Bio-Booster Armor Guyver

[Aranor]

The creators were unaware of the mega smashers???

This makes me rethink the origins I used in my fic.......

[Juggernought]

They do have very little bio energy to begin with so the organism probably didn't have enough power to really make the formation of the megasmasher necessary. Plus the creators aren't biologically warlike in nature.

[Aranor]

What I am now curious about is, was the mega smasher a weapon forged by the creators and they were surprised a human had the power to generate one or is the mega smasher a weapons evolved into the organisms natural state and the creators were in awe that bonding with a human allowed it to form? Kinda like deep deep sea creatures being able to generate red or blue light to warn predators and hid in the light of the upper blue waters.

[gelionlegends]

hence the reason why they went and created humans and then the battleforms the zoanoids as they were breed and made for war.

like you said zeo that the guyver differs in formation and so it could possibly use how aggressive a person is to factor in how the unit looks, like sho when first activating the g-unit 1 isn't as frightening as akida (whatever his name is) when he activated g-unit and became guyver 3 as it is more hostile in appearance than sho's. plus it is also defensive as those spikes would keep people from coming close or hugging him?

so those little red orbs could well be hidden like you said beneath the armour on the head as all units have the same equipment just not in the same numbers or places like the vents on g2 or the swords on g3.

so the sensing orbs would be creating 3d images then most like sound will factor into it as bats use sound to see where they are going when flying.

i would think the mega smashers were created be the cm as humans had such large levels of energy than the creators made a weapon to take advantage of this fact, and most like enhance the output for the other weapons.

as the mega smasher releases such a large amount of energy at one time that they can't be used again until the energy used is replaced, sort of make the ms a finisher move when both orbs are used while they can use one and conserve energy for later.

though i did have a weird though about a g-unit having extra mega smashers in the shoulders like vamore and gaster sort of like a back-up if the main got damage though it could be fired at the same time with the main only draining the unit badly maybe turning back to human form as the energy drain is that bad.

that and what would a guyver having gasters missiles be like better for one but how much so and how different in appeance as it would make the unit long range as well besides the mega smashers though more efficent in use than the ms.

so a g-unit takes the human to it full potential so what happens with an extreme martial artists that bond with the unit or a saiyan would the unit take them to their full potential or only so far because it may not be able to or handle the level?

though that would also beg the question if a new weapon would be made to take in the excessive amount of power they have compared to non extreme martial artists and zoanoids?

[Juggernought]

Host of guyver 3 is Agito. And the way i view the whole guyver concept is that the units themselves reflect who the host really is on the inside. Yes they boost the host to the highest potential genetically possible but as was said before, Sho's unit may look plain and ordinary because that's who he really is. He's innocent, and naturally a pacifist. Agito on the other hand is much more aggressive, and has plans for more power and is manipulative. Naturally his unit would take on a more imposing and aggressive appearance.

I also had an idea of how Guyver 0 was regenerated. Zeo let me know what you think about this. A unit normally records its hosts data inside the control medal so that in the event of the body being destroyed it can still be regenerated from the information left there. I think it is the same when a unit remover is used on a guyver. For a period of time the original host data remains stored in the cm until the new host information becomes more dominant the longer they are bonded. The unit remover just forces the organism to revert back to its dormant state. So when the creator that tried to bond with Guyver 0's unit and became the host it could be that something went wrong with the process, a shift in energy or perhaps the unit somehow recognized the reduced power level of its next host and decided to revert back to its original state of owning a human body...this could be due to the experimentation done to it.

We have said before that the units do have some sentience, so maybe its intelligence was increased to the point where it was enough to recognize this?

[*zeo]

No, the Unit Remover erases the CM host data. This is why it returns to its dormant state in the first place.

However, this doesn't mean there isn't a residual trace of that data. Like erasing the data on your hard drive doesn't mean someone can't go in with the proper equipment and still recover that lost data. It just can't be gotten to normally...

