zeo

Yes, remember the flow of time is directly related to your present velocity in relation to the speed of light limit. The closer you get to the speed of light the more time gets dilated. Though you have to be going pretty near the speed of light for really noticable time dilation... Acceleration is only the increase in velocity as you get closer to maximum velocity. While Velocity is your actual speed. Yes, essentially the speed of light. Though it changes depending on what medium you are traveling through and whether or not an outside force is effecting it like a strong gravity field. Something like a black hole can essentially warp space in on itself and thus lowers the vector differential between your velocity and the speed of light. That would be gravity, as it warps space it distorts your path basically and can even drag the path in a new direction. They call that frame dragging, since objects like rapidly spinning black holes can literally drag space/time along with it. So say a beam of light was shot at it - it would bend around the black hole before going into it. Kinda like a whirlpool effect, similarly if the spinning black hole is moving as well as spinning the space/time around it gets dragged along with it.

More or less correct, gravity warps space... which in turn alters the rate you can move through space. Here, since you can probably understand the math this link should help with the detail... http://online.redwoods.edu/INSTRUCT/darnol.../Relativity.htm

Okay, basically when I think these things out I basically lay it out in my mind like a math problem... Starting with given facts and then reasoning out conclusions from there... (Warning, this will be a long explanation) (Given) •We can establish that the Guyver gets its power from the Boost Dimension... that much is not in dispute. What the activation description in the Data File indicates is that the Unit augments the host by instantly remodeling them and infusing the host with energy from the Boost Dimension... correct? (Reasoning) •Now here's the part where I took several factors and added them together for a conclusion... A) The Bio-Boost Creature indicates that the Bio-Boost is a natural function of the Organism. (This related to your point of why doesn't the Bio-Boost power the Zoanoids if that is what they use to transform) B) The Bio-Boost Creature did not have a Gravity Control Orb, but if it could still Bio-Boost then the GCO is not needed for the Bio-Boost. C) If the GCO is not needed for the Bio-Boost but draws power from the same source then that indicated it serves another purpose. (Basically A+B=C type thinking) Inferring that these three lines of thought equate to each other, then these three lines of thought together gives an indication that the Guyver Unit is using the GCO to supplement its energy. But that brings up the question as to why it would need to... •The next step in my reasoning seeks to answer this... Now I know you previously answered that the answer was "Efficiency" but, in my reasoning, in order to effect a change in the efficiency of a power system you need to basically regulate/change the flow of energy. But adding a second power source would not regulate the flow of energy, it's supplementing it. (An example of Efficiency, to me, would be the Gigantic Power Amps, since they change the flow of energy and thus the efficiency of the power system.) Going from there... If you are supplementing a power source it's the same as say adding a backup generator to your house. The purpose is not for efficiency but to provide power when the main power source does not. (Similarly to using batteries in a solar power system, the batteries are there to provide energy when the sun doesn't. This is what I would normally equate with the use of a supplemental power source.) This line of reasoning suggests to me that the Initial Bio-Boost of the Unit does not provide a continuous power source. If true then this means the GCO was created to supplement the Guyver's energy supply. •The reason I then described it as a secondary power source was because I've concluded that it is a secondary device to the Organism's own Bio-Boost and because it seems to me that the Activation Bio-Boost provides far more power than the GCO. •My reasoning for power disparity is based on the following observations... 1) When activated the unit would require a massive amount of energy to instantly remodel the host and empower all the Guyver weapon systems. 2) The deactivation and then reactivation of the Unit by Sho seemed to indicate the Armor can regenerate faster from the activation Bio-Boost since it was still damaged when it was deactivated but Bio-Freezer noted that all the damage was gone when the Armor was reactivated moments later. 3) When Agito Stole the Gigantic from Sho it had been heavily damaged in the battle with Purg'stall but when it appeared on Agito an instant later it showed no damage at all and was only low on energy. (Note I also infer from this that a massive amount of energy was needed to regenerate the Gigantic so quickly that even if that energy was not sufficient to fully recharge the Gigantic it still out classed the energy provided by the GCO when you compare rates of regeneration) 4) It can be noted that during normal operations the Guyver regeneration may be fast but still takes several minutes just to regenerate a chest wound and other damage. (Note I'm assuming rate of regeneration equates directly with the level of available energy because if the Guyver doesn't eat then the only source for the mass required for regeneration has to come from absorbed energy and for the Guyver we know this comes from the Boost Dimension) These four observations add up to me to indicate that the GCO is inferior to the Activation Bio-Boost, and to me an inferior power source is secondary. •This now gave two conclusions... 1) The Natural Bio-Boost was not a continuous source of Energy. 2) The Reason the Guyver can use the Boost Dimension for Continuous power is because it's energy infusion from the Bio-Boost is being supplemented by the GCO. •Now assuming all my reasoning is correct I then applied it to your argument that the Bio-Boost theory would not explain the Zoanoid Mass change because it would provide them with energy and thus they should be more powerful and not tire. The conclusions I gathered from my lines of reasoning indicate to me that the Bio-Boost appears to only provide energy while the boost dimension is being accessed. Add that it was my understanding of the Guyver Organism that the Bio-Boost was a natural part of its function but that in its original state it was a parasitic organism. If the Organism evolved both the ability to Bio-Boost but is still a Parasite, then this indicates to me that the organism didn't use the Bio-Boost for energy. Since to me having a limitless source of energy would remove the need to eat just like it does for the Guyver. By process of elimination of possibilities then the solution that I arrive at is that the Organism evolved the Bio-Boost to help it alter its mass to better mimic the beings it devoured. •This then answers your point on why the Zoanoids don't get more energy from the Bio-Boost if that is indeed what they use to help them alter their mass and transform as my theory suggests. Since my conclusion from my conjectured lines of thought indicate the natural bio-boost is just a means for altering mass rapidly. So like a siphon pump, the energy from the boost dimension is only accessed during the mass shift and once achieved it stops. Thus explaining why zoanoids can't use the effect to gain more energy. I also reasoned that efficiency would also factor in that in order to access the Boost Dimension a certain amount of energy had to be given by the Zoanoid to make the link, though the Bio-Boost may give some of that back it would be equivalent to a process of diminishing returns if most of the energy only goes to adjusting mass. Does all that make my reasoning understandable?

