored form by simply linking up to a host Unit CM clearly indicates the organism operates upon the same principle and it is thus only logical to assume both are based on the same originating organism.

A palm pilot can link with a computer. A regular armor was supposed to link with a relic for pilot ability anyway (it was designed to do so).

Sure a palm pilot can link to a computer but you don't see that computer boosting the palm pilot's processing power! It's a lot more than a link going on YoungGuyver.

To start, I disagree with the idea the organism originated from some exotic part of the universe with the natural ability to manipulate dimensional energy. For one there is no corroborating evidence in the Manga and nothing to suggest that would be even remotely true since it clearly shows the Gravity Orb is responsible for this ability and it is not natural to the organism. The confusion I believe is that you believe the Orb is feeding the unit some exotic dimensional energy that can't be used by any normal organism in the universe.

Consider, Strong gravity environments would not expose an organism to dimensional energy and anything near a black hole would run into time dilation that would slow evolution, not speed it up as would be required for this organism to achieve the ability to manipulate dimensional energy.

The Guyver organism in its dormant state is clearly a near formless life form so yes, it is extremely adaptable since it can be made to take on any shape and function because quite simply that is what the Guyver does in order to bond to a host and become a living weapon. Our own developing nanotechnology holds essentially the same potential with biological technology being the next logical step it is easy to see that the Guyver organism, being the raw material for Creator technology, indeed is very adaptable and can adapt to any shape and form required of it.

Now being fed energy via dimensional syphoning by the gravity control orb does not mean it needs to be so exotic as to be multi-dimensional itself. Energy is energy, dimensional or otherwise, the only difference is the shape and form it takes. The simple act of bringing this energy into our 3 dimensional universe would convert it into a form the organism could easily deal with.

The actual process of the Bio-Boosting is another matter but as you can now see my opinion is based not on philosophy but rather on logical and scientific deduction. And I did answer your question.

Oh, for those that still don't get it, the laymen explaination is the Relic made itself a Gigantic by replacing part of its operating core with the Host CM. The host CM is already configured to Create the Guyver armor so it, through the remaining peice of the Relic CM, reconfigured the Relic Organism to integrate with itself and become a merged extension of the host unit. The Relic organism is still part of the remaining Relic CM but it only takes on an armored form because of the host CM and the host unit can't support the increase power of the Giganitc on its own without the added support of the Relic CM so the Gigantic is only possible when the two work together.

I hope everyone can now understands this cause I can't say it any simplier than this. And yes I'm having a bad day.

I even loved how they did that scene just for Toby McGuire, about his back. They had to dress Peter in some flannel thing for half the movie just because Toby had to wear a back brace because all his stunts were taking their toll.

He hurts his back regaining the weight and muscle tone he lost for "Seabiscuit". The stunts just aggrevated the problem for him.

Pretty dedicated actor to put his body through that much strain, training 6 days a week on a busy schedule to regain his Spiderman physique. He just did it too fast and overstrained his back. Though in a way I supposed it helped his acting, in that the scenes Peter has a pained expression was not faked. He just let it all out.

Overall the movie was a typical Sam Rami production but it was well done and came together nicely. Though considering the 3rd film was made at the same time as this one that we can expect even more to come.

Do I really need to spell it out for you Thunder Demon? Reread my post and think it over, you're missing something very obvious.

So since you're question has been answered, nothing left to discuss except fan fiction options and that can't be done here.

So this Topic is now locked.

True, it is most likely due to creative license to emphasis the violence but Takaya could always say they weren't dead yet, just dying, and wouldn't dissolve until fully dead.

Remember G3 was still going through them when Sho took his friends out of the building, while others got crushed and hit by the explosions as the building started to collapse from Agito's well placed explosives, so those bodies may not have been there very long.

Also remember the events in the anime did not occur in the same order as the Manga so time was generally messed up all around.

