zeo

Because it really is that far fetched and that is compared to everything else on this site to boot.

xaiur this is the science section not the fan fiction section. You want unbelievable concepts then repost this topic in the fan fic section.

I was asked to give my thoughts and in accordance with the purpose of the science section the topic is posted in I gave my opinion on the subject.

Besides YoungGuyver already gave the closest biological design possibility and I'm not one to repeat what has already been said.

Of course, a few more ideas wouldn't hurt.. I'm especially curious to see what input Zeo can offer..

I would have kept it simple and simply have the creature curl up into a circle and roll like a wheel. Actually having wheeled limbs call a lot of factors into question, at least in terms of science. It's an extreme adaptation that would require specific evolutionary conditions. Not to mention the weather conditions of a near perfectly smooth planet, which btw would require at least two moons to explain why the planet doesn't at least have multiple meteor craters. Not to mention the unlikelyhood of there being a naturally smooth planet unless it was a small planet that cooled off quickly in its creation.

You'll be better off with an artificial planet and genetically engineered lifeforms. Wheels for limbs is not really a likely natural adaptation organic life is likely to take.

By the Way, The reason why the armor doesn't just destroy the skin or clothes is because it's a bio-boosted ARMOR! The Armor part is a small hint, as it says, it's just an armor to protect the host. The weapons are part of the host, but same thing, it protects the hst as an Armor would prtect the host.

Uh no, the reason it doesn't tear through the cloths is because it can easily bypass it. Remember this is a living weapon that can store itself in hyper space. A barrier such as cloths doesn't even compare. The unit can either go around through existing orafices, like YoungGuyver suggested, or right through the cloths like they weren't even there. Even our skin can be easily bypassed under the right conditions and any device that can alter our DNA can easily get around any such barrier.

My turn my turn! I've always thought that the Guyver armor jut wraps around Sho but last night I was watching the t.v. show and I came up with an idea. You know the Guyver follows it's host while remaining in another dimenison (at least that was Tetusro theory) well mayber the Guyver fuses with the host. The Guyver puts Sho's conscience and takes his blood (and maybe other stuff) while Sho's body is teleported and temporarly put in the place where the Guyver stays during inactivity. Sho/Agito wouldn't know about this because they're conscinces is with the Guyver unit. I kind of like my theory but I really don't know what to believe.

You're thinking something like Dark Hawk from Marvel Comic's. No, the Guyver clearly merges with the host. Body swapping does not occur.

As for the Gigantic, as I stated before the only point of contention between me and YoungGuyver is on the matter of how the Guyver bonds to the Gigantic.

Strangely enough my theory is closer to evoklumsy's since my observations of the Gigantic when damaged indicate to me that the host unit remains deep within the Gigantic but my findings aren't totally conclusive so I won't argue my theory over YoungGuyver's until we get more translated from the Manga.

Though there is an alternate theory that the host unit simply gets absorbed into the Gigantic so aside from the CM there would be no concerns of how the body fits into the Gigantic.

Talking of the artbook, I noticed something interesting.

The orbs that are all over Gigantic's body are actually all over the normal Guyver's body as well. They are just internal and not only for show. On some rough translation of the japanese books I discovered that these are 'Power Amp's. So if these are power amplifiers then these are how the guyver increases the hosts strength.

Not entirely but yes they are part of how the Guyver works.

Pretty much everything in the fic is a collaboration between all active members. We all have our creative strong points and specialties, thus we help each other create what we need for the fic.

As to how we came up with the Matrix, this was mentioned before on the board btw.

Back during the creative process of writing the WG2 character fic we brain stormed as we needed to come up with something that would be the ultimate technology of the Creators, since basically the WG2 universe was suppose to be far more technically advance than the main fic.

The device is like the ultimate tool so Matrix seemed the best descriptive name for it.

An arguement with me?

Really though, the only thing in real contention between me and YoungGuyver is the matter of how the Guyver merges with the Gigantic Guyver.

Other than that we all agree the Guyver unit itself is clearly a symbiotic living organism that merges with the human host, regulated by the Control Medal, to produce a combined being called the Guyver.

Really, such an amalgamated merger could produce a being of virtually any form imagineable. It is only a matter of simplicity that the Guyver retains a humanoid form because of the host form (environmental adaption). The Guyver organism itself is formless, aside from tendrils, so relies on the host and the Control Medal regulation to give it form and function.

So yes drag-5, Sho is not human when he's the Guyver.

They are the same thing, the names only signify different ways at looking at dimensional theory.

Correct Riven, it will take time for unit and host to fully adjust to each other. The WG Zoalord will be extremely powerful but it will still have to follow the laws of conservation of energy though Frost is right that it won't take hours but even minutes is too long as it would only take the Creators seconds to act. . .

Frost, you are correct that EKP was telepathically handicaped by Horus but that does not mean the Creators don't have the ability to block teleportation. They may not have Matrixes but they still have very advance technology.

