Shō Fukamachi versus Sean Barker

[odin]

I have yet to see the Manga to see what Sho is really capable of but i have seen the Anime and something that i have noticed is that if Sho were to face Sean from Guyver 2 The dark hero (under some weird case of event) , he would lose without putting a decent fight , i know that they have the same unit in witch they would be equal in strength but in skill is a different story , these are the reasons why i say it :

Sho on the Anime has learned to use the gravity orb ,frequency blades ,the head beam , mega smasher ,Hyper sense , sonic busters and the gravity cannon and can barely beat a Hyper Zoanoid on is own ,got owned by Guyver 2 and had to transform into gigantic Guyver in order to defeat Zektor ( i think thats his name ) AND yet Sean only knows to use the mega smasher , high frequency blades (in witch he uses a lot and more better than sho) and the head beam and was able to beat 1 Zoalord when he was barely starting to be the Guyver and could hold his own against a Guyver ZOANOID (witch is probably as strong as Zektor ) im not saying much but i just found it uncool that sho is so weak having learned all that and yet sean is super powerful without knowing even half of the weapons the G unit has so i think if Sean were to face each other with all their powers learned (gigantic and exceed too of course ) Sean would be the one who would win, i think not even Guyver 3 would beat Sean if they had all unlocked too considering that Guyver 3 could barely do anything against Zektor , but maybe im only putting to much thought over it.

[Larz Zahn]

well... sean takes like... 5 minutes to kill a low class zoanoid. sho takes them out left and right.

sean took out a zoalord true... but that zoalord had its defenses lowered and sean was well within the barrier that the zoalord can raise. and the suit was more or less defending itself. not sean persay.

and the Guyver zoanoid was walking all over sean, but the suit malfunctioned and had a bullet impact its control medal.

if you read in the manga, especially in book 25 and 26 you get to see just how much stronger, and smarter sho has become. hes matured quite a bit.

sean, in the first movie, has some rudementary martial arts skills, which he probably improved by the second movie. and in the second movie, he had a full year to come to terms and adapt to the movements of his unit...

i dont know if sho has reached a full year yet of active time, im not gonna count the time he was in the coccoon cause he wasnt really out and about.

[odin]

well... sean takes like... 5 minutes to kill a low class zoanoid. sho takes them out left and right.

Thats true...but the ones sean faced are always experienced zoanoids and the only experienced zoanoids sho faces are the Hyper ones and he has a hard time with them, the ones he kills left and right are mostly common people that had just turned, you have to take that in consideration at least.

and the Guyver zoanoid was walking all over sean, but the suit malfunctioned and had a bullet impact its control medal.

hey, yes ...sean was getting beaten by the Guyver zoanoid but he put up a decent fight against him and Guyver Zoanoid is basically stronger than G2 , besides sho could not land a single blow to G2 and he only was able to beat him when his armor started to malfunction.

if you read in the manga, especially in book 25 and 26 you get to see just how much stronger, and smarter sho has become. hes matured quite a bit.

Ill have to read that once im able .....

sean, in the first movie, has some rudementary martial arts skills, which he probably improved by the second movie. and in the second movie, he had a full year to come to terms and adapt to the movements of his unit...

witch is why i say it , sean does not have nearly as many abilities as sho and yet sean has preformed way better against opponents of equal power so to speak to to the ones sho faced.

[Moonraker One]

No offense to fans of the movie, but the movies were so god-awful that they shouldn't seriously be considered.

That, and the fact that the zoanoids were sort of watered down to fit American film audiences (which is different from American anime audiences, who are much smarter), and the Guyvers don't work the same way in the movie. I don't think the high-frequency blades were even vibrating in the movies, and the mega-smasher didn't look like a particle beam cannon. It looked like a bright light coming out of a bulb.

Also, the units' enhancement isn't as consistent as the manga. Because think: Guyver zero was much stronger than the Creators in their bioboosted form because humans were designed to be physically superior (only the mental power of the Creators was superior). So, a zoanoid, designed to be physically superior to a human, should be so much more powerful bioboosted than a bioboosted human, that the bioboosted zoanoid in the movie should have pretty much one-shotted the guy.

And the rapping zoanoid...uh, yeah. Let's not go there.

[odin]

None taken friend , this thread was made to discuss Sean and Sho after all , I love the second movie myself and i admit that the effects were not stellar but at least they were fateful to the comic so to speak ,considering what they had to work with during the time they made the movie , but how is it that the Units Enhancements are not as consistent inthe movie as it was in the Manga ? every ability that Sean did is the same as in the Manga or Anime (without putting the way the effects were made they are basically identical) and saying that bioboosted Zoanoids are stronger than bioboosted humans is just proving what i said that Sean is the Better G1 out of the 2 . since i think this conversation wont last long if we just discuss Sean and Sho ,how about we also discuss how accurate the movies were to the Manga and the Anime ?