So in the WG fan fic we went with that idea and had the Creators try to analyze the lost information but in doing so they accidently partially restored that data into active memory. Though the data was corrupted to the point it mixed the data it got from the Creator host and merged the result.

This means Guyver Zero is not the original but rather a hybrid of Creator and the original host. Who just happened to be human enough to side with humans.

His telepathy being just one sign of this...

The CM does have a form of sentients but it is an artificial sentients, it does what its programed to do, which is why it taps the host brain for more complex reactions. The CM has no real Will of its own, which is why in self defense mode it mainly just reacts to its surroundings.

Even the Creation of the Gigantic was only brought about by the Will of the host and not any imperivative of the CM, aside from the prime directive of preserving the life of the host.

So the most it had been involved in the process was to try to make sense of the conflicting data it had and perform its primary function of preserving the host.

Like the movie the Fly, the CM was confused so it just combined the two.

so a g-unit takes the human to it full potential so what happens with an extreme martial artists that bond with the unit or a saiyan would the unit take them to their full potential or only so far because it may not be able to or handle the level?

It could very well be the Mega Smashers are the Unit's idea of excess energy discharger to bleed off excess energy. It would follow in line with the Head Beam, which the translation states is actually a heat vent for the excess internal body heat of the Guyver, just focusing it into a weaponized intensity beam.

Remember the Guyver is also a living being so the Mega Smashers could just be an adaptation to the excess energy, though probably guided by the living weapon nature of its human host to shape it into a weapon.

As for a Martial Artist, they are already tapping their potential. So no, the result would be the same as each host is brought to their peak.

A Saiyon isn't human though so the Unit reaction would be different. It may even be detrimental to a Saiyan since a Saiyan gets stronger as they fight or get injured and then heal. But the Unit regeneration is based on what the host is at the time of bonding so it may prevent this aspect of a Saiyan and only put them at the peak they were at when they bonded.

Such considerations must be made for any life form you consider bonding a Unit to.

[McAvoy]

The whole Sayian thing though got dropped right after Goku went SSJ. I think after a certain point, Saiyans would be too powerful for the Saiyans to get more powerful from injury like before. The only time we see the Saiyans get stronger was before they got around to Freiza's level. So presumably, being a SSJ Guyver Goku and then get injured would not affect the whole 'power up' thingie. Or... the Guyver unit could maximize the Saiyan's base power to the max.

[*zeo]

Uh, nope they never stopped making Goku stronger. Going all the way up to SSJ level 3 before the original creator left and the company created DB-GT and the semi-official SSJ4.

Basically as long as they keep on fighting they'll keep on getting stronger.

In other words Saiyan's body learn from damage, each time regenerating stronger than before.

It's one of the reasons their kids could become SSJ so easily as they passed on their already enhanced DNA.

Also each SSJ state is geometrically more powerful than the last, so it is understandable if it took longer for them to advance once they went SSJ.

[McAvoy]

Well it was obvious that Goku never stopped getting stronger. Anyone who watches the sahow would know that.

What I meant was the power increase every time he got injured was stopped. I just personally believe it was never proportional to the power level, but merely an addition as it were. 100 points to every time Goku gets hit in the head as opposed to 10% for example.

As far as the kids were concerned, we never really knew why they went SSJ so quickly with the exception of Gohan. Remember if the kids got stronger as the result of the parents getting stronger, then eventually the Saiyan Empire would have toppled Freiza. As it turned out the kids being born with high or low power levels was just a stroke of luck. Goku being 2 and so forth.

The only difference would have been the that the parents at the time were SSJ.

[Juggernought]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it because it is naturally harder for a full blooded saiyan to transform, and the kids...since they were hybrids, could access the ssj form due to the fact that their human blood essentially removed most of those limitations?

[*zeo]

Nope, though it was suggested. The Manga and Anime translations differ quite a bit on such details.

Like the Androids weren't originally called androids, the translators just defaulted to that since the word actually used was too generic and actually meant something closer to artificial person.

