zeo

Happy Birthday Weltall2

I disagree with Matt, Agito cares but for him it's war and Shizu was the only one he could trust with the power of a Zoalord over his Libertus army. In fact he was angry that she only had three years to live, which is why he destroyed the Kronos Tower after he was told about her shortened lifespan. It was an act of anger and frustration that could only be explained by him being upset about Shizu's fate.

So Agito only hides his true feelings. He's mainly just so consumed by his need for revenge that he doesn't let his feelings get in the way.

Remember Agito lost his family to Kronos and was adopted by the man responsible. So he has grown up wanting revenge but also since he was raised by Kronos he has been taught that you can be either one of two types of people, either the ones with power or their victims and he never ever wanted to be victim again. The only logical conclusion of this belief is that in order to always be in control of his destiny then he must not only destroy Kronos but rule the world himself. So for him the ends justify the means. There is a difference between not caring and not letting your feelings get in the way.

But there is also a saying about revenge, if one becomes consumed by the need to destroy the enemy then one will become the enemy. So though Agito is presently not evil, just consumed with the need to fulfill his goals, he could become truly evil if he doesn't learn to change in the future. In other words he's not yet beyond redemption but he is definitely on the road to damnation.

Also remember, very few bad guys actually see themselves as bad guys. They just do what they think is necessary and depending on your point of view they will either be good or evil.

Sorry, "No Comment"

But there is a hint of what would happen in the Data File.

largo, get over it. Wild Wild West was hardly bad enough to blacklist him. Just forget it and move on.

Besides I, Robot is a good movie. So go see it already.

True, when life started it was immortal but there is a natural reason why the telomeres evolved into our cells.

Basically there are two factors, the telomeres are one factor and YoungGuyver is correct on their function but the other half of the picture deals with how our bodies handle free radicals. Unfortunately oxygen is a toxic substance that we can't live without. It's the trade off made for the energy oxygen gives our bodies. Otherwise life would never have had the energy to evolve into more complex forms such as ourselves.

Studies to date indicate the better an organism deals with free radicals the longer it will live. Course an organism over time needs to handle genetic damage in order to survive. So in a way Telomeres simply tells our cells how long they have before they start malfunctioning so should die before that happens. Cells without telomeres may live longer but become cancerous and mutate from their intented function.

The other way life handles radicals is through offspring, natures way of repairing DNA and reseting the biological clock. It was the need to repair genetic damage that most life adopted our present way of reproduction.

The Guyver however keeps a copy of host DNA so can always restore host from any level of damage to the body. Along with reseting the telomeres length to the state they were at the time of original bonding, as the Guyver does with all other host characteristics, means the host becomes for all intent and purpose immortal.

As for Shizu and the Libertus, free radicals explains them as well. Agito's scientist didn't shorten their lives on purpose, it was simply a consequental result of what he had done to them. The reason most animal life on Earth has the same number of heartbeats for their lifetime, despite the differences in actual lifespan, is because of free radicals and the rate it damages DNA. The faster the metabolism the shorter the lifespan will thus be. Telomeres reflect this for each life form, since timing is everything in keeping life going. Inefficient life forms consequently dies quicker than efficient life forms.

So unless the life form develops an improved method of handling free radicals then the faster the metabolism the faster the damage and the faster that lifeform will die.

So they basically just burn out faster because of the power they were given. They need to be stabilized on the genetic level in order to live longer. Agito's scientist may know how to make zoaforms but he does not know how to keep them efficient enough to make them stable.

By Marvels own admission the 2099 series comics were pretty much an attempt at a perminent elseworld/what if version of the Marvel universe but it failed. Yes the 2099 Spiderman had organic webbing but so did venom. Neither of which is the version of Spiderman I was refering to in my previous posts. Besides 2099 Spiderman shot his webbing from atop his wrist, not below like traditional Spiderman.

