How did Agito know...

[Masamune]

...that the Guyver unit can regenerate the host at a cellular level? Why take such a bold gamble, when if it had gone wrong he was effectively handing the unit to Kronos on a silver plate and destroying a valuable ally in the process?

[Salkafar]

Well, did he really have that many options? Guyver I really wasn't his ally per se at that time, he was not trusted as Agito... and he did not know whether even the two of them could defeat Enzyme. Chronos was creating an army of Enzymes at the time, too. And he was on a clock: he wasn't the one doing the planning. Much of what he did was reacting, and even he couldn't be everywhere at once...

[Matt Bellamy]

He didn't think of Sho as an ally. At all. For the longest time. It was only recently in the Manga that he realized how bad he had gotten.

 

He used Sho as a test bed for all the Guyvers abilities. Letting him take all the damage, and get in all the danger.

 

With Agito's plans, if the Unit had only reformed itself as a unit, he probably put himself in a place where he could reacquire the unit if that were the case. Turns out, it reforms the host too. So he gained some temporary help, until he too betrays them later.

[H222G981]

...that the Guyver unit can regenerate the host at a cellular level? Why take such a bold gamble, when if it had gone wrong he was effectively handing the unit to Kronos on a silver plate and destroying a valuable ally in the process?

 

Sho was only a pawn to Agito. He knew because of the data based on Guyver 2 that Cronos scientists had collected.

 

It probably didn't matter whether Cronos, or Richard in that case had the unit or not. They now have the technology to clone or make Guyver units. But they haven't managed to perfect the technology of it as Valcuria or Guyver 2 F can't keep it engaged for long periods of time. 

[Masamune]

My memory of this part of the manga is fuzzy, I know there's the whole side-plot with the Biobooster monster clone. In the OVA continuity, Agito deliberately has Sho killed by Enzyme I in order for the both of them to take down Chronos from the inside, which brings me back to my original point: How did he know this would work? The scientists at Chronos obviously weren't aware that the Control Metal reforms the host, otherwise they would've frozen it. Where is Agito getting his information from?

I might add that I use 'ally' in the loosest sense. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and Agito didn't have many friends in his plot to overthrow Chronos. I don't think he could afford to sacrifice one for the greater good unless he was confident he could succeed, but I fail to see how this was a calculated risk.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Masamune

[Salkafar]

I don't think he knew, I think he just didn't have the choice but to take the gamble.

[Masamune]

I don't think he knew, I think he just didn't have the choice but to take the gamble.

 

I don't know, there must have been better options than killing Sho and handing the Control Metal to Chronos.

 

Case in point, they're both able to infiltrate Relic's Point to rescue Sho's dad. Agito could've used a similar strategy to get Sho inside Chronos Japan's HQ.

[H222G981]

I don't think he knew, I think he just didn't have the choice but to take the gamble.

I don't know, there must have been better options than killing Sho and handing the Control Metal to Chronos.

Case in point, they're both able to infiltrate Relic's Point to rescue Sho's dad. Agito could've used a similar strategy to get Sho inside Chronos Japan's HQ.

I'm sure there were better options. But Sho was and still is an expendable asset to Agito.

Agito doesn't give a damn about Sho, what so ever. When he knew Cronos was on to Sho, he used him as a smoke screen.

While Cronos was after Sho, Agito used every opportunity to go about his agenda while Richard and Barcas used their resources to attack Sho.

Than, Agito's plans reach a brick wall. Cronos was going to find out that he was a Guyver when they examined him, that and Richard and Barcas already knew. So this pushed him to value Sho in other ways.

But when the Gigantic came into the picture. Agito realized, Sho was expendable once again. Agito than tries to kill Guyver 1, because Agito's expendable asset,Sho realizes that fighting along side with Agito hasn't exactly been good for his health.

So there's that.

Agito just see's Sho as a tool, a pawn. So what ever he can get out of him, whether the plan is good or bad and causes Sho to die....well....Agito could care less.

He has the Dark Gigantic, Shizu and the Libertus, and the Zeus Thunderbolt. He didn't think he needed Guyver 1, until Sho ascended it it Gigantic Red Exceed.

As for Relic's Point, well they didn't have much of a point there but to work together. Agito was out of options.

The point is. Agito could care less whether Sho's control medal falls into the hands of Cronos. A basic Guyver couldn't take down a Agito while he's in the Dark Gigantic. It'd be no challenge and he could destroy it easily just like Sho punched out Guyver 2.

Its not a  threat to him. An experienced Guyver would have to learn how to summon a Gigantic. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Jupiter Knight

[Salkafar]

I don't think he knew, I think he just didn't have the choice but to take the gamble.