Check the VDF (An official book published detailing most of the information on the Guyver Universe) topic in the Guyver Advocacy Area (image file names indicate which pages I got them from), they scanned the whole book and translated just about everything into english, just like they did most of the Manga. As for Molecular Self Assembly, remember the Guyver can regenerate from just a few cells and the CM. So apparently it draws all it needs from the Boost Dimension. The data file does say the Guyver doesn't need to eat, as one of the reasons why it regresses the internal organs since they aren't needed in Guyver form. And I would think that if the unit can regenerate calcium for bone, iron for blood, etc... then it can regenerate other minerals and elements as wells. As to what I think they are, I think the whole Guyver, including the CM, is a combination of all elements... Explaining to me anyway, why the Guyver is so tough (composite materials composition) and why G1 weighs 575 pounds (very dense) while he is not even 6 feet tall. Just look up the weight of stone and metal statues for comparison. Simply put a purely organic body would not be that heavy at that size because we're mostly made up of water! Even someone wearing medeval style body armor would be hard pressed to be that heavy at that height. Course the Bio-Boosted Creature was also pretty heavy (I think it was Book 2 that showed its exact weight and height in Creature form), possibly indicating the organism may not be purely organic.

Okay, I'll give it a shot... Basicallly in relativistic contexts the rate at which time passes depends on an object's velocity relative to the speed of light (the fastest speed something can move through space), consequently anything that effects space would then also effect your velocity and thus effect how time flows for you. Demonstrating the link between Time and Space. This all stems from a dimensional view of the Universe... The first three dimensions make up the 3D space we live in but to allow those three dimensions to interact there needs to be a fourth dimension that the first three can interact within. Otherwise the 3rd dimension becomes time and we would all be 2 dimensional beings. This fourth dimension is thus what we would call time and allows us to interact in three dimensions, and since you need all the dimensions to work together to make it all work then time(4th-D) and space(1st 3-D) are all part of the same thing. For example, without the other dimensions any single dimension will collapse into a singularity. Combine 2 and the possibilities explode into 2D space, but it needs a 3rd for interaction and thus a time reference. Take a movie reel for example, if for argument sake you supposed the images on the film were alive. Then moving the film through the 3rd dimension would give the 2D beings a time reference and thus they would experience time. But change the rate the film is played and you alter the flow of time for that 2D perspective. You might recognize this analogy from its more popular "Flatlander" name. . . Since our point of reference is from within the 3 Dimension of interaction, we aren't fully aware of the 4th dimension since we never can perceive all of it. But both space and time have to work together in order to work and thus anything that effects either also effects the other. Such as gravity... Bending space it causes the rate of interaction to change and thus slow time down. It's easier to explain mathematically, like the fact we measure speed with refering to both time and distance. Time lets use determine the rate a distance is covered and the rate that distance is covered lets us determine how much time was involved... Basically showing they suppliment each other and work off each other. Does this make sense?

Guys, stop fighting over me. I'm not worth it ... Jukai, it is true Ryuki and I have debated for years. And we're basically friends (believe it or not) we just get on each others nerves every now and then but it was always based on misunderstanding and not any real intended hostility of any kind. But Ryuki, Jukai is also right about over reacting, take the first quote from when you said I did it again... Look carefully at the second sentence... Specifically... - I wasn't trying to state it as fact, I was explaining my line of reasoning!Words like "indicate" are the same as saying "this seems to make sense". So I was definitely following your rules in that last post, but I still got hammered for voicing my opinion and just showing what I thought it all added up to. Perhaps this'll help clear that up? And I think this also clears up what the Bio-Boost Creature really is... And this one explains where I got how the Enzyme was created from something already in the Guyver... Both images were taken from parts of the Advocacy Translated Visual Data File Book scans that are available on this site. As for whether or not we can conclude that everything save the CM is organic, I think these links might help give some perspective... Molecular Self Assembly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_self-assembly Using inorganic minerals in organic systems is also quite common. For example, besides Iron we got... So our bones are an example of biology using inorganic elements to form complex structures and integrating them into our biology, since calcium is also vital to the proper function of our physiology. So I can't say we can conclusively conclude that everything save the CM is inorganic, really we can't yet rule out that the CM may be a composite of organic and inorganic material like it was suggest in the live action film (Course we can't use that for proof for the Manga, however the ability of the Navigation Spheres to reconfigure themselves does indicate the CM may be more than it appears).

Thanks Jukai, for being the voice of reason, and I have to say you are absolutely right on everything you said. I do have to work on avoiding confusion. If that was true then why didn't the Bio-Booster Clone Monster have it?

So you're assuming the energy to mass conversion would work at 100%? But wouldn't the noticeable energy discharge of their transformation be a sign of waste energy? The new Anime specifically seems to show a small glow for regular zoanoids and almost explosive discharge for hypers. Or are you suggesting the energy loss would be negligible and can be basically ignored except for Hyper Metabolism Zoaforms like the Libertus and Enzyme III's?

