Zeus

[McAvoy]

Just a question. How come Zeus appears to be so weak? He has a 20% to 60% difference between all the characters with 10x level but he possesses basically the same power level of powers as they do.

Since he's a Gigantic type, wouldn't he just through superior powers have a slightly higher shield power than what he has now? Meaning he should have just through the use of Gigantic type shields withstand 6 to 8 kilotons. Then if he uses a zoalord gravity shield and reinforcing them with his CPMs should bring it to a max of around 10 kilotons.

But according to the datafiles, the use of the Gigantic and Zoalord shields is only twice as powerful as the standard Gigantics and he's using a combination as well. Then he reinforces them with his CPMs in single direction, he can withstand three times as much as his base unit can.

To me it just doesn't add up.

Example:

Zeus (1,200 to 1,600): Using both Zaolord and Gigantic shields: 2 kilotons

Standard Gigantic: (200): Using Gigantic shields: 1 kiloton

Zeus (1,200 to 1,600): Using all (3) shields, in a boosted state: 6 kilotons

Warrior Guyver 3: (400 to 800,: Using all (2) shields in a boosted state: 2 kilotons

None of the above seems to take into account that he has a far higher power level. Granted suing CPMs only equals to a warrior Guyver (or 1 kiloton), but you are putting all shield energy (total of 4, Gigantic, Zoalord, CPM and body shield) into a single direction where as at least two of them is omni-diirectional, which should at least double their base levels.

[*zeo]

Zeus is Technically a 8x character. 12x is achieved by the Gigantic Unit's CPM, which is designed to boost HSL system. Remaining power boost comes from his base Unit's CPM's but can only provide short bursts of 16x, otherwise it can only be applied to one ability at a time over longer periods of time.

That aside, you must realize the Type 2 Warrior Unit is primarily an offensive type. Aside from CPM and body shield it has no shielding system. So Zeus's omni-directional shields are only produced by the Gigantic unit. His offensive capabilities on the other hand are on a parr with his power level.

[Vengeance]

Yeah but he still doesnt seem to match up with other powerful guys near his level, i mean Guardian seems to be way stronger and for the most part she's weaker then him except in her highest form

[*zeo]

You think Guardian seems way stronger than Zeus

Let's see her durability, firepower, and reflex speed all weaker. Firepower and Reflex are still weaker even with the Bio-Doubler boosted max.

Comparison is not even valid, she's a Mark II enhanced Warrior Guyver. Zeus is a Gigantic enhanced type 2 Warrior Guyver.

You're all missing the point, this isn't DBZ where everything is judged by power level alone. We go by fighting ability, unit technology, and host characteristics. Zeus is a powerful being but he is based off a WG2 Unit, which is speciallized for FIREPOWER, not defense.

Besides any Guyver that can go one on one with Kron can hardly be called weak. His abilities are completely consistant with the technology of his Unit.

Other 10x beings, lets see Prometheus can only withstand 2-3 kilotons, Ultimas can withstand 6 kilotons but only with his Meteor blast field and full shields, Guardian only beats Zeus durability when boosted to 20x, and the only 10x character besides MWG to have durability higher than Zeus is Black Nova (Pre-Dark Nova) and that's because her shield system is similar to WG's Gravity Shield weapon.

[Vengeance]

Yeah but therer is a difference in how they've been shown so far in the fic. You tell us that Zeus goes and fights one on one with Kron but we only really saw it once during All Things Change when they control the weather against one another. Other then that we only get minor mentions of Zeus during fights wil Guardian had a part in Seven Days of Hell just for her when shes fighitng the Zoanoids and other 10x people like Greg and Max have a different stroy line so they had the fight with the Hunter. I think we just dont see enough of Zeus to truly grasp how strong he is

[Zeus Thunderbolt]

Agito is the sneeky boss of zeus thunderbolt, and if you where the man at the top, would you like to be the one doing all the monkey work like battling zoalords everyyime they decide they want to play?. i think no becasue agito knows the limitations of his unit compared to the zoalords and dreadnought, it would be best if he let the ACTF powerhouses weaken the zoalords and end up dieing in the battle, hen zeus can just wipe the floor wit hthe weakened chronos forces and take over the world

[McAvoy]

Granted the WG2 is a offensive Warrior unit. However I feel that if a Warrior based Gigantic unit like Zeus, his Gigantic type shields should at least be double of what it is right now, just through his enhanced power level.

Keep in mind there are indications in other data files do show that even possessing same exact abilites as a satndard Guyver, their higher power level makes him at least slightly stronger. Example: Guyver Zoanoid, and Guyver Zoalord to the extreme.

