God?

[Guest Nataku418]

nataku, that's incredible!

thanks very much for that snippet of information.

I found that really interesting.

so lucifer means 'light bringer'?

it really shows how much of the world is blanketed in ignorance...

Yes, it's sad how the world is ignorant about things. Did you know that Satan means "to be hostile" or "to accuse"? Satan originally was apart of God's court, were his role was "the Accuser". He was a like a prosecutor for God. He sought out for the sins of man with the permission of God. He tested mankind, he wasn?t evil. Then Western influence of the story made it out that Satan became a fallen angel and went against God, and became the allegory of evil, the Devil. It?s a whole different story for God to give permission for Satan to be almost cruel and to test mankind than for him to be against God, Good versus Evil.

The Bible went through so many changes. How can you believe in something that has been turn into so many different things and interpretations. Man has created these stories for mankind to follow. To teach us what to do, how to live, and how things became. The stories themselves change over time, with the new ideals of man. There might be a higher power, People would like to think so. But man created God in his own image. At least that is my option and I will respect yours.

[*Jess♥]

no, I really like your opinion!

at least... in a story sense.

I like the way it says about the bible changing.. because I do believe that the bible would have changed.

the parts that you say have changed.. and the original versions..

I don't know how you couod find that out at all... but it feels more honest.

beoss, I agree with what you say.

I also believe that it is not possible for nature to be accidental.

evolution is too clever.

[Guest Nataku418]

no, I really like your opinion!

at least... in a story sense.

I like the way it says about the bible changing.. because I do believe that the bible would have changed.

the parts that you say have changed.. and the original versions..

I don't know how you couod find that out at all... but it feels more honest.

Reading about original truth and meaning about biblical and mythological things is a little hobby of mine you could say. Concepts, interpretations, and views of one story change and become something else altogether over time. It's very interesting to read about what things originally meant and how the world views it today.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...70&letter=S would really enlighten you about the whole Satan concept changing over time. Many things were taken out of the Bible, things got changed, and new things were added. Like according to Jewish folklore, popularize in the medieval times, Adam?s first wife wasn?t Eve but a woman named Lilith. Lilith was created out of clay like Adam was. She left the Garden of Eden and refused to return to Adam. The reason for her exile was because she claimed that since she and Adam were created in the same way, they were equal, and she refuses to "lay below" him. (to have sexual intercourse in the missionary position.) This gives me the impression that the story was to teach women how to act and that they were under men in stature. She later become a ?she-devil? figure, she killed infants and had children with demons (falling angels). Which brings be to my next story. Did you know that in the Bible, there were stories of ?the Sons of God? (Male Angels) seeing the beauty of our woman, and had offsprings with them called the Nephilim? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim for more information about the Nephilim.

Edited July 27, 2007 by Nataku418

[*Trey98607]

It generally says that they are with us, I think. I've never read the bible either, even being christian.

I believe in God because of religion and because it is my own choice.

The term that is used now isn't Holy Ghost, it's Holy Spirit, since the Spirit is the third person of the Blessed Trinity.

[CustodianGuyver]

I started the exact same post back on WG and the responces where intresting so I'm curious to see what everyone here at japan-legend.

As for myself, I don't believe in any god. I've come to the conclusion that god and religion alike are nothing more then instruments of human concence and the fear of death.

Spot on. You just stole my words but yeah religion+profit+bullshit+wars=seperates people.

As for me my race is advent.

[*Jess♥]

I find that when People have something to believe in, they feel their life has more purpose.

they feel valuable.

in this way.. religion can be a tool for People to cope with life more easily.

[*Trey98607]

It depends on what religion you are assocated with, as for me, I'm Catholic.

[*Youngtusk]

I find that when People have something to believe in, they feel their life has more purpose.

they feel valuable.

in this way.. religion can be a tool for People to cope with life more easily.

I don't believe in any sort of religion, but I still feel my life has purpose.

Its sad to me that People aren't satisfied with just living, they need something to live for. The universe is such a lonely place from our perspective, and yet People can't see the beauty in the fact that we're here and alive. So, if religion helps them, so be it. But my point is, why do People need something so abstract to live for? I mean, none of us asked to live, but we're alive anyway. Isn't that enough? Sure not everyone thinks like me, but they would if they would put their lives in perspective. Life is all we have, its the only thing we've got. If you can't appreciate life, then you've got nothing.