Sorry about the long posts, in all honesty I'm not trying to be off topic but actually trying to be on topic.Everything I have said has been an attempt to clarify the different aspects of my Bio-Boost theory on explaining the mass of zoanoids and the consequential concerns brought up by everyone on why the theory may not work. My posts have grown because everyone is bringing up stuff that they think disproves the theory and I've been replying to each point and giving additional information on the premise of the theory to clarify what my theory actually en-tales. And whether or not it accounts for the concerns raised about it. I'll try to break it up into different posts and not reply to everyone at the same time, as well as get to the point faster. Okay, let me explain why I was discussing that point and how it does relates to the topic at hand. Basically, I was trying to clarify the nature of the Guyver Organism, since it is the basis for my Bio-Boost Theory for the Zoaforms. So I was taking the official description that the Organism in its natural state is Parasitic and contrasting it with the fact it is also called the Bio-Booster Organism. The Clone Monster was primarily being used because it too was called Bio-Booster and it did demonstrate the properties that I think apply to the zoaform mass debate... For example it repeatedly altered its form and size from a Sho clone and a much larger monstrous form - Just like a Zoanoid. This was also to differentiate what properties I think belong to the organism and what I think are induced by the Unit, since it seemed we had different interpretations of what a Bio-Boost en-tales. Clarification was thus needed. But ignoring everything else I said, this suggests the ability to Bio-Boost is a natural function of the Organism, but since it is also described as being parasitic that the Bio-Boost natural function isn't as an alternate energy source, as otherwise the Organism wouldn't need to be parasitic. So it suggest that it is just a means by which the organism can easily alter its mass for the purpose of mass-shifting. Which would then directly allow us to apply it to the zoaform transformation and how they can alter their mass but similarly don't seem to be empowered by the process. The other point about the Gravity Control Orb was to indicate that the Creators understood how the Bio-Boost worked well enough to augment and improve upon it, since it is part of my conjecture that the Gravity Orb is not a natural part of the Organism and was put there by the Creators when they designed the Unit, along with the CM. The Bio-Boosted Clone Monster can be used to show this conclusion to be likely true since it didn't have a Gravity Control Orb, as well as lacking many of the Guyver's weapons. Indicating the CM induces the Organism to create these items and that it is not natural to the organism itself. Consequently the purpose such items play in the functions of the Unit should be considered to separate the natural Bio-Boost from what the Unit induces through items such as the Gravity Control Orb. Specifically, the described purpose of the Gravity Control Orb for siphoning energy further indicates its purpose is for a secondary power source which in turn indicates that the Bio-Boost isn't used as a continuous power source. Further supporting the idea the Bio-Boost natural function is just for mass shifting and that the Creators just adapted it to do more for the Guyver Unit. I think that helps show how it fits in with zoaform transformation, in showing that it is possible the Creators would have known about the mechanism (It is my belief this is why the Creators made it the basis for their standard equipment) and used it for something similar to solve their zoanoid transformation requirements. That basically the Bio-Boost works like my Siphon Pump analogy I gave Jukai earlier. Does that make sense now?

Uh, actually he is refering to a closed system. He's suggesting alternate means of storing energy that wouldn't noticably show as mass. Like how the Guyver Unit Stores itself in the Boost Dimension, so Sho can walk around without its mass effecting him even though it is only a dimension away from going back on him. He could have a strong argument for this with the Zoalords, since some like Waferdanos were transformed from massive size of a forest to relatively small humanoid size. But the problem with regular zoanoids is this would mean they would need to be recharged after every trasnformation and that hasn't been shown. It does for example specifically state normal zoanoids can sustain themselves on regular food. So unless the system is super efficient that it would only work that way if they got stuffed back into a Bio-Tube after every battle. But that only seems to apply to the Libertus and the Enzyme III's. Though virtual particles could be a different matter, here's a link for more detail.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle, if we combine them with the Zero Point Energy effect.

