Meaning of Life

[S Naught]

Alright, let's stop griping about what I do for work, and more into real philosophy.

What is the meaning of life? What is your raison d'etre? What is the proof that humanity deserves to exist?

It's something that everyone thinks about every so often.

It's pretty unlikely any of you have come to a conclusion, but I'm interested in discussing what you've come up with so far, so that we may pool our experiences, and maybe form a cohesive construct of what life means for a middle age person (age 15-40), which is the age range of this thread, if not this board.

By no means am I asking you to reach a conclusive end now, however I'd like to know what you think it is at this moment in time. Writing things while at the same time worrying about other people's perceptions is a test to see what's really on your mind. I also want to make an informal rule that nobody is to edit their posts in this topic. I want People who are interested to think long and hard about their position in life before posting. I don't want People constantly pushing out feel-good cliches, but if you thought about it for a bit, then it's ok.

For me, it's pretty silly. By the simple act of me creating this topic I have set out to prove that I have a sense of purpose by finding the meaning of life. Finding the meaning of life by finding the meaning of life by finding...it's the picture of Ourobolos, the snake eating it's own tail. In all likelihood I won't find an answer on my own, so I do things like these.

[durendal]

What is the proof that humanity deserves to exist?

Unfortunately, where I live, I don't see any of it. In fact, I see the exact opposite.

[*zeo]

To me the meaning of life is self explanitory... Life is the meaning of life.

It's the act of living that gives it meaning. Whether you believe in an immortal soul or not is unimportant, life will go on in either case.

Life is change!

Life is experience!

Life creates order from chaos!

Life is existence!

The basic reasons I think People have trouble understanding this, or more precisely accepting it, is because we tend to think of just ourselves and not life as a whole.

But we all effect each other from the smallest organism to the largest. Everything we do in life has ramifications and what we do defines our purpose in life as we effect the whole.

Not to mention ego is another factor, like many ask the question of the meaning of life to determine some ultimate purpose for life.

In that regard I consider the meaning of life to give meaning to the universe, cause without life then the whole universe would exist for absolutely no reason. It would simply exist and them someday not exist. Because without life and ultimately without consciousness there can be no understanding, no insite, no appreciation for existence, etc.

So life is the meaning of life IMHO.

[largo]

To me the meaning of life is self explanitory... Life is the meaning of life.

It's the act of living that gives it meaning. Whether you believe in an immortal soul or not is unimportant, life will go on in either case.

Life is change!

Life is experience!

Life creates order from chaos!

Life is existence!

The basic reasons I think People have trouble understanding this, or more precisely accepting it, is because we tend to think of just ourselves and not life as a whole.

But we all effect each other from the smallest organism to the largest. Everything we do in life has ramifications and what we do defines our purpose in life as we effect the whole.

Not to mention ego is another factor, like many ask the question of the meaning of life to determine some ultimate purpose for life.

In that regard I consider the meaning of life to give meaning to the universe, cause without life then the whole universe would exist for absolutely no reason. It would simply exist and them someday not exist. Because without life and ultimately without consciousness there can be no understanding, no insite, no appreciation for existence, etc.

So life is the meaning of life IMHO.

Zeo thanks for the positive outlook but lets face it the meaning of life is meraly something that we being sentient beings are burdened with. Because we think we are almost forced to think about these kinds of things it goes along with the whole god thing. But for the most part life is simply the time between when we are born, reproduce, and eventually die. In essence the drive to live that almost all animals possess is actually the drive to reproduce and carry on ones gentic code. Yep that's right the reason why we are driven to survive is simlpy SEX. Isn't this world great!

[S Naught]

Life is change!

Life is experience!

Life creates order from chaos!

Life is existence!

Wow, that vaguely sounds like the opening introduction to Mahou Sentai Magiranger.

Magic, it is a sacred power.

Magic, is an adventure into the unknown

Magic, and t is the proof of courage!

:cue theme song

[*Jess♥]

I think the People best qualified to answer this question are the People to whom life actually has meaning.

those People who have a purpose. The People who have a purpose in their life will tell you straight away what the meaning of life is FOR THEM.

but there is a pattern... and I have met many People who, like me, have purpose.

the answer is "to make others happy" this is the pattern that has emerged. almost anyone who has a driving force.. something that makes their life worthwhile, something that they endeavor towards it is to make others happy, to enrich others lives and to inspire others.

that is why I do the things I do... to make others happy. If I can see a smile on the face of another, it makes me feel good and that is my purpose.

I also want to strive to make the world a better place.

