Cloned Guyver control medal?

[Guest Firehead]

Does anyone know if the control medal of Valcuria is made of the same substance as a normal one?

[river_chaos]

It's not stated, but more than likely it is not made of the same material as a real Control Medal.

[*Jess♥]

i'm pretty sure it is a separate material. I remember somebody made it very clear that the surface texture of the metal is vastly different. valkyria's CM is rather dull in comparison.

also, barcas made it clear that the material that makes up the guyvers CM is exotic and not present on earth.

he said that when analysing apollons armour.

[river_chaos]

Come to think of it: what could you use to make an Artificial Medal? High grade titanium?

[Super Existence]

There was two things that bothered me in Guyver recent events, Exceed mode and the ACM.

Everything up until then have been relatively realistic to a degree but it bothered me that Cronos could create something so utterly alien as the ACM.

Granted it doesn't work as ell as the real thing you can buy them creating Zoanoids and so forth as that is not too far in the future for us anyway and is also more manipulating genes and DNA than exotic technology.

Suddenly they have just 'decided to create and ACM which is clearly some advanced nano or even femto technology, a crystal based molecular computer that seemed too advanced for Cronos, too alien to replicate

there hardware has always been slightly more advanced than today but not THAT advanced, never mind the software to run it.

[*Jess♥]

they managed to produce zoacrystals and if our understanding is correct, a CM is not TOO different from the zoacrystal structure.

the artificial control medal could be similar to a dummy crystal.

if we remember that metals are generally crystalline in their structure, then it makes sense for it to look like metal and also be crystalline.

with the exceed mode, I just think we know hardly anything about it yet. the whole thing just seems so bizarre. I think we need some more data. maybe we need some tetsuro introspection.

[Super Existence]

Possibly with the zoacrystal component. If it was more an organic crystal structure I'd buy that, if it's purely tech I just don't buy it.

Exceed bugs me just because the dramatic transformation.

I don;t like how even the DCM gets bigger and suddenly in exceed more GG now longer has any restraints as in power consumption and never mind what would now become of the Giga smasher.

It just feels to me like with Exceed he stopped having any barriers and became invincible which takes all risk and threat out of the story which is why I don't dig superman.

True we may need more data and I hope we find out more of the powers and limitations of the Exceed.

[daveblackeye152]

I'm sure he won't over use the Exceed, which was my biggest worry for a while. We last saw it in book 25 and it took three books to come back. And after six months Sho hasn't started flying around and stomping on Chrono left and right with it.

Part of me thinks that maybe the Creator's ships are akin to Guyvers? Or off the same technology, maybe somewhere in the Relic a Guyver unit was used as a base and it could grow into a vessel if needed.

[durendal]

Possibly with the zoacrystal component. If it was more an organic crystal structure I'd buy that, if it's purely tech I just don't buy it. Exceed bugs me just because the dramatic transformation. I don;t like how even the DCM gets bigger and suddenly in exceed more GG now longer has any restraints as in power consumption and never mind what would now become of the Giga smasher. It just feels to me like with Exceed he stopped having any barriers and became invincible which takes all risk and threat out of the story which is why I don't dig superman. True we may need more data and I hope we find out more of the powers and limitations of the Exceed.

Precisely why the Advents ran away from earth with their tails between their legs. A Guyver Unit, in the hands of a human, is that uber powerful. Why do you think an advance species of aliens was that scared of a Guyver even though Alchanfel alone could easily handle them?

[Johnleprekan]

I would have to disagree with the titanium idea. If it has a high luster and crystalline structure, it is most likely made of a very hard material. Titanium is durable but not hard. So if they were to try and replicate it, they probably wouldn't use titanium.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Johnleprekan

[RazorLaser]

I thought the CM was remains of G2's, and that they just 'repaired it' and made an artificial unit. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[*Jess♥]

guyver 2's control medal was destroyed.

if it was a repaired control medal then it wouldn't be called an artificial control medal anyway.

barcas made it pretty clear in book 26.

[RazorLaser]

guyver 2's control medal was destroyed.

if it was a repaired control medal then it wouldn't be called an artificial control medal anyway.

barcas made it pretty clear in book 26.

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that.

It's been so long since reading them and my point of reference is usually the OVA. I thought G2's CM just fell out when G1 punched it and he only destroyed his body with the Megasmasher but not the actual CM.

[Zoaknight]

Come to think of it: what could you use to make an Artificial Medal? High grade titanium?

Perhaps they used metal akin to the navigational spheres of an Advent ship? I mean, I assume the Ark has those spheres too, maybe several given how much larger it is than a Relic ship.

If not, then I suspect the ACM would be made of whatever would be considered the most durable metal on earth, OR, maybe somesort of Chronos made "bio-metal" akin to but not identical to Advent CMs. Even if the ACM isn't equal to the real CM or still incomplete, I'm sure Chronos would make an effort to make it as durable as possible, especially since its a prototype intended to eventually create a working complete Guyver unit for Archanfel (no way Barcus was gonna give the final product to anyone but the boss). What surprises me however, is that only ONE ACM exists as far as we know, you'd think Chronos would have made mutiple prototypes for testing on human hosts, no way they were gonna get it right on the first try and bond an untested unit to their supreme ruler afterall.