I think the Zoa-Crystals are probably your best example to argue that point YoungGuyver... Though I'm doubtful it applies to regular zoanoids, it is an alternative explaination. @SE - Well lets remember Agito had himself to learn from as well, not all his knowledge came from Chronos, like he somehow knew G1 would regenerate from just the CM for example and Chronos did not. As for further understanding Uh, wouldn't examples like the debreifing on the Gigantic be an example of them updating what they understood about the Guyver? Not to mention the many examples of when the Guyver kept on surprising them. Consider for example that every surprise also indicates the acquisition of a new understanding by acknowledging the surprise and what it entales. Every surprise then indicates they learned something new about the Guyver and they would have to have updated their understanding accordingly. Like Sho having half of his brain ripped out and the unit getting up by itself and still fighting I think definitely updated their understanding of the Guyver for example. Consider also that the scene you are referencing (begining of book 6) was before we got a proper idea of how powerful Zoalord are. And before X-Day the Zoalords were very secretive about their power, even after we have to yet to know what they are all capable of, so it's very likely these scientists had no idea of the true power of Creator technology and only had regular zoanoids for comparison. Which would severely limit what they would consider possible in a living being. But that's like comparing an internal combustion engine to a fusion reactor and saying the fusion reactor violates conservation of energy when it doesn't. We know the Mega Smasher only has enough energy to destroy a typical skyscaper, but that level of power is nowhere near violating conservation of energy unless you assume the Guyver is limited to just bio-chemical based energy generation. Only then would it make no sense as chemical energy is so inefficient that for example a pro body builder flexing his muscles at a competition can burn 5 pounds in calories in just a couple of minutes. Or take a Manga example with the Vamore's Bio-Lasers, chemically powered they don't produce anywhere near the power of a Mega Smasher. So a Chronos scientist seeing a weapon far more powerful than a Vamore Laser would of course be dumbfounded as to how it could have so much power in a biological weapon system. Physics though tells us that a straight conversion of matter into energy for example would yield 21.481 kilotons of TNT worth of energy for a single gram of matter, which could easily rival the power shown by the Mega Smashers. . . Basically just about 10 kilotons per smasher could explain all the destructive power shown in the Manga. So taken into context of what it is likely that Chronos scientist had to compare to I think it is clear that this scene is not proof that conservation of energy is violated in the Manga but rather just a scientist basically going "Wow" at what he saw. I believe someone asked about when Chronos has made assumptions about the Guyver?... To start, just consider would Sho have survived as long as he has if Chronos hadn't continuously underestimated him? Not to mention scenes like in the original OAV in which they assumed the host would have limited energy reserves because it is bonded to a human host and that version of the Zerebubuth battle sought to exhaust G1 in order to capture him (Just watch the scene of Genma explaining his plan to Guyot). True, not a Manga example but still from official source material. Even in the Manga it took quite awhile before they sent some serious threats against the Guyver like Hyper Zoanoid Team 5. While Panadyme, Zerebubuth and the Lost Numbers all seemed more like tests than serious attempts at capturing the Guyver. The Lost Numbers especially could have been backed up by an army of zoanoids since they tricked Sho to go to a remote area a long way from any potential witnesses but they had no backup. And I don't think anyone can argue that Khan didn't make a whole bunch of assumptions about Sho and his abilities, as he clearly assumed he could defeat even the Gigantic. @Jukai - The violation you mention only Applies to White Holes that don't involve Worm Holes. Those that do, do not violate the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. The disproving of White Holes was not that they were completely impossible but rather most likely impossible to ever occur naturally. Just like a stable wormhole that you could use for travel would also be very unlikely to ever be encountered. The Nature of a white hole would just be too unstable, but this doesn't rule out an artificially created White Hole under artificially regulated conditions. As for Chi, I think you're missing the point that this is suppose to be in context with the Guyver Universe. It doesn't really matter if it's real or not in our world, only that it may be on some level possible and most importantly that Takaya could believe in it and thus use it in his story. Since part of this debate is to figure out Takaya's actual intent. Besides, you are assuming it doesn't exist with no proof aside from your belief. It by no means you can't be wrong and that Chi does exist. Mind you I'm not saying you are wrong, just pointing out that we don't know for sure. There are plenty of examples in science of conventional wisdom either being proven wrong or having to be revised to account for new information. Just look up how much we had to change our theory on Electricity due to research into Super Conductivity, which totally blew away most of our previous conceptions on the nature of the electricity. And these debates do tend to go into the theoretical so it helps to keep an open mind. As to your question about the Bio-Boost, the answer is two fold... 1) The nature of energy siphon requires there be something for the energy to flow to. In this case the flow is provided by taking the energy and channeling it to create additional mass and the reverse when done. But if there is nowhere for the energy to go then there is no energy siphon. (Not to mention my previous point about efficiency and how much of the Bio-Boost energy is actually used) A good analogy would be a siphon pump, like using a tube to siphon gas out of your car into a container for example. Creating a pressure differential allows for a flow of the fluid but once the system is equalized then the flow stops. The same would be true of any system that reaches equalization. 2) Without a device like the Gravity Control Orb or Gigantic Power Amps, then it requires energy in order to create the conditions for the Bio-Boost. So just like fusion you need an ignition energy point to make the process possible. So for each gain there is also a loss and only if there is a net gain would there be a continuous benefit (Same reason we don't have fusion reactors even though we know fusion works), but without a CM most life isn't efficient enough and thus energy gets wasted and the zoaform eventually exhausts their power and don't have the energy needed to bio-boost anymore. *I don't believe there is any reason for them to mention the details on how the zoanoids transform any more than they needed to mention it for the Guyver, remember it's been about 26 books so far and we're still learning stuff about the Guyver. Even with the Gigantic they thought had a energy limit and then it went Exceed on them to prove them wrong. Also consider it is entirely possible they don't understand how the zoaform process allows them to gain mass, they could easily attribute it to something else. Especially if it seems to only apply to allowing them to change their mass. For example they could attribute it to the Higgs Field and not really understand where the energy is coming from. And Barcus already admitted he has some serious doubts about their knowledge on the Guyver when he discussed the artificial unit they created. Btw, Barcus didn't exactly create the Enzyme acid from scratch. He took an enzyme that the organism naturally uses to break down the Bio-Armor and just mass produced it to overwhelm the armor, which is more of copying than creating. Though you could easily replace my Bio-Boost idea with Zero-Point Energy, I just prefer the Bio-Boost Theory since it uses ideas already present in the story versus introducing ideas they haven't used or mentioned by Takaya. Otherwise the reasons I mentioned for believing the Bio-Boost idea can also be easily applied to a Zero Point Energy explanation. Okay, fair point. So being more specific... the scene was from the beginning of Book 6. Back when we were still learning what a Guyver was capable of and there was still things yet to be discovered.In the next two books for example we are finally shown the 12 Zoalords and given some idea how powerful they are, something we only got the barest hints of with Barcus before. Taking into consideration the power of a Zoalord, the guy who commented doesn't seem to realize just how powerful Creator technology is. Archanfel destroying a planet size asteroid for example would definitely rate up there as the far more impressive feats, making the Mega Smashers seem like static electricity in comparison. The point about Barcus doubts on their knowledge on the Unit technology also applies to show that even over a year later there are things about the Guyver technology they aren't sure on, but Book 6 happened a good bit before X-Day and so we can safely say they knew even less then. The artificial Unit for example may have existed but they ceased experimenting with it with the Failure of G2. True, okay lets consider then what the Manga does show. . . There was the first instance when Tetsuro tried to talk to it, it didn't attack until it got closer to him and then suddenly transformed and was about to attack him. That doesn't seem to suggest to me a defense mechanism but rather a predator reaction. It was alone with Tetsuro and had plenty of time to try to escape but instead went towards Tetsuro, who made no threatening gestures as he was trying to figure out what was wrong with his friend and didn't realize it wasn't Sho, and then suddently the Creature transformed and decided to attack. Sho only showed up because he was outside and heard Tetsuro Scream. Takaya even drew saliva dripping from its mouth (artistic coincidence or intent?)... And Teturo was the first student it encountered when it climbed into the school through the window. It Also didn't run away until Sho transformed and it got a look at the CM. Then when Mizuki encountered it, Tetsuro and G1 may have been down the hall but the panel shows it was looking down at Mizuki just before it transformed, further suggesting it was acting predatorily. Then it was confronted by both G3 and G1, and it reverted into the Sho form. Which can be can be seen as a switch from predator instinct to escape. Indicating the Beast form was it in hunting mode. Only when connered did it again transform into its monster form, again associating that form with a predatory action, and tried to devour G1, avoiding the CM by attacking from behind, and was succeeding up to the point it came into contact with the CM and then got assimulated instead. G3 even was preparing to Mega Smash G1 if the Clone Monster won. So in my opinion it was hunting. Opinion aside... What we do know though is the Organism is described as a Parasitic Organism that will devour its host if the CM control is ever lost, but it is also called the Bio-Booster Organism. Even the Clone Monster was still called Bio-Booster. This suggest a dualality in the nature of the Guyver Organism, on one side it has the instincts and desire to devour while on the other side it has the natural ability to Bio-Boost and alter its mass. Unless these two traits are in conflict then it suggests the Bio-Boost is not a source of energy persay but a method of controlling mass to help the organism shape shift. So it still needs to eat. It after all makes sense that such a property would be seen as very useful by the Creators as properly controlled it would mean they could make the organism create anything they needed. The Creation of the Gravity Control Orb, thus shows the Creators knew how this process worked well enough to augment the organism's natural ability with a continuous siphon, eliminating the need to eat. Not to mention the fact they use the Boost Dimension to store the unit as well as for travel as shown by the Gigantic and Relics, also helps demonstrate that they knew how the organism can access the Boost Dimension. Well we may not know where the Creators got the Guyver Organism from but that is I think a different thing from saying the Creators didn't know how the organism worked. Consider, we do know for example that they considered the Units their standard equipment. Would you use something you had no idea how it worked, especially something based on a parasitic organism that would devour you if not for the CM as standard equipment? The Creators did say they knew it would Bio-Boost a human, they were just surprised by how much. So they knew the armor Bio-Boosts its host... Wouldn't you call that indication the Creators had a good idea how the Guyver worked? Also, assuming they never left the planet once they arrived that the Guyver Unit was standard equipment before they came to the Earth. So they had longer to figure out how it worked versus the entire experiment on Earth. I would also consider the CM as proof they understood the organism as otherwise how could they create and program the CM to control the organism so well and make it into a Bio-Boosting armor? Doesn't that suggest an underlying understanding of how the organism worked as they would need to know that to take advantage of its properties? Not to mention the already mentioned technology for using the Boost Dimension for both storage and travel. Uh, sorry but to me that's like saying you put a UPS into your power grid just for efficiency when it's purpose is to provide an alternative power source because the main power is either not continuous (like a house running on solar energy) or unrealiable (such as from black outs or brown outs). If the main power was working all the time then you wouldn't need a secondary power system. You'll only need a power regulator but the Gravity Control Orb isn't a power regulator, its a secondary power source. Though providing a secondary power source does potentially make the system more efficient under cetain conditions but the only real reason to need a secondary power system is because you for one reason or another can't rely on the main power source. Which is the point I was trying to get across! The existence of a secondary power source indicates the primary Bio-Boost isn't either not a continuous or reliable source of energy. I like to be clear as possible and reply to any and all questions or arguments.It basically just adds up, especially if I see I was misunderstood and need to find another way to explain myself. I actually try to keep it short but rarely always succeed as I'm also trying to avoid confusion on what I'm stating and try to provide examples to back up what I say. Needless to say balance isn't always easy to achieve.