If the Relic and the Regular armor are composed of exactly the same thing, why doesn't the regular armor just 'morph' into gigantic form? Why does the gigantic armor have to fit itself over top? If it's a question of programing in the control metal, I can understand the 'dual ring' (it's what the katakana calls it) fitting over top, but not adding an entire armor if the material is exactly the same. The Relic must at least be a little different in composition in order for there to be a reason to add on.

IMHO, it is a matter of the CM and as for the reason it goes on top is very obvious. It is still basically a Relic because its CM is a Relic CM. It altered form and function because it linked itself to host CM. Since they are the same organism. They merge easily and the Gigantic becomes an extension of the host unit. There is really nothing to confuse about this as far as I'm concerned. If it wasn't for the Relic CM and the organism being the same then the host unit couldn't so easily integrate itself with the Giganitc and if not for the Gigantic CM the host unit would have simply absorbed the excess mass and we'd be left with just the host unit.

As for the organism being naturally able to cross dimensional barriers, lets remember the rogue Sho monster never left normal space. In fact it clearly states the Guyver Gravity Orb is responsible for the Guyver ability to store itself in hyperspace. So their is nothing to suggest the Guyver organism can naturally cross dimensional barriers on its own. Rather that is a result of the Creator tech the CM makes it form and use.

Dimensional energy from the 'Boost Dimension' has this strange effect of refreshing the organic material. This suggests it's origion is extra-dimensional. Either the parasite was discovered in an Advent expedition to the other dimension, or it was found on a world where some sort of rift between dimensions is strong.

Not necessarily, it is more likely the Guyver organism is simply capable of absorbing energy directly and converting it as needed. Extra-dimensional origin is not required for it to have that capability.

Never thought of the CM being used to control creatures other then the Guyver organism. I always assumed that Relics were Guyver organims themselves because the Gigantic unit is compatible with a standard unit.

I do agree that the CM existed long before the Creators acquired the Guyver organism, it's only logical after all, and most likely did indead use it with other life forms but my personaly opinion is that all their present organic tech is derived from the Guyver organism because of its extreme adaptability.

Mind you this does not mean the Relic and G-Units are exactly the same since the Guyver organism can easily be hybridized with other life forms as was shown with the rogue out of control Guyver monster that formed from G1's arm in the Manga.

But that is a point that me and YoungGuyver presently disagree on. After all it can be argued that the Guyver organism extreme adaptability would allow it to be compatable with any life form so the Relic Gigantic does not really need to be an identical organism. But I do find it more likely that they are indeed based on the same organism but as I stated that is just my opinion.

So until Takaya straightens that point out you are free to decide for yourself if that is or is not the case.

Well more or less it is believed that the unit has an activation switch on the side opposite the CM which brings the organism out of stasis and allows it to detect and then bond to a host, though not everyone agrees on that idea. The organism can also be brought out of stasis if the containment module is damaged. But presently the unit is beleived to bond to any living sentient organism it encounters once unit is activated.

As for DNA detection it really doesn't need incredibly advance sensors. We give off DNA signature all the time, from the skin cells our body sheds every day to the very breath we give off as we breath. So simple molecular absorbsion could give it the needed DNA clue or it could use a spectrum analysis to see the host DNA.

Though it has been speculated the unit may respond to the will of a potential host as in all known cases of Unit activation the host was looking at the CM when the organism burst out at them.

But like I said before as far as a fan fic is concerned you can do what ever you want. . . Maybe have a Relic that creates a DNA lock before releasing a unit to prevent accidental activation by none authorized beings. Imprinting a unit with requesting host DNA. Kinda like putting a finger print lock on a gun before issuing it. Since the CM is always active the lock can simply be part of the containment system so unit won't activate until it detects the proper DNA sequence. Or use YoungGuyver's idea or better yet something you dream up all yourself.

