zeo

Better hurry, won't be long before Brian locks the topic. Okay Maverik, you want us to review your theory then we will. 1-The question as to who created the Guyver Unit has never been in doubt. The only thing not known is where they got the Guyver organism from. But however they acquired the organism they bio-engineered it into the Guyver Unit with their CM technology. Ergo they Created the Guyver Unit. There is no way around that, everything from the Guyver Unit to the Relic to the Unit remover has a CM and is thus Creator technology. Then there is the rogue Sho clone which most definitely showed us that the Guyver Unit is not the natural state of the Guyver organism. The Guyver may be living technology but it is technology none the less. All of which is academic to the simple fact of the Guyver Unit's purpose and function. 2-There is a reason why living organism use DNA, quite frankly it is the most compact way to store data molecularly. You can assume all you want but that doesn't change the science upon which the process must follow in order to fulfill the function of the Guyver Unit. It was made from the start to bond to a living sentient being and it does not matter what world that being came from as long as they are sentient and living for the Guyver Unit to bond to them. Differences in DNA is irrevelant as long as all the lifeforms capatable with the Guyver Unit use DNA. All the Creator technology is based around the control and manipulation of organic based living material. Quite simply clothing is not compatable with that technology. Sure it would be nice if the Unit could regenerate clothing but wanting something does not make it come true. I.E.> The Unit had months to regenerate Sho's clothing while he was cocooned, scenes like when Balcus sensed something alive within the cocoon shows that Sho was already regenerated within, but when the Unit finally disengaged it left him naked. So even given months the Unit did not regenerate so much as his underwear. As I said before, I simply don't see the regeneration of clothing to be part of the unit's capabilities.

Remember YoungGuyver, you once argued against me on the adaptability of the Guyver Unit. It seems on this particular point our stances are reversed Ok lets not forget a few very important factor when it comes to primitive humans, namely that even in the Guyver universe they evolved and survived on this planet on their own long before the Creators decided we finally developed to the point they could use us as weapons. Up until we finally showed up in the evolutionary ladder the most the Creators did was arrange mass extinctions with the occassional moon size impact to eliminate any evolutionary dead ends. So animal skins are hardly a sign of alien influence. The Creators only cared about our brain, everything else was just raw material. Now for the Creators to have used clothing you would have to assume the Creators evolved along the similar evolutionary lines as ourselves to have any need or want for clothing for any reason, cultural or otherwise. We know for example that at least one Relic maintained a liquid filled environment and probably spent eons exploring the universe, not an environment that lends itself to wearing anything unessential. Not to mention factors such as their unimind that would eliminate individual need to be all different... All factors that makes it improbable that the Creators would have used anything like what we would call clothing or even tool belts. Also consider the Creators are beings capable of influencing their environment with nothing but their will, even to the point that they could warp space and send a moon from somewhere else and use it as a weapon. They would have no need for such simple physical concerns as clothing . . . Besides Alkanphel is the real test for your line of reasoning YoungGuyver and he was not given clothing of any type. Besides we know the Guyver Unit does remove anything that would obstruct it like handcuffs, etc. so there is very little room for anyone using a unit to wear or carry anything. Though a real test would be to see if any of the Guyvers wears a lot of clothing, like artic suvival gear clothing, and see if the unit accepts the extra mass or destroys it as an obstruction. But as to the matter of regeneration, I can see no way the Unit would be able to include enough data on the cloths, each and everytime it was activated, to regenerate the clothing. At the very least you would need cloths made of actual living tissue to really make it a possibility and we don't yet have the technology to do that. Really, if I thought it was even remotely possible I wouldn't be argueing so strongly against this idea.

guyverfanatic, the 40x rating is for the fan fic power estimate, this is the official only Guyver section of the board. I understand the confusion but please be more careful in the future when giving out figures. It can be argued both ways on what abilities Alkanphel does and does not have. All we know for certain at this point is despite his weakened condition he is still the most powerful Zoalord and has a wide range of abilities yet to be revealed. drag-5 is correct on the abilities so far demonstrated. I'll just add that at his prime Alkanphel's ultimate attack pulverized a moon the Creators sent hurtling towards Earth, but a good sized chunk did get past him and sent the world into an ice age. This however did show that Alkanphel once had the power to cause enough destruction as to wipe out all life on the planet in a single attack if he had so wished. Additionally he has demonstrated enough telekinetic and/or spacial warping capability as to be able to redirect Guyver Mega Smashers a full 180 degrees which he demonstrated when he redirected a total of 3 mega smasher beams back towards G1 and G3 in the Manga. Besides that he has also piloted the Ark without the assistance of the other Zoalords, which as far as we know none of the other Zoalords can claim to do without the support of the other Zoalords.