Aside from the fact Viz translations have been in dispute for over a decade, I think it should be obvious to remember that was before they knew the Guyver Siphoned energy from the Boost Dimension. Chronos was going under the erroneous assumption that the Guyver's power came from the host. But really the host is infused with energy, which is why they totally underestimated the Guyver. They were also exaggerating the power of the Mega Smashers, which they had no idea how it worked back then. @Jukai - White Holes don't violate Thermodynamics, the theory was that they are like wormholes linking to black holes. The problem with them was that both the black hole and white hole had to be identical and any change would cause a collapse, which is why we ultimately ruled them out as too unstable to actually exist but they are still a possibility when dealing with wormhole methods of power generation. Chi - hasn't been disproved and some cultures, like Japan's, consider it real. Takaya is Japanese so this has to be taken into account when considering what he may be using in the Manga. As to what an organism could use to breach dimensions, bio-energy fields! Really, if the brain can set up a quantum field to allow it to function like a quantum computer then it isn't a stretch to include dimensional manipulation. It, just like fusion, would require a sufficient input energy to then get the resulting output energy. On a quantum scale many things are possible, I think your assuming this has to happen on the Macro scale when it really has to happen inside the very molecules of the body. M-Theory has already suggested that on certain levels the Electromagnetic Force is interchangeable with Gravity, which would also explain the Gigantic's Barrier shield btw, since it is powered by Gravity but produces an EM field. @Ryuki - It should be remembered that the Bio-Boosted Organism was also nowhere near the equal of a Guyver either. It had none of the Guyver Weapons and if anything only demonstrated Guyver level strength when it pinned G1's arms. Also the organism still demonstrated the need to hunt, indicating it doesn't use the Bio-Boost continuously and may still have needed to eat. The Creators had access to the organism for a very long time, most likely longer than they had been on Earth if they never left since they landed. So they would of course know how the organism accomplished the Bio-Boost. The Unit does enhance the effect with the Gravity Control Orb continuous siphoning, but that also suggests the Organism could not do so on its own as otherwise why create a device to perform that function? I think the point that the Bio-Boost effect only lasts for a single second should not be overlooked. And my Diving Analogy clearly indicated that I did not think the same amount of energy could be drawn by each zoaform. So I'm confused as to why it is being suggested otherwise? As I see it, if a Gregole can only assimilate a fraction of the energy provided by a Bio-Boost then it is only going to demonstrate a fraction of that power. Efficiency being the key, it doesn't matter how much energy the Bio-Boost provides if you only absorb a fraction of that energy. And the whole point of pointing out the energy requirements of increasing mass was because we do not see zoanoids eating or absorbing mass to transform. We all know eating would solve the problem but the point of the theory is to explain how it happens without eating, since we don't see the Zoanoids eating or otherwise assimilating matter. So the numbers represent just how much raw energy it takes to equal a given amount of mass and to show it is impossible for normal energy storage methods to provide this level of energy. Also it should be remembered, just to make the point clear, Matter is Energy, just in a solid form. For technology that can manipulate dimensions it becomes possible to create matter from energy as well as matter into energy. As to why they can't draw continuously, I thought I made that part of my theory clear when I said the natural barriers between dimensions would make such a dimensional coupling temporary. Even the Guyver requires the Gravity Control Orb and the Power Amps for a continuous energy siphon. To me that seems clear that the Bio-Boost is not a continuous energy source if the Guyver requires devices to augment its ability to draw energy from the Boost Dimension, or am I crazy?

