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Already did, as I said before IMO you are viewing genetic enhancement in a very limited view. There are many ways to enhance something genetically, most of which alters the way something works. I.E. Channeling the energy of the Guyver. We're talking conservation of energy YoungGuyver which really can't be argued around. Nowhere in the translation does it specify how exactly the enhancement works only generally. Genetic enhancement to boost strength is just a very simplified explaination that does not give us any clue to how exactly it works. There are distinct limitation to the material strength of human muscle tissue and bone, did you consider the possibility that the genetic enhancement he is refering to is to simply allow the unit to channel its power through host to boost not only strength but structural strength to help withstand the enhanced physical power? Then regardless of muscle mass it would be dependant on how much energy could be channeled to determin the resulting strength. Genetic enhancement can also mean the introduction of DNA which can simply mean the host muscle tissue merges with the Guyver organism. Producing an equilizing factor for the final merged state. Besides the Toys as you call them are all part of how the Guyver works and are integrated to how the whole thing works. Regarding them as anything less is equivalent to dismissing parts of the Guyver like the CM. Looking at them seperately does not give you a complete picture and is the reason I think we are still in disagreement. That and I don't see normal humans as being different enough to noticeably effect the power of the Guyver. I.E.> It would take more than a difference in muscle mass IMO to cause a real difference in power. I don't believe the genetic enhancement works that way.

Only a compatable CM based unit can link up with the Gigantic unit. As for the clones... there are enough fic examples for you to come to a conclusion on where we stand on that point.

Nope, for one thing the scene you are refering to had G2 pressing a sword towards G1's neck. Not a situation where strength was a factor at all unless you think Sho's first instinct was to push himself forward into a vibrational sword inches from his neck? Only the following scene where G2 had G1 pinned with both hands was a test of strength but even equal strength fighters can get each other into such strangle holds. Sho was already banged up and off balance from being knocked around at that point. Risker had him pinned and his feet hanging off the ground, Sho had virtually no leverage at that point. Risker was also really mad so he was applying his full strength to try and crush Sho's neck. Even at equal strength it would have been difficult for Sho to pull Riskers hands off his neck. For those that think this alone caused Risker to go rogue, remember Sho had already slashed his face with his sword and we know from more recent Manga that the CM is vulnerable to sonics so it could have been Sho's attack that finally pushed Risker's CM over the edge and into critical failure. But as for strength remember the earlier scene when Sho withstood the flying kick from Risker. He absorbed that impact and managed to push Risker away, it was only Risker's superior fighting skills that then allowed him to flow with the block and use his flip momentum to then send Sho flying. Sho could even have been stronger than Risker and still gotten himself knocked around since Risker never gave him much of a chance to defend himself except for that one opening when he took his time approaching G1 to chop his head off and G1 took that opening. But even if you are correct, the difference is not as significant as the difference between the host themselves as Sho without his armor would not have been able to defend himself at all against Risker. So in the end I do believe I am correct in thinking the armor is an equilizing factor. More factors to consider, your speed and agility is also dependant on your strength and the Guyvers clearly have equivalent speed and agility. In the Manga G1 and G2 did some jumping during the battle and covered about the same distance. Even in the Anime Sho did a pretty good job of keeping himself from being sliced in half. So I'm not basing my analysis on any one factor but all of them. But it really comes done to how advance you think the Guyver merger is. I simply think it is more advanced than you're considering it to be and the resulting power has more to do with the host mind than their body.

Again IMO that is too literal thinking of what happens when the host gets bio-boosted, I don't believe you're taking into account the energy factor of the Bio-Boost and the fact the Guyver expands upon the host form. I already pointed out a literal enhancement as you are suggesting would have given Risker a 5 to 1 advantage in strength over Sho (We're talking soldier over a boy, not just an adult over a boy, the difference is as big as between an athelete and a couch potato), in neither the anime nor Manga version was he that much stronger than Sho. In both cases Sho was only clearly outclassed in fighting ability. The simple fact he blocked any of the blows would have required near equal strength otherwise he would have been overwhelmed by every blow. Besides genetic enhancement alone would not explain the Guyver strength. Also you are assuming the muscle mass would remain the same in the enhanced state. Since the host clearly returns to a normal state along with all original organs then it is entirely possible the muscle enhancement is equal for all as well. The main and only real difference IMO is leverage and fighting ability. Then there is the human bones which can break with as little as three pounds of pressure at a given point. It'll take more than genetic enhancement to keep those bones from shattering after every blow from a Guyver strength being. In short I believe genetic enhancement is just an oversimplified explaination of the enhancement the Guyver gives its host. Explaining in short how the Unit channels the Bio-Boost energy to enhance the host and give the Guyver its power. I really don't see the Guyver and host as two seperate factors and while Bio-Boosted the resulting combined being is sufficiently decidely not human enough to make literal comparisons between it and the unenhanced host an inaccurate assumption.