And the rapping zoanoid...uh, yeah. Let's not go there.

you have to admit ......it was funny the first time you hear it , but yea ,lets not get to that...

Edited October 7, 2008 by odin

[*Jess♥]

the Guyver units in the films were not the same units as the manga.

for a start they looked a heck of a lot different.

they activated differently. they had different power output.

as far as I can tell, the movie Guyver has some important parts missing. namely the power amps.

if sho punched a normal zoanoid, he kills it.

remember how he took out those ramotith with a simple punch?

the movie Guyver quite obviously doesn't have the momentum enhancers that give sho his powerful punches.

the movie Guyver has increased strength, this is true. he is faster, he is stronger, he has most of teh Guyver normal abilities.

he doesn't seem to have the hang of the gravity controller but that could simply be due to inexperience.

the CM must be inferior, becaue Sho's control medal teaches him how to use some abilities, whereas if sean has a gravity controller, he obviously doesn't know how to use it so his CM must not be capable of teaching him as effectively.

as these units are inferior, then hte difference between normal Guyver and zoanoid Guyver must not have been such a big difference.

besides that, the unit was damaged and so crane lost because of that.

that's my take on it anyway.

in actuality, these characters don't occupy the same universe. it's like the 'sliders' version of guyver.

but it is always fun to imagine the meeting between the two. sean activates his guyver. "hey, look what i can do!"...

sho activates his unit and proceeds to pummel sean into putty.

[RazorLaser]

Can't compare the G1 vs G2 fight with the Sean vs Crane fight because Sho had no experience whatsoever with the Guyver when he fought G2, but on the other hand, Sean had lots of experience with the Guyver before fighting Crane.

Sho owns zoanoids left and right within seconds, Sean takes 5 minutes, and with the help of dynamite, blows up a zoanoids head... Sho blows up zoanoids heads with the head beam itself.

Sean is obviously a better skilled fighter (bridge-swing-kick-awesomeness) and a better graffiti artist lol...

It would be really interesting to see Sean fight G2, both of them are skilled martial Artists and have only used half of the guyvers weapons (megasmasher, head beam, high frequency blades... that I'm aware of, not sure if G2 used more I forgot)...

Sho probably put up as much of a fight with G2 as Sean did with Crane... Sho managed to cut G2's face causing him to say "son-of-a..." (OVA) and Sean did that awesomely cool bridge swing kick and knocked Crane down... I don't remember if Sean did anything else but Crane pretty much won the fight when he stabbed Sean, until the bullet him Crane of course...

Would be an interesting fight nonetheless

[odin]

Im glad people took time to read this and discuss the comparison , but im just a fan of the movies since is the first thing i saw that had to do with the Guyver was the movies , but i still root for sean he in a way has a better personality than Sho.

and a better graffiti artist lol...

indeed .....lol

Edited October 7, 2008 by odin

[durendal]

Wait, are we pitting Movie Guyver versus Manga Guyver, or we are pitting Shou Fukamachi vs Sean Barker. Because if you put aside the difference in g-units, I think that Sean might be able to up one over Shou. That is if they have the same unit. Also, are we talking about pre x-day Shou or post gigantic Shou? The difference in resolve will also impact the results.

[BlackEpyon]

I think the out come of the fight depends on the Bio Booster Unit's Host abilities and combat experience. If Sho fought Sean during the events of the first few episodes of the Guyver Anime (OVA, or series) or the first few chapters of the Manga. Then, yes Sean would be the winner of the fight.

However if Sho and Sean had fought after they have both activated their Units for say a year. Then I would have to say the winner of the fight would have to be Sho. Since Sho knows the true potiential of the Bio Booster Armor, and has experience on how to use it's weapons. Then Sho obiviously has an advantage. However Sean in Guyver - Dark Hero has activated his Unit for a year, and has yet to fiigure out how to full use it's weapons.

Edited October 9, 2008 by IceGuyver

[Larz Zahn]

hey odin, how far up in the Manga have you read? that should help give us some idea of the sho thats in your head, right?

[Hellspawn28]

It hard match to choice from my vote would go to Sho since he put a better fight with Zoanoids then Sean ever did in the first two movies. And Sho fight against stronger foes such as Richard Guyot, who is way stronger then Guyver Zoanoid in Dark Hero.

