*Jess♥ Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 proposition. if I can find a person in japan to work with, then instead of having the books shipped to me and then shipped to you, there could be a batch of books that are shipped to a location in japan to be disposed of. the costg of shipping would be completely partially removed and the cost would be greatly descreased. this ay be useful for people who do not want a copy of the book but wish to keep reading the monthly chapters. the moral and legal issue is dealt with, as teh physical copy of the book would absolutely be purchased. feed my back please. edit: clarified on shipping being removed... of course there would be a shipping cost to whoever accepts the books in japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver0 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 It is an intersting propostion, I guess it will all come down to what the final cost will be. As soon as that can be determined then I can provide an honest answer. But it is a propostion worth persuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 doing some calculations now.... looks like we could do it for £6 perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Boosted Dude Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 To be disposed of??? there could be a batch of books that are shipped to a location in japan to be disposed of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 To be disposed of??? yep. well if a person were donating their book, something would have to happen to it. I have emailed a friend and asked him if he is willing to receive the books and do what he wants with them. He may burn them, or put them in waste paper, or gift them to his friends or give them away as prizes to somebody, or even re-sell them as used goods. The idea would be that the person who chooses to go this route on this site, would be completely relinquishing ownership of the book. what happens to it after that.... could be anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorLaser Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I support this idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Boosted Dude Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 To be disposed of??? yep. well if a person were donating their book, something would have to happen to it. I have emailed a friend and asked him if he is willing to receive the books and do what he wants with them. He may burn them, or put them in waste paper, or gift them to his friends or give them away as prizes to somebody, or even re-sell them as used goods. The idea would be that the person who chooses to go this route on this site, would be completely relinquishing ownership of the book. what happens to it after that.... could be anything. You phrase your proposition so unfavourably! I thought at first that maybe you meant sort of 'donating' them, or having them bought just to be bought, but I couldn't be sure. Well it's an interesting concept for sure... I'm interested in seeing how/if it goes into action based on the response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 unfavourably? i'm not sure what you mean. is it perhaps a product of me being tired when I wrote it? how would you phrase it to make it sound better? I say disposed of, just to make it clear that the person would be relinquishing ownership of the book at the moment after the sale of the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 i get the idea that people would want to pay less and still be able to read along, but not wanting to pay for the book because they dont want a book is strange to me. anyway each to their own. i would ask they be recycled rather than burnt though!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guyver0 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I am for this idea, it would make things easier on all parties. (Specifically Ryuki) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of anything to make Guyver more accessible, but bear in mind that buying a book you never see and it being given to someone you don't know so they can enjoy it is exactly the same as buying someone a DVD as a present.If someone likes a new Oasis album, giving them your CD whilst you keep the mp3's you ripped onto your iTunes is exactly the same as illegally downloading a torrent. Until a global e-content distributor starts selling licensed Guyver PDFs or iBooks or whatnot, the only way for Guyver fans to play by the rules, support the artist and not bother with importing a physical book they can't read (come on, folks, a spare weekend with a bottle of correction fluid and you can transfer the scanlation text) is to buy a book they'll never see and entrust someone to, on their behalf, render it unusable by anyone else (recycling would be preferable to a book bonfire IMO). If you want to introduce a stranger to Guyver with a physical copy, by all means buy them one for World Book Day. That would be outstanding Guyver Advocacy! But remember that it's their copy, and if the artist isn't already providing free digital content there's zero legal-technical argument and a very weak ethical argument that buying them that gift entitles you to a digital copy for yourself. Having a book printed so it can be pulped just to feel like we've bought a software license key is a funny way of doing things, but that's capitalism for you. Edited March 29, 2013 by Lindsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share Posted March 29, 2013 Lindsay I am very grateful for your input and I agree with what you say completely. I've been talking to my friend in Japan and he said he would be willing to receive the books but if I demand that he destroys them, there is not benefit for him to go to the trouble of accepting them and doing the work of destroying them. It is especially difficult because he doesn't speak english so I can't explain to him the reasoning behind it effectively. I think that in order to make sure they are destroyed, I would have to be able to talk to somebody who speaks english fluently. I don't know any guyver fans in Japan who speak fluent english. ....... I know somebody who lives in East Asia. But I don't know if they would be willing to destroy the books. What if I had them shipped to myself and I destroyed them? That would be more costly though. hmm, I wonder. could I just have them shipped directly to a recycling plant? That might be possible. feedback please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkafar Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 I wouldn't. I want to own the volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unit_01 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) I agree with Lindsay,but I must add that willingly destroying Guyver things just to me does not sound very fan like. Edited March 30, 2013 by Unit_01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) At the end of the day, it's twelve quid/20 bucks for owning a high quality printed copy. Takaya puts a lot of effort into giving us stunning vistas, compelling alien hardware designs, and ruddy DINOSAURS FIGHTING CAVEMEN IN BIO-BOOSTER ARMOUR; why spoil it with scanning artifacts? I don't see why anyone with more than a passing interest in Guyver and a couple of tenners of luxuries budget is pausing for any reason other than to consider how many copies they'll order for their friends who half-remember that awesome ultraviolence series Manga Video put out in the 90's. Edited March 30, 2013 by Lindsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Boosted