Anyway, I think religion is a joke. I mean, here we are, so imperfect and ignorant we can't even understand things like dark matter and gravity, what makes us so arrogant to say that we know what the creator of these mysteries wants us to do, or how it wants us to act? Give me a break, even if this universe was created by a higher being, its so far beyond us I dare say its near irrelevant to our conceited existence.

I don't need religion to appreciate life, I don't need religion to be thankfull for everything I have, i've just analyzed existence enough to come to the conclusion that i'm lucky to be here and that i've only got one shot at this, so it better be a damn good shot.

[*Trey98607]

The good example of that Youngtusk is the 9/11 thing, after that, everyone seemed to want to know more about God, also Pope John Paul II was another inspirator as well.

[*Jess♥]

there's a thing called existential anxiety.

if People continue to think along the lines of "what am i here for" it can breed a sense of hopelessness.

it's mostly when a person lacks ambition. People need something to work towards. a task.

because if there's nothing to work towards, that person could be alive or dead at any moment and it wouldn't matter. if they think it doesn't matter they feel they are worthless and low self esteem creeps in, thus destroying them from hte inside out.

[Larz Zahn]

Im not well versed in the bible or all that like i should be, but im a pentecostal christian an i believe in god but not religon. let me explain that please. religon is... tricky, i guess... its so muddled up with traditions that its took away from the true purpose of faith and the like. I believe in my doctrine, heck i even saw miracles, an old ladys hand was shriveled up like... a crumpled up piece of paper, then after she was prayed for it straightened out and became stronger than her other hand. her husband said she was mute, and she started talking after they prayed for her voice. Heck i myself should be dead from drowning and electricution. im... clumsy.... hehe.

I really wish i could go into indepth philosophys like you People do, but i dont have that sorta knowledge yet.

I dont make it a point to diss on other peoples beliefs so i hope i didnt offend anyone here, and i really do respect everyone here, i just felt i owed it to myself to let my own veiw point be known.

hope i didnt confuse anyone.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Larz Zahn

[Guest the_rotton_core]

I'm an atheist. I recommend reading Tricks of the mind for some very interesting ideas on religion. Derren Brown (the biggest thing in mentalism at the moment and a hugely successful British entertainer) was raised a catholic and is now an atheist. His journy and changing views say a lot that I agree with. Also the God delusion is a good read for anyone. Even People with faith should give this a look as it's a very strong challenge and I think all faith should be challenged. I have had many mixed ideas about God and read a great deal around it before finally deciding where I stand.

"Isn't enough to see that the garden is beautiful without having to imagine there are faries living in the bottom of it?" (Douglass Adams)

[*V Guyver]

that's very accurate Ryuki. It's one of the reasons why religion is still so prominent despite science constantly disproving or given alternate answers for our beliefs.

God is a mixed bag for me. I can't deny him, nor accept him. I have no faith in him, but I wish there was a God to have faith in. But ultimately, I have to at one time or another have faith in myself, or the People around me in order to support my purpose in life. Otherwise, I simply ignore that question and life life daily.

I've been having a huge religious crises since I was 12. I gave up believe in god as a kid and shortly disowned myself from the church. My family and friends thought I was nuts afterwords. Ironically my mom also ended up leaving the catholic church, but it was more due to her boyfriend. But that was bizarre and disturbing, it was a christian based religion, and it's common in Brazil, but it turned out to have many elements the church would consider pagan. I couldn't stand it after the first mass hallucinogenic religious grouping with the induced vomiting. She broke up with the boyfriend shortly after kicking me out of the house, and ended up later in a Brazilian evangelical church, which is actually pretty nice in comparison to my old experiences with organized religion.

Religion has has left me jarred, I don't pray, ever. Well there are some exceptions. I'm obligated by other's faiths to pray. I had a man who came into my job one day, he began to cry while I helped him out with his shopping. I tried to calm him, and reinforce his resolve to carry on despite loosing his brother. He asked me to pray. Though I don't believe in the concept of God, or at least the versions we have of "God" I prayed for him and his brother because he asked me to. I'd do the same for others, and I prayed for my family's pride an joy, my cousin Vania, despite my lack of faith... it felt obligatory and old habits die I guess.