Actually drag-5 that isn't a valid arguement. Besides the fact you are refering to the part of my argument that only addresses the fact some think the host mind would make the unit regenerate the cloths. You ignored the segment on how our DNA on up works and how the unit can retain information on hair length and scar tissue. Everything living in the human body has either DNA or RNA, everything else is produced from those living parts of us. And btw we have the genetic makeup of all living things on this planet in our DNA, we don't use all of our DNA a lot of it is left over from our evolution but we share DNA with just about all life on the planet with a shared ancestory going back to when we were all basically bacteria. Neither did I say that when the Unit stores the DNA of the host that it limits itself to just those directly responsible for the us. I do expect everyone on the board to actually think these things through on their own. We evolved symbiotically with a host of lifeforms. Every complex lifeform on the planet shares DNA with each other. Even our individual cells, the mitochondria was originally a sperate lifeform that merged with the first cells and allowed, thanks to the energy they generated, for the later evolution of more complex lifeforms. Besides aside from a stem cell no one cell in our body has our entire DNA. Simply put without a way to store the data of a materia it CAN NOT be recreated. We don't have as much body hair as apes because we evolved that way to avoid lice and other parasites, not to mention the planet was a lot warmer when our primitive ancestors evolved to walk upright and run long distances due to a super nova that was just close enough to alter the planet's climate way back then. We retained head hair to keep our brains warm but like some other parts of our body we don't really need it to survive anymore but they persist because the DNA for their formation is still within our makeup. To make this more clear everything the Guyver creates is from a pattern it has stored the data for. So without a means to acquire the data for cloths, each and every time the unit is used since the host does change clothing, then it simply is not logical to believe the unit would regenerate clothing. I already explained why hair and nails are different from cloths, you can ignore the science if you want but you can't change the facts. Besides if Takaya had wanted the unit to regenerate clothing he would have shown it doing so already. You may believe it possible but this is the science section so you have to back up that believe with logical reasoning.

Logic is the interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen as inevitable or predictable. Simply following scientific procedure on the process of elimination we can infer that the Creators did not have clothing. Comparing clothing to the Guyver Unit is false since the Guyver unit is a living device, clothing is a far more primitive concept and is not alive. The Creators could control their environment and with the Guyver unit they had no need for any physical adaptation to adapt to environments. Additionally if the Creators had the concept of clothing they would have clothed their creations but they did not. All the ancient humans and Alkanphel himself were left totally nude. We clothed ourselves, the Creators never bothered and never had a need to. Besides it strengthens my arguement that the Creators had no cloths by pointing out the Guyver Unit YoungGuyver. They never needed anything as primitive as clothing and since the unit already served far better the function of protecting the host it would be a waste for the Unit to even try adapting to something that is not part of the host like clothing. As for fallacy, it is fallacy to assume the Unit would regenerate clothing when their is no scientific bases for that assumption. Neither the Guyver technology nor what we know of the Creators backs that assumption. Clarification on human DNA, human DNA is not as simple as many think. Previously it was thought DNA was the sole source of our complexity but after the GENOME project we have learned that our DNA is not so complex but rather we produce more complex forms of protein molecules that grant's us a more complex level of interaction than the DNA alone provides. DNA is just the basis for everything, but there are two levels above it that allow for complex lifeforms such as ourselves. The complexity of the protein types our body produces is one, the next and final level is the EM field our cells produce. MRI's have shown us that the human body produces complex fields in the pattern and shape of our organs and body shape. Scans of people with recently lost limbs still produce fields in the shape and form of the lost limb for up to several weeks after the fact. Lab research that altered this field also altered the pattern of growth of cultured cell samples indicating this as a valid factor of considerations. So when refering to DNA I am only refering to the basic base level that everything on then bases itself on. Blood cells may not have DNA but they are produced by the body just like everything else in our body, including hair and nails which is a natural function of our bodies which is the point I was trying to make. This all explains how the Unit can retain information on scar tissue, hair length, and such as any long time damage would not only be reflected in our DNA, due also to the damage, but also to the body's EM field which would have reflected the pattern of the scar. But cloths have no DNA and non-living things do not produce the complex chemical and EM fields that living things produce so the Unit would not have what it needs to base the regeneration of cloths upon. And before reverting to host mind for including clothing, how many of you know the molecular pattern of clothing? And you expect the unit to both know this and remember it on top of all the host and unit data without even having a clear way of scanning the clothing each and every time the unit is activated? The Unit itself, the gravity orb may not be organic but it has the pattern to base itself upon in the CM. There is no bases for that for clothing and no reason yet given the Unit would include clothing patterns into its database even if it could generate the materials the cloths are made of. As for the memory example, the CM is wired directly into the host brain and can easily update itself on host memory upon activation without updating its entire data upon the host. The very fact the unit stores itself dimensionally allows it to always be in mental contact with the host through the Telepathic organism. Simply because the unit updates host memories does not mean it updates everything. The Creators waited eons for the natural evolution of the human mind, the body was never a big concern for them. For such a cerebral race such as the Creators and factors such as the CM unimind the only thing the Unit would really concern itself about updating would be the host mind. The physical body is just a tool to be maintained, without the mind it is useless. As argued before about the possibility the Guyver host are basically immortal the possibility the host physical form being updated is limited at best. Even to the extend I argued for about the possibility of growing to adulthood before the host stops aging does not extend the possibility to include the data on clothing. As for the unit getting past the clothing, phasing is a possibility but the unit got past the clothing at the time of bonding when both it and the host were both is normal space time. Remember clothing is not a solid impentratable barrier, it is composed of fibers and such so has pores and spaces that a shape shifting organism like the Guyver organism can easily slip through. The only significant barrier would be the shoes because of the toes. Phasing could explain this or the unit could simply absorb the cloths and unabsorb them upon deactivation.