Guyver isn't DBZ. We haven't seen characters (not even Anubis) as powerful as Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Buu, Vegetto, Gotenks, or anyone. They all can especially in the end of the series can destroy planets with little effort. I don't expect that not even for Anubis.

There have been also times when power does not relate to their speed, skill, stamina, or anything else.

[xtro guyver]

Well looking at from soloums view wg2 was what he wanted it has plenty of fire power due to the cpm and i guess he thought that there was no need to focus on stronger sheilds due to the hyper space back up system, and that it was intended to be an army of them

[McAvoy]

I'm actually curious on how you would actually think the WG2 has weak shielding systems. Just because it does not possess a gravity shield does not make it weak. There are other weapons Guyvers possess that's not gravity based. Mega smashers come to mind. I don't think you'll find any Guyvers beyond the power level of perhaps Zeus with gravity powers that not even a WG2 cannot sheild conventionally.

So what if his shields are only directional. I say that's more economical that having a shield system that is omni-directional like a Gigantic or Warrior Guyver's. he still can withstand twice as much as both of them. Besides the WG2 is a Pure Warrior unit meant for battle.

Warrior Guyver's unit is made to exploit a weakness.

[*zeo]

I'm curious why you think his shields should be more powerful?

His shields are over twice the strength of say Prometheus shields and close to six times the power of his base WG2 unit. Considering Zeus armor only increases his power by three times that that is quite an improvement.

Point of fact, aside from CPM's and basic body shield, a WG2 unit has NO shields.

[Vengeance]

If the WG2 is considered a mainly offensive then which one would be considered the defensive unit and which the more balanced?

[W'Kar]

You have to remember the universe the WG2 unit came from. There, the creators had no real threat in their universe. They had 10X Warrior Kavzar, so never even needed anything stronger. Commander in W'Kar fic was a prototype and first of it's kind cause Krullnar was paranoid.

Now in a universe where they had little fear, the units designed would be for offensive purposes. Hell i mean the Warrior guyvers are nearly impossible to completely kill anyway, and in a universe that they have no real threats why work on protecting something more than is needed? They just designed the WG2 units and Warrior Kavzar with big guns and said have at it boys!

[*zeo]

Yes, the WG2 units where designed for offensive warfare where many would fight together. So defenses where not a high priority of the design and WG's are hard to kill anyway so ideal for quickly overwhelming enemy forces.

In terms of raw power, Gravity Shield aside, both the Prototype WG unit and WG2 unit are basically equal. Only the design difference makes one appear superior to other. BTW, the use of CPM's for power boosting is a feature unique to human hosted units because of the Guyver factor, Creators and Warrior Kavzars can't use CPM's that way. Both unit types are designed for fighting.

The main difference is WG2 unit channels most of its power into firepower. Ex: CPM's are derived from same mechanism that grants WG units the ability to use the Blast Field as a shield. This leaves WG2 Units without the ability to call on Blast Field as a shield but more than compesates in focusing that power for firepower. The CPM devices can also shape shift and usually take the form of forearm laser orbs, primary reason WG2 units have 5 when WG units only have 1, but can also form into an extra pair of swords if needed.

Generally though only extemely advance beings, like W'Kar and Dreadnought, or beings capable of generating immense power, like Dark Nova, have well balanced power levels. All others needs some form of speciallization to extend their power beyond the norm for their level of technology and power.

For Zeus, I really don't know where some of you are getting the impression he is under powered. I've already stated his superior specs to other characters near his power. For examples in fic, he fought and won against a team of Jy-taki and Warrior Kavzars in Meetings fic and has given as well as he gotten in his battles, there's been more than 1 btw, with Kron. The only thing Prometheus has gone up against with that level of power was Hunter and he needed Ultimus help to even do that. Guardian has only been shown fighting in 7 Days of Hell fic so far and has yet to do anything on the scale of power that Zeus has shown.

Final note on shields, you're not taking into account energy density and efficiency. Same reason WG unit Mega Smashers are only 2x when total unit power is 4x. Power alone does not mean something has to be as powerful as you think it should be. You're also forgetting a lot of Zeus's power goes to giving him a wider range of powers than his base unit has, like weather control, etc. Not to mention I already said he is really a 8x character. 12x comes from boost from CPM built into Zeus armor to boost HSL system. Remaining boost comes from host unit's CPM, who's limitations have already been discussed. The armor itself is an artificially created Gigantic prototype left over from original Warrior Project. It's just like trying to balance a budget, not everything can get full funding. Agito wants to destroy his enemies so he gave himself the proverbial big stick. Until he either upgrades his armor with more advance tech, remember he still has that lab, or changes his priorities, his unit will stay the way it is.