I feel that this also links in with my own spiritual beliefs.

that human beings come to inhabit the earth in an eternal quest to learn and improve upon ourselves.

as a whole and not just personally. that is why the ones who can make others happy or inspire others endeavor to help the rest of the People to reach their own personal apex.

the meaning of life - "happiness - for oneself and for others"

[Guest Miyamoto Musashi]

Hmm thats actually pretty close to what I was gonna say.

I once saw a poster (maybe it was a bilboard) It had 2 dolphins leaping through the water and text at the bottom reading "every creature on this earth knows that the meaning of life is to enjoy it".

I think that could just hit the nail on the head.

I see it as pretty pointless to wonder for days on end about the greater purpose of life or the existance of higher beings as it will always be an excercise in futility. There is no way to know for sure while living and whatever you may (or may not) find out in death doesn't matter cause theres no way to share it with the living world.

The problem is most People don't even know what true enjoyment is and would rather persue quick gratification or a sense of power by doing things that are ultimately damaging to themselves.

Like that guy in startrek said "don't try and be a great man just try and be a man" or something like that.

Funnily enough me and rom were talking yesterday about how People have lost the sense of treating others as you expect to be treated but I see it as a good way to live even if it does result in ya getting it thrown back in ya face from time to time.

[*Jess♥]

Thanks for those dude

I shall have to remember that, I like the way that was phrased about the dolphins.

and also the bit about the star trek.

I also cannot remember who said that and when.. but I rmember it was good.

oh.. hold on, it was zefram cochrane..

I just want to add... I don't think you should treat People how you would expect to be treated... i think you should treat People how THEY expect to be treated.

but the only way to find that out is by trial and error.. in new meetings, I find it best to be cautious, polite and friendly.

[S Naught]

Holy cow! Every post in the thread has alternated between pessimistic/optimistic so far.

[*zeo]

Welcome to life :wink:

Though the point I was trying to get across with my post was not optimism... Just acceptance. Since experience, change, etc. can be both good and/or bad.

You could take it as either optimistic or pessimistic depending on your own outlook on life.

[Guest DaMoe]

As far as what gives us humans the right to exist goes, i think the answer is that we have a right to exist simply because we do exist. A whole sentient race wouldnt just appear if it wasnt meant to appear.

As far as the meaning of life goes, to be honest, i dont care. If we knew the meaning of life then life would lose meaning. After all, even if we do find out the meaning of life, all we can do with it is just say "Oh, i see.".

[ZoneFighter]

The purpose for live is to love and serve the Creator but we are alls rebels and don't but invent false gods of our own instead. Some of us think those false gods give us the right to murder other humans. Some of us are even so foolish and arrogant to claim that no Creator exists.

[durendal]

Tell me not if mournful numbers, life is but an empty dream.

For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem.

Life is real, Life is earnest, and the grave is not its goal

Dust thou art to dust returnest, was not spoken of the soul

Not enjoyment and not sorrow, is out destined end or way,

But to act, that each to-morrow, find us farther from to-day

Art is long and time is fleeting, and our hearts though stout and breave.

Still, like muffled drums are beating, funeral marches to the grave.

In the world's broad field of battle, in the bivouac of Life,

Be not like Dumb driven cattle, be a hero in the strife!

Trust no future howe'ver pleasant, let the dead past bury it's dead.

Act-! act in the living present, Heart within and God o'erhead

Lives of great men all remind us, We can make our lives sublime.

And, departing, leave behind us, footprints in the sand of time.

Footprints that perhaps another, sailing o'er life's solemn main.

A forlorn and shipwrecked brother, Seeing, shall take heart again.

Lets us then, be up and doing, With a heart for any fate.

Still achieving, still pursuing, learn to labor and to wait.

[Wiedergänger]

The meaning of life is that it Ends.

And that, in the end, all things change.

Nothing is worth getting, unless you work for it.

The act creates the value of the doing.

And the doing requires change and lose of resources.

The sub-meanings of life are that, we are gifted to exprence

this thing we label as life, and everything it encompasses.

All the things we feel, all the wonder times we have.

And finally when the gift of life is over, (I believe anyways) that I will finally

Be sent to heaven, to live in peace with the Lord for all time.

So, yes, the meaning of Life is that it Ends. :wink:

[Guest shinjifo]

Well acordenly to the hilarious film hick hikers guide to the galaxy, the answer of life is 42 hehehehe

Jokes aside, although I don't know the meaning of life, I do know that life is order. I've thought about this based on the second law of termodinamics.

