Barack Hussein Obama

[TheGuyversWill]

I don't think she's pleasing enough to the eye to win it.

Plus she's a Bush lackey.

That's two things she has against her. Probably a lot more.

[Juggernought]

she already holds the title of most powerful black woman in america...but presidency is well out of her reach.

[Weltall2]

Will I don't think it is tastful or nice to call someone a lackey. Ms.Rice has been given a crappy deal all around. Her reputation and dignity have been besmirched many times, simply becase she goes against the steryotype that democrats are the only ones that care or have concern for African Americans and other minorities. Remember the big Gonzales Supreme court debacle.

And before we get too far, I want to say I am digusted with both parties.

The democrats because they complain without offering any useful alternatives, and the Republicans because they have tossed out the principles that Newt Gingrich believed in. I can blame a lot of this on the media's loss of jounalistice ethics over the last 10 years which has me think they are for the most part full of crap.

Also I get sick and tired of people making excuses for muslims while beating the crap out of christians that my friends is hypocricy. And before anyone brands me with the religous seal, I want it known I am an atheist.

Though I don't know why this should matter.

Oh and if muslims are so against the methods used by Al-Qeuda and other (Terrorist groups.) Then the so called moderate Muslims need to prove to me that they exist and come out from under they're desks.

I would like to say I am sorry I had to come off this harsh, but I am a fair play kinda guy, and when I see people beating up on another group to make it easier for others who are responsible for they're own misfortune, I can not just shrug that off. I remeber what bullies are and what they do and I gotta say half the posts in this thread are about beating up Christains. Whether those statements are true or not isn't the point. No one throughout history has a clean slate.

I hope I stayed within the guidlines of the rules, but even if I didn't I am proud of the stand I have taken here. I am sure I am going to get hammered by some people here and I will answer all questions as soon as I can.

[TheGuyversWill]

You're well within the rules... Guidelines.

I'm glad you're expressing your opinion.

I hope I wasn't one of those people that came off as though I was hating on Christians. I don't believe I was doing that, but I might have based on the fact that I have a strong hate out for them.

And me personally, I'm agnostic. I used to call myself atheist, but I figured if you don't question the universe you get a little stale in the brain.

I'm still searching.

Oh yeah, and she's under Bush...

Lackey

1. a servile follower; toady.

2. a footman or liveried manservant.

What would you call her? I mean that is what she has going against her. I know a lot of woman in the world respect her and admire her for having such a lofty position. When it comes down to it, was she really the best person for the job, or just the best black woman for the job?

Bush picked a lot of his key faces not because they were the best at what they did, but because they earned him brownie points for being minorities. It's sickening.

[Rivyn]

"Bad Stuff" Have been prevalent in this world since the dawn of man kind

I said an increase in "bad stuff"

I never said it never existed, I said its increased since 2000 and there's no denying it.

[TheGuyversWill]

I reiterate my point about the fact that there hasn’t been an increase in "bad stuff" just that we've become more aware of it. The news actually shows us what’s going on in the world rather than puppies playing with kittens.

Though they still dumb it down, and only show us the parts that don't reflect badly on our nation (whichever that nation may be! I heard Australia has a really open press that doesn't hold back any punches! more power to them!).

Natural events related to "bad stuff" can be contributed to global warming. Whether or not this is a human caused condition is still up for debate. I say it's human caused, but a lot of people disagree... Mainly those who have something to lose if it is human caused.

But still... The question remains.... Do you pick the Black Man, or the Woman?

Either is a first, and it seems that this is all the coming election is going to be about, dirty politics aside.

[Kaiser Dragoon]

Man this country is seriously messed up, but then again I live here so I guess all I can do is wait to get that job offer with viz media that I've always dreamed of so I can move to Canada. Now there's a country.

Aye that it is, I was born here and I'll die here being quite proud of it.

[Thunder Demon1472669266]

But, see the thing about his religion is that they both are quite violent (historically or otherwise), and are not exactly opposites, but still.

Anyway, it is important to remember seperation of Church and State, but, sometimes the issue does come up in politics. Like JFK. They were worried about him because he was Catholic, and they are supposed to follow the Pope.

But if he does run, people aren't going to look at just his religion. It'll be about race, ethnics, and anything else to compare him against his opponents. It's like a group of adults playing in a big mudpile, flinging dirt everywhere. Sad really.