They aren't Guyvers, thus they can't get a continuous flow of energy. The energy flow is only during transformation and practically all of that goes into giving them the extra mass. They will still have to provide energy to trigger the process and to fight. To make this clear to increase mass as much as zoanoids do you would need the equivalent of a series of a nuclear bombs going off every second and having every erg of energy they released turned into mass. The energy requirements are too incredible to explain without an external source. For example, let's say a Gregole can increase it's mass by 45 kg, this equals 966.63 megatons of TNT worth of energy or just short of a Giga Ton. To compare I calculated the Guyver Mega Smasher to emit about 10 kilo tons of TNT worth of energy, meaning to transform a standard zoanoid would take about 10,000 Mega Smashers worth of energy. While Derzerb is about 250 pounds heavier than his human form, translating to 2.4359e+3 megatons of TNT worth of energy. But these energy estimates are just for the increased mass alone, additional energy still is required for the transformation of human into zoaform. Now you may disagree with the source I've suggest but they still need an external energy explaination... Technically, in terms of absolutes of measuring every single electron, yes even though the amount of energy involved is too small to properly measure and thus its effect is extremely minute. It'll just take a lot of energy to noticeably increase its mass. But a normal Spring can never store enough energy to noticeable effect its mass. This also goes with what YoungGuyver pointed out, if Chronos was charging their zoanoids they would need incredibly powerful power generators to provide enough energy for all their zoanoids. But we don't see this anywhere. So I disagree that the Libertus are somehow an exception, they just draw more from their life energy but that comes at the price of shortening their life. But other beings like Zoalords can live practically forever and demonstrate even more incredible energy levels. So when done properly the Bio-Boost theory explains everything, allowing zoanoids to sustain themselves via normal food but still have the incredible energy needed to transform in an instant. The Libertus and the Enzyme III's just sacrifice some of their life energy for additional power but at an extreme cost. For an Analogy, it's like putting nitro in you car engine. It provides a big boost in engine power but uses up the gas faster and shortens the life of the engine. But it doesn't mean you get more milelage from the boost or that you are using an alternate fuel, you're just enhancing what you got and using it up faster for a boost.

Yes, though their capacity had its limits. One Enzyme for example lost an Arm and never regenerated it, leaving only the chest area to seem to constantly regenerate but most of that could have been just advance wound handling. The Libertus at least showed they needed to get energy from Griselda before they rapidly regenerated. Their shortened life span and need to be placed in Bio-Tubes to stabilize them would indicate they use up a lot of energy and they definitely have limits. So they don't violate conservation of energy, though if my theory is correct it means they assimulate a lot of the energy from the transformation and waste little to none of it. The regulation I think can be attributed to how efficiently they can deal with the energy. Like my Diving Analogy, the one who waste a lot of the energy uses very little of it while those that don't waste the energy use most of it. So regular zoanoids only draw enough for transformation and nothing more, while the more powerful zoaforms are more efficient and thus assimulate more of that energy into their battle form. The reason the power is limited in my theory is because the Bio-Boost only last for like a single second, at least without a Gravity Contol Orb or Power Amps to provide a continuous siphon. Something like Khan was probably an upper limit, wasn't his brain like around half a ton? While something like Waferdanos would have even more since he compressed existing mass, so it was more of it returning to its natural state versus drawing it from the Boost Dimension. There are plenty to choose from, I only prefer the Bio-Boost theory because it is already provided in the story. Other outside options include... 1) Zero Point Energy - Like the ZPM's on Stargate. 2) Gravitational - Drawing power from the gravitational fields of both the Earth and the Sun. 3) EMS - Drawing Energy from the Electromagnetic field and/or from something like the Earth's EM field. 4) Matter Conversion - Drawing from the Atmosphere for the energy/matter needed. Kinda like the Ang Lee Incredible Hulk Movie. 5) Neutrinos - Converting this almost massless partical could yield the required power since literally billions of these particles pass through us every day. 6) A White Hole - Exact opposite to a black hole, probably impossible but is an alternative. 7) Chi - Universal life force if it exists could be tapped to the needed energy. And then there is the other souces but most of them delve into higher dimensions are complex multi-dimensional dimensional physics.

Personally, I believe the unit already places the host into peak potential when it goes on the host. Which would explain why Sho seems to get the most height increase out of the three known hosts. But the unit wasn't designed as a weapon, the CM itself is artificial creation of the Creators, and I doubt the Creators experimented on themselves. So that means it is unlikely that the CM would consider bio-energy potential. However it may be programmed with a cut off for how long to allow the host to age, as extending ones life does make sense.