Okay, the problem is this idea of regenerating clothing does not follow what we know about the Guyver unit. It is a living device created to be used by living sentient beings. Clothing is not alive and is not physically part of the host. The unit would see it as no more than a thin barrier between it and the host. The simple fact the unit allows the clothing to remain at all is amazing enough. The Creators didn't have cloths and even though we are alien to the Creators we are both living sentient beings so the fact the Guyver Units work on us in no way supports the idea that the unit could somehow adapt to regenerate cloths. Clothing is an invention for us to adapt to our environment, Creators controlled their environment and use the Guyver Unit so they had no need for clothing. Also Alkanphel was born naked and never given any cloths by the Creators, so your trying to say the unit would adapt to an alien concept such as clothing simply because it is on the host at the time. The Creators used organic technology, they could adapt to what ever environment they may find themselves in. Clothing is a primitive adaptation which is little more than improvision. The only thing they took a long time to develop was the human brain, once they developed that they had no problem turning us into Zoaforms. Even among human cultures clothing was invented more for the necessity than anything else. Tribes in warm climates still hardly wear anything they don't have to. The only other reason to wear cloths is emotions like shame, etc which is very iffy if the Creators had them or whether they had any concern for their physical form at all, which by itself is iffy with what we know about the Creators. Hair and nails may be generated from our body waste products but they are part of our makeup, they serve a purpose, just like horns, claws, etc serve a purpose for other animals. So they are part of us and in noway can you compare that to cloths. The real question is not whether the unit is capable of regenerating clothing but rather whether it would ever bother. Clothing is not alive and not physically part of the host. It has no DNA nor any DNA from which it can be patterned after. Hair and nails may be waste products but they are generated because our DNA tells our body to produce them. There is nothing to support the regeneration of clothing. The simple fact is there is nothing in the manga that supports the idea of cloths regenerating that can't be explained by either the cloths being too baggy to see the tears or by censorship by the publisher. You are all entitled to your opinions but logically there is no real basis for this conclusion.

Consider, the Guyver Unit is a creation of the Aliens that most probably did not have our equivalent of cloths. Clothing is a human invention so why would the unit even consider it for regeneration? Logically it would not and even if it did it would have defaulted to the host original clothing for the same reason it restores scars and such. Since that is clearly not the case then it very unlikely the unit would ever bother with regenerating clothing. Secondly, I believe you are refering to the censored version of the Manga for that clothing example. Even then it is baggy on her and the blood could have simply been absorbed by the unit when it regenerated his wound. Also consider all the other times the Guyver has been damaged, even after the unit is maintained longer than required to regenerate host the cloths are still not repaired, but similarly they are not bloody.