Krillian's name was also spelled differently, Kuririn, and was a composite word that meant literally bald monk. Quite a few of the characters names were like that.

Though Goku's name was taken from an ancient legendary hero from China.

But the reasons Saiyans got stronger after recovering from injury was EXACTLY the same reason they got stronger from fighting McAvoy. So no it never stopped, it just stopped being as noticeable. Especially since they stopped getting hurt as often or as badly.

Though they also started to get more mystical about it like Mystic Gohan jumping to around what would normally be SSJ2 without going Super Saiyan at all, during the Buu saga for example.

Also, more emphasis was made on their skills, for which simply healing would not improve as much as fighting would.

The mechanics of it though remained the same, Saiyan cells learn from damage. Regenerating back stronger than before and fighting causes damage just like injury, just usually not as extensive.

Just like our own muscles work, just with no upper limit.

[McAvoy]

The point I am trying to make is that Goku or Vegeta after the Freiza saga there was no more mention of them recovering stronger than before. So either it was relatively small by that point not worth mentioning or they still were getting stronger and made a point of injuring themselves during the training.

But let's remember that between the time that Vegeta landed on Namek and when Freiza killed him he recieved a near 30x or more increase in his power level. That is within a maybe a week. While he probably did not recover from near fatal injuries like before, he would have surely pushed himself during that training periods to give himself a respectiable boost.

The last time they even mentioned the Saiyan near death power level boost is Cell. But since he is naturally a much more powerful being than Saiyans are, it would be understood that he would get much larger power boosts than Saiyans would.

[*zeo]

Vegeta did push himself, in fact by the time he did become SSJ he was stronger than Goku, even though they were both SSJ.

And how much of a power boost cell got is irreverent to the fact he did get a power boost from regenerating because he had the Saiyan ability to get stronger. He also had the absorbed Androids in him magnifying his power, so in a way he was almost like the Guyver. Since the absorbed androids kinda made him like a Organic Cyborg.

Also each SSJ level is massively more powerful than the last level, as well as the fact each level of SSJ is progressively harder to achieve...

So even though they didn't mention it much they were getting progressively more powerful.

The SSJ levels were just used to show they have reached a whole new level and didn't give details on how hard it was to reach those levels. At least not till SSJ3 when they put a time limit on how long that form could be maintained.

[Juggernought]

in fact by the time he did become SSJ he was stronger than Goku

Training in 450G would do that to you....

[McAvoy]

It was never confirmed if Vegeta was ever more powerful than Goku around the time frame of their respective fights with Android 19. Goku was getting weaker from the heart virus and Vegeta was not. So it was never conclusive if he was. Personally I think Vegeta was.

Cell absorbing the two Androids was part of his design. He would have never gotten that powerful that easily without them. However, his Saiyan near death power boost might not have been as large (that also is inconclusive), but the fact remains he did have one. Otherwise, Gohan while hurt and doubtful would have still took out Cell with that one arm.

Also, there was always a time limit on each SSJ form, it was never as pronounced as SSJ3. Remember that it took energy and alot of will to go SSJ which is the main reason why during their training Goku and Gohan trained to remain SSJ under normal circumstances.

Another example is how Gohan turned SSJ for the first time and it was only for a few seconds before he collapsed.

[*zeo]

Also, there was always a time limit on each SSJ form, it was never as pronounced as SSJ3. Remember that it took energy and alot of will to go SSJ which is the main reason why during their training Goku and Gohan trained to remain SSJ under normal circumstances.

Sorry but you're basically missing the significance of the fact that both Gohan and Goku were able to maintain the SSJ form for a long period of time.

So the only time limit of the SSJ form was how long they could will that form on and not relax back into their normal form.

This is separate from how much energy it takes to achieve each SSJ state, as that drains their energy and leaves them less to actually fight with after the transformation. But as they got stronger they could maintain those forms longer.