You know, I ended up reading the entire bible when I was 8, I reread it many times over (though never memorized it). I did it on my own accord, I liked to read, didn't care for the teachings from catechism, in fact, I often found it all contradictory. Then I got into history, started researching... and got disturbed, puzzled, and curious about all these conflicting faiths, beliefs, and rules. Not just in the catholic church but all religions. Here are some examples I have.

Why is it that Muslims stone to death and look on with disdain for none Muslims, widows, and orphans? Muhammad was an orphan, his mother a widow, he related to these people. He originally had a pagan faith too. But he created a new one, set up charities for orphans and widows, and taught many things (some good, some bad in my opinion) Yet, People forget this, it becomes perversed to fit someone else's needs, or outright erased if not overwritten with other things. The Koran was written ages after his death, but it's treated as if he wrote it himself. I talked to a Muslim friend, who constantly attempted to convert me whilst I was in college. We both took history, but ended up talking more about religion. We exchanged notes in religion, and it he was shocked by some of the misconceptions he was taught about Christianity, and I was shocked by some of the things he mentioned. I had started to study a bit of the Koran years before, but never read the entire thing, but I knew when it was made, and I knew details about Muhammad he didn't know. Seems that his group believes Muhammad wrote the Koran, I told him Muhammad didn't know how to read, but was a great speaker. He then told me God gave him the power to write the Koran, that he learned to read and write through gods power. But then I pointed out that it's been recorded as well that the Koran was written much later, centuries later. Just like the bible was. We looked at me pretty shocked, but composed himself a bit and told me that sometimes even he has to disagree with some of the things taught in his group. I then told him about my findings of Jesus.

Jesus, it also misconceived. He had no beard, had no long hair according to his earliest representations. His date of birth is off by 8 years before the current official date by most estimates. He was born around march, but we celebrate his birthday around December. He wasn't born in a shed, nor a cave as some memorabilia scams claim, he was actually born in a hotel. He definitely wasn't white, had a huge nose, and olive tan. He was not crucified to a cross, Romans typically crucified People to tree's, not specially made cross's... if any one can recall what happened to Spartacus and his men, then you know exactly how they did their classifications.

So why was Jesus turned into a younger bearded Hippie? Well, he didn't look holy enough, that's why. In order to convert mass numbers of pagan Germanic and native peoples, they needed a figure that looked wise despite his age, and holy. A youthful young carpenter with great affection for others hardly strikes one as holy. SO they made him bearded, and in many cases associated him with pagan figures to win them over. They even did that to God. God was associated with god's like Endovelicus... which ironically ended up having many of that gods traits passed on to the Hebrew god to become the Christian God People are taught. God in hebrew literature could and would do horrible acts on others, and had great fury. He wasn't a totally benevolent god, unlike Endovelicus of the Lusitanian People (They had other gods to play the bad guy). Which reminds me, look at Lucifer, changed to a villain to suit this new incarnation of God. From most loyal and devoted follower, to Rebel all the sudden because we needed someone to take the blame!? How about the the birthday issue with Jesus? Okay, he was born around march, the Romans didn't want to give up their pagan holiday in December that involved sex and booze. What better way to avoid loosing it AND honor their new faith by having it on December to allow that booze and sex to go on. The Church wanted the Romans to covert, and this was a sacrifice to allow them to keep a holiday that was helping to keep them from being converted to Christianity. 8 year birth difference can be attributed to People who wrote about Jesus, and didn't do their research. I have no idea why the Shed story was invented... it was well known where they were, why, and how he was born. So it baffles me as to why it was changed to a Shed. The three wise men can be disputed, but can't be disproved, but the location Jesus's birth can be proven and disproved thanks to historical research.

Finally, we all know about the bible and dead sea scrolls. But did you know women used to be able to be priests at one time? Apparently, there was a power struggle in the early church as it was forming. Women were removed from power and allowed only a limited role. There aren't too man known reasons why, though it could of been pure sexism, or possibly a political move. But afterwords, women became second rate citizens, even under god.