Close enough, what you are refering to is what we call the Guyver organism. Indeed, it was discovered by Creators long before they came to Earth though how they made it into a unit was never described so we don't know if the CM was created for it or already existed since the CM has a secondary purpose for the Creators it may indeed have been around first.

The Guyver organism itself is extremely adaptable and can take on virtually any shape or form. The reason the rogue monster took on humanoid form was because it was the complete blending of host and Guyver organism so the Guyver organism is not only parasitic but it also assimulates what it eats into its makeup.

There is more but that gives you the basic essentials.

You're going to have to explain your question better, as it is the previous answer still applies.

If you mean can it only be used by one host, then yes. Only the Gigantic can be shared and even that is only with fellow Guyvers.

Btw, in case you're wondering, this would be true for even identical twins. The unit can only bond to one host at a time. So must be deactivated and removed from a host before it can be reactivated and used by another host.

But as far as fan fiction goes you can do as you please. Or be creative and make something like an ACEAER unit.

Time is a relative thing in the anime, like the Mega Smashers only take a second to fire but they drag it out for several seconds so you can see the target get vaporized in all its glory.

Examples of real time scenes with the Mega Smashers in anime are the distance shot in episode 1 where the blast is seen going off into the distance and smashing into a mountain/hill. Scene where G3 vaporized Thancrus with a single Mega Smasher. Then there was the scene G1 used Smashers to blast hole to surface when attempting to rescue his father from Kronos.

Another factor is metabolism, Ramotiths are mammal based zoaforms so have a rapid metabolism, while Gregoles are reptilian so have slow metabolism. Enzyme on the other hand is designed to survive bleeding a lot as to maximize its effectiveness against a Guyver so no surprise it would have a prolonged delay before its body parts started dissolving.

Examples of dissolving in anime include those already mentioned by detrun77 as well as the episode G1 and G3 fight regular Kronos troops and kill them before they get a chance to transform in front of his friends home.

Also remember the body has to realize its dead before dissolving. So the level of damage also determines the rate of dissolving. Enzymes are made to take a lot of damage before they die and Enzyme2's arm was neatly sliced off so took longer for the cells to register the damage and thus to trigger the dissolving process.

The dissolving process itself is basically an accelerated decomposition and the byproducts can easily be accidic enough to destroy surrounding material before the process runs its course. So if a dying zoanoid did land on a person it would probably damage if not kill that person in the dissolving process if they did not extract themselves from it in time. But the person should be safe from total dissolving themselves unless they die before the zoanoid finishes dissolving as the process primarily effects dead cells and the enzyme accelerant would then affect the human as well.

Many of the guyvers weapons operate on the principle of vibration causing sound and shock waves and the like and while temperature is simply different states of vibrating mollecules then i dont see any reason why guyver would let someting so trivial as this affect it.

Those same weapons can damage the Guyver so it's not quite that simple. But the Guyver is highly efficient and renders the host virtually immune to external stimuli unless it is sufficient to damage the armor.

Remember the Guyver was originally intended as a universal space armor, so it can naturally withstand temperature extremes which in space can vary by hundreds of degrees. Not to mention withstand radiation and micrometeorites, etc. So yes the armor is one tough cookie, so to speak, and that is before the Guyver effect when bonded to a human.

Just to get an idea, the space shuttle during re-entry experiences about 1650 degrees celcius of heat friction as it hits the atmosphere at 17,000 MPH. At just 1,000 degrees aluminum turns to slag and we all know from the Columbia disaster what happens if the heat shields fail. In comparison the Guyver withstood 3,900 degress without even getting scorched. This would have instantly cremated a human.

Any temp approaching 5,000 degrees can vaporize just about any natural material on the planet, so the Guyver is extremely resilent. It also means that unless the Guyver is made of some exotic form of matter that most of that heat must have simply been reflected like the heat shield tiles of the space shuttle. So little to none of that heat would penetrate to the host. Similarly the host would be insulated from the extreme cold and as YoungGuyver pointed out the internal temp of the Guyver probably never varies from optimum human temperature because of the host brain.