Well remember FOG3 modern day clothing are no longer made of purely organic materials so it would not be likely the Unit would be able to regenerate them even if for some reason it would even bother trying. After all clothing is a human invention and is doubtful the Creators would have used anything equivalent. Besides cloths are not physically part of the host so no reason for the Unit to bother with it. A good example is when they revealed the Gigantic in the Manga, Sho had been cocooned for months, this was clearly more for the unit's benefit than his since it took nowhere near that time for his CM to regenerate him, and when the unit finally disengaged it left a very naked Sho. That aside I do think there is some truth to your priorities theory for host regeneration, but only with two levels of priority.

Murakami was worked on in the Manga and they couldn't extend his life, only help heal him and buy him time. So the Zoacrystal did have something to do with it but regardless the fact that he is now Imakarum shows that Shizu can also be given a real Zoa-Crystal and reprocessed into a more stable and more powerful form.

Ah, quite a bit longer than 5 years. Kinda went over that in Meeting's fic... But time does not flow the same throughout the multiverse so lag time is a relative factor.

Yes, just like Imakarum. Similarly she could also become significantly more powerful.

W'Kar does not have a HSL in the same way as a WG. What W'Kar has is a hyper space orb, basically the HSL equivalent of a gravity control orb that allows W'Kar to access hyper space but is primarily for teleporting. So though he can use it to syphon energy from hyper space it is not integrated into his power system like a WG's HSL is. The damage done to W'Kar's unit is far more extensive than you are aware of and is closely linked to the W'Kar element. His unit thus has dimensional factors that takes more than just a HSL to repair. The Reproduction Units are more like hybrid Guyver/W'Kar units, basically best of both types to produce extremely powerful units. So they are not true W'Kar units in the strictest sense but are extremely powerful in their own right. They just don't have as much potential as the original does.

Whatever gave you that idea? Like yeah Alkanphel can read all the Zoalords minds so that explains why he just stood there while Guyot prepared to fire the black hole attack at him, right? I think that puts a noticeable dent into your theory. As for the Remover, there are other ways Alkanphel could have learned about that, for one thing he was the last one to use one and could have simply sensed its presence, or read the mind of the scientists that helped Guyot research the device to figure out how to work it, or Balcus did tell him about it but did not know what it was until Alkanphel said what it was. Not to mention Zoalord telepathy has a range limit so even if he could probe Guyot's mind he probably had to get close and Guyot would have to be consciously thinking about it at the time. Besides being telepathic does not mean you can gleam every thought of another being at will. There are levels of telepathy just like there are levels of consciousness. And just because the Zoalords use Crystals taken from Alkanphel does not mean he can just override their mental defenses and read them like open books. Guyot planned for a long time before he was caught. Hell, even a human like Agito got away with scheming for a long time before he was found out. You also have to understand, Zoalord telepathy is more about control than it is about communication. Not to mention the Zoalord mindset, why read thought when you can make someone do anything you want? As for the three Zoalords, also remember Alkanphel isn't around as much as he use to be so it is relatively easy for them to keep secrets.

Note the name change from Murikami to Imakarum, if you noticed they are mirror spelling of each other. Basically going by the personality reversal type brainwashing that causes things like right handed people to become left handed and a general reversal of all personality traits. So people he hated he now likes and people he liked he now hates, etc. That and his link with Alkanphel has totally changed him into an absolute follower of Alkanphel.

Cool, thanks for the info Weltall2

That's a good way to becoming road kill Another factor is Kronos is a corrupt organization, three Zoalords have even assassinated another and blamed it on the Guyvers. Not to mention Guyot's failed attempt at overthrowing Alkanphel. Then there is the little matter of ticking off the Creators who have a nasty habit of creating spacial warps to throw moons at us whenever they feel like starting over from scratch. Yeah, like that is really a hard choice.