Btw guyverfanatic, those weren't spikes, just like the movie spiderman those were hairs he used for clinging to surfaces. They just happen to be long and sharp enough to also use as claws and tough enough to tear through even metal. Normally always exposed he had to consciously retract them to avoid tearing apart everything he touched. Additionally the 2099 Spiderman had infrared vision and enhanced senses instead of Spider sense. The costume was made of unstable molecules, basic marvel near indestructable costume that was invented by Richard's of Fantastic Four. This allowed him to survive getting pummeled by bullets though it took awhile for him to heal from the internal bleeding caused by the impacts. The stuff that looks like webbing around the costume allows him to catch and glide on air currents.

He also wasn't bitten by a spider, rather he was a honest scientist working for a dishonest company so they tried to get him addicted to this DNA based super drug. He tried to cure himself with a DNA machine to filter out the Drug DNA but they sabotaged it with DNA from a Spider instead of his own thinking it would kill him, instead they got Spiderman 2099.

But like I said before, Marvel changes their characters with every encarnation. Just look how each cartoon series differs from the last and you'll wonder if any of the writers had ever actually read the comic.

It is also important to remember that the comics and the movies differ greatly on the point of Doc Oc's tentecles. For example in the movie he needs to use two tent's to support himself fighting while in the comics he does not. Stan Lee still hasn't ironed out many of the details of his characters.

Proff of this lies in Spidy's wall crawling ablility. Untill recently his ability was never fully explained. His ability in the comics is a kinetic adhesion process; while in the movie it is hair like fibers that stick to walls.

There are so many characters whose powers have yet to be ffully explained.

Actually Marvel already released books describing in detail their characters abilities. Problem is finding them as they are pretty rare. I glanced through a few of them during my comic book collection days, was too pricey for me to actually buy though. Anyway Spiderman was described to generate this electrochemical body auro that let him latch any part of his body to nearly any surface. So unlike the movie Spiderman he was not limited to just his hands and feet. The strength of this field was quite high as a panel showed Colossus grabbing Spiderman off a wall but wound up taking the wall along with Spiderman. Also unlike the movie the comic Spiderman did not make his own webbing, he used his brains and made artificial webbing.

Both methods have their benefits and downside. Main problem with organic webbing is you can't alter the mixter to fit a specific villian and if exhausted you run the risk of running out, but upside was he always had it available and all he needed was rest and food to make more. The artificial webbing needed maintainance for the webshooters, supplies of chemicals to make the webbing, and could be broken in battle, not to mention he had to remember to carry them, but on the plus he could make them any strength he wanted and could even make armor out of it for special occassions.

The thing to remember is Marvel reinvents its characters in every encarnation. The Spiderman movies being the latest they simply culled from modern science a new explaination for his abilities which in a way makes more sense than a random mutation from an irradiated spider. After all, as noted in the first movie, not all spiders have the same amazing set of abilities. So for the movie they bio-engineer a super spider. Using a virus to transmit the genes to the spider allowed it to then transmit the necessary genes to Parker without turning him into some mutant monster while at the same time making sure he got the full suite of spider abilities.

As for Doc Oc in the comics, not all Marvel characters are that well thought out. After all they gave him an obsession with fusion but only the movie version is immune to electro magnetism. The original arms were just simple hydrolic steel arms. Some version even had the arms as retractable. But note the movie version did use all four arms at certain occassions in the movie. The arms themselves aren't so heavy but rather when excerting a lot of force or when climbing along a surface do two arms need to brace for support.

Speed look at the phantom menace. When Qui-gon and obi-one are in thetrade federation ship at the beinging when the are getting attacked by the destorier droids. when they leave it is in a matter of a few frames. I think that counts for more than enough speed to compete with a guyver.

Time manipulation was not used in the movie, also frame timing is not accurate for the simple fact it is a movie. They never show how long it really takes. A 11 hour trip at light speed can be over in just a few frames. You are taking the movie too literally. Switching between frames can show an entirely different time reference and does not tell you actually how long it took them to get out.

As for the Force jump, it will take a lot more than that to out maneuver a Guyver.

For comparison, Jet Li's The One could run just over 50 MPH, a Guyver can go 250 MPH and fly 300 MPH. Do you really think a Jedi could keep up with that kind of speed?