Dude Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Why destroy them? If you had them shipped to yourself Ryuki, you could always bung them on ebay or something or use them as free giveaways or something to that effect. the book has already been purchased and so the money has gone to where it belongs, so there's nothing ethically wrong with you selling them on for your own profit. I get really irked at the fact that you are willing to destroy them!! There are so many other things that you could do. I have yet to purchase any books through this new method so perhaps my input is not relevant but this is just what i feel reading through this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 I was responding to what Lindsay said. I pretty much agree with what he was getting at. but I certainly take on board everyone's views. these are not easy decisions to make. I'm thinking in the following fashion... guyver fans who wish to pay a lower price for guyver manga, can possibly get the books for a cheaper price from amazon or cdjapan or somewhere else when it is released, but they won't be getting to view the chapters as they are released. in a sense, the biggest advantage to pre-ordering a book is that we are able to read the chapters each month instead of when it is released as a tankoubon. after all, anyone who buys a volume 30 after it is released, can show us a photo of them with their manga and we will send them a translation. so it's kinda cost vs. immediacy in that respect. trust me, I don't like the idea of destroying comic books. but it all depends on whether we can justify not doing so. according to what Lindsay said, we cannot give the book to another person to enjoy whilst retaining the right to read it. in terms of software licenses, it just doesn't work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted March 31, 2013 Author Share Posted March 31, 2013 how does this look... when a person buys a book, they have full privileges to read that book. they can commit it to memory if they like and recall that book any time they wish.then after reading it they can sell it as second-hand. or they can gift it to another person.then that other person can read it. so as BBdude suggested, there is nothing wrong with re-selling a book.now, What Lindsay said is also important.sending these books to another person to do what they like with it, this is not reliable. if that other person sells the books that person makes a personal profit and that is perhaps not desirable by members of this site. even if that person is a member and a guyver fan.honestly, he's a really nice guy, really generous and friendly. but that's neither here nor there.also, it is ropey on ethical terms. the book never makes it to hte translator or to the person who bought it. in terms of ethics, I am thinking the following diagrams might help. lower cost 1book bought -> book arrives at other persons house ->Book enters Japanese second-hand market -> 2book bought -> book sent to recycling plant -> medium cost 3book bought -> book sent to translator -> translation sent to you ->book becomes second-hand goods ->funding/prize for japan-legend and/or a potential new guyver fan -> higher cost 4book bought -> book sent to translator -> book and translation sent to you -> book remains with you or later becomes second-hand goods -> what do you think are the resultant effects on sales of guyver manga in general and what do you think are the ethical concerns? I am thinking that the books entering the Japanese second-hand market and entering the western second-hand market would have different impact on the sales of the new copies of the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natsuwockawocka Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hi I am new here, but would it not be possible to just donate the volumes to local Japanese libraries? This seems like it would be better for the environment and is a non profit option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 That would damage the Japanese Guyver market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 I think we need to be clear on something here though. 'profit' is not the issue here. If Guyver Advocacy wanted to make a profit for selling Guyver books, we could. The issue is cost to the consumer. People want it cheaper. We make it as cheap as we can by waiving any intentional profit. We may end up making a small profit due to the amount of leeway we provided or I might actually make a financial loss. I really don't think it is fair for anyone to talk about us making sure it's non profit, when there is a chance I will make a personal loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natsuwockawocka Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Sorry I didn't mean to insult you by saying non profit. I meant as in if they were to be sold on the Japanese second hand market by the person they are sent to in japan. I also think it would just be such a waste to destroy the books. I doubt Yoshiki Takaya would by happy to hear his works are being bought for this purpose. I understand its all about getting money to the correct people to show our support, just not sure if this is the right way to go about it? Anyways I don't want to get into an argument over this just my thoughts on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Thanks for clarifying I understand what you are saying now, a way to ensure we aren't just giving them to somebody who then sells them for pure profit. the current way we have set up, if a person does 'forfeit' their book, it will be used to support Guyver Advocacy. I should clarify on that. currently we have set up the medium and high cost scheme. The low cost scheme is undesirable. I do have a friend in Japan who is willing to accept books, but the main problem with that is that some people will choose that problem with no intention of ever owning the book. In this screwy moral area, I believe The Guyver Advocacy project in general are not satisfied with that. The reason is that it displays a sense of a person 'paying for scanlations' and that is not what we want at all. We need to be clear that we wish people to buy the book itself in order for us to freely share our work. we allow the pledge system (medium cost) to work in the way that it is working, so that we can ensure an alternative that is in line with our goals. either create a Guyver sale, or increase the visibility of Guyver in the west. My feeling is, if we leave the books to recirculate into Japan, we undermine the marketing efforts of Kadokawa. Guyver is actively marketed and sold in Japan but it is not in the west. I understand that the cost is still quite high. This is not something I am happy about, but until we get a higher rate of orders, we cannot order in bulk. Currently we have 28 pre-orders. There is no bulk ordering company that would entertain a discount with such an order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzyme-eternal Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Ironically this would have been a good idea for me when the order for translation thing first started but now that my cousin is actually buying and receiving the books for me I wouldn't be able to use this new system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jess♥ Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Book 31 will be a fresh order so when we get there, you can choose a different order method if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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