Hmm, not really, no... When People or animals regenerate the immediate effect is just to move cells and basic bodily Resources around to stabilize the wound, such as with blood clotting, etc. This is why we have to be concerned about blood loss, etc. Since we can't immediately replace it. The body then has to eat in order to gain the mass needed to replace the lost mass from the wound. This follows the LAW of Conservation of Energy, in that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Only it's form can be changed and thus it is impossible to mass shift without an exchange of energy/matter. . . At least in the real world and that is what I'm comparing to. Course there are different ways of absorbing energy than just eating, like plants can absorb neutrients from the dirt and atmosphere and use solar energy to fuel the process needed to convert those neutrients into elements they can use. Basically summing up photosynthesis... Well we do have the example of the T-Rex, which the Creators compared to an enhanced Zoanoid. Since it was said to have the power of a whole squad of regular Zoanoids.To me that suggest that in modern terms that would have been equivalent to a Hyper Zoanoid, at least in physical strength. And it is true we never have seen the full range of zoaforms the Creators made, even modern zoanoids are often shown by just the basic models when Takaya shows large groups of them. So that could be a good point... Well technically we can say they all had mass shifting ability, since a zoanoid seems to need to mass shift in order to transform into their battle forms. And you are right that it makes sense to make an adaptable fighter but that's assuming the Creators wanted adaptability beyond the basic soldier yet? After all the fact they were going to another planet to continue the experiment indicates they weren't done experimenting yet. Not to mention Aptom is a good example of why not to make a zoaform too adaptable. The Creators were all about control after all, so we could argue that either way. Well we didn't think cells could use quantum mechanics either before we figured out that the human brain seems to operate like a quantum computer. Remember, we may be just flesh and bone but cells do produce energy fields as well. We all have bio-electric auras for example. Is it really far fetched to believe an organism could be designed to use that energy to do something amazing? It's not like we can't find examples of life using elements to do things that flesh and bone alone can't do. Like migrating animals use Earth's magnetic field in order to navigate, while other animals like sharks can see electrical impulses of muscle activity in order to track their prey in virtual darkness. The point being life can interact with energy fields and use them for survival. True, no life on earth can tap into higher dimensions but my theory isn't that they developed this on Earth but that the Creators learned it from the Guyver Organism and used how the Guyver Organism does it to apply it to their zoanoids. P.S.> My theory isn't that this process is unlimited, which is why I used the lung analogy. The exact potential I think varies on the class of zoanoid, with Zoalord's having the greatest potential.

Funny that you think that considering that they thought the same about nuclear energy. Especially with the atomic bomb they worried that it could ignite the atmosphere and destroy the whole world for example. Though I suppose that means it is only natural to think the worse of any developing technology, especially if its first application is as a weapon. However there are many ways we could be destroyed, even if it worked exactly as we would want it to... Like for example imagine a world with no want for energy, everything would be easy and then the economy will collapse.

This has been asked before but unfortunately there really isn't an answer yet. Theories range from the Guyver Unit constantly regenerating the host to the unit altering the host in such a way that they no longer age. While others have debated what would happen if the host eventually died, which ended up suggesting the unit would prevent aging as part of preserving itself by keeping the host alive and healthy. The idea that the unit may simply restore the host to the state they were in when they first bonded has also been thrown around, but it all is just speculation since neither of the Guyvers in the Manga have lived long enough to draw any conclusions yet. There are many possibilities though so feel free to speculate. I personally think the unit just prevents degeneration and so the host is free to grow up but won't grow old.

Doubtful, he was seen still covered in bandages and was seen moments before the BK was shown elsewhere. Though some have theorized they may be allies of some sort, explaining how he has survived or perhaps he found BK in the mountain after Archanfel dropped him from the Relic. We really have no idea yet, though we now know BK calls himself Apollyon (which literally translates to the Destroyer) and says he will bring about the end to everything.

Yes, Tony's original prototype could produce 3 giga joules of energy per second. His 2nd perfected version could produce 4 times that at 12 GJ. And yes, size does matter to the dimensional coupler, which is basically an enhanced micro-fusion reactor. Basically it takes a fusion reaction and manipulates the plasma with a transdimensional quantum field that alters how much energy is converted from matter to a level rivaling an anti-matter/matter reactor, just without the danger of using anti-matter. It's the reason why the Grakkens could have used it to make the sun go nova, back in Solar Crisis with the Grakken mothership, CG and the Nova Guyvers. The Hyper Space Link is also based on scientific principle that higher dimensions are naturally a higher energy state and thus interfacing such a state with our lower energy state takes advantage of entropy to provide a flow of energy. The Guyver itself is powered by this, they just call it the Bio-Boost and is limited to just the moment of activation with a limited continuous siphon from the Gravity Control Orb. So we just took that idea and made it into a system that provides the Bio-Boost continuously, complete with a natural control system of using the host to regulate the flow of energy to prevent overload. Course we don't have the ability to manipulate dimensions, we can't even manipulat regular space/time yet. So it might as well be just magic even if it is based on actual scientific theories of higher dimensions.

BK is the nickname given to the present mysterious character that has appeared in the Manga at the end of the Battle between DragonLord Khan and the Gigantic Exceed, basically he goes around in a full body armor that looks like something a Zoalord might wear. Spoiler Alert... So far the BK has recovered Khan's Zoacrystal, right after Aptom killed Khan. And now has gone to the Ark, over 2 months later, demonstrating the ability to teleport and to control Zoanoids like a Zoalord would. Even Carleon, another of the 12, was humbled by this guy's aura. Meaning he is either a Zoalord or something with the mental power to Match or even rival Archanfel. Assumptions range from Zoalord to a Creator, though I think it possible to be Agito if he had absorbed the knowledge of the Creators through the Navigation Spheres he had recoved at that end of book 25.

Who wants to discuss some of the technology used in the stories and whether they are realistic or not? Like the Dimensional Coupler... Does anyone know how it is suppose to work and whether it is based on science or just a magic device made for the story?