How about popes? What about the church breaking into two churches (Roman catholic vs Orthodox)? Well lots of popes have come and gone, but many were actually removed from the list of popes even though they existed, one was possibly even a woman in secret. Others, are well known for their cruelty, example, one pope went around dumping another pope into the ocean out of hate, another pope came in and removed him, and cut off the finger that held the ring of Paul and cast him in a similar manner as revenge, only for the same to be done to him. The pope's office, for most of the duration of human history, had been bought off, and treated as a gigantic mob like Scientology scam. Just look at what happened to the Knights Templar, the most loyal branch of the church, and richest... done away by the greed of a king and the corruption of the pope.

Sorry if I wrote too much, but I can't help it. Makes me able to deal with my religious thinking and reflect on it better.

[*Trey98607]

You mentioned woman priests, in the Catholic side, women are prohibited from becoming priests, but there is no law saying that a woman can't be a Nun, I know there are women priest. You also mentioned God as being a mixed bag, he is. He's three persons in one, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The son I am referring to is our Lord Jesus Christ.

[*V Guyver]

You mentioned woman priests, in the Catholic side, women are prohibited from becoming priests, but there is no law saying that a woman can't be a Nun, I know there are women priest. You also mentioned God as being a mixed bag, he is. He's three persons in one, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The son I am referring to is our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's true, but that's not what I was talking about, way before that. I'm talking about when the Church was being formed and even before any major churches were formed, Women were big speakers of Christ in ancient times. When the Catholic church was formed, one of the primary things they did was prevent women from any influential roles, thus they could not dictate any views on Christ, only men. This carried on to almost all church's that later appeared, including the orthodox church, which was originally a part of the catholic church as a single entity.

As for the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That depends in which christian and even Muslim religion you follow. Orthodox Christianity has him merely as prophet, as does Mohammadian religions. Originally, he wasn't taught as a son of god or holy spirit or god incarnated, just the messiah and prophet sent by god to save the Jews. Later, they seemed to change that into the form that is now currently taught in Catholic church's. From a human being with a pure heart, to god himself. They changed a lot about Christ to the point that he's no longer a real person in the bible, but just some religious object of worship.

Christ hated the worship of idols, the trade of money in religious institution (he caused a rack us in a Jewish temple at one time because of this, actually flipping over tables and yelling the vendors to get out.) Michelangelo when painting the Sistine Chapel's ceiling was ridiculed by the Pope of the Catholic church at the time, because he didn't paint golden objects and riches into the painting. Michelangelo took offense at this because of his believes as followed:

The Pope often saw Michelangelo, and said, "Have the chapel enriched with colours and gold, in which it is poor." He would answer familiarly, "Holy Father, in those days they did not wear gold; they never became very rich, but were holy men who despised wealth."

It was true, since Jesus had no desire for gold and wealth, and often talked against such obsessions, yet the church that offers teachings buy him was completely based off gaining wealth and power over salvation of souls.

There are two more things to note about the way church's worked. Did you know that original confessions used to be a public matter. A Way to gain power over a person. A Person would confess his faults and crimes in front of everyone, eventually it was done in private. But it didn't stop church officials from abusing such power. This along with threats of excommunication from the church often places many kings, officials, and men of power under the thumb of the church.

The second thing is related to mythological monsters. The church had problems keeping the faithful in church. Especially during the dark ages, but they found a solution. They used the stories of monster, even creating new ones and spread the word of hideous monster in forests. But there was a way to defend yourself from werewolves, vampires, goblins, trolls, and other monsters. The solutions though were only available in church sermons, so if you were afraid of the monsters and couldn't go out into the forest as a result, then you'd have to go to the church for both comfort, and the info you seek to defend yourself. It's funny how People actually fell for that, but then again everyone falls for crap like this on a daily basis even today.

I wanted to be a priest and artist as a kid. But my experience with church goers, their lack of humanity... and the teachings I found contradictory and teachings that I concluded were lies forced me to break ties with it. It's not that I wanted to do it, I just had to. I didn't want to lose faith... I miss it, I miss having faith in god and going itno the church, with the feeling of security and happiness that you get when you entered one. I just can't do that anymore.