But, really, if it comes down to say a white women, and a black man, who do you pick? And your choice, is it based on the background and looks, or is it based on the platform? If it is based on looks (gender, race, color, etc), which of the minority groups do you pick? Historically, presidents have been rich, white men. Again, it begs the question of what you base your decision on.

And I agree, both parties are an annoyance more than anything. In Congress, I hardly think they get much done. There's the saying I've heard a few times that comes into play "If progress is the forward movement of things, does that make Congress it's opposite?"

Personally, politics really needs to be based off of not the parties, but off the idea of your own ideals. Like me, if you were to categorize me as either Right or Left, I don't fit into either category perfectly. No one does. It's not a very good way of doing it. For me, all politics results in is a really big migraine that medicine doesn't really help solve.

But, back to Obama. It really is interesting. Election 2008 for America will certainly be an interesting one, expecially as we begin to see the gearing up towards the end of this year.

[Juggernought]

Doesn't matter what race the candidate is as long as he/she upholds many of the values that the american people hold sacred as well as on everyone's individual ethics. As far as black and white goes, there has never been in america's history an african american holdin so much power and ever since slavery era some white americans hold prejudice against them. Many would prefer a white simpleton in the white house than a man or woman of color. One of the main issues is always about race.

As far as being catholic and following the pope, first and foremost he is american is he not? so his first loyalty would be to his country. you won't see catholic soldiers putting down their arms just becuz the pope said so.

[TheGuyversWill]

You're not calling Hillary Clinton a "white simpleton" are you?

The woman graduated from Yale with a Juris Doctor.

[Juggernought]

No, i was making a comparison between the fact that some white americans would prefer a "white simpleton" than having a person of color lead the nation or of any other ethnic background.

[largo]

Alright everyone lets just face the music America is going to hell in a hand bag and will most likely take everyone else with them. As for my dream to be a Candian it stims from the fact that I lived for quite a while in Michigan and I personally spent a lot of time traviling over the big bridge to go in to Canada and lets face it when you can get pizza and a dubble cheese burger at the same time from the same place you have truely reached the promise land.

[*zeo]

largo, people have been saying America is going to hell in a handbag since the country was founded.

And Zeptha, like Will said the world isn't getting worse. We're just more aware of the problems.

Like in Vietnam Americans lost more lives in a week than we had in a whole year in Iraq.

Or little facts like over 1000 Americans died overseas during the 90's to terrorists but it took 9/11 before we actually took notice.

These are all old problems, we're just waking up and realizing they are problems.

But we're still here and we're not going anywhere anytime soon.

Sure the US has problems but so does every country. There is no perfect society because we're all human and humans aren't perfect.

Even Canada has it's problems, which I could make a fairly long list of.

And Largo, you can get pizza and burger in the same place in the US too. In fact the Burgers are probably safer since Canada has had more problems with mad cow than the US has.

But really, name any country and I'll give you a list of problems for it. Many that even rival the US problems.

Like in Australia, did you know they got concentration camps for Iraqi refugees? Regular civilians starving to death in horrible conditions in the middle of nowhere because the Australian government doesn't want to deal with them.

But of course the news centers on the hand full of terrorists the US has in its prisons, none of who are starving to death or who are treated as badly as many other countries treat their prisoners.

Hell, in France it's against the law for even muslim women to wear the head covering in public. And they're one of the most liberal countries you could name.

Now not all American presidents have been rich, some grew up poor Like Lincoln. It's just the one's since the 20th century have been all rich since you needed money to get your message to the people to get yourself elected.

Unfortunately that's the way the system works, people don't pay enough attention to politics to even know who these people are before they start running. So they need money to get their message out and get recognized.

The biggest flaw in the US is that the people have short memories, they forget the mistakes of the past and think what happens in the world has no bearing on them so they ignore what happens in other countries.

But when the attention of the American people is called upon we can be the most generous of people.

For the UN for example the US supports over a third of their budget and we make up the majority of the military forces the UN sends out over the world for peacekeeping.

Whenever there is a natural disaster you can find the US sending in food and economic relief to all parts of the world.

Yet we are demonized.

We may act as the police for the world but that is only because the world refuses to police itself.

Really, how many times does a genocide have to take place and no one does anything before the US steps in?

Yet if we do nothing then we are also demonized for doing nothing even if the problem had nothing to do with us.

Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

As for who will I vote for President, it'll be whoever I think can do the job.

I don't care what race or gender they are.

Which I think is how the majority of America will vote.

It's just unfortunate that neither party is going to be giving us any prime examples this time around.

Both parties need to get their heads examined.

For example John Kerry would have won the last election if he had just took a stand on the issues and told the people what he really thought. But instead he flip flopped himself right out of the race. No one knew what he stood for so he lost.

That's what you get when you try to appease everyone at the same time.

It also doesn't help if everyone knows you're dishonest.

And unfortunately Hillary is dishonest so I don't think she'll win.

Not to mention Travel Gate, the Foster mystery death, White Water, etc were all really scandals that were caused by her. So her opponents can really tear her up in the debates.

Not to mention the scandal of her buying her senate seat with a last minute deal with the Jewish Community.

The fact she didn't partake in most of the funerals of 9/11.

She has a lot going against her, not to mention the fact she really hasn't done anything in the senate to distinguish her as a leader of any sort.

Condalica Rice has a lot more going for her, unlike Hillary we know she's smart as a whip, actually earned her position if you ever read up on her career, and can deal with the pressure of dishing it out with the big boys since she already handles hard politics and dealings with other countries.

Though like Al Gore being the President's lackey as it were may hold her back but that depends on whether she can express her own views and show she is her own person.

Powell didn't agree with the president for example but still went the party line because that was his job and now she has the same job and has to do the same thing.

Cause really we don't know her viewpoints, her position doesn't allow her to voice her own opinions. Only if she runs will we learn what she really believes and whether she agrees with Bush or not.

So don't let your hate for Bush cloud your view of her since frankly you haven't a clue what she's really about. Other than the fact she has proven she's one smart and tough woman.

But of the bunch she's the one presently with the most integrity, since it has held up under a lot of mud slinging. And the President doesn't have to look good to win

So I wouldn't underestimate her, she could win if she ran and succeeded in making her personality felt. And unlike the others she already has years of practice defending her position.

Obama I've yet to have an opinion on since he is still pretty much an unknown. Like his true religion there is much that he has not revealed about himself and if he insists on creating a public persona that is not the real him then he will probably lose before he really starts.

Guiliani is probably going to run and probably going to win the way the political winds are moving now. Since people know he can get the job done even if not everyone agrees with his politics and he is more of a moderate than a conservative so should appeal to a greater percentage of the population.

He used to be a democrate after all so knows how to appeal to both parties.

But whoever wins, at least the government will finally put some real effort into alternative energy sources and solving some of the worlds real problems.

[largo]

Finally finished wow Zeo slow down it's hard to keep up, but you're right in that the gov. will try harder to find clean renable(sp?) energy sources because I can bet my life a republican will not be elected that is for sure.

[Thunder Demon1472669266]

Sure the US has problems but so does every country. There is no perfect society because we're all human and humans aren't perfect.

Even Canada has it's problems, which I could make a fairly long list of.

Yeah, Every country does have its problems true, but the US's list seems to be growing, and nothing is getting done about problem number 1 first. I mean, there are like several hundred steps getting each solved, minor or major. You've got to start at step one, not step 589.

The biggest flaw in the US is that the people have short memories, they forget the mistakes of the past and think what happens in the world has no bearing on them so they ignore what happens in other countries.

Hear hear! People tend to ignore what they don't like though. Everywhere that's a problem. The more freer a society, the more problematic that is. In a Utopian state, a greedy kid could end up taking over, hardly anyone would do something about it.

As for who will I vote for President, it'll be whoever I think can do the job.

I don't care what race or gender they are.

Which I think is how the majority of America will vote.

It's just unfortunate that neither party is going to be giving us any prime examples this time around.

Both parties need to get their heads examined.

For example John Kerry would have won the last election if he had just took a stand on the issues and told the people what he really thought. But instead he flip flopped himself right out of the race. No one knew what he stood for so he lost.

That's what you get when you try to appease everyone at the same time.

Heh, well, I was told that you should do what you think needs to be done, 'cause regardless, one third will love you to death, a third will riot against you, and a third will stick their heads in the sand. And, Zeo, there haven't been any great examples since before the Cold War really took off!

Obama I've yet to have an opinion on since he is still pretty much an unknown. Like his true religion there is much that he has not revealed about himself and if he insists on creating a public persona that is not the real him then he will probably lose before he really starts.