[Guest maX Volnutt]

In a battle of Sho vs. Sean, I'd have to go with Sho in all forms. While Sean has formal training in martial arts and in the second film, it is implied that he has had some sort of military experience, Sho has him beat in terms of sheer force of will. Take, for instance, his battle with aptom's second form. He managed to stand after being impaled through the gut with Enzyme II's claw. I somehow doubt all of the Juijitsu in the world will help Sean do anything worse to Sho than that. And since then Sho has become MUCH stronger in skill and more importantly, will. He was even able to pull the Gigantic away from Agito. Sean may be able to beat up Sho, but that won't stop Sho from always being ready to get back up.

If we're talking about Guyver I (GI) vs... Guyver... Dark Hero, let's call him (DH), I really think there's no contest. Sho has far superior mastery of the Guyver's capabilities, most importantly gravity control. In the second film DH is seen jumping high and flipping about, showing that Sean has some inkling of the Guyver's gravity defying abilities. GI can fly, quickly, effectively and with finesse. More importantly, he can use the Pressure Cannon (though, if he can do it with one hand, like Agito, I'm not sure). That means that if he really wanted to, GI could just fly up into the air and bombard DH with Pressure Cannons, and DH would be practically helpless. GI's mastery of the Sonic Buster might even make the fight shorter (though, DH seems to have two more Sonic Buster orbs than GI). Also, as others have pointed out, one must take into account the difference in power of the units. GI seems FAR more powerful. Take, for example, their Megasmashers. DH's megasmasher seems to produce a beam only about a meter and a half in diameter and seems to cause no damage to the Relic in the movie. GI's Megasmasher will take out half a building and cuts straight through The Relic when rebounded on the Guyvers by Arkanphel. Throw in the fact that GI can access the seemingly unlimited power of the Gigantic and Gigantic XD and it makes DH look like an insect.

As for the DH beat a Zoalord argument... don't make me laugh. Balkus in the movie was no Zoalord. He was a giant lizard reindeer with a glove for a tongue. He was a lot more like Gyuot than Barcus, so I suppose it would make sense for him to be matched up against Gyuot... who would easily crush Balkus. Gravity Crusher, Gravity Bullet, Pseudo-Black Hole... Balkus wouldn't know what happened. He might even just rip Balkus' head off.

Speaking of one-sided manga vs. movie fights... Murakami vs. Max?

[*Jess♥]

well the thing about a zoalord.. what makes them special is their energy manipulation and the barrier technique.

balkus showed none of this so he wasn't a true zoalord. he had a small level of mind control of course, but it seemed pretty weak in comparison to fully fledged zoalord.

I would say that he was probably a proto-zoalord. and he remained faithful to cronos and gained an executive position and managed to stay alive.

a prototype that was being used to test out strength type abilities.

perhaps a proto type for cablarl.

[Guest maX Volnutt]

It's possible. Or maybe it's just that the movie was a very shallow Grade B version of what the anime and manga are. I mean, taking what I said earlier about Murakami vs. Max. Murakami turned into an immensely powerful and generally very cool Proto-Zoalord. Max turned into... some kind of terrible lobster-cockroach incapable of sustained life. There's simply no comparison.

Zoanoids in the manga are terrifying. Zoanoids in the movie are played by Jimmie "J.J." Walker and rap. Badly. See what I'm getting at here? Dy-no-miiiiiite!

[*Jess♥]

It's possible. Or maybe it's just that the movie was a very shallow Grade B version of what the anime and manga are. I mean, taking what I said earlier about Murakami vs. Max. Murakami turned into an immensely powerful and generally very cool Proto-Zoalord. Max turned into... some kind of terrible lobster-cockroach incapable of sustained life. There's simply no comparison.

Zoanoids in the manga are terrifying. Zoanoids in the movie are played by Jimmie "J.J." Walker and rap. Badly. See what I'm getting at here? Dy-no-miiiiiite!

well this all goes without saying.

I was just entering into the spirit of the discussion so far :wink:

[Purgstall]

Oh please, we all know that the Jimmie Walker zoanoid could take down a Zoalord. He would probably make them laugh themselves to death by his rapping and pure ridiculousness. All hail Stryker!

BOT: Yeah, Guyver I beats the movie Guyver like a redheaded stepchild. He has mastered or at least knows how use his weapons somewhat effectively. Movie Guyver hasn't mastered his weapons and they don't have much strength in them. Sho went up against several zoanoids and a few Zoalords. Movie Guyver on the other hand has a fought a Jimmie Walker Zoanoid, a Guyver-Zoanoid, a dragon-reindeer hybrid, and a few so-called zoanoids. Hell, I think the Aptom-Guyver could even beat the movie Guyver.