In addition a guyvers resitance to heat means nothing as a lightsaber does not radiate heat at all.

Wrong, the light saber is an energy weapon, all the damage it does translate to heat. Same reason why light saber wounds never bleed because the intense heat of the blade cauterizes the wound instantly. But its not a flame so heat does not radiate beyond the space of the blade itself.

Riven already noted a Star Wars equivalent armor to show how tough it would be for a light saber to get through a Guyver armor. And I did say at worst it would take several hits.

However, I do agree it is not a hands down Guyver will win, but like I said before that will mainly happen only if the Guyver hesitates and gives the Jedi time to concentrate something nasty on it. Remember, aside from the force the Jedi are just normal humanoids and can be killed just as easily as the rest of us. The Guyver is a living weapon and much harder to kill so it does have an advantage, it doesn't mean the Jedi have no chance just not all that great of a chance.

Besides there aren't that many who can become Jedi while anyone can become a Guyver and given enough units can easily overwhelm the Jedi if it comes to that.

A Jedi Guyver would be interesting however, like many religions Guyverianism could always absorb other religions into their ranks

As for you Riven thos powers that you pointed out are just every day powers that they show in the movies, but there are many other ablities that make a jedi much more dangerous. Like the ablity to slow time around them. Also a jedi could just crush all the organs in side a guyvers body leaving them incaspaicated, while the jedi would come up and just slash the control medal with a light saber.

The only real thing that makes a guyver dangerous to a jedi is the mega smasher, and even with that they could just move out of the way using force speed.

Incorrect, a Guyver can simply use the head beam and sonic busters at the same time to easily kill a Jedi and I doubt a Jedi can protect itself from a pressure cannon.

But the movie version is the only cannon version of the Jedi. The novels and such are not cannon anymore than the numerous Star Trek novels are. Even taking them into account you forget a Jedi is totally dependant on the force for their power and otherwise have perfectly normal limitations.

For example they only seem fast because they predict their opponents movement and react before it happens, giving the illusion of superhuman speed. A Guyver is naturally superhumanly fast and its hyper sensors gives it all the warning it needs.

As for the crushing of internal organs you forget that would only cause the Guyver to go into self defense mode. So the Jedi would still have to fight the Guyver but no Jedi can do these tricks instantly. So a Guyver is more likely to kill the Jedi first. Course a Jedi could just levitate a mountain and drop it on the Guyver but levitation is relatively slow so a Guyver could still dodge or kill the Jedi before the mountain gets too close.

The lightning attack may be effective against normal people and less skilled Jedi but it is nowhere near powerful enough to harm a Guyver unless it has a direct hit upon the CM and firing lightning is never that accurate.

The time effect, even if valid, would still have to exceed the Guyver's speed and agility to be effective. After all when was the last time you saw a Jedi run 250 MPH.

You are also assuming the light saber would be an effective weapon against a Guyver. I think not because of the Guyver's high durability and extreme heat resistance it could very well be able to withstand the light saber or at the very least reduce its effectiveness enough that it would take multiple strikes.

Physically a Jedi has no enhanced strength, relying on the force to perform superhuman feats so in close range a Guyver can simply crush the Jedi to a pulp.

A Jedi can withstand environmental extremes for short periods but the Guyver would remain fully functional for the same amount of time. So like on a space station, a Guyver can simply depressurize the section they are in and while the Jedi struggles to survive the Guyver can just move in for the kill.

So yes a Jedi can potentially do more than a Guyver but the Guyver is a living weapon and thus has the advantage in battle. Only if the Guyver hesitates do I see the Jedi winning.

Besides, if you include the novels for the Jedi then you also have to include the fan fiction for the Guyvers. Some of which exceed even the most powerful of Jedi in raw power.

Originally about the same but over the years he's upgraded them, at least after Spiderman ripped off his originals from their sockets in a fit of rage, with options such as using near indestructable adamantium. With those he at one time at least was even able to knock the Hulk out with them, albiet he had caught him by surprise, was already gasing him, and Hulk was only at his base calm strength level which is 100 tons. So yes they are pretty darn powerful.