As for what Mizuki felt while hugging G1, the second movie description probably fits best. Feels like leather, acts like metal, and is cool to the touch even after holding a blow torch to it for an hour. What did you think organic space armor would feel like?

Actually I believe that was FOG3's topic. It was part of the reason the science section was created for the board.

Anyway you're assuming zoanoids still have the same potential as unenhanced humans. The simple fact that they are able to tap any of their potential grants them greater efficiency than an unenhanced human who must completely rely on the Guyver unit to unlock that potential. So even if they had the same energy limit as a human, which they don't, they would use the energy more efficiently and that'll give them more bang for the buck. Second you are forgetting the bio-boost process infuses the host with energy as YoungGuyver has pointed out, upon unit activation.

I.E.> Your math is off. So you're conclusion is completely wrong. Just do the math on the energy requirements of regenerating a mass equal to the Guyvers from just a few cells in a short period of time as FOG3 has done and you'll see there is a lot of energy potential you're not even factoring. Simple conservation of energy rule should have made that clear from the start that energy besides the host is part of the equation.

Not to mention this particular zoaform is bonded to a Warrior Unit, which has four times the capacity of a normal unit, without even going into the HSL factor for energy reserves.

So now that we have cleared that up and the fact this is just a rehash of an already discussed topic. Not to mention too many topics can make the board unstable. This topic is now locked.

Hint 1: What made the Atrahasis explode with enough energy to cause a dimensional rip is space time?

Hint 2: Remember the Atrahasis is a combination of WG2 universe and GWOTG universe Creator technology. Just like the Mark II tech there would be mutations and advancements that either technology alone could not achieve.

Yes it would give him a choice, it is after all ultimately a tool and will do only what he wills it to do.

And no McAvoy, Jason does not need to become a zoaform to become more powerful though that is one option for him. The other dimension example you are refering too did not make Jason into a zoaform, he is simply no longer human in that reality. There are more than one ways to lose your humanity.

But like Brian said it's not going to happen so for any further discussion on this topic please take it to the fan fiction section.

This topic is now locked.

What I was trying to say with the Gigantic Zeo, was that if a Boost Armor is infinite in its adaptability and everything, then it would automatically boost the host into a god.

I'm aware of what you meant but like I said upon that point of your statement I disagree with your conclusion. Simply having vast adaptability potential does not mean it will auto boost the host into a god. Even the most adaptable of life forms still has to be limited to its resources.

Besides the potential we are argueing about is what the unit can handle upon bonding to a life form like Aptom. Considering whether or not something like that is even possible. The Gigantic was clearly after the fact and resulted with an already hosted unit.

Adaptability after the bonding process is a completely seperate issue but the Gigantic does show that even after a bonding the unit is still capable of adaptation given the right circumstances. So I believe you are seriously selling the G-Unit short on its potential.

Think of it this way, a G-Unit in its dormant state is like a Stem Cell ready to take form it has near infinite potential but an already bonded unit has already taken a form and function so has less potential.

But other than that you made good points. Only thing I would add is the telepathic organism will auto activate the unit if tampered with so unlikely Aptom could get rid of them, at worst he'd be armored all the time. But considering he can control his aborbing power, otherwise he'd absorb everything he touches (including his allies), that he can simply relax his form into his base human form and that would allow the armor to deactivate. Course every time he did use his absorbsion power he could trigger the unit.

Anyway, drag-5, the problem with Aptom assimulating DNA after being bonded to a Guyver Unit is the fact the unit preserves the host in the condition the host was in at time of bonding. I do believe the unit can bond to just about any sentient life form but you have to consider factors such as how the CM is able to regenerate its host from just a few cells. So Aptom may retain his ability to absorb organic matter but assimulation of DNA would be at best temporary, at least with a standard G-Unit.