[*Jess♥]

I think the problem with sean is a mental thing.

see, the guyver reacts to the hosts psyche, and the power of will.

now, there is a common held belief that human beings only fail to do some things because of their belief in their own reality. if somebody thinks they are not good enough for a job, they will not get it.

well I think that sean barker is pretty grounded in reality. he sees the world around him and thinks what is realistic. the guyver reacts to this and thus reflects the thing that sean will be used to like, say, wrestling, kung fu, etc.

on hte other hand, sho has a fairly open mind, exposed to japanese culture al his life, he has likely been watching shows like ultraman, anime like akira, insanely powerful monsters and so on. sho's imagination is full of insanely awesome stuff, and he is a dreamer.

sean is definately limited mentally.

i realise that this doesn't support the other guyvers in hte manga... so i'll go on to expand what i said and change th focus a little.

not necessarily focuing on their lives and what they have experienced.. sho is in a manga universe. agito and theothers also. their universe is one where amazing things can happen. seans universe is heavily based on reality. that's what limits it. the worlds they live in.

I suppose by this stage, my idea became pretty lame

[*zeo]

well the thing about a zoalord.. what makes them special is their energy manipulation and the barrier technique.

balkus showed none of this so he wasn't a true zoalord. he had a small level of mind control of course, but it seemed pretty weak in comparison to fully fledged zoalord.

I would say that he was probably a proto-zoalord. and he remained faithful to cronos and gained an executive position and managed to stay alive.

a prototype that was being used to test out strength type abilities.

perhaps a proto type for cablarl.

Well I don't believe a direct comparison can be made and still be fair. The movies were clearly different from the anime and most of that can be summed up by budget limits.

That said though, remember Guyot barely survived a single Mega Smash while the Zoalord in the movie was hit with a full double at point blank range. There is also something to say about being able to increase one's mass to such a massive size. Similar to Waferdanos, so on the surface this would still put the movie zoalord into a full zoalord status.

Conversely though the second movie showed the same smashers would not seriously damage the Relic when we know the Manga Relics can be damaged by a single smasher fired miles away even through its shield and seriously damaged without a shield. Though it was a controlled release and may not have been at full power, it still suggests a significant power disparity between the Manga and movie versions. The movie version may not even be able to produce a pressure cannon if this is true, the head beam at least suggests this as well.

So it would seem Sho would have a clear advantage, but then again if we were being fair then a live action Sho would be limited by the same restraints as the live action Sean and vice versa.

[Guest edd2009]

hi guys

i totally agree the movie version id weaker then the anime version

and the guyver live action films were low budget action movies so they really didnt have the money to do all of the guyvers powers

and the guyver dark hero cliff bio-boost shoot was wicked

if you guys whant a new guyver film make a fan flim the graphics are cheap enough to produce and any costumes shouldnt be that hard to make

ive seen a really well made fan film called batman deadend and im telling you its the best one ive ever seen the fx were brilliant and the costume looked like they were studio made

[*Obsidian Ice]

No offense to fans of the movie, but the movies were so god-awful that they shouldn't seriously be considered.

That, and the fact that the zoanoids were sort of watered down to fit American film audiences (which is different from American anime audiences, who are much smarter), and the Guyvers don't work the same way in the movie. I don't think the high-frequency blades were even vibrating in the movies, and the mega-smasher didn't look like a particle beam cannon. It looked like a bright light coming out of a bulb.

Also, the units' enhancement isn't as consistent as the manga. Because think: Guyver zero was much stronger than the Creators in their bioboosted form because humans were designed to be physically superior (only the mental power of the Creators was superior). So, a zoanoid, designed to be physically superior to a human, should be so much more powerful bioboosted than a bioboosted human, that the bioboosted zoanoid in the movie should have pretty much one-shotted the guy.

And the rapping zoanoid...uh, yeah. Let's not go there.

Maglite, sponsors of Guyver, lol

[Astramentous]

Sho Vs Sean - the problem here is, at some point Sho accepted the Guyver as neccesary to keep his friends safe. Sean, on the other hand, keeps thinking about how much he hates being the Guyver. If the guyver reacts to your subconscious, Sean may be weakening it to a ridiculous degree. He may even have power amps, but due to his experience with martial arts and frame of mind, simply be keeping them turned off. The power amps are probably the most essential part of the armor after the control metal and gravity controller - they allow the guyver to keep his footing when firing the mega-masher, punch and grapple with incredible strength, and enhance stability in movement. They probably also contribute to the "excess body heat" the head beam supposedly uses for power. If they're turned off because the user believes they have a certain weight and that won't change or because he hates the armor, the armor has to limit several of the its functions to compensate.

So, that is the reasonable explanation, in-universe, for why Sean's guyver abilities are pathetic. In such a state, Sean would have absolutely no chance of beating Sho. If he got over it, and had a similar frame of mind, then the only difference is in training and build. Sean would likely be at an advantage. He could certainly beat Sho if neither of them transformed.