Hint: A little known fact is that the WG organism has had elements of the CM integrated into it to make it more controllable and reduce strain upon the CM.

Incorrect, you're forgetting the Bio-Boost factor, Risker's Unit did not malfunction until the end of the fight and was already using his full power, especially in the Manga version, as nothing besides the Mega Smashers really require a large strain upon the Guyver. Besides a unit about to malfunction causes a power overload that temporarily makes the Guyver stronger, not weaker. It's only after the power overload has run its course that the host gets consumed by the unit. It's like a fire, it burns brightest just before it finishes consuming its fuel. The main point of the CM is not only to control and regulate the unit but to keep the unit in balance and prevent the Guyver organism from consuming the host. Without that strict control the unit would simply draw more and more energy until it consumed the host.

Additional factors to consider, many of you are assuming the Guyver muscle system actually works the same way as a normal human. I present to you that it does not. Consider the kinetic booster organs that magnifies the host momentum and overcomes the lack of speed and mass, the exo-skeletal structure of the Guyver armor that allow the Guyver organism to also act as a muscle system, and the host Bio-Boost that powers the whole thing. So the host muscles are really only part of the system and not the whole system. Also consider the predominant example for this debate of the G1 vs G2 fight. Risker was a trained fighter and could probably easily lift up to 2x his own weight while Sho would be lucky if he could bench his own weight being a mere student who did not even play sports. Considering their size difference this probably equated to a 5x difference in strength. Now multiply that by 100 and you got a significant difference in strength that does not match how the battle actually played out. This especially shows itself in the Manga which IMO was more interesting battle than the anime showed, already knew how to use head beam for example. Showing Sho was primarily outclassed in fighting ability and not strength.

Yes, integrated fiber optic mess for creating an optical illusion, the technology is reflected in the fic for the Wolf-Knight armors.

Yes, thanks McAvoy. Real life experience is always appreciated. I would just add the only possible exception to the need to move camouflage would be snipers who can literally make themselves look like part of the scenary but there is no way to hide a tank in the same way unless you bury it, quite simply there aren't any bushes that big and a big rock in the middle of nowhere would be more than suspicious. In which case it would be kinda useless in battle Besides getting hit is their main concern so offsetting enemy fire with camouflage technics is the usual tactic as McAvoy so rightly pointed out. You only get away with camouflaging something that big if it's a transformer but then we wouldn't be dealing with a Guyver fan fic then. Course for those who do want to imagine Transformers fighting Zoanoids, just imagine big metal feet stomping on bugs

As with the example with the cloths the unit will only interfer with such factors when host is regenerated. I.E. The unit does not remove items such as cloths but neither does it regenerate them after host is damaged. So gaps in clothing will show area where host had been damaged. So if the unit regenerates host from just CM then it is possible the hair color would return to its normal state unless unit memorizes certain states from time of bonding like it does for scars. But hair and nails are basically useful waste products of the body so it is questionable at what level of detail the unit would restore them. Consequently a definite answer at this time is pure conjecture since the Manga has not shown any definite examples relevant to your question. Too many questions still abound about such details of the inner workings of the Guyver Unit that until Takaya clears it up we can only guess. That aside my personal guess is that it will restore the host natural hair color and regenerate hair to length host had it at time of bonding. We do know that aside from regeneration host can have makeup and cloths without the unit removing them as it will only remove objects that interfere with host, such as handcuffs, etc. Part of my reasoning is bleaching won't effect natural color perminently any more than hair coloring agents. Only damage to roots will do that so it is unlikely the unit will regenerate altered hair color any more than the unit would regenerate original clothing worn by host at time of bonding. Hope that helps.