Movie also differs in that the arms are insulated and immune to magnetic fields. Also the movie version has a retractable spike and at least two of them double as extra eyes.

As for the 12 tons total, remember he has to use two of them to brace himself when lifting something otherwise his puny human body would have to support the weight... Ouch

So more or less in the same class as Spiderman who maxes out at about 10 tons.

I scene and loved the movie as well. I just think it is strange Dr. O took all those punches from spiderman... I mean... he is just human... spidermans punch should have caved in his face. lol

Well, remember Spiderman is not a killer so he almost always pulls his punches. So he was trying to knock him out not kill him but those Arms had other plans.

Btw, in case anyone was wondering, each of Dr. Oc's Arms (I'm only refering to the movie version) are rated to lift up to 3 tons.

I can see it now... Guyverianism campain ad...

On open and rocky terrain a cloaked figure of a dark Jedi is confronted with what appears to be a mere boy. The dark Jedi tries to bend the will of the boy with no effect, in anger he uses the dark Jedi lightning attack and slams the boy to the ground. The boy smiles as he gets up and yells "Guyver" shocking the dark Jedi, who quickly activates his double light saber. The Guyver fires pulses from his head beam which the dark Jedi blocks with the double light saber and then uses the force to send a nearby boulder flying towards the Guyver who just slices it apart with his vibrational swords. Now worried the dark Jedi uses the force to lift the Guyver in an attempt to knock him away but the Guyver activates his gravity control orb and stops in mid air as he activates his sonic busters and causes the dark Jedi's head to explode. Even as his body falls to the floor a rumble can be heard as a small army of Jedi can now be seen running towards the lone Guyver. The Guyver simply rips open its Mega Smashers and obliterates all the Jedi in a spectacular show of raw power. It appears the Guyver had easily won the battle when a lone Jedi appear behind the Guyver and is about to charge in with his light saber when the Guyver casually holds out one hand behind him and fires a single handed mini-pressure cannon at the charging Jedi, blowing his head off. The Guyver then deactivates his armor and the boy smiles at the camera before walking away towards the horizon. An announcer then appears before the camera and says, "The Jedi may have the ability to manipulate the force but the Guyver is the power of the force personified"

Screen then goes dark with the caption "This ad was brought to you by the commity for Guyverianism"

Then in another ad they show the regenerative powers of the Guyver and compare it to all the Jedi's with mechanical limbs, which would you prefer?

I would say immortal as far as we're concerned. Consider the fact they wondered through space, that alone can take millions of years, then the fact that once they discovered Earth and started experimenting they basically let nature take its course and only intervened when they saw the evolving life did not fit their needs. That took eons. So the Creators are either an extremely dedicated race that can wait thousands of generations to get something done or they are simply immortals who have all the time in the universe to wait to get things done. Either way they are extremely patient.

Then there is the factor of their technology for which the Guyver has shown indication with its ability to exactly regenerate the host that shows that even if they are capable of aging that they have the technology to avoid aging and even normal death. So at the very least they can live as long as they want or until their technology failed for whatever reason.

Apology accepted.

Just to be fair, there was some misunderstanding on both our parts. Understandable since neither of us are mind readers. It was never my intention to suggest or portray you as a sadist. I simply responded to what I understood from your post. It just never occured to me that you would take my response so personally.

For future reference just remember that my activity on this board is simply a hobby for me. I've been seriously interested in science and technology for the last 20 years of my life. I've been a Guyver fan since '89. So I have a lot to say on those subjects. I never intentionally insult anyone if I can help it and take it as a matter of honor to be truthful. So outside of fan fiction I don't make stuff up.

I have no interest in defaming anyone and consider it a waste of energy to even try.

Now that that is settled, back on topic, here are two useful links relating to this topic.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992254

http://www.capstun.com/english/non-lethal_weapons/nlt-usaf.html

Let's see

Effects on people remain effective as long as people have nerve endings and can sense pain so people hyped up on drugs should still be effected unless they use something that can probably kill them before it wears off.