Gohan is a bad example, short transformation was only because he had barely achieved the power needed to transform and had yet to master the transformation as Gohan always had trouble tapping his hidden potential. This was theme throughout the whole series for him.

Let's not forget that when Goku first transformed he did so twice during the battle with Freeza, and this was all after he had a major battle with Freeza before Kuririn was killed. So he didn't have a time limit, he was going to fight Freeza as long as it took and obviously had enough energy to transform twice.

As for Goku's heart virus, it didn't effect him until he started fighting the Androids. Which was a significant period of time after Piccolo had already commented that Vegeta was now more powerful than Goku.

Remember, only the battles are dragged out. The day to day life is always fast forwarded whenever nothing important is happening.

So if you take into account the fact many DBZ characters can sense power levels that this clearly shows that was the case.

Often times the Ability to sense power levels has proven more accurate than the Power Level Meter, as they could apparently sense potential as well as active power level.

[McAvoy]

Both Goku and Gohan trained to maintain their SSJ forms without reverting to their normal forms. It is has been several years but from what I remember it is because it takes quite alot for a Saiyan to transform into a SSJ initially. By maintaining the SSJ form from the beginning allows them to use that extra energy used in the transformation to fight.

The only time I can really think of where there was a time limit on a certain form as drastic as the SSJ form is the Kaio-Ken. But that's more of temporary bursts of speed and it does damage the body after awhile.

All of the SSJ forms, going from SSJ, semi-USSJ, USSJ, SSJ2 seems to be the most stable. But like I said, manitaining that form take alot for anyone. If it wasn't for that, every Saiyan would manitain their SSJ forms indefinitely.

It stands to reason that the reason why Goku or Gohan or hell even Vegeta would be SSJ as their base forms by the time of the Buu saga, that over time the SSJ either takes a toll on their body, energy limit, or even time limit.

It was theorized that one of the reasons why Goku could never maintain his max. SSJ3 level was that he wasn't fully prepared or he developed it too early. Look at Gotenks his power level never decreased the entire time, just his time limit while fused.

[*zeo]

Yes but Gotenks was a fused being, so had double the energy reserves than normal.

You should look at it like running, someone who can run a marathon can pretty much easily run 1 mile in under 5 minutes.

But someone who can usually only run 5 miles a day will have a tougher time reaching that mile in under 5 minutes, let alone go on to another mile in under the same time.

Same thing with going SSJ, Goku was at a high enough level of development that when he did go SSJ he didn't really have a limit.

Gohan though always had trouble going full out and going SSJ is like tapping your hidden potential. So the first time he did it was of course unstable, which is perfectly in line with his character.

But SSJ3 is top of the spectrum for the standard SSJ forms, so it's practically impossible to maintain long.

[xtro guyver]

Not only did gotenks have greater energy by being a fused being, but his regular ssj was in the same league as gokus ssj3 since goku thought a ssj gotenks would be enough to kill fat buu, Also explains why gotenks easily reached ssj3 since he had already hit lvl of raw power needed to transform into it. Fusins are just that strong, same reason SSj2 Vegito was able to handel Super buu 3, while goku said he stood no chance what so ever against regular super buu

[*zeo]

Actually I believe Goku can just sense a fighters potential maximum power.

Remember, he knew Gohan was not only stronger than him but that he was certain Gohan could beat Cell even when everyone, including Gohan didn't think so.

So simply sensed that Gotenks could achieve a higher power than him, though true Gotenks SSJ1 state was also more powerful than Goku's SSJ1 state and could thus have easily given Goku a way to estimate Gotenk's maximum by how well he was handling the SSJ state.

Anyway, since this topic has completely gone off course

I've started another topic specifically about Guyver called "Guyver Abilities Trivia"

[Aranor]

Here's one for ya Zeo.