Since I'm the tech guy for the fic I'll explain. If you think about it Mech armour is hardly stealthy in the fic's present technological level, we're basically talking about bulky exo-suits that are little more than walking tanks. Thermal and noise signatures will give them away long before they are seen. Besides they are fighting zoaforms which can all have enhanced senses that make conventional camouflage technics useless. The color is then actually for the benefit of the pilots who need to identify friend and foe quickly when fighting in the thick of battle with swarms of zoaforms who in some cases are equally vibrant in their colors. It is important to remember these armours are for fighting zoaforms and not regular humans. Besides color camouflage only works if you put the mechs into similar color battle field. I.E. a jungle camouflage paint job would be useless in a desert terrain. So even a gray tone would be of limited usefulness. Camouflage is also mainly to avoid detection at range so to avoid enemy fire, aside from the bio-weapon zoaforms most battles are close range hand to hand combat which neither bright nor dull color armour will help. This is why mechs are being developed in fic with advance camouflage capabilities like the Wolf Knight armours but they are not designed for head on battles like the other mechs. In the meantime the vibrant colors helps identify each armor type and make organizing them in the heat of battle easier.

Correct 8rucel33, Neo Zektole was created before the appearance of the Gigantic and was made mainly to counter Aptom, being immune to absorbsion, etc. Though quite powerful Neo Zektole was not as powerful as a Zoalord. Neither was he equal to a Gigantic as he was fairly easily defeated by GG1 in the Manga. The fact he withstood G3's Mega Smashers should not come as too great a surprise, remember Neo Zektole was probably one of the most durable characters in the Manga. Consider the triple defense layer of energy shield, adaptive armour, and energy absorbsion. The adaptive armor alone can withstand multiple direct hits from a pressure cannon, which even a zoalord without their shielding would be vulnerable to. Not to mention one of the enhancements given to Neo Zektole was rapid regeneration. Zoalords are powerful but aside from physical strength and raw power their battle forms aren't the most durable in the Manga. They rely heavily on their shields and don't regenerate quickly. Remember most Zoalords were created before the Hypers Zoanoids so their battle form was created more for power than durability. Besides Zoalords are the generals of the Zoanoid army so they were never intended for more than an occassional battle. So are more firepower than defense.

Whoa, there is no way a Warrior Grakken would be 32x, even boosted with CPM's. Maybe with a Destroyer Upgrade but that is Grakken tech and not Creator tech so is a seperate factor. Realistically a Warrior Grakken would be about 8x with CPM max of 12x. Also Type 2's are not vastly more powerful than type 1's. They are mainly just configured differently. Also the use of CPM for power boosting is a Guyver effect so no guaruntee the W-Grakkens would even have that ability. So unless the Grakkens develop a really advance Destroyer Armour then the Creators can make do with Warrior Commander Kavzar.

The difference in the battle between G2 and G1 was a matter of fighting skill, not power. Remember Sho couldn't even budge Agito when he punched him but as Guyvers they display near equal ability. G2 did not over power G1, he out fought him. If G2 had been far stronger than G1 then G1 then he would have died before G2 went rogue. And Max means Max and not just what the host can presently do. The full potential since the host is being enhanced and augmented by the unit the host physical limitations for lack of excersize, etc would not apply for the Guyver since the heart and lungs get replaced and the rest enhanced. As humans we all have about the same physical potential unless you have a genetic abnormality that can give you an edge like extra lung capacity, etc than normal. But so far all host have been standard humans so Guyver enhancement has been close to the same for each. The only factors left are fighting skill and leverage, which are the only things that make Guyvers truly different from each other. The mistake is figuring the host as the only factor, the Guyver itself merges with the host and unless the units are different then the enhancements would be the same.

I disagree. Consider, using Manga for reference, the Guyver is not just a magnification of the host. The unit merges with the host, replacing some organs like the heart and enhancing and modifying bones, etc. So we are not talking about 100x the host since the Guyver is more than just the host. Since the units are the same, all Guyvers consequently have equivalent hearts, etc. So the Guyver is not a power suit that simply enhances the host as is, it literally makes the host all they can be-full human potential. So even though the host capabilities may differ, the unit remains a constant and thus an equilizing factor to this 100x debate. We can clearly see from the Manga that the Guyvers at the very least have equivalent durability, speed and agility. The power of their weapons are also equivalent so their overall energy levels have to be close to each other. If host physical strength was trully a factor than G2 would have had a much greater advantage over G1 during their fight which he did not show. Also consider factors such as mass, speed and leverage. You're talking about a lot of power contained in a body barely larger than the host's. Even with linear enhancement you are not going to get the same proportional results. If you did then the Guyver would be able to run around the speed of sound and weigh just under a ton. Neither of which is the case. Besides I believe the translation said 100 fold, which means max times 100 and not just 100 times norm as 100 times would have meant.

This is wasting board space and is off topic for this section of the board... Topic Locked! If you want a serious discussion on Dreadnought's abilities then repost the topic in the science section.