[Guest]

is zeus ever geting another upgrade, i know he quite stronge now but is he going to have upgrade to make him be in league with dreadnought, alk, kavaz enforcer, etc.

[xtro guyver]

The main difference is WG2 unit channels most of its power into firepower. Ex: CPM's are derived from same mechanism that grants WG units the ability to use the Blast Field as a shield. This leaves WG2 Units without the ability to call on Blast Field as a shield but more than compesates in focusing that power for firepower. The CPM devices can also shape shift and usually take the form of forearm laser orbs, primary reason WG2 units have 5 when WG units only have 1, but can also form into an extra pair of swords if needed.

So then thats why WGC can channel cmp through his blast field, I take it with WGC the matrix decided to experiment with the cpm system into genrating a more powerful shield instead of being used as a weapon, While we are on WGC how come his unit mega smashers work like a gigantics instead of how the other warrior units work.

[*zeo]

is zeus ever geting another upgrade, i know he quite stronge now but is he going to have upgrade to make him be in league with dreadnought, alk, kavaz enforcer, etc.

Ooh, I would really like to answer that but unfortunately that question falls under the "No Comment" rule, sorry.

So then thats why WGC can channel cmp through his blast field, I take it with WGC the matrix decided to experiment with the cpm system into genrating a more powerful shield instead of being used as a weapon, While we are on WGC how come his unit mega smashers work like a gigantics instead of how the other warrior units work.

Remember he was upgraded from a standard unit. So much of the standard unit tech was reworked to give him his enhanced powers. So additional gravity orbs were put into his chest plates, just like design of a Gigantic, to boost both his gravity powers and the power of his smashers. This is also part of reason he is still green instead of standard WG Blue. His unit was upgraded, not replaced. Though I would argue that his meteor blast field is as much a weapon as it is a shield, but yes it is another example of CPM technology.

[xtro guyver]

is zeus ever geting another upgrade, i know he quite stronge now but is he going to have upgrade to make him be in league with dreadnought, alk, kavaz enforcer, etc.

Ooh, I would really like to answer that but unfortunately that question falls under the "No Comment" rule, sorry.

So then thats why WGC can channel cmp through his blast field, I take it with WGC the matrix decided to experiment with the cpm system into genrating a more powerful shield instead of being used as a weapon, While we are on WGC how come his unit mega smashers work like a gigantics instead of how the other warrior units work.

Remember he was upgraded from a standard unit. So much of the standard unit tech was reworked to give him his enhanced powers. So additional gravity orbs were put into his chest plates, just like design of a Gigantic, to boost both his gravity powers and the power of his smashers. This is also part of reason he is still green instead of standard WG Blue. His unit was upgraded, not replaced. Though I would argue that his meteor blast field is as much a weapon as it is a shield, but yes it is another example of CPM technology.

cheers for the info james, okay so if all wg are normaly blue then how come WG3 and WG5 aren't blue then

When I said the cpms were more denfensive in WGC its because although it can be used as a weapon he has to ram into his target instead of firing a blat like is normaly done with the cpms

[Matt Bellamy]

is zeus ever geting another upgrade, i know he quite stronge now but is he going to have upgrade to make him be in league with dreadnought, alk, kavaz enforcer, etc.

Ooh, I would really like to answer that but unfortunately that question falls under the "No Comment" rule, sorry.

So then thats why WGC can channel cmp through his blast field, I take it with WGC the matrix decided to experiment with the cpm system into genrating a more powerful shield instead of being used as a weapon, While we are on WGC how come his unit mega smashers work like a gigantics instead of how the other warrior units work.

Remember he was upgraded from a standard unit. So much of the standard unit tech was reworked to give him his enhanced powers. So additional gravity orbs were put into his chest plates, just like design of a Gigantic, to boost both his gravity powers and the power of his smashers. This is also part of reason he is still green instead of standard WG Blue. His unit was upgraded, not replaced. Though I would argue that his meteor blast field is as much a weapon as it is a shield, but yes it is another example of CPM technology.

cheers for the info james, okay so if all wg are normaly blue then how come WG3 and WG5 aren't blue then

When I said the cpms were more denfensive in WGC its because although it can be used as a weapon he has to ram into his target instead of firing a blat like is normaly done with the cpms

WG3 is... uh super evil. And... evil corrupts... yeah... that's it...

