Taking them to the street

[jerrygoodman]

So begins yet another of my threads of a Marvel/Chronos conflict...

Now, in past topics, I've talked about which characters could take on Archanfel in a one-on-one fight, and how X-Day would've unfolded in the Marvel Universe.

This time around, I've been thinking...how could some of Marvel's street level heroes take on Chronos?  And I don't mean necessarily taking on zoanoids, but the organizational makeup of the Chronos institution itself.

I'm talking about characters like Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, the Punisher, Cloak & Dagger...characters who had their own first hand experiences dealing with individuals and groups that conventional law enforcerment cannot touch.

After all, even an organization like Chronos needs some type of financial and legal system in place to keep their operations running.  I imagine all of their laboratories and security isn't easy to maintain, despite all of their power.  Guys like the people I mentioned could find out the inner workings of that system...and screw it up royally.

So what're your thoughts?

[Sully]

Cap you've one issue which you've probably not accounted for but would make good story.

 

Chronos would be so rich it would make Bruce Wayne / Tony Stark look poor. They'd have so much mineral wealth and be so ingrained into the modern banking system that simply put your traditional hero simply couldn't strangle it. 

 

To put it in a simple manner, if Chronos was short of gold a Zoalord could teleport to the asteroid belt load up:

http://www.spaceanswers.com/news/the-700-quintillion-asteroid-belt/

 

They've had access to that resource a VERY long time so simply put the economy of the Chronos held world is so well funded it's shockingly impossible to destroy. 

 

To hurt Chronos you need to attack it's supply lines which are the processing factories, stop people turning etc. But even that would be near impossible to top for a single hero.  Even if you take out the zoalords Chronos has being involved with rich families for a LONG time, so this happening in a world where the Chronos leadership has left in the Ark for example would still be challenged by the very well funded systems Chronos left behind. 

[jerrygoodman]

That is true...but I am compelled to point out where you mentioned "...for a single hero."

No one of them would be able to crack Chronos's infrastructure by themselves, but a joint effort would make some headway.

[Gazham]

If you include groups like x-force, x-men etc. I think some could stand a good chance and singular branches of chronos. Shape shifters would be very handy.

It would have to be a branch by branch attack. Look at what agito achieved on his own. I know he had inside knowledge and access, but it could be done

[Sully]

If you include groups like x-force, x-men etc. I think some could stand a good chance and singular branches of chronos. Shape shifters would be very handy.

It would have to be a branch by branch attack. Look at what agito achieved on his own. I know he had inside knowledge and access, but it could be done

 

Agito is a single person army, a Guyver and then Gigantic Dark. He also then gained the power of the Libertus zoanoids and a Zoalord (her ability to set Chronos Zoanoids against each other helped turn the tied in close battles when things got dangerious. 

 

Simply put the characters listed by Jerry do not have the firepower of a Guyver. So for it to work would need great teamwork. By themselves could be taken out by sheer numbers alone. They also have the issue as they take out buildings and move to the next city etc Chronos and its core of engineers would be rebuilding before you know it. 

[jerrygoodman]

Sometimes it isn't about firepower.  Sometimes it's a matter of skill, wit...and being just slightly smarter than the other guy.

[Salkafar]

Luke Cage is stronger than any known Zoanoid. And Iron Fist, Cloak and Dagger have unquantifiable powers. But the Punisher? That guy is so... overplayed. He is a factor in the Marvel universe, and boy, he really shouldn't be.

[jerrygoodman]

I had a feeling you'd chime in sooner or later, Salkafar...

But I'm not actually focusing on power sets here.  What I'm trying to discuss is ways that characters who aren't super-soldiers or gods can take on Chronos.

Just to give you an idea, here's a snippet from the pages of New Avengers...

 

 

[Salkafar]

The problem here is processing. Once somebody is processed, that's it. They are inducted into Chronos and there's nothing you can do about it because this is what mankind is supposed to be. Humans are supposed to be controlled by Zoalords.

 

Chronos currently opts for voluntary processing (Was there ever fall-out from the Tokyo incident, when thousands of processed people were killed by Cablar?) but there is no reason why they should in the process of conquering a hostile world. Just grab as many prisoners as you can and process them as quickly as is feasible. We know they are capable of running facilities where thousands of people can be processed at the same time. And every convert is one more soldier. Not to mention still also the person they used to be.

 

...The 'street heroes' would be in deeeeep caca. The big heroes could destroy Chronos by taking out the Zoalord Council. But these guys? ...Well, actually, Cloak might. For those not in the know: Cloak and Dagger's powers are mystical in nature; his are dark, hers are light. The Zoalords have no amenable defenses against them; they are all incredibly strong and I must assume they are also mentally powerful individuals. But Cloak's power comes from what amounts to the Devil's clinically depressed nephew. If he takes people into his dark dimension (not to be confused with the Dark Dimension, the realm of Dormammu) their souls are exposed to the naked space of the astral underworld. It drags your mind through its worst, lowest point of despair, alienation and terror. I just don't think any of them measure up. Although Mizuki and Sho probably would, I suspect.

[Sully]

 The big heroes could destroy Chronos by taking out the Zoalord Council.

 

I'd disagree there. Even taking out the Council will not end Chronos. It's too ingrained in the Guyver world. So far the Guyver story has focused on areas like Japan and the USA, both 1st world countries and very little of other countries.

 

I feel soon as any "anti Chronos rebellion" ventured into the "3rd world" it would falter faster than XDay. Do you really think the people in that part of the world would want to go back to "freedom" where warlords and religious fanatics cause widespread misery?

 

No you might, and it's a very slim might have a chance of turning the US people against Chronos But the rest of the world not a hope in hell. The moment people realise "oh drenn you want to go back to a system that allowed famine, raping and pillaging to happen, only stopping it if our country has oil!" will make any resistance movement falter. Chronos offer choice and protection from chaos, healthcare, food and education.