Nope, nothing cheaper I could find but here's the author's website for the book which includes links to material from chapters found in the book... BARRY CORNELIUS-UNDERSTANDING JAVA

Yes, they did a good job of recreating all the old sci-fi imagery in well rendered CG format. Like the robots with tentical arms are practically right out of the old sci-fi novels as well as old cartoons like Paramount's Superman serials in which he fought the same type of robots. Story could have been a bit better on the second half of the film though but a good nostalgia film nonetheless, in the tradition of such films a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The Rocketeer, etc. I otherwise agree with your assessment. Will make a good addition to the old movie collection

Just clarifying, since I don't have time to fully answer this topic, but your statement is inaccurate, G1 in self defense mode only showed itself to be slightly stronger than Darzerb when applying full strength under an equal leverage position by pushing him back one step. It was only after G1 had used his sonic busters and ruptured Darzerbs eardrums, as well as other damage to his skull, that G1 was then able to easily force him back and out the window. Darzerb at that point was in no condition to properly resist. Your examples fall primarily on how the Guyver was depicted in the anime but Xtro Guyver's analysis is essentially correct. Remember the primary factor for the Guyver effect is the human brain, not the body which by itself is mainly just a tool. The Bio-Boost process itself is catalyzed by infusing the host body with energy from the boost dimension. So the primarily factor is how the power of the Guyver is used. Only if the host ability to be bio-boosted is enhanced, such as being a zoaform, will physical ability become a possibly overwhelming factor. I have my own theories on the specifics but nothing is cannon until Takaya makes it official.

Yes, it was low on the believability scale. Though it was funny to see Lisa Ryder play the part of the Android instead of Lexa Doig (TV series Andromeda reference). Plus the nanotech enhanced Jason was interesting, though predictable. But as you said the VR scenes were funny.

Actually this is more fan fic than science so moved topic to fan fic section. Following your hypothosis the Creators would basically create a unit similar to a Matrix enhanced Warrior Guyver, just without the Matrix, it'll all be built into the unit naturally. Though far more likely they will go the Kavzar route and simply develop an Enforcer type being with Dreadnought like enhancements.

Allen has said this repeatedly before, "W'Kars are not Guyvers", despite their similarities W'Kars are a very different bioweapon from Guyvers. Guyvers only partially merge with their host while W'Kars fully merge. This allows for such abilities as being able to remain conscious and combat capable even after being decapitated since W'Kars are far less human than Guyvers and are thus capable of exceeding normal limits. Part of the confusion comes from the fact that the original W'Kar unit acted like a normal Guyver unit when first activated by Greg Lucas. The original W'Kar unit only behaved like a normal Guyver unit because it was damaged. But once fully healed it will completely merge with the host to form a new lifeform. The main thing to remember is that the W'Kar unit was designed for power, not technology. The Control Medal was primarily added to contain and utilize the W'Kar element. Only the later W'Kar reproduction introduced advanced tech and are more Guyver like. So W'Kars are capable of being far more powerful than Guyvers and with the energy draining power system they have the ability to maintain those high power levels. Despite all the advance technology of a Warrior Unit it is still only a Guyver Unit so is limited by the host.

No, what I said was... which means I saw it in a theater! As far as I know they never released a fully uncut version to video. I haven't seen the DVD release yet so I don't know if this has changed yet. Though I hear the laser disc, I'm talking about the record player sized discs that no one uses anymore, version had everything including extras.

(Slams a very large mallet on Darkness's head for being too lazy to check fic for facts) No the Darmon Crystal was stolen from the Creators by the Grakken's who had no idea what it was. They only knew it was powerful and dangerous so they used it to enhance one of their experiment killer drones but the Creators captured it and experimented on it, not realizing the Darmon crystal was inside it, this is when the Hunter in the fic came to be and escaped from the Creators before heading to Earth. It is only after the Hunter was destroyed and Crystallite was created that the true nature of the Darmon crystal was revealed.

Most likely you just got an edited for time version Mutronborg. I haven't seen the DVD release yet so I don't know if even the US version is totally uncut. I was fortunate enough to catch the movie in its initial release during a canned film festival in New York City. So I remember scene details that were not included in the New Line Cinema video release. If they just ported the movie to DVD then the movie is still a cut version. Though most of the missing scenes were just shaved seconds off the movie. Like during the Guyver Zoanoid activation scene, originally it showed the tendrils oozing over the zoanoid as the unit activated right after he said Biomorph. The video release only showed the transformation take place off screen as Sean and the others watched. I just hope the DVD release will be the directors cut or at least have extras that include the deleted scenes.