In the english language this means that unless something impairs a person to the point that their life is in danger that they will be effected by this weapon. Note I did say

and can sense pain

The fact is most cases this particular non-lethal weapon will be used will not be against people who are immune to pain. People riot all the time and don't have to be doped up to act crazy. The device makes you feel like you're on fire and no normal person can withstand that more than a few seconds so yes it will be a very effective tool to disperse rioting crowds.

Hmm, you also missed

will not be against people who are immune to pain

Then there's your quote

It's another nice toy, but it certainly can't just replace their using the firehoses which use things that are effective regardless of the persons mental state or drugs that may be in their system.

Which according to proper english grammar does exactly mean you were inferring that stun guns and the like can't just replace they're using fire hosing, which use things that are effective regardless of the persons mental state or drugs that they may be in their system.

Ask anyone to read that and that is exactly the meaning you gave. Regardless of what you may have been thinking. So instead of clarifying what you meant from what was posted you make it sound like I was purposely twisting your words. This was never personal until you made it personal.

I simply responded to what you had posted and did so truthfully and you try to make it look like I was trying to discredit you and that I'm a liar.

I said it before that calling me a liar is a personal insult and you have crossed that line twice. Note, I will not tolerate it again.

You seem to have a problem with people questioning you FOG3, like the first time you came on this board and posted a theory that we questioned. So you reacted by calling me and all the others who disagreed with you idiots. . .

You have only succeeded in discrediting yourself FOG3.

Even just one object flying through space close to LS or even at or above LS, will most likely explode from the force of the crunch. It doesn't very well matter if it is organic or otherwise.

True, impacts of sufficient velocities would cause E=MC^2 factor to take effect and the mass of the impacting objects to start breaking down into raw energy. Though not as efficient as an actual nuke, the energy release can still be quite substantial.

A factor we use regularly is particle accelerators, smashing atoms together at near light speed so they'll basically explode and we get to see what subatomic particles they were made of. Also to show how matter reacts in high energy states to prove or invalidate string, etc theories.

As for Power Absolute's question about using the Gravity controller to increase effective mass before impact, suffice it to say at near relativistic speed the gravity controller will not have a significant effect. Except for some possibilities left open due to the fact we don't actually know what will happen when an object actually reaches light speed.

Depending on which string theory is most valid the object may convert into pure energy in the form of light, it may get pushed into a higher dimension and appear to the rest of us as light, it may cease to exist, it may exit the universe as we know it, it could collapse into a black hole. We frankly don't know the answer for the same reason we haven't yet produced a working unified field theory. Relativity only tells us what happens up to the point an object reaches near light speed. The math breaks down for actual light speed except to show the behavior of light.

Maybe after we invent the math for quantum gravity will we be able to give a definite answer but not till then.

BTW, speaking of black holes, check this out

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996151

Credibility? You think this has anything to do with your credibility?

Anyway, what back tracking? Everything I've posted has been consistant.

My previous mention of fire hosing was simply a statement of fact. I never said it was reliable and your previous post suggested it was more reliable than the non lethal weapons we're discussing. I corrected that assumption, nothing more.

Nothing was being twisted. You clearly compared stun guns and the like as toys, not to be taken seriously and shouldn't replace firehosing which you described as being more effective which is not completely true as my last post pointed out.

My statement you quoted clearly noted the condition upon which such non lethal weapons would and would not be effective, if you had just bothered to read it you would have realized I never said they work all the time either. Also stun guns are not the only weapons being refered to here! Covering the whole topic is not neither backtracking nor twisting of words.

Again you miss the point of the discussion. This weapon and others like it will allow for zero casualties. There are moral ramifications to consider, along with the effectiveness of such technology.

Kinda missing the point FOG3, besides none of these are toys. Using tasers like toys is the reason they are outlawed in some states. Even non lethal weapons can cause serious harm if abused. Like any weapon their power must be respected and used responsibly. But there is a definite need for such technology for both the safety of law enforcement officers and the civilians rioting. Besides fire hosing doesn't work all the time either, there have been cases where the crowd overwhelmed the firehosing vehicale, and can only be used when an ample supply of water is available which is not always the case when dealing with riots. Not to mention people have been known to die from injuries sustained from firehosing.