As for WG5, well, evil too, but it was only a clone of the WG unit... ( still I think the yellow is kinda ugly IMO)

[McAvoy]

I guess so. I actually like the WG2 units for some reason. I was also a close reasdr when Zeus came out back in I think it was 2000. He seemed to be the most powerful being ever. Then came Dreadnought and Alkanphel's data files. I don't know, geenrally I like well balanced units.

[guyverfanatic]

Remember he was upgraded from a standard unit. So much of the standard unit tech was reworked to give him his enhanced powers. So additional gravity orbs were put into his chest plates, just like design of a Gigantic, to boost both his gravity powers and the power of his smashers. This is also part of reason he is still green instead of standard WG Blue. His unit was upgraded, not replaced. Though I would argue that his meteor blast field is as much a weapon as it is a shield, but yes it is another example of CPM technology.

Thanks for the info.

I always wondered why WGC could shoot gravity bullets, but now I know why. and I think his meteor attack rules!

[*zeo]

okay so if all wg are normaly blue then how come WG3 and WG5 aren't blue then

I did say it was "part" of reason. Agito's previous unit is part of reason for him, as well as part mental since WG unit's can change color if the host really wants it to. Also purple is just blue and red (Matt may be right bout the evil bit ) mixed together anyway. Green on other hand is a different part of spectrum all together. For WG5, he was an imperfect clone of WG's Unit so took on color of yellow, also Creators might have wanted to make his unit easily identifiable since he would be close to original WG for easy comparison.

When I said the cpms were more denfensive in WGC its because although it can be used as a weapon he has to ram into his target instead of firing a blat like is normaly done with the cpms

True but anything he rams, unless shielded, gets vaporized. Just cause he has to ram something does not make it any less a weapon. For example, a gun may have better range compared to a battle axe but both are deadly and in many cases the battle axe can also double as a shield. His Meteor Blast Field also greatly increases his speed so it is one of his most effective attacks.

Finally, well balanced units are nice but we have to put some realism in fic otherwise it'll degrade to total fantasy and then all the rules go out the window. Not to mention make things boring IMO.

[McAvoy]

One more question:

If all the shields on Zeus are standard power on the others (Gigantics, Zoalords, WG2s) then if you add them up:

Gigantic: 1 kiloton

Zoalord: 1/2 to 1 kiloton

Then you shift them in a single direction which should double their power each, then add the standard WG2 CPM shield, and using the second CPM to enhance the shield, you get 6 kilotons.

Is this how you did it?

[xtro guyver]

I guess so. I actually like the WG2 units for some reason. I was also a close reasdr when Zeus came out back in I think it was 2000. He seemed to be the most powerful being ever. Then came Dreadnought and Alkanphel's data files. I don't know, geenrally I like well balanced units.

I remember when I first read Zeus data file as well and I thought oh boy thats gona give chrouns some trouble

[*zeo]

Then you shift them in a single direction which should double their power each, then add the standard WG2 CPM shield, and using the second CPM to enhance the shield, you get 6 kilotons.

Is this how you did it?

I see now where you're getting confused McAvay.

You're assuming he can double forward his shields. Unless the Data File actually says shields can be focused in one direction, then it can't unless shield is directional to begin with and the Zeus Data File does not say that!

The Zeus armor was an experimental prototype to enhance the Warrior Project. It is the only early example that the Creators even considered anything like a Gigantic. The unit, as Agito found it, only provided a basic 2x boost to host unit power, which is reason I mentioned earlier Zeus is technically a 8x. But Agito had acquired a WG2 unit and with it some of the knowledge of WG2 Universe Solom. So he tweaked the armor a bit and added CPM to HSL power system. The Gigantic and Zoalord type shields are generated by same system so power divided between them for a total of 1.5 kiloton strength, which combined with body shield and armor allows him to withstand 2 kiloton blasts from any direction. His pressure cannon though takes full advantage of his power level and gives him a directional 3 kiloton shielding and then add host unit CPM 1 kiloton, gives him the total 6 kiloton durability.

This is also all consistent with Agito's fighting style. As G3 he started with a basic unit and no shields, so he is geared to delivering the damage and not receiving it. The Zeus armor reflects this and grants him a very high firepower rating for his power level. His Hyper Smashers alone have twice the firepower of what they should. Things like the Pressure Cannon also allow him to defend and attack in one move.

[Guest]

I wonder how much more information Zeus got from the WG3 unit, as he was able to create the Zeus armor, it could be possible if he had the resources he could create a warrior unit or upgrade one of the prototypes.