I think that is because the effect can only be tapped during transformation, in a way we can think of it like a dimensional version of Bio-Energy Potential. Essentially shifting mass/energy back and forth between normal space and the boost dimension with just a little effort to trigger the process. Or for another analogy, I would liken it to breathing. Taking energy/air in and then releasing it back to the source when you're done. This could also explain why some turn back into human form to recover some of the energy used in the transformation. The process then presumably takes energy to trigger, similar to how it it takes energy to draw in a breath of air versus the energy we gain from the oxygen in that air. Zoanoids are just not efficient enough to gain that much from the process versus a Guyver. Like comparing someone with an air tank with someone with a rebreather gear, the one with the rebreather can last hours and use every bit of air while the person with the regular tank can last maybe 30 minutes and waste most of the air. Even with both breathing air there is a big difference in efficiency and how much of it they actually use... Hope that's a good analogy to make the idea easy to understand. And yes I think it's integrated to the very makeup of the zoanoid's cellular structure, like the mitochondria, etc. It could be then that they can't replicate the process artificially outside the actual zoaform technology. Because even if I'm right it takes energy to bridge the gap between normal space and the Boost Dimension. And the dimensional coupling would be inheritanly unstable as the dimensional barriers return to normal and the bridge is collapsed. The basic limitating factor being the exchange of energy only basically works with a mass change, thus can't be used for a power system without constantly changing mass and even that should have limits. After all even the Guyver seems to draw most of its energy only during the initial activation period and then relies on the Gravity Control Orb for a continuous trickle of energy. Otherwise weapons like the Mega Smasher would recharge far quicker. However Chronos zoaform technology is not the equal to the Creator's, otherwise they would have made each of the Zoalord's as powerful as Archanfel. Well, at least that is what I think they would do if they had the technology and we do know everything they know they gained from studying Creator technology. So we know at least that their knowledge is second hand to the Creator's. The Guyver itself is still superior technology since it can siphon energy continuously with the gravity control orb, as well as the fact Guyvers are more dense for their size than zoanoids. Probably because of the CM regulation makes them more efficient and able to handle more energy. But I think it works well and Takaya did lay the ground work for it by introducing the idea with the Guyver and the fact it was standard equipment for the Creator's long before they ever zoaformed humans. So uses Takaya's own ideas to explain the process instead of relying on creating outside ideas. . .

Sure, sounds good Ryuki... True, even the Bio-Boost explaination calls upon the use of theoretical science, such as dimensional interactions, etc that we're a long way off from fully understanding. But there are many things Takaya doesn't fully explain, which is why we debate and theorize so much but specifically my theory is that they can only tap it during transformation. Something that falls into fine details of the process, which there is much Takaya hasn't fully explained. Chronos may not even be fully aware of it since they just copied the technology from the Creators and are still a long way from mastering it, otherwise each of the Zoalord's would each be Archanfel's equal but they aren't and thus that means Chronos technology is still behind the Creator's. It's also something they can't really take advantage of since it only would work during transformation. Also my theory doesn't rule out that it may take some energy to trigger the process, which is why I described it as a catalyst and not an actual power source. I mainly like the theory because it works with something Takaya already invented for the series and explains all the inconsistencies I can think of relating to it. It even explains why Aptom's victims may transform as it would provide him more energy as he absorbs them and he has stated he gains energy as he absorbs his victims. But like I said it's only a theory...

Well from the data files we know many zoaforms can weigh a couple hundred pounts. Derzerb for example weighs 354 kg (~780.44 Pounds or nearly 56 Stones), at a height of 240 cm (~7 Foot and 10.5 Inches Tall) His human form is much shorter and shorter framed in comparison, meaning he would have to be super dense to have the same mass as his battle form. But a human who weighs as much as Derzerb does in his battle form would show it practically with every step. Or just getting in and out of a car would cause a noticeable shift in the suspension, neither of which was ever shown. The original Enzyme weighed 324 kg (~714.3 or about 51 Stones), at a height of 257 cm (~8 Foot and 5 Inches Tall). If he had the same mass in his much smaller human form then I think it should have been noticeable. . . Like in the Anime Enzyme was shown having thunderous steps as he walked but made no such effect while he was still in his human form. Regular Zoanoids on the other hand may only be a little heavier than normal humans, like Gregole weighs 150 kg (~330.7 Pounds or ~23.5 Stones) and is 235 cm (7 Foot and 8.52 Inches) tall. But that mass contained in a human size body would still be excessive. The biggest problem with this is that during pre X-Day zoanoids had to blend in with normal People and many didn't even know they were zoanoids, such as that village of civilians that Chronos used against the Guyvers. Now not everyone may not be that concerned with their weight but weighing about twice the weight you should weigh would I think be noticeable by most people, not to mention the effect on your furniture, etc. There is also other factors like the Zoanoid weapons also take up mass and need energy to be generated, like Gaster's Bio-Missiles or even Vamore's Lasers, which are chemically fueled. Not to mention the transformation itself would require a fairly massive amount of energy to facilitate such a rapid and dramatic change. So that's why I think, when taking such factors into consideration along with others that relate, that we can only conclude the zoanoids are able to increase their mass. I thus theorize that the Creators, having already had access to the Guyver Units knew how the Bio-Boost system works and adapted it for the zoaforming process. It for example goes along with the apparent fact the Guyver also increases mass, Sho as G1 for example weighs 261 kg (~575.5 Pounds or 41.1 Stones) and only increases height to 174 cm (5 Foot and 8.5 Inches). Making him incredibly dense for his size. Sho himself of course doesn't weigh anywhere near that much and even the dormant unit mass shouldn't come anywhere near adding enough mass, since Sho was able to easily lift it. And the Guyver Unit seems to expand once it goes onto the host, which makes sense considering the VDF indicates the unit instantly increases both bone and muscle growth as part of the transformation. But this is part of the Bio-Boost process. . . During the Clone Monster event, where G1's severed forearm fully merged with the Guyver Organism and became a Bio-Boosted Clone monster version of Sho. But despite not having access to either the Control Metal or the Gravitational Orb, the device also responsible for siphoning energy from the Boost Dimension to help power the Guyver, the Creature was still able to transform back and forth between a form similar to Sho's and a zoanoid like monster form... We also know the organism is specially called the Bio-Boosted Organism, which further suggests it naturally has the ability to tap into the Boost-Dimension for energy. All of which adds up I think to a likely answer to the apparent zoanoid inconsistencies. Course this is just my theory but I think it fits and would explain the mass inconsistency of zoanoids. If we just assume the Creators adapted the mechanism the Guyver Organism uses into the Zoaform transformation system. The Zoalord's also bring this up, like Waferdanos natural state was a forest but the zoacrystal allowed him to compress his form into a single mobile humanoid shape. So this would also explain how that could be possible as well as explain how the Zoa-crystals could contain so much energy.