[*Jess♥]

no the ark doesn't have nav spheres. that is why it has the command column with all those seats.

the ark was grown from a small part of the destroyed relic. the nav spheres from that relic are the spheres that became the first gigantic unit.

the material that makes up the control metal does not exist on earth. this would most likely be the same material that makes up the nav spheres, since they are rendered in the same way by takaya-sensei.

the material that makes up the artificial control metal is a duller material.

[Zoaknight]

no the ark doesn't have nav spheres. that is why it has the command column with all those seats. the ark was grown from a small part of the destroyed relic. the nav spheres from that relic are the spheres that became the first gigantic unit. the material that makes up the control metal does not exist on earth. this would most likely be the same material that makes up the nav spheres, since they are rendered in the same way by takaya-sensei. the material that makes up the artificial control metal is a duller material.

In that case, I wonder what would make the best substitute for the space metal used for the Uranus made CMs....My first guess would be Titanium, since I thought that was the toughest alloy on earth, though Johnleprekan says that while titanium is durable, its not hard (doesn't make alot of sense to me honestly since I figure that a metal would have to be hard in order to be durable in the first place lol).

Are there any other metals on earth that rival titanium? I would figure the next metal down the list would be steel, which I thought was weaker than titanium.

Whatever Barcus used for the ACM, it had to be something tough that wouldn't break easily (not that a control medal is meant to be bashed or beaten given the role it plays in controlling the bio booster organism lol).

[*Jess♥]

whoever said barcas made it?

anyway, I think you are being far too presumptuous.

here, we know nothing of the actual functioning of the control metal. we know nothing of how it does what it does and therefore what properties it may require.

there may be any number of properties that may be required. it may need to be resistant to corrosion, therefore gold would be the best. but gold is a very soft metal. things like iron, very hard, but brittle. will snap easier than stainless steel. some metals will have better conductivity. copper would be most suitable in that case.

at this point only the nameless cronos scientists who created it will have any clue of the required properties and what metals or alloy then may have needed to use to construct such a thing.

(there is a hint here that the metal is durable to particle weapons, but weaker to blunt forces. guyver 2 CM was damaged by being slammed into a rock. guyver 1's control metal was the last part of him to survive the megasmasher blast.)

[Zoaknight]

whoever said barcas made it? anyway, I think you are being far too presumptuous. here, we know nothing of the actual functioning of the control metal. we know nothing of how it does what it does and therefore what properties it may require. there may be any number of properties that may be required. it may need to be resistant to corrosion, therefore gold would be the best. but gold is a very soft metal. things like iron, very hard, but brittle. will snap easier than stainless steel. some metals will have better conductivity. copper would be most suitable in that case. at this point only the nameless cronos scientists who created it will have any clue of the required properties and what metals or alloy then may have needed to use to construct such a thing. (there is a hint here that the metal is durable to particle weapons, but weaker to blunt forces. guyver 2 CM was damaged by being slammed into a rock. guyver 1's control metal was the last part of him to survive the megasmasher blast.)

Well, I just figure that since Barcus is Chronos's chief scientist, he had to have at least supervised the creation of the ACM, seems like a task he'd want to handle personally given how complex the creation of a guyver must be, not to mention all the trouble Chronos has had with Guyvers in the past (wouldn't want any of their scientists or other staff accidentally bonding to it, or have a lab accident where the bio booster organism runs wild or something). I mean, I know Chronos has other scientists, but since he's their best and brightest, it seems like he'd be the most likely candidate to be responsible for the ACM's design and construction.

The ACM Guyver unit may also be a fairly recent creation given that Amniculus, the former leader of the North American branch, had no knowledge of the device's existence until Valcuria's escape. You'd think he'd have known about something as dangerous as a man-made guyver unit stored within his former headquarters if he'd still been around during its creation, so it was probably a project began sometime after he took control of the Japan Branch following the death of Purgstall.

Speaking of which, how many human scientists/staff members does Chronos have left at this point? If I recall correctly, Agito convinced Hekkering to go along with his plans PARTLY because Hekkering knew any un-optimized personnel in Chronos were slowly being weeded out following the events of X-Day, i.e. no more need for staff kept in check by the threat of viral infection anymore, if they couldn't/wouldn't become zoanoids they were now being deemed obsolete.

[*Jess♥]

Well, I just figure that since Barcus is Chronos's chief scientist, he had to have at least supervised the creation of the ACM, seems like a task he'd want to handle personally given how complex the creation of a guyver must be, not to mention all the trouble Chronos has had with Guyvers in the past (wouldn't want any of their scientists or other staff accidentally bonding to it, or have a lab accident where the bio booster organism runs wild or something).

that's interesting, but you really need to stop making these kinds of assumptions. especially since we read in the manga how barcas explains how cronos scientists constructed the ACM and his wording in no way indicates that he had a hand in it's construction. also bearing in mind that he is the head scientist of a worldwide organisation, he is a very busy man.

also, old bal has been more or less second in command to alkanfel, being the oldest of all of them, venerable old man.

it's actually far more likely that hekkering was in charge of the project earlier on, since he was one of the head scientists in arizona base.