Correction, online petitions almost never work. There have been a few rare occassion upon which they've succeeded. Rare but enough not to say never. But I agree, this is BS, especially after the game has been delayed for over a year as is but copyright protection ideas from the industry have been rather anti-consumer over the past few years so this does not really come as a surprise, after all many microsoft products already employ similar anti-piracy tactics. Though you're probably right guyverfanatic, they would probably come out with a hack solution long before they change that policy. Though microsoft is making even the hack solution difficult, like with Halo2 making it impossible to play online if your using a moded xbox.

Well we know from Murikami Kronos made several prototypes for Guyot and that advance zoaforms have a generally lower success rate than mass produced standard types, so it would only be logical to assume Kronos made test prototypes for each Zoalord before finalizing the design for each since they could ill afford failure and thus loss of a potential Zoalord. So this scientist probably had access to even Zoalord level processing and thus knew enough to make his own zoa-crystals as was done for the other proto-zoalords. It is doubtful though, IMO, that he would have had a hand in adjusting Balcus as otherwise he would have told Agito about it. The main reason he joined up with Agito was to prove he was the best Zoaform scientist. So he would have at least boasted about adjusting Balcus even if he felt no need to warn Agito about those adjustments. We also know Griselda has a limited lifespan consistant with proto-zoalords so her Zoa-crystal is definitely artifical.

Confusing a conquered people to willingly accepting people is a mistake drag-5, Kronos defeated all the major world governments when they took over. The people have no choice but to accept them and since Kronos has totalitarian control over the world and the media they can make the Guyvers look as bad as they want. The price for the so called peace Kronos may give the world is too high IMO, so I would definitely side with the Guyvers.

Cancer are cells that basically won't die when they are supposed to so become malignant growths. This can be cause by a number of factors ranging from a virus to toxic chemicals to radiation, all basically causing some form of genetic damage to the cell's DNA and thus causing them to become cancerous. Which consequently can effect the body's immune system and cause secondary factors that ultimately lead to death. Basically the longer you live the higher your chances of getting cancer since you accumalate genetic damage as you age. There is no such thing as a perfect human but there is ideal conditions upon which a person will have to meet before they get processed into a zoaform. After all not only are they having their DNA radically altered but their physical form as well. Simply moving around internal organs and altering how the body works can put a massive strain on a person, risking shock, internal bleeding, and general organ failure during the processing. So the person will have to be able to survive the processing. The more radical the changes the greater the strain and the longer it will take to process a person. I.E.> Something closer to the host metabolism would induce a lesser strain and will have a higher success rate than a zoaform that is very different from a human's norm. Which is why Ramotith is a much more successful design than Gregole, which is a reptilian based zoaform. As for Risker, there are three basic reasons why he was training to become a hyper zoanoid. One was to put himself at the level of health needed for him to successfully survive being processed, just like a person needs to be healthy enough to survive surgery before they risk cutting into you Two, he had to prepare his combat skills and mindset for his new intended form. After all Hyper Zoanoids are usually very specialized in their abilities so he would have to train to be proficient in the use of the abilities they intended to give him. Finally, the third reason is rank, hypers are the next up in the command chain so Risker also had to prove himself worthy of the position. It is always wise to give the most power to those who can best use it.

Well remember we are talking about an island that can freely submerge itself for centuries at a time, did it ever occur to anyone that the whole island could be a converted Relic? After all Relics are very plant like in their overall design and appearance so what would happen if one simply decided to take root? Not an impossible idea after all the Ark was made from the remains of a Relic so the organism it is made from is not entirely locked into one shape and function, at least when not linked to a CM. Speaking of the Ark, remember it was made from plans left by the Creators so Alkanphel could indeed have had access to at least some of the Creators tech and knowledge which he could then have passed on to Balcus. As to Balcus having a battle form that depends on several factors we don't have the answer to at the moment. Namely, how much power would Alkanphel would have entrusted to Balcus who was the first human he had met since possibly when the Creators left Earth versus as YoungGuyver suggested the limitation to Alkanphel's resources at the time? Simply because he trust him now does not mean he originally trusted him that much. Then there are factors like what abilities Alkanphel would have bestowed upon Balcus that would have factored into the appearance of the presently theoretical battle form for Balcus? We do know Balcus helped contain Guyot's black hole attack so he at the least has some gravitational power. If Balcus purpose was simply to help form Kronos for Alkanphel then he may not have been given a battle form for the simple reason he would not have needed one for his intended purpose. Unless like suggested he upgraded himself over time. Then there is the question as to how stable his battle form would be if he does have one. It could be he doesn't transform because it is too great a strain to maintain for long or worse it could threaten his life. On the flip side he could be Kronos's secret weapon We'll just have to wait till Takaya feels like revealing it to us.