[*zeo]

You don't have to follow religion to have faith, just believe in yourself and your sense of right and wrong. And if you are lucky, find like minded People to share company with.

Matters of the heart and spirit should never be limited to just words and traditionalized ceromony.

[Renegade]

According to Occam's razor, the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory.

That being said, it takes far too many assumptions to believe the theories presented in most religions or in the theory of God for it to be logically accepted.

As I like to live my life as logic dictates, I'm satisfied with this answer.

I still like religion as it can be an important tool for bringing People together, and it has a significant role in human history and sociology. However, just as many times as its been a tool for bringing order and peace, it has been used for manipulation and subjugation. In this way, religion can be dangerous, and must never supersede logic. However, most rules and mandates of modern religion have logical roots, and there is little harm in respecting the customs of the past under most circumstances.

[*Trey98607]

Apparently you have forgotten that Jesus said to Peter, upon this rock I shall build my church. He was saying this since it was Peter who became the first pope. As for becoming a priest, it depends on what faith you believe in, first you become a Semenarian, which takes quite a few years. Then when you become a deconate, you are given an assignment in one of the parishes, then finally you are ordained as a priest you become a pastor of a parish for six years.

[CustodianGuyver]

that's very accurate Ryuki. It's one of the reasons why religion is still so prominent despite science constantly disproving or given alternate answers for our beliefs.

God is a mixed bag for me. I can't deny him, nor accept him. I have no faith in him, but I wish there was a God to have faith in. But ultimately, I have to at one time or another have faith in myself, or the People around me in order to support my purpose in life. Otherwise, I simply ignore that question and life life daily.

I've been having a huge religious crises since I was 12. I gave up believe in god as a kid and shortly disowned myself from the church. My family and friends thought I was nuts afterwords. Ironically my mom also ended up leaving the catholic church, but it was more due to her boyfriend. But that was bizarre and disturbing, it was a christian based religion, and it's common in Brazil, but it turned out to have many elements the church would consider pagan. I couldn't stand it after the first mass hallucinogenic religious grouping with the induced vomiting. She broke up with the boyfriend shortly after kicking me out of the house, and ended up later in a Brazilian evangelical church, which is actually pretty nice in comparison to my old experiences with organized religion.

Religion has has left me jarred, I don't pray, ever. Well there are some exceptions. I'm obligated by other's faiths to pray. I had a man who came into my job one day, he began to cry while I helped him out with his shopping. I tried to calm him, and reinforce his resolve to carry on despite loosing his brother. He asked me to pray. Though I don't believe in the concept of God, or at least the versions we have of "God" I prayed for him and his brother because he asked me to. I'd do the same for others, and I prayed for my family's pride an joy, my cousin Vania, despite my lack of faith... it felt obligatory and old habits die I guess.

You know, I ended up reading the entire bible when I was 8, I reread it many times over (though never memorized it). I did it on my own accord, I liked to read, didn't care for the teachings from catechism, in fact, I often found it all contradictory. Then I got into history, started researching... and got disturbed, puzzled, and curious about all these conflicting faiths, beliefs, and rules. Not just in the catholic church but all religions. Here are some examples I have.

Why is it that Muslims stone to death and look on with disdain for none Muslims, widows, and orphans? Muhammad was an orphan, his mother a widow, he related to these people. He originally had a pagan faith too. But he created a new one, set up charities for orphans and widows, and taught many things (some good, some bad in my opinion) Yet, People forget this, it becomes perversed to fit someone else's needs, or outright erased if not overwritten with other things. The Koran was written ages after his death, but it's treated as if he wrote it himself. I talked to a Muslim friend, who constantly attempted to convert me whilst I was in college. We both took history, but ended up talking more about religion. We exchanged notes in religion, and it he was shocked by some of the misconceptions he was taught about Christianity, and I was shocked by some of the things he mentioned. I had started to study a bit of the Koran years before, but never read the entire thing, but I knew when it was made, and I knew details about Muhammad he didn't know. Seems that his group believes Muhammad wrote the Koran, I told him Muhammad didn't know how to read, but was a great speaker. He then told me God gave him the power to write the Koran, that he learned to read and write through gods power. But then I pointed out that it's been recorded as well that the Koran was written much later, centuries later. Just like the bible was. We looked at me pretty shocked, but composed himself a bit and told me that sometimes even he has to disagree with some of the things taught in his group. I then told him about my findings of Jesus.