Besides, a Super Nova will effect hyper space so even if he does teleport he'll still get vaporized. Also a Super Nova travels very fast so he'd be lucky to even sense it coming before it hits. There is also a possibility the Super Nova itself could block teleportation because its intense energy would destabilize local space time.

Your forgetting three things.

1) It will take time to merge and get to his full power

2) A Super Nova will destroy everything for light years.

3) You're assuming the Creators don't have the power to block teleportation.

Nope, Aceaers are their own seperate unit. They only get so powerful and stay that way no matter how powerful the user.

In fact, if the user is too powerful then they can wind up destroying the Aceaer.

Besides it would take quite a bit more than an Aceaer to close the gap between Zeus and Dreadnought.

Actually Astroguyer has a point, stopping the fusion in the Sun would cause a massive gravitational shockwave, basically a gravity version of a Tsunami. Nothing much of anything would survive within the solar system.

Remember Weltall2, the Sun is incredibly massive and acts much like a gaseous ball of fire. Its enormous size is partly due to the explosive energy it is constantly generating pushing its mass outward. Take that energy away and the Sun will collapse under its own weight. All that mass shifting into a compact dense ball would create a gravitational shock wave that would effect everything within the Sun's gravitational field. So like what was shown in Star Trek Generations, massive devastation would result though a Super Nova would be more a of sure thing if the Creators want to make sure to wipe out even a Guyver Zoalord.

Why not something worse like a black hole or something you think the creators could collapse a star or two.

Requires more effort, also turning the Sun into a black hole would only put us into the dark and freeze us. They would have to increase the Sun's mass to make it suck us in from our present position.

Alternatively they could just create a moon size black hole and throw it at Earth.

Not to mention the tried and true method of bombarding us with moon size projectiles.

Do I really need to go on?

Phase shifting into a hyper space produces pressure changes around the event horizon of the dimensional barrier, which would explain both the Guyver blast field and the effects of the Pressure Cannon, but I agree the folded space time is probably what is really used. I simply stated it to show that there are alternate explainations.

Hmm, seems many have forgotten what was said in the WG2 fic. Namely the Creators can simply make the sun go Nova, or worse super nova, not even a Warrior Guyver Zoalord could survive that as such an event would also effect hyperspace. Not even the power to destroy a planet compares to that level of destruction.

guyverfanatic is also correct in that the Creators have the advantage of numbers.

In part the attack on Alkanphel shows the Creators know what is at stake, but the situation is more complex than is readily apparent at the moment.

Oh it's alive alright but as to how long it will live I will have to say "No Comment" for now.

Singularity is basically collapsed space time to a one dimensional point. Any which way you get that results in a black hole, at least while in normal space time.

What I think you are refering to is folded space time and yes that could work. Come to think of it you can almost mistake it for a black hole but nowhere near as destructive and would give the observed results of a pressure cannon.

Maybe the Manga reference to a black hole is simply in reference to the use of its power instead of a direct reference, focusing gravitational energy to created a ball of folded space time. It would indeed be unstable but effective as a weapon. Also in the anime they called it a gravity weapon and not a black hole per say. So that could be a very good solution to the topic.

Course there are alternatives, like the pressure cannon could be based on the same system that allows the Guyver to store itself in hyper space. So phase shifts effected target mass into hyper space, explaining why there are no sign of the blasted matter. But the folded space time is probably the best solution. Good one YoungGuyver.

Hmm, I was using a more conservative estimate but both our answers are in the nuclear scale so yes it doesn't match what is shown in either the Manga or Anime.

So we can be pretty sure the Pressure Cannon is not an actual black hole.

However it does bring to mind what kind of attacks some Zoalords like Imakarum may use against the Guyvers if they had just a bit better control.

YoungGuyver is correct, Aptom would simply become a quickie meal for the Unit. The unit would not alter itself to what it eats any more than we do when we eat. It just does it much more efficiently and quickly.

The unit will absorb anything that tries to absorb it first. The clone was trying to absorb G1 but the moment it touched the CM it got slurped up. This almost happened to Aptom when he tried the same thing.

Alien face huggers don't try to absorb their victims so no the unit would not try to absorb it, which would be a bad idea anyway since those aliens have acid for blood. But since the Guyver has no mouth and the alien is not strong enough to be a real threat the most the unit will do is fire the head beam at it the moment it launches itself at the Guyver's head, who in turn would only have to worry about the acid blood.

Interesting enough oil eating bacteria works by producing enzyme to break down the oil and eat the resulting by products so yes the bacteria I envision for our theoretical discussion would eat the "goo" left after the enzyme does its job.

This is a continuous process though so unlikely the Guyver would get a chance to fight, the bacteria would basically be coated with the stuff, back unless it somehow figures a way to poison the bacteria and/or produce its own anti-biotic which is unlikely. Unless of course Balcus miscalculates and does not account for an unknown element present in the Bio-Armor that can be lethal to the bacteria.