We are not that much in disagreement, both YoungGuyver and I agree on the overall process of how the host and unit merge and how the resulting combined being functions. We just disagree on the extent the effect of muscle mass would have on the strength. The organ replacement previously discussed is an equilizing factor for example. I don't however disagree that muscle mass can have an effect and both YoungGuyver and I agree that within the ballpark range the Guyvers are pretty much equal, after all exact percentage of strength is almost impossible to calculate without exact figures. My only contention is that it would take significant differences in muscle mass to really see a difference in Guyver strength. The units at least brings the host closer to equal strength than they would be without the unit. We otherwise agree. There are just factors like the rate energy can be infused into the bone and muscle tissue to enhance them versus the energy handling tolerance values of the average human host and whether differences in mass would offset those values and if so then by how much, etc. to consider. But yes, until Takaya gives us exact figures for each Guyver's physical performance factors then we can only speculate at this point. But we can at least agree on the ballpark figures

Yup, they did the same thing with the Lord of the Ring series and Hellboy. Releasing the full feature extras version up to months later after everyone has gotten the plain vanilla version. But it is better than the old days where you got no extras, period. No idea as I don't even think anyone is planning one yet, the rumors so far are only fan based.

Muscle mass is only one factor for muscle strength. There are physical factors and efficiency that must also be factored, such as body fat index and how well the body can deliver fuel to muscle tissue. Also whether or not the muscles have been conditioned to improve efficiency, whether or not there is a good balance between speed and stamina muscle types, etc. Not all muscles are equal. I.E.> Apes, monkeys, etc have the same basic muscle tissue as humans but due to limb length and life long conditioning they are far stronger than us. Weight lifting, martial arts, athletes, etc all have different ratios of muscle types. I.E.> A sprinter has different muscle type ratios than a marathon runner of equal muscle mass, etc. For an extreme example as humans we can have a body like the Hulk and still only have the strength of about twenty men and we would weigh about as much as a rhino (think around 2 tons). While the Guyver gives a massive boost to physical strength with a relatively minimal increase in mass and size. For my analysis I factored the way the human body works, mass to power ratio, speed and agility, the Bio-Boost process and how much the human body can handle, how the Guyver merges with and enhances the host, how quickly each Guyver could apply their physical strength (examples like how long it takes for a Guyver to crush a zoanoid's skull, etc), the differences between the known Guyver hosts, how well each Guyver performed in battle, and compared all that to how the Guyver would perform under 100x Norm versus 100 max potential. Cardiovasculy there is no doubt the Guyver produces an equilizing factor since the host heart and lungs are replaced by the Guyver. This means the same amount of blood is pumped for each so the rate the muscles are fed would be about the same. The only question comes in how the muscle and bone are enhanced. Simply saying they are genetically enhanced to be stronger does not tell us exactly how they are made stronger. If for example they are enhanced to channel the power of the Bio-Boost then they become conduits to the Guyver's power and are thus limited to how well the unit can regulate that power through the host and how well the host can handle the flow of power. The human body can only handle so much energy regardless of muscle mass so additional muscle mass under those conditions would not produce significantly greater strength. If however the muscles and bones are enhanced to be denser and have a more durable molecular structure, which would be required to overcome the physical limitation of human bone and muscle tissue, then the Guyver would be a lot heavier than it is. Also remember that what ever is done is completely reversible since the host has no enhancement when the armor is not active. Now scientifically it is possible to produce artificial muscles with 100x the equivalent muscle power of human muscle tissue of equal mass. But it would be composed of exotic materials like bucky tube based muscle wire alloy. This is basically equivalent to having diamonds for muscles. Now considering the human body is not composed of anything comparable aside from carbon, since we are carbon based lifeforms, then consider how the genetic enhancement would work without dramatically altering the way the host bone and muscle work? Consequently there is no doubt in my mind that aside from any possible genetic advantages that the only significant difference between the Guyvers are their fighting ability, leverage, and will power. Though to make it clear I'm not saying host physical differences don't have an effect, only that IMO it would take a much more significant physical difference than that between G1 and G2 to produce a significant difference in strength.

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