The fact is most cases this particular non-lethal weapon will be used will not be against people who are immune to pain. People riot all the time and don't have to be doped up to act crazy. The device makes you feel like you're on fire and no normal person can withstand that more than a few seconds so yes it will be a very effective tool to disperse rioting crowds. For the rare more hard to take down people they can easily resort to other non-lethal weapons that are more physically effective but are less useful against large groups. Combined these weapons would allow the safe handling of even the worst of rioting crowds and that is the goal, zero casualties!

Don't worry about it Genetic, FOG3 did provide a useful link with mostly laymen examples of Einsteins theory. However, Relativity is only part of the story. Many of the FTL examples discussed so far are loop holes to the speed of light limit that Einstein himself left open as possibilities. Not to mention we have not even touched on Quantum and String theory.

The links are good for a start though, even though they don't provide complete explaination or example types.

You're confusing Warrior Guyver with W'Kar, Power Asbolute.

The friction heat was just an example of how much a standard Guyver can withstand. We were not discussing fan fic creations.

If you want to discuss shielding and other durability factors then open a new topic.

Time is one factor for FTL but it is not the only means of FTL travel. Also actual time travel requires certain conditions to be met before that occurs.

The behavior you are refering to, moving back through time, is typical of something like a theoretical particle called a tachyon.

Generally speaking though a read on basic relativity before we continue this conversation would help.

Things like the fact if you have two objects moving towards each other at the speed of light would in fact not see anything moving faster than light from each object's perspective. So Thunder Demon's example would not produce a FTL visual effect. Space and Time are dynamic and a lot more complex than conventional wisdom would lead you to believe. When an object approaches the speed of light time slows down for it.

Generally speaking though, with the Anubis example given, G1 would see Anubis appear before him before the image of him, from his previous position, vanished from his point of view. So in that sense yes it would appear Anubis went back in time but it would only be an optical illusion brought on by Anubis incredible speed and the time dilation. To G2 Anubis would only appear to travel at light speed, unless he time dilates himself as well, and G1 would appear either very slow or frozen from his perspective.

Anubis doesn't really evolve, he's repairing the damage to the W'Kar Element.

Incorrect, we have already stated W'Kar/Anubis are evolving!!!

You're erroneously assuming that repairing means it will return to its original state. This is not the case.

The repairing process is only one factor, you're ignoring the other factors such as the change of host from Creator to Human, the fact a W'Kar is not a Guyver so doesn't follow the same rules, the fact the unit is altering itself and the host with each evolution, the multidimensional properties of the W'Kar Element, and other factors such as the most obvious simple fact that Anubis was never suppose to happen. Only an evolving character would make that possible.

Actually Zagam's abilities correspond to theoretical physics of what can be possible if most present theories are correct. The speed of light is only a limitation if you insist on going through normal space. There is no limit for the movement of space itself, which is the basis for such sci-fi FTL propulsion such as Star Trek's Warp Drive. There is also time dilation which would alter the speed of light in respect to the rest of the universe. Hyper Space which allows alterations of constants and/or altering the actual distance traveled per unit time.

So generally speaking when we refer to something moving at FTL speed it is not traveling through normal space. So interaction with normal space matter is usually avoided or very limited.

Yep

We agree on how the dual control metal formed and such (we can't really argue on that). All I am saying is that if both armors are composed of the same stuff the regular armor should morph into the gigantic form as well. The combined programing should take over, and view no difference between the material types. That is what would convince me of your opinion.... something like the regular armor stretching it's arms and legs to fit inside the gigantic at the very least (though I think it has to be stretched anyway-and you disagreed with that, hence ironic). Something of a mergance.