Basicly the second law states that the enthorpy (a quantity of chaos) in the universe is constantly growing, and so there's always less energy now than there was a moment ago. So in the end everything will simply stop moving at an atomic level. And after that ? Got no clue...

Anyways, every thing thats consider alive in some ways slows down the loss of energy, by making proteins, glicose, and any process that organizes atoms...

Well that's a some taste of what I've thought about, wrote a few pages on this subject but realy can't remember where I've put it...

[*Jess♥]

It is an interesting way of looking at it...

but I think you can look at it two ways and it depends on pessimism or optemism.

the way you have presented it is that life is order...

however, order being the loss of energy and things settling to a lower energetic state.. I call that dying.

whereas life is the energy going into something.

so you could look at it in the way that ... life is dying.

you start off alive and you die.

that seems like a shortened version.

maybe i misenterpreted what you were saying, but thats what it seemed to suggest.

say, I would take from what you said to say that life is chaos.

because you start off with the big bang and you have a big explosion from that.

most chemical reactions occur through the expense of energy .. burning... controlled explosions.. controlled chaos..

so I would say that life is controlled chaos..

and dying is order.

well life is death anyway. things die do other things can live. it's inevitable.

but yeah.. those are my thoughts on what you said.

it was interesting!

[Wiedergänger]

It is an interesting way of looking at it...

but I think you can look at it two ways and it depends on pessimism or optemism.

the way you have presented it is that life is order...

however, order being the loss of energy and things settling to a lower energetic state.. I call that dying.

whereas life is the energy going into something.

so you could look at it in the way that ... life is dying.

you start off alive and you die.

that seems like a shortened version.

maybe i misenterpreted what you were saying, but thats what it seemed to suggest.

My thoughts exactly! Lol, see my post above

[Guest mvedder]

The meaning of life? Let's stop being concerned with WHY we're here and concentrate on living in the present. Let it be, to quote Sir McCartney. We try to give meaning and reason to things we have no way of measuring or understanding. Too many "scholars" I've met are so consumed in explaining the universe that their own "universe" i.e. their families are neglected and unloved. Be glad you were born and cherish it. "For the love of God...cherish it... you do!"

[Guest Melissa]

I believe that everyone has a purpose, whether or not they've discovered it is their thing. For me, it's doing what I can to serve others. My other purpose is to find out who I am, who I'll be and who I am in between, lol

I'm glad I was born, that I have a definite purpose in serving my fellow man (or woman).

[*Youngtusk]

I see several aspects to the meaning of life. On one level its a quantifiable miracle of cosmic mishaps, but on a more practical and humanitarian level, I don't really have an answer. I'm still trying to figure it out myself!

Personnaly i'm living to see tomorrow because I truly am blown away by everything I learn about us. Our biology, psychology, our planet, galaxy, etc. Its all fascinating, and I feel as if its all leading somewhere. I don't think we'll make it there in my life time(unless I get old enough for stem-cell boosts!) but someday we'll explore the stars; I think thats where we belong. Working together to conquer space.

Thats why i'm so frustrated with all the silly crap thats going on right now. How do People care more about Lindsay Lohan than the supernova that created our solar system? It amazes me that People are so disconnected from reality. Its like i'll watch People at my school or when I go out and buy coffee, they're all asleep, on their cell phones, iPods, gossiping about the party over the weekend. Its like the friggin Matrix! The Allegory of the Cave! I wonder, if People stopped taking everything for granted and tryed on a more objective view point, if they'd appreciate everything more, and start living everyday like it was their last.

A few days ago I went up to some mountains near my home, about an hour drive to the snow. I hiked around for a good three hours, looking at all the snow covered valleys and pine trees. The full moon rolled in, and the moonlight reflected off the snow and lit up the whole place like it was day. It was utterly beautiful, breathetaking, and it was placed here by the natural mechanics of our world!

Life is truly a beautiful thing, you can see it on a nice hike, or on the face of a newly born baby. Theres something more going on in this life than MySpace, that New Job, and Paris Hilton. Theres a whole world out there that most People have never seen; who don't even know existes!

So are we worth saving? Your gods damn right we are. Humans are malleable; our brains were meant to adapt, its a survival mechanism. I believe that People can change, simply because thats what we humans do. The world can become a better place, but we can't rely on a politician or a peace treaty. We can't delay it until after college, after we've got a career. We can't dump it on the next generation. We've got to sacrifice for the greater good of human progress. It starts with us.

[*Jess♥]

It's such a nice thing you say dude

I think though that over teh past year or so I am learning a lot more about teh human condition and what it is to be alive.