As for the natural stuff it isn't that fast (ever watched fungus grow?) and doesn't really have to be to do the job. It's mainly a matter of numbers and time. So the larger the initial infection the faster the process will be. But I do assume Balcus would make it work really fast.

Though only real problem I can see is if the specific enzyme used to break down the Bio-Armor is so hard to produce that only a large organism like a Zoanoid can produce it in enough quantity for it to be used as a weapon. Or if they have to settle for a weaker enzyme that works slow enough for the Guyver to fight off the bacteria and recover.

Hmm, but on the other hand it would make for an interesting upgrade to the Enzyme Zoanoid design. Say a dart like weapon that injects something like my hypothetical bacterial to poison and slow down the Guyver. So even a partial success could produce some interesting results.

Here's a simple solution, create a bacterial infection based off Enzyme. A bacteria that naturally produces either the Enzyme or acid if they lost how to make the original Enzyme to break down the Guyver. Then just inject it into the Guyver and like blood poisoning it would quickly kill the host as the bacteria spreads and multiplies and then dissolve the Guyver from within till at most the only thing left would be the Control Medal.

It'll be rendered harmless once it is done with its victim since air neutrallizes the Enzyme so just spray some disinfectant to kill off the bacteria when done to clean up the mess.

So just like the bacteria they use to clean up oil spills they could come up with one to deal with the Guyver but that would be one heck of an advance bio-engineering. Though a definite possibility if Takaya ever considers it.

It is evolution because as the host and unit merge they form a new being.

The unit may be repairing itself but what W'Kar is turning into is not the original unit. So he is evolving.

The main thing to remember is the W'Kar element. It doesn't just produce multi-dimensional energy, it is multi dimensional. As such it requires enormous energy to maintain it and keep it from exploding.

There are more factors but I'll leave it up to Allen if he wants to explain them.

Yes, That's why I'm thinking that only Guyvers that already speak the same language can communicate through the organisms on the hosts back. In the manga, it seems that Sho and Agito are simply talking to eachother. There was not the slightest hint of Sho sharing any part of Agito's mind, no hint of him learning Agito's plans.

Again it depends on the level of communication you are talking about, the link does not have to be a conscious one to be classified as telepathy. Remember Agito was able to sense when Sho appeared to have died and later he could sensed him within the Gigantic Cocoon. Even Valcus was able to sense someone was within the Gigantic cocoon. This is clear examples of non verbal communication and a trademark for telepathy/empathy.

Also consider, two factors, one the Guyver is still a human so host mind is not exactly set up to take full advantage of telepathy even if it is the true kind. Two, the fact the Guyver unit is conducting the telepathy means the host would not necessarily be fully aware of how the telepathy is being processed. So as far as the host is concerned the telepathy is a subconscious connection but still falls within the realm of what can be classified as true telepathy.

But admittedly until Takaya has them communicate with a none japanese Guyver then we can't be fully sure.

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What does frequency have to do with either inducing a current with an electromagnetic field (EMP) or a high-voltage electrostatic generator (Van de Graaff generator) giving a rather nasty bit of ESD?

That and I wouldn't necessarily use the Borg if you mean to refer to actual physics. Trek writers tend to be as scientifically adept as Mihoshi is adept at landing her ship.

Frequency has a lot to do with how energy effects matter FOG3. Power alone does not always cause damage. A plasma glode for example uses high voltage but the frequency is too high to interact with our nervous system. So the energy passes harmlessly through us.

Nanites of the type we are talking about would operate at their own frequency. To best effect them the energy used to zap them would have to match their frequency. Simple electro static discharge would not even hit all of them as ESD travel through the points of greatest conductance and that is rarely through a body, let alone throughout the whole body. So ESD based attack would be very localized unless you use up enough energy to ionize every square inch of the target. I.E.> Light up the target like a lightbulb. Which is a very inefficient way of going about it.

EMP, which are basically radiowaves, is more effective because it covers a much wider range of frequencies. Just like a white noice generator for a sound weapon. This combines with the energy of the attack for maximum effect. But EMP can be shielded and ESD can be grounded. So effectiveness as I said before would depend on the level of technology the nanites use.

As for Star Trek, they may be off on a lot of things but as far as how the Borg nanites work they aren't that far off. Use of high frequency and such is actually scientifically accurate. To counter nanites you need something that will affect them all at once. Because if any survive then you would quickly be back at square one.

As for how they would effect a Guyver, unless specifically designed to adapt to the Guyver nanites would be easily neutralized. If they do adapt then it would depend on whether they are more advance than the Guyver CM. For WG this wouldn't even be a concern.

Yes, Guyver 2 is the last example. At least for Guyver fan fic examples.

That leaves just one.

Of the group though Cyber Guyver is the best example of a Guyver being infected with nanites that were not intended to be beneficial and shows one possible outcome of such an infection.