 

Any freedom fighter group would also need some amazing leaders to pull it off not just fighters. Could Mavel heroes pull it off, yea they could but focusing on strength alone wouldn't work. You need the brains too those capable of giving the world what Chronos does but without the cost of being a zoanoid.

[jerrygoodman]

One method that could help, collect some vital intel on Chronos that, if made public, could give them a major egg in the face, and mess up their public image.  After all, not all battles are fought behind masks...





 

[*PrimalNemesis]

Does anyone think there is a way to keep Chronos's more positive policies in place while removing the Zoalords from power? Chronos did in fact bring about world peace (even if it's a false peace). Even if Chronos was eventually destroyed their data and tech would more than likely survive. I don't need to mention the implications of such a scenario.

[Salkafar]

 

 The big heroes could destroy Chronos by taking out the Zoalord Council.

 

I'd disagree there. Even taking out the Council will not end Chronos.

 

 

What is Chronos without the Zoalords?

[Sully]

 

 

 The big heroes could destroy Chronos by taking out the Zoalord Council.

 

I'd disagree there. Even taking out the Council will not end Chronos.

 

 

What is Chronos without the Zoalords?

 

 

Look at the most recent books.

 

The Lisker Family has being around and survived the American Civil war in command efectively of the US region of Chronos. Even without the Zoalords Chronos will survive.

 

Considering how rich people rule the world at the mo in reaility and with stealth corperate aggreements like TTIP in the world today do you really being aggreed without our own elected people telling us about it sayign simply "trust us", and the world just sitting down and taking it. Look at Greece and the way that country is run. A guy bought a treatment drug and then 100 timed it's price and the sad thing is was capable of doing it and even when shamed out of it, he i  still is going to make a huge profit out the health of other people. Reaility of the world and how it runs sucks, the world of Chronos at least I'll never have to worry about cancer, going hungry and etc.

 

Whatever force has wants to take on Chronos would have to show why would we trust them over the reaility we face.

 

Mavel super heroes unleashed from comic resets that like to return Earth to what people know could do this. But the idea that take out the 12 and Chronos just dies is silly. They spent 400 years + setting this up. Killing 12 people no matter who they are will not change that.

[jerrygoodman]

 

 

 The big heroes could destroy Chronos by taking out the Zoalord Council.

 

I'd disagree there. Even taking out the Council will not end Chronos.

 

 

What is Chronos without the Zoalords?

 

HYDRA without Baron Strucker...is still HYDRA.

[Salkafar]

HYDRA without Baron Strucker...is still HYDRA.

 

Scattered, fighting amongst itself and ineffective, in other words.

 

Chronos is Chronos because of the Zoalords. Without the council, there is no ideological basis. The organization only ever existed to serve the purposes of Archanfel. Without him, Chronos would fall apart. Hell! Chronos is falling apart with him! The knowledge is now widely available. Without unquestioning loyalty imposed by Zoalord control, Chronos would desintegrate into any number of smaller organizations, each with their own purpose.

 

Now that the fact that Zoanoids exist is global knowledge, it would be a matter of time before any number of non-Chronos organizations figure out how to create Zoanoids. Which would lead to endless complications, because the process is more than a physical change. And, again, no unquestioning loyalty to a Zoalord.

 

Zeus' Thunderbolt knows how to create a Zoalord, so presumably they would. Now there is a new organization to take control of the world's Zoanoid population...

 

...This Earth really is a world without hope. It's either chaos or oppression.

[Sully]

Scattered, fighting amongst itself and ineffective, in other words.

 

Chronos is Chronos because of the Zoalords. Without the council, there is no ideological basis. The organization only ever existed to serve the purposes of Archanfel. Without him, Chronos would fall apart. Hell! Chronos is falling apart with him! The knowledge is now widely available. Without unquestioning loyalty imposed by Zoalord control, Chronos would desintegrate into any number of smaller organizations, each with their own purpose.

 

Now that the fact that Zoanoids exist is global knowledge, it would be a matter of time before any number of non-Chronos organizations figure out how to create Zoanoids. Which would lead to endless complications, because the process is more than a physical change. And, again, no unquestioning loyalty to a Zoalord.

 

Zeus' Thunderbolt knows how to create a Zoalord, so presumably they would. Now there is a new organization to take control of the world's Zoanoid population...

 

...This Earth really is a world without hope. It's either chaos or oppression.

 

 

The Chronos Zoalords done nothing for 400 years though in terms of battle. It was raw leadership. 

 

Leadership is replaceable and even with it's setup which was careful and planned it was said to be Guyot who modrenised the organisation, that was all done pre his zoalord status. He was targeted to be killed off during his accession to be a Zoalord by Dr Yamamura's who used his own Prototypes to attempt to kill him. 

 

That in itself shows it's not just Zoalords that rule Chronos. That they have a leadership structure and it's inspected and vetted. Mostly by humans. 

[jerrygoodman]

 

...This Earth really is a world without hope. It's either chaos or oppression.

 

Sorry, Salkafar.  But I just refuse to believe that.  There's always hope.

[*Kenji Murakami]

 

 

...This Earth really is a world without hope. It's either chaos or oppression.

 

Sorry, Salkafar.  But I just refuse to believe that.  There's always hope.

 

 

Study the situation in Somalia, or read about Da'esh, and then say that. That's what you'd be talking about going back to, without Chronos.

[jerrygoodman]

I won't argue that those are bad situations, Kenji.  But answer me this...is it worth living in a society ruled by a select group of individuals who view the whole of humanity as nothing more than a loaded gun to use for their purposes?