As to what would happen if Aptom completely merged with a Unit... Here's a hint, the Control Medal will absolutely be a factor and by no means will it be irrevelant.

If the Boost Armor could adapt to anything without limit, then there wouldn't be a need for the Gigantic armor. The existance of the Gigantic Armor proves there are limits to what can be done.

I disagree with you upon that interpretation YoungGuyver. The Gigantic in my view is a seperate entity from the host Guyver unit. If anything it shows the Guyver can adapt and go beyond its limitations, not the reverse. After all it was the Guyver factor that caused the Relic Cocoon to create the Gigantic, drastically changing the function of the Relic. Something that can definitely be argued was not in the Creator data base and thus shows flexibility of both design and function of Creator technology.

Let's not forget we are talking about living technology. By its very nature limitations are at the very least flexible and by no means absolute.

Consider that the Guyver's only real limitation is what it has to work with and that limitation is linked to the host. A being like Aptom would give the unit far more to work with.

Your arguement also doesn't reflect that the Gigantic example does not factor in any enhancements the host could bring to the mix. Indeed, IMHO, the armor's adaptability can very well be able to assimulate a being like Aptom. The main limitations I see is it would block his ability to assimulate new DNA but it shouldn't block his ability to absorb organic matter for energy as that is natural to the host biology. Only the DNA assimulation would conflict with the static nature of the Guyver bond once finalized.

However, I do agree with you on the matter of Telepathy. If even the potential for telepathy is removed from Aptom then it is unlikely he could ever bond to a Guyver Unit. Though the total removal of even the potential of telepathy is highly unlikely and for Aptom may only be due to his unstable DNA, something a bonding to a Unit could potentially rectify.

But in the end only Takaya can say for sure.

On another note, I noticed there is very little thought being given to what would happen if Aptom did indeed bond to a unit outside of the obvious power enhancments... Namely what would happen if Aptom also absorbed the Unit as it was bonding to him?

Remember Aptom has the potential to Absorb a Guyver, the only thing stopping him is the Guyver Control Medal but would it interfere if the unit is bonding to him?

In short what would be the result of a complete and total merger?

I fail to see any real similarity to a Phaser.

You know, back in my mid teens I would have given the exact same reply. Boy I'm glad I grew out of that phase.

Anyway, a little pop culture knowledge goes a long way, like the fact the phaser is more famous for its stun setting than its vaporization/kill setting which set it apart from all the other previous sci-fi ray guns of its time. So the majority of time people make comparisons to the fictional beam weapon of the sci-fi Star Trek fame is for its none lethal effect rather than its lethal effect. For death ray weapons people usually compare it to other sci-fi series like Star Wars.

For this particular weapon though its primary purpose is simply riot control and is little more than an easy to use long range none lethal deterant. A job presently limited to armored vehicales with water fire hoses. Effects on people remain effective as long as people have nerve endings and can sense pain so people hyped up on drugs should still be effected unless they use something that can probably kill them before it wears off. Which is one of many reasons this weapon is only one of many being developed.

As for a ray like stun gun, already invented. About two years ago they developed a UV laser enhanced stun gun that fired a harmless laser to ionize the air between the weapon and its target to act like a conductor for the stun gun discharge, wirelessly stunning a target. Presently R&D is working on miniturizing it into a convienant pistol size weapon for ease of use like the present wire firing model used by law enforcement.

Omega, I bet you learned to love that Glide and double Jump Ability a lot. I know Cave of Wonders sucks esspecially Jafar at the end. However personally Sephiroth in the Collisium is the bane of my existence. I know I have to be lvl 70 or 80 but getting there is a pain in the well you know. I cirtainly hope in KH II they make leveling up easier even if it is just a little.

Yeah, the leveling up rate is set by the choices you make at the beginning of the game. Determining the rate you level up and which traits dominate. Depending on your answers you can go to certain places where shadows spawn in droves, allowing you to rack up and level up quickly.