[*Jess♥]

i think shin has been in japan section for quite some time now. it's been at least 6 months i'm sure. I doubt the artificial guyver unit would have been stored for that long, but it was constructedf in arizona. arizona is not in the jurisdiction of north american branch is it? it was based in north america but it was the central command so was not under north america, north america was under central command.

so I think it's perfectly reasonable that shin hasn't heard about it yet, these kind of things are generally kept quiet especially with what guyot did.

[Zoaknight]

Well, I just figure that since Barcus is Chronos's chief scientist, he had to have at least supervised the creation of the ACM, seems like a task he'd want to handle personally given how complex the creation of a guyver must be, not to mention all the trouble Chronos has had with Guyvers in the past (wouldn't want any of their scientists or other staff accidentally bonding to it, or have a lab accident where the bio booster organism runs wild or something).

that's interesting, but you really need to stop making these kinds of assumptions. especially since we read in the manga how barcas explains how cronos scientists constructed the ACM and his wording in no way indicates that he had a hand in it's construction. also bearing in mind that he is the head scientist of a worldwide organisation, he is a very busy man. also, old bal has been more or less second in command to alkanfel, being the oldest of all of them, venerable old man. it's actually far more likely that hekkering was in charge of the project earlier on, since he was one of the head scientists in arizona base.

Well, I wasn't stating it as a fact, just making an educated guess based on what we know of Barcus and Chronos, theories and hypothesis are okay right?

Hekkering was stationed at the Arizona base and specialized in Zoalord biology right? Doesn't seem likely that he'd have had a hand in the ACM Guyver's creation if it was made in a separate Chronos base, the one in Washington, plus, seems like something he'd have mentioned to Agito by now if he'd ever been part of such a project, right?

[*Jess♥]

Whatever Barcus used for the ACM, it had to be something tough that wouldn't break easily (not that a control medal is meant to be bashed or beaten given the role it plays in controlling the bio booster organism lol).

you didn't state it as fact? so tell me exactly how this comes across that you said?

I'm honestly astounded that you could write something like this in such a cavalier manner.

how about i type things like this :- when guyot had sex with alkanfel, do you think he was sore?

what is people reaction? "when did that happen?!"

such utter disregard for separating your own ideas and canon facts is a blatant disrespect of other people. if it happens again, I will be handing out warnings. reread the manga, and separate your own ideas from canon. I am not going to fish through my manga each time you say something, to check YOUR facts. I check my own facts that should be enough for each of us.

[*Jess♥]

Hekkering was stationed at the Arizona base and specialized in Zoalord biology right? Doesn't seem likely that he'd have had a hand in the ACM Guyver's creation if it was made in a separate Chronos base, the one in Washington, plus, seems like something he'd have mentioned to Agito by now if he'd ever been part of such a project, right?

problems are underlined.

specialised in zoalord biology? last time i checked, he was merely 'experienced processing zoanoids'. please check it.

made in washington? the data was sent to arizona for study. why would they move the experiment? barcas said it was stored in washington. even if we were to infer anything, we would infer that it was worked on in arizona and stored in washington.

he'd have mentioned it to agito? who's to say he hasn't?

[Zoaknight]

Whatever Barcus used for the ACM, it had to be something tough that wouldn't break easily (not that a control medal is meant to be bashed or beaten given the role it plays in controlling the bio booster organism lol).

you didn't state it as fact? so tell me exactly how this comes across that you said? I'm honestly astounded that you could write something like this in such a cavalier manner. how about i type things like this :- when guyot had sex with alkanfel, do you think he was sore? what is people reaction? "when did that happen?!" such utter disregard for separating your own ideas and canon facts is a blatant disrespect of other people. if it happens again, I will be handing out warnings. reread the manga, and separate your own ideas from canon. I am not going to fish through my manga each time you say something, to check YOUR facts. I check my own facts that should be enough for each of us.

I apologize for my carelessness, it was an honest mistake, I'll be more careful next time. To be fair though, it was never my intent to offend or anger you or anyone else, I thought this was a place for casual and fun discussion and debate of the Guyver series, now that I know how seriously you take such things, I'll try to avoid such slip ups again. I don't wish to be on anyone's bad side, I merely wish to chat Guyver with fellow fans without fear of upsetting anyone.

[*Jess♥]

I apologize for my carelessness, it was an honest mistake, I'll be more careful next time. To be fair though, it was never my intent to offend or anger you or anyone else, I thought this was a place for casual and fun discussion and debate of the Guyver series, now that I know how seriously you take such things, I'll try to avoid such slip ups again. I don't wish to be on anyone's bad side, I merely wish to chat Guyver with fellow fans without fear of upsetting anyone.

I also feel badly for the situation, I am happy that you are intent to be more careful and i apologise for making you feel uncomfortable. it is very important though.

I understand that it wasn't intentional but it can cause a lot of confusion and problems.

as long as you try your best to avoid such things i do hope that we can move past this and discuss happily