I think this has been established but for the CM to regenerat the host essentially from enery alone, it must be able to manifest matter. Whether it be a stem cell programmed to grow into another cell or some sort of creator master cell. So my question to you is how much energy would be needed to materialise such a cell? Multiply that times cells made and rate of regeneration. A good idea of ho much enegy the CM is processing at a given time. (While performing a function)

[*zeo]

The Bio-Boost process indeed not only infuses the host with energy but is responsible for the rapid addition or subtraction of mass.

This is what allowed the Gigantic for example to go Exceed.

As to how much energy, at minimum the formula is well known as E=MC^2, plus whatever is needed to power the CM and to compensate for any energy lost as heat and light.

Einstein used the CGS system of units (centimeters, grams, seconds, dynes, and ergs), but the formula is independent of the system of units. In natural units, the speed of light is defined to equal 1, and the formula expresses an identity: E = m. In the SI system (expressing the ratio E / m in joules per kilogram using the value of c in meters per second):

E / m = c2 = (299,792,458 m/s)2 = 89,875,517,873,681,764 J/kg (≈9.0 × 1016 joules per kilogram)

So one gram of mass — approximately the mass of a U.S. dollar bill — is equivalent to the following amounts of energy:

89.9 terajoules

24.9 million kilowatt-hours (≈25 GW·h)

21.5 billion kilocalories (≈21 Tcal)

21.5 kilotons of TNT-equivalent energy (≈21 kt)

85.2 billion BTUs [2]

So G1's body mass of 575 pounds comes out to 5.6025e+3 megatons of TNT worth of energy, or 2.3441e+19 joules.

Take that energy and just calculate for a few minutes to give you a per second rating as G1 completely regenerated in a matter of minutes from just the CM once the process had started.

So say we assume it too about 5 minutes?

That comes out to just under 2 mega tons of worth of energy per second.

We actually debated this point years ago and realized that the Guyver regeneration used up more energy than even the Mega Smashers output. :

Kinda gives you some idea why the Gigantic is so much more powerful, it's a lot better at drawing power from the boost dimension and using it offensively than the standard unit is.

The thing is that is the Unit's peak while utilizing the Bio-Boost. Normal operational power is far less due to the fact normal power is drawn from the gravity control orb, which siphons energy from the boost dimension but nowhere near the rate of the Bio-Boost.

So consider normal power to be a mere fraction of the Bio-Boost, which is why normal regeneration takes longer and why the smashers take at least several minutes to recharge after use.

The Smashers themselves I have estimated to be equivalent to an atomic blast at around 10 kilotons worth of energy.

[gelionlegends]

so is the 10 kilotons of energy for the mega smasher, is that for both mega smasher cells or just one cell?

the next question i have is how far does it really merge as i was looking at the 2nd chapter were sho calls the unit and it seems to wrap around the body. i can understand it does a lot to the body, but what interested me the most was the outer part like the plating and the tendrils that look like uncovered flesh that i assume acts like the enhanced muscles, how far is the merge with that part.

as i am sure people remember how you have the cover of volume one showing part of sho's face under the armour, but if it does merge to such an extent that pulling off such would take the face off would't it?

though i assume that they are just saying that sho is the one under the armour as those who have the armour don't have the abilities to retract part of the armour like the liquid symbiot in the marvel universe or how the guards in stargate move did with the helmets.

i know this maybe a bit off topic but those weapon energy modules that one of the kavzar has what type of energy can it create like any type or nearly or is it limited as some types are to dangerous or damaging to the module.

an idea i saw in a codex was a weapon called a gauss flayer that basically acted like a teleport devices but striped the target one molecula layer at a time and there was no destination point at all, what sort of power would be need or would what is used to create the energy for the mega smasher be enough to use it like a mega smasher.

it's just an idea on what a guyver that had say one of those either replacing a weapon or a special weapon, though the same tech was also used in the hand combat weapons this in the guyver swords of such would make it able to do more damage in close or long range combat.

it just a thought really on what sort of unit it would be and how it would effect the out come in large battles of against those powerful zoaforms out there.