Probably. He might not make it passed Super Tuesday if he can't get in gear in time. The problem to me is that it's party politics combined with national politics. You can't really run on your beliefs if say, your borderline Dem/Rep. And I mean right in the middle on some issues. Key issues, ie abortion, the war in Iraq, and a whole bunch of other stuff. I mean, really, if you are Republican based on say monetary issues, but Democratic on Social issues, where the hell do you go? My one main irk is that. I have a hard time deciding at times, but that's only because I need to know more than what I'm usually given.

And as an unknown, you're throwing yourselves to the dogs if you can't litterally shove your message out there. Personally, I agree, it's hard to make a decision on Obama without more. I'm one of those that hates making decisions halfway ****ed and ready to go, or on the fly. It's a bad way to go.

But whoever wins, at least the government will finally put some real effort into alternative energy sources and solving some of the worlds real problems.

Not if the oil industry has anything to say about it, they won't. I partially blame the oil nations on the fact that reewable energy sources caren't available yet. I also blame the politicians who take kick backs to make it happen. With the amount spent in lobbying for oil, we could've had two or three viable renewable fuel sources. And I'm not talking just solar, or feul cells. Or even ethanol for that matter (just think, to fill your tank all you have to do is go to the store and buy a 12 pack of beer). Yeah right. I mean there are other sources, but we really haven't spent the time on them. Not like what with weapons or the space program in the 1960's.

You realize that at the pace NASA was working during the Mercury-Gemini-Apollo days that they were literally making giant leaps in technology? At the pace we were going then, we probably would have been all ready on the way to Mars, and not just waiting. After Apollo-Soyuz event, it really slowed to a bleeding crawl. The rate of advancement during Apollo was like four time what it is now. Thirty plus years and we still haven't done a dang thing with renewable resources, because we've been worried about COMMUNISM for crying out loud! Our leaders then were still working under the ways of World War II!

And Zeo, it's always been "damned if you do, damned if you don't" with the US. Granted, sometimes we did do an idiotic thing that we did earn the scorn for, but, it's always been that way, and it always will.

You can't really apply the label you would on a radical Muslim to everyone. It's not how it works. Every party, every nation, every rgoup, every rule will have exceptions, oddballs, radicals, and the like. You apply a label across the board so to speak, you're setting yuorself up for a really big heartbreak.

And really, it's not so much that we're riding a handbasket to hell, it's that the handle's been broken, and we're freefalling our way down. It's not the fall that'll kill us, it'll be the sudden stop at the bottom. And it's a LOOONNNNGGGG way down.

[BloodStorm]

Personally, I'll be voting for hillary.. which brings it's own share of problems.

Do we REALLY want to set precidence for dynasty style leadership for America?

Bush, Clinton, Bush again.. and if Hillary wins, clinton again. Having the same families handing the country back and forth like that would leave a bad taste in alot of people's mouths.

Worse yet, it'ld be further encouragement for Jeb bush to run for office when he gets the chance. I personally beleave Dubya is a grade-a idiot.. and I've heard Jeb is even dumber..

Edit: Ack. Necro posted.. Sorry. Forgot to check the dates involved on the last few posts.

[W'Kar]

Personally, I'll be voting for hillary.. which brings it's own share of problems.

Do we REALLY want to set precidence for dynasty style leadership for America?

Bush, Clinton, Bush again.. and if Hillary wins, clinton again. Having the same families handing the country back and forth like that would leave a bad taste in alot of people's mouths.

Worse yet, it'ld be further encouragement for Jeb bush to run for office when he gets the chance. I personally beleave Dubya is a grade-a idiot.. and I've heard Jeb is even dumber..

Edit: Ack. Necro posted.. Sorry. Forgot to check the dates involved on the last few posts.

Yeah, you all have it so freaking rough being an american! Try being a floridian, I have two of those bush-grade idiots running me. Like getting tagged on both sides at a swingers party.

Honestly, American generosity has it's ups and downs. Sure we are the people who give ALOT to help other people and countries, but we sure give alot to help destroy themselves as well. Follow these links for examples:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=54597

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/09.30A.byrd.wmd.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0901-08.htm

And that just touches the tippy top of the iceburg.

Am I saying America is evil, oh no. But I'm certainly not saying it's a freaking place full of goodly people either.