Jesus, it also misconceived. He had no beard, had no long hair according to his earliest representations. His date of birth is off by 8 years before the current official date by most estimates. He was born around march, but we celebrate his birthday around December. He wasn't born in a shed, nor a cave as some memorabilia scams claim, he was actually born in a hotel. He definitely wasn't white, had a huge nose, and olive tan. He was not crucified to a cross, Romans typically crucified People to tree's, not specially made cross's... if any one can recall what happened to Spartacus and his men, then you know exactly how they did their classifications.

So why was Jesus turned into a younger bearded Hippie? Well, he didn't look holy enough, that's why. In order to convert mass numbers of pagan Germanic and native peoples, they needed a figure that looked wise despite his age, and holy. A youthful young carpenter with great affection for others hardly strikes one as holy. SO they made him bearded, and in many cases associated him with pagan figures to win them over. They even did that to God. God was associated with god's like Endovelicus... which ironically ended up having many of that gods traits passed on to the Hebrew god to become the Christian God People are taught. God in hebrew literature could and would do horrible acts on others, and had great fury. He wasn't a totally benevolent god, unlike Endovelicus of the Lusitanian People (They had other gods to play the bad guy). Which reminds me, look at Lucifer, changed to a villain to suit this new incarnation of God. From most loyal and devoted follower, to Rebel all the sudden because we needed someone to take the blame!? How about the the birthday issue with Jesus? Okay, he was born around march, the Romans didn't want to give up their pagan holiday in December that involved sex and booze. What better way to avoid loosing it AND honor their new faith by having it on December to allow that booze and sex to go on. The Church wanted the Romans to covert, and this was a sacrifice to allow them to keep a holiday that was helping to keep them from being converted to Christianity. 8 year birth difference can be attributed to People who wrote about Jesus, and didn't do their research. I have no idea why the Shed story was invented... it was well known where they were, why, and how he was born. So it baffles me as to why it was changed to a Shed. The three wise men can be disputed, but can't be disproved, but the location Jesus's birth can be proven and disproved thanks to historical research.

Finally, we all know about the bible and dead sea scrolls. But did you know women used to be able to be priests at one time? Apparently, there was a power struggle in the early church as it was forming. Women were removed from power and allowed only a limited role. There aren't too man known reasons why, though it could of been pure sexism, or possibly a political move. But afterwords, women became second rate citizens, even under god.

How about popes? What about the church breaking into two churches (Roman catholic vs Orthodox)? Well lots of popes have come and gone, but many were actually removed from the list of popes even though they existed, one was possibly even a woman in secret. Others, are well known for their cruelty, example, one pope went around dumping another pope into the ocean out of hate, another pope came in and removed him, and cut off the finger that held the ring of Paul and cast him in a similar manner as revenge, only for the same to be done to him. The pope's office, for most of the duration of human history, had been bought off, and treated as a gigantic mob like Scientology scam. Just look at what happened to the Knights Templar, the most loyal branch of the church, and richest... done away by the greed of a king and the corruption of the pope.

Sorry if I wrote too much, but I can't help it. Makes me able to deal with my religious thinking and reflect on it better.

Long post but I read it all. Most of the stuff I agree in the post. For me a religion= waste of time. I see no point in praying to something that I will never see. I might as well pray for Guyver Season 2 to come out another 25 episodes.

Gets out a carpet kneels and prays oh mighty Takya san please make Guyver Season 2 Anime series. :biggrin:

Edited June 19, 2008 by CustodianGuyver

[*V Guyver]

Long post but I read it all. Most of the stuff I agree in the post. For me a religion= waste of time. I see no point in praying to something that I will never see. I might as well pray for Guyver Season 2 to come out another 25 episodes.

Gets out a carpet kneels and prays oh mighty Takya san please make Guyver Season 2 Anime series. :biggrin:

Amen to that brother. Now Guyver Season two I can pray for. Hell I'm willing to run down the my street naked while wearing only a priests color if that would give us a Season 2.