Personally the secret bosses in Jafar(Should wait till you get turbo flight) and Neverland-clocktower(Using magic time stop is only way to last long enough) were the hardest for me. The Ice Giant is easy once you learn its pattern. Sephiroth is tough but stay off the ground and you'll stand a chance. Next biggest pain is collecting the goo, juggling was never my strong point

Your topic, as it was worded, is also about alternative power sources and the CPM is a varient of the HSL so it does apply.

Besides what do you mean conditional HSL's? They're a complete different method of channeling power from hyper space. They work off the same principles of HSL yes but so would any other variant type you are thinking about.

You're are also failing to understand that hyper space is not just one energy type. Hyper space deal with all higher dimensions. Not to mention all energy and matter is interchangeable. So speciallization doesn't get you anything besides a specific effect.

I.E.> Giving Dark Nova a gravity specific HSL would not make her any more powerful than giving her a normal HSL. Either way her unit would channel the power into gravity based abilities.

The reason the HSL is set up the way it is is to maximize the energy it can safely channel. Integrating it into the bio-boost process gives the maximum control and automatically regulates it to the level the host can safely sustain.

MIGUZI is what has replaced Toonami on the weekday time slots of the Cartoon Network and is basically an all kids version of Toonami.

Toonami meanwhile has been shoved to Saturday 7-11 PM time slot.

Yet another reason why people should read the data files on the site, that is what they are there for!

Oh well, both Sparky and Kamui de' Tempest are essentially correct, the HSL is strickly for enhancing the power of a Unit through the Bio-Boost process.

However there is another type called CPM's... Specifically

-CPM (Cyclone Power Matrix): A self contained variant of the HSL power system that was developed by the Creators in the alternate reality that Warrior Guyver 2 originated from. This method creates a limited siphoning of hyper space energy and channels energy according to user's will. The unstable nature of this device limits produce able energy to a rate equivalent to that produced by a standard human hosted Warrior Guyver HSL system.

The third form, more or less because it was not intended as a weapon or power source, is the Matrix.

Let's see... Mystery crystal like stones, hmm, "No Comment" But I can say they have nothing to do with Darmon crystals or Matrix shards...

Xtro Guyver, there are other examples of these crystal/stones in the fic

Upgrading Dreadnought...clarification... The only way for Dreadnought to be upgraded would be for Jason to give up his humanity and become something other than fully human. So no, it's not going to happen.

Upgrading Alkanphel...possible but we already got plans for him, and the mystery crystals/stones are not as simple as they may presently appear.

Kamui de'Tempest, the Darmon Backup is only for backup. Dreadnought's primary power systems already keep him at peak power and again altering him would sacrifice some of his humanity.

As for the WG types there is no type 3, unless you are confusing the MII enhanced WG units for a third type?

The difference between type 1 and 2 are simply of specialization. They are otherwise equal in raw power and technology. WG2's only seems more powerful because defensive shield power was sacrificed for offensive, CPM's, firepower.

For Dreadnought the Power Wave ability already surpasses both unit types energy handling abilities so his abilities have already been enhanced.

What the hell kind of noid is that?

Yes, as GuyverRaziel said but to be more specific here's a quote from Star's site

The Bolanca Brothers appeared in Book #15 of the Guyver comics. These three Hyper Zoanoids are capable of combating separately or come together and form an imitation of the Guyver Gigantic (Guyver I). Though its appearance is similar to the Guyver Gigantic, its weapons and power are by no means the same. It's purpose was to alienate the Guyvers from the general public, making them enemies of Cronos, as well as the people. The Bolanca Brothers were latere destroyed by Guyver Gigantic. (Note, the name was translated into English by the webmaster, and therefore am subjected to error. Also, regarding the names of the individual zoanoids, (the alpha, beta, and charlie parts of their names) they were actually the latin symbols and not the full English words.)