[gelionlegends]

though nothing to do with the armour itself but how big are the units when they are not active like as the size of a standard "quality street tin", smaller or as large as a dinner plate though i think that depends on where you go as a dinner plate for someone could be a small side plate to another.

then how thick is it or should that be high? then weight an also the control medal what size is that compared to.

though considering how sho was able to pick it up it couldn't be that heavy in either manga and anime, also in the live action guyver movies.

then again this is for the standard units the war and other type units what are made specifically for something are either the same size or maybe larger?

so could someone say how big it is and compared to the special units.

[*zeo]

so is the 10 kilotons of energy for the mega smasher, is that for both mega smasher cells or just one cell?

Each!

the next question i have is how far does it really merge as i was looking at the 2nd chapter were sho calls the unit and it seems to wrap around the body. i can understand it does a lot to the body, but what interested me the most was the outer part like the plating and the tendrils that look like uncovered flesh that i assume acts like the enhanced muscles, how far is the merge with that part.

as i am sure people remember how you have the cover of volume one showing part of sho's face under the armour, but if it does merge to such an extent that pulling off such would take the face off would't it?

Extensively, the moment you see the unit cover the host the transformation is instantaneous, the cover was just artistic to show a representation of the host within. For example the unit removes the vocal cords so the host speaks through the sonic emiters like a speaker system but the host never notices aside from the funny sounding voice.

The Guyver eyes also merge with the host eyes and feed visual information directly to the brain through the same optic nerve pathways the normal eyes use.

i know this maybe a bit off topic but those weapon energy modules that one of the kavzar has what type of energy can it create like any type or nearly or is it limited as some types are to dangerous or damaging to the module.

That's the Enforcer Kavzar, they have what is basically a matter/energy matrix manipulation capability so it's any type of energy. Limited only to the area effected by the energy manipulation field and by how much energy the Enforcer Kavzar can channel through it.

an idea i saw in a codex was a weapon called a gauss flayer that basically acted like a teleport devices but striped the target one molecula layer at a time and there was no destination point at all, what sort of power would be need or would what is used to create the energy for the mega smasher be enough to use it like a mega smasher.

That's a Warhammer 40,000 weapon, basically it fires an Electromagnetic blast that disrupts the molecular bonds of the matter it hits. Kinda like a Maser but more efficient.

Unlike the Mega Smashers, which are a particle beam weapon and thus delivers both ionic and kinetic energy.

Energy wise the Smashers are more far powerful than a Flayer, like comparing a grenade to a nuke. But the Flayer is more energy efficient.

If the Guyver Smashers were replaced with the Flayer type, it'll probably be more effective.

Like a Phaser is more effective than a laser even at the same power level, they'll just lack kinetic energy so the target would just disintegrate but won't get knocked back.

though nothing to do with the armour itself but how big are the units when they are not active

Essentually the armor reduces itself to a skin like layer of armor, basically everything deflates, and the CM.

When the unit first bonds to a host it sheds the containment shell, which is what you see when the unit is dormant, which disintegrates as the organism, CM, and gravity control orb lauch out and lands on the host. The organism then bonds to the host, controlled by the CM so the organism doesn't completely absorb the host and instead creates the hybrid form of the Guyver.

All of which takes little over a minute to complete and then the process is complete. The Bio-Boosted host and unit now are very dense, G1 for example weighs 575 pounds. The unit can then de-activate, separating itself from the host and reducing itself to a shell that contains all the parts of the Guyver that go into the host, such as the Smasher Cells, heart (though it's debated whether the host heart is replaced or altered), hyper sensors, gravity control orb, CM, eyes, organism, etc.

We don't know how much this shell weighs but it should be more than the dormant unit but less than the Guyver. Basically much of the mass is returned to hyper space as energy during deactivation and is returned to the Guyver as the Bio-Boost process infuses energy from hyper space during activation.

You can kinda say the Boost Dimension is the life blood of the Guyver and the deactivated unit is like a blood drained husk with the skeleton (host removed).

If that helps you visualize it?