They do merge with my theory as well, I just see no reason why you would think it would stretch the host. Stretching is unnecessary since the primary thing that gets merges is the unit. The host does get partially stretched when merged with regular unit but the Gigantic is merging with the unit more than it is the host. Since it is the organism that can readily adapt to new forms when needed and not the host then it would be more logical for the unit to simply expand upon the unit rather than stretch the host. Besides, even with the merged CM you are still dealing with two different CM's, they are simply working together. Which is why the Gigantic can still be willed off to another Guyver with a stronger Will. If it was a full merger then that wouldn't be possible.

As for the fragments, remember they are not the pure organism, they are parts that had already been given a form and function. So when cut off they die like discarded flecks of skin. The Sho monster happened because the organism had the host DNA to work with and thus was able to change its form and function using the host DNA to build from. As for energy, it was already absorbing energy if you note since it substantially increased its mass to create the full Sho monster clone from the G1 arm. Conservation of energy means it had to be absorbing energy for it to accomplish that, not to mention how energetic it was when it went after Sho. So it simply went after Sho because it instinctively recognized itself and wanted to be whole again, not because he was the only thing it could eat.

Our own bio-technology is already developing bacteria that can create complex computer chips so no, I don't believe the organism needs to be exotic dimensional energy eating lifeform in order to fill its function.

Though I do agree the CM could possibly be used to enslave other species you are assuming there are many organisms that have properties similar to that shown by the Guyver organism. Often it is the simpler answer that is true so I believe it is the same organism for all their tech. Besides, humans are another species and we all know how well the CM worked in enslaving us

Frankly, the only other species I think are used in Creator tech are simply for the DNA database they use to create the devices they need through the Guyver organism, which I believe is the template and raw material from which they work with. But you're right, we both have our own opinions on this matter.

I like your space evolution idea though. It's nice. I've got to commend you for taking that approach.

Why thank you, as always I try to be logical and to consider all the possibilities. The space origin seems to make the most sense to me, though it does beg the question of the Creators origins and how they evolved so early in the universe.

Sorry about the bad day Zeo, I had no idea. It's kinda frustrating banging our heads against eachother. Since we're both guyvers, I'm surprised we havn't given eachother serious injuries, what with the horns and all.

Fortunately I've calmed down enough to actually find that funny YoungGuyver. The basic problem is too many don't read what I post in its entirety. I'm normally a very patient and reasonable person but even I have my breaking point.

Even with your example, if the dual ring were to fit over top of the regular control metal, I would expect the programing to affect the regular armor.

That's not what I said, the dual ring is the combination of the host CM and the Outer added ring is the Remaining part of the Relic CM. The Relic gave up it's center top layer when it became the Giganitc. Basically, during the activation process the host CM extends out, much like it does when piloting a Relic, but then it plugs into the remaining layer of Relic CM to form the dual layer Giganit CM. So the reason the Relic organism takes the form of an armor is because it is being affected by the combined CM's of the Relic and host Unit. In other words the Relic adapted itself by merging its CM with the host pilot CM. Allowing the organisms of both to merge and form the Gigantic. I also never said the host gets stretched, that was your idea, I simply said if you overlayed the host unit over the Gigantic you would see the foot would be where the Giganitc's knee is.

As for the energy. Takaya himself spelled it out in the visual data files that dimensional energy was being siphoned for an organic system. Yes, the gravity controller was added. But Takaya is linking gravity and dimensional crossing. I was simply carrying the idea onward. Balcus himself said in volume six that the guyver is a transcendental life form (talking about the cell structure when they analized guyver II). All I am doing is useing an energy that we already KNOW the purple goo uses. If later translations say that the goo can use others, then I'll opt in to it.

Gravity already passes through dimensions, its the reason it is weaker over distance than the other forces of nature. Again you are assuming dimensional energy is so different that only something adapted to it could assimulate it. Transcendental simply means it does not have the normal limitations of organic life as we know it. The simple fact the armor and all the devices on it except the CM are created from the organism means it is in fact amazingly adaptable and can change itself as needed. In no way shape or form have I ever said this makes it god like. Simple conservation of energy prevents this but under the influence of the CM the organism can be made to do just about anything imagineable given enough energy, this is part of the reason I think the Relic is created from the same organism. The simple fact it can reform itself to created the Gigantic armor shows it too is highly adaptable. This in turn means the organism has already shown it can absorb virtually any form of energy since the Relic survives on thermal and solar energy.