 

I don't know, there must have been better options than killing Sho and handing the Control Metal to Chronos.

 

Case in point, they're both able to infiltrate Relic's Point to rescue Sho's dad. Agito could've used a similar strategy to get Sho inside Chronos Japan's HQ.

 

Yes, but again: he was on a clock. Chronos was moving, and moving fast, and he didn't know his capabilities nearly as well as he does now. I mean, this was, what, days? Weeks after he became a Guyver? He couldn't have spent much time bioboosted. Transforming is a pretty explosive process, and he must have assumed that Chronos was keeping a look-out in the area for just that. Plus he was the son of the area manager! He couldn't very well sneak out, bio-boost and work out for a bit in the back yard.

And would he have gotten Sho to trust him? Without revealing who he really was? "We must sneak into Chronos Headquarters together, Guyver One." Sho might have gone for it, but maybe not. Better not to give him the option.

 

Say that it would have failed, and Chronos had obtained the control medal. They still did not possess bio-booster organism samples, unless they got some from Guyver-2 (actually I guess they must have, otherwise they could not have created Guyver 2-F's unit - but that success was years away), and Agito did not know about Guyot's plan either. In any event, it would have bought him time. In a pinch, he could have attempted to destroy Chronos Japan from within in under an hour. After all, he was surprised that Guyot was able to resist him in human form... and there were no Zoanoids besides Enzyme who could defeat him.

 

As said, Guyver-1 was expendable... indeed, a possible threat, as he did turn out to be. After Chronos Japan was destroyed, he went out of his way to get Sho as an ally. But not before. So he was really very much playing chess.

He must have felt really shocked when the pawn upgraded so fast.

[Larz Zahn]

Hey all,

I'm not sure Agito knew about the regenerative properties of that extent. He only suspected in the 2005 series.

Its feasible he was just watching the fight to discover the abilities if the enzyme 1, once again using Sho as cannon fodder to get what he wants.

I don't believe that the entire fight was an elaborate ploy to smuggle Sho in the building.

I honestly think he was making the best of the hand he was dealt.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Larz Zahn

[Masamune]

Just necroing this thread, as I was re-watching the series today.

When Sho is killed by Enzyme-1, Agito says "All the pieces are in place" which suggests that he *planned* for Sho to get killed.

Agito didn't know for certain that the Control Medal regenerates the host. There was nothing to base this theory on. 

If the plan was to pull off an inside job with Guyver I's help, I'm sure there were less extreme methods than allowing his only pawn to get killed and handing a control medal to the sworn enemy.

Also, someone mentioned before that Enzyme 1s were about to enter mass-production. Does someone have a source for this? I don't recall this in the manga.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Masamune

[Salkafar]

Agito is shown destroying tanks with Enzyme-1's in them, remarking that 'these could have been troublesome'.

[Masamune]

On 8/7/2023 at 4:59 PM, Salkafar said:

Agito is shown destroying tanks with Enzyme-1's in them, remarking that 'these could have been troublesome'.

Thank you for that. I must have missed it

Nonetheless, Agito's "plan" makes little tactical sense without the benefit of hindsight.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Masamune

[Larz Zahn]

Oh boy! A reason to watch all the guyver shows again! 

 

 

I think masamune may be correct for the 12 ep ova. Agito knew alot before before sho did. He could set up sho to get killed Nd then respawn in the base. 

 

But in the Manga, when enzyme 1 killed sho, wasn't agito being escorted back to base and was shown to be shocked when he picked up the signal of shos death?

 

 

But let's get back to the original question. How did agito know?

 

I was thinking this over and it occurred to me he may not of had access to the guyver data.

He was the son of the branch manager, sure, but he was never put in that position. At best he was made an aid to guyot. 

 

Was he aware of the hypers that had came with guyot? Their abilities? My impression of agito in chronos was the spokesperson for guyot to people of lower position. He was groomed to take over the Japan branch, but would that of been when genzo was in charge. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, I could be getting the different media mixed up in my head, but when he was given operational planning of the attack on the school, he had to request the data on team 5.

[Masamune]

On 11/21/2023 at 8:31 PM, Larz Zahn said:

But in the Manga, when enzyme 1 killed sho, wasn't agito being escorted back to base and was shown to be shocked when he picked up the signal of shos death?

Nope, Agito was watching the fight and remarked that Sho's death was part of his preparations:

 

Just because Agito's plan worked in service of the narrative, doesn't mean that it makes sense internally. You've got a potential ally in Sho/Guyver I, who you have now aided and abetted in the death of, and gifted the control metal to your sworn enemies. If the plan was just for Sho to infiltrate Chronos Japan, I'm sure there were less riskier gambits than this.