Oh, and about evolutionary rate, perhaps it was a planet that fell in closer to the gravity well after life had already been kick started. We can talk more about this later (lack of time)

No need, the Guyver organism most like evolved in space. This would explain the lack of physical form of its own and its ability to absorb a wide spectrum of energy. It would also have exposed it to radiation that would have caused rapid evolution. Science in fact has shown that the components of life originated from space, this in turn would also have given it the time needed for such an advance lifeform to evolve so it could have been around long before Earth even cooled down enough for life to start here and would fit the time frame considering the Creator arrived here when life was just starting.

Oh, and about adaptibility (this was the philosophy remark). The guyver isn't a god. It can't adapt to absolutely anything. It has limits, this has been shown. Believe me, I tried to find any which way and possible excuse for Guyver II to still be alive. I was really hoping that the bandaged man in vol 16 was Lisker, that his armor had found a way to regenerate. Unfortunetly it's Guyot. In 22 volumes, we have seen NO evidence that any of Lisker's bio armor has survived or adapted. I meen, When Sho mega smashed Aptom and Enzyme II, an arm was left in each case, yet nothing has survived and found an alternate power source and turned into a bioboosting monster thingy. It's been over a year storywise, and still nothing. Any armor that gets cut off the host in battle, as you pointed out, seems useless unless it has a sample of host with it to go rogue (and that's without the control metal in both cases to restrict it).

All things have limits, I never said it didn't. Guyver 2 however was totally vaporized and that included the CM. This was made more clear when Takaya redid the art for that issue of the Manga. As adaptable as it is, it is still composed of organic matter so it can be destroyed just like any form of matter. Just because I say it is extremely adaptable does not mean I don't think it has limits. That is simply rediculous and I don't even know why you think I meant that. The other thing you are confusing is the assumption all the adaptability is solely from the organism. This is also not a clear representation of what I meant. It is the combination of the CM and the organism that gives it its extreme adaptability. Just like nanites needs its software to tell it what to do otherwise they are simply useless microscopic machines that might as well be paper weights except they are far too small.

Oh well, I'm out of time. I just wanted to ask, back on topic, what origins would you give the purple goo? If not from a star system where it's energy/dimension properties stand an inkling of a chance of being explained?

Partly answered this already above but to summarize, I believe the organism originated from space, probably a nebula and near forming stars. A parasitic organism it is primitive but highly adaptable under the right conditions since it can assimulate other lifeforms and take on their properties, such in the Sho monster. The Creators took this raw potential and through the CM basically used it like we intend to use Nanite technology. The CM provides the DNA blue prints the organism needs to form what ever the Creators want to Create making it the ultimate living technology. Simply altering the programming of the CM allows the organism to create anything the Creators needed. In short I believe the organism is the raw material for all Creator tech. Which is supported by the Manga considering all examples of Creator tech has a CM in it.

I.E.> Relics with their dual large CM's, The Guyver Unit's with their regular size CM's, and even the Unit Remover which has a CM that is revealed when the device opens for use.

Again I emphasis that the simple act of bringing energy from hyper space into normal space converts it so even though it started out as dimensional energy it is no longer so exotic by the time the unit starts using it from the host. So I find it illogical to assume the organism formed near a strong gravitational field that would have exposed it to dimensional energy. Basically it would have to be inside the event horizon of a black hole for this to happen naturally and that is with your suggestion of a planet getting into it after life on it had already started.

There is also the fact the Sho monster showed no dimensional ability what so ever. So the only logical conclusion is that all dimensional aspect is a factor induced by the CM. So the origin of the organism is not so exotic as you are presently thinking. Though I admit my view is also a little exotic it is in fact support with our present understanding of the origins of life in the universe which shows most of the basic elements needed to form life is already floating through space. It is simply the time scale and the fact the organism appears to have no solid physical form of its own that leads to my theory though it could also have formed in an ocean environment.