I think that a lot of People forget how to be human.

to be human is to communicate. to live with others and to experience relationships.

thats how we evolved from base creatures into hte complex system we inhabit today. cooperation etc.

that's why I actually think it's important to gossip about paris hiltojn etc, because it is a way of social bonding that prompts us to care when our friend is in trouble. if we did not bond in this way, we would not care about our fellow man or woman.

I think it is wequally important to value the owrld we live in, and equally valuable to value the persojn sitting next to us and what makes them tick.

their favourite music, their favourite book etc.

otherwise teh world may as well be empty.

I think the best part about seeing a wonderful beautiful place is

a) thinking about how great it will be to tell your friend about it

b) thinking back on how great it was when telling your friend about it.

[*Youngtusk]

that's why I actually think it's important to gossip about paris hiltojn etc, because it is a way of social bonding that prompts us to care when our friend is in trouble. if we did not bond in this way, we would not care about our fellow man or woman.

I cannot disagree with you more.

For one; the only reason People like Paris Hilton get some much publicity is because People love to see the titans fall. They like to see celebrities suffer through things that normal People have to suffer through. I don't know how much ya'll invest in Psychology, but it probably has something to do with envy of their social status.

And secondly; what I hate even more about those like Lindsay Lohan and the such is that they're a distraction. Theres a saying that goes, "The Romans had bread and circus; we have welfare and football." The Roman Empire hosted free gladiatorial Games and tossed out free bread in order to win over the People and keep them from thinking about the social and political problems of their civilization. Our goverments would love nothing more than for Paris to be all over the media, because that means that they aren't in the spotlight themselves.

However, I agree People should bond, they should just do it in a different way, such as talking about their common interests rather than the media's clown of the week. Talk about furture aspirations and tell funny stories, etc.

[*YoungGuyver]

Personally, I admire something I saw of the French. The HUGE protests that they do. Though the documentary was definetly biased, so I'm giving it a grain of salt. But a People THAT involved, standing up to their leaders for their rights? I'm sorry, but I don't get a legislated 5 weeks paid vacation. We're lucky to get 2, and I had to get seniority to earn 3. It shouldn't be corporate lobbyists that convince our leaders, it should be the threat of US!

But to the topic, I kind of think the point of the universe and us are one and the same. We are, after all, made of the same thing. I think the essence of the universe is the point to it. Kind of weird and hard to explain, and I'd rather not. It's my own form of religious view

[*Jess♥]

I cannot disagree with you more.

For one; the only reason People like Paris Hilton get some much publicity is because People love to see the titans fall. They like to see celebrities suffer through things that normal People have to suffer through. I don't know how much ya'll invest in Psychology, but it probably has something to do with envy of their social status.

And secondly; what I hate even more about those like Lindsay Lohan and the such is that they're a distraction. Theres a saying that goes, "The Romans had bread and circus; we have welfare and football." The Roman Empire hosted free gladiatorial Games and tossed out free bread in order to win over the People and keep them from thinking about the social and political problems of their civilization. Our goverments would love nothing more than for Paris to be all over the media, because that means that they aren't in the spotlight themselves.

However, I agree People should bond, they should just do it in a different way, such as talking about their common interests rather than the media's clown of the week. Talk about furture aspirations and tell funny stories, etc.

I understand what you say, I guess you refer to that tv show "the simple life" well a lot of these types of shows could each be given their own case... but take this example.. do you not think that this type of show helps morale in some way? it shows People that their normal skills aren't something to be taken for granted and that normal People do have great value and can be considered special. People are often shown how 'great' celebrities are, buit the normal everyday skills are very rarely given such prestige. but when you see these girls completely messing everything up, it makes the general populace proud to be a 'normal' person. this could even be a debate in it's own right!! but well..

I guess what maybe your driving at is People attitudes towards it rather than what I argued for here.

I agree there is a lot of hatred in hte world. somebody broke the reflector on my bike last night. they must have kicked it. the only reasojn I can think of is that they saw it, thought it looked nice and decided that it wasn't allowed to be nice. possibly jealousy.. like you mentioned.

I don't think thats down to entertainment though.. I think thats down to how they have been brought up. it's all down to self esteem. they don't feel good about themselves so anythig that looks good, they have to destroy so they can feel a little bit better.

it's the whole social system in this country... low sefl esteem.. it's what makes the uk suck.. and maybe other western cuiltures...

this is one thing I noticed in japan. it's not like that there. you don't see this kind of hatred. I think i even met a Yakuza, and he was actually a really nice guy.

Personally, I admire something I saw of the French. The HUGE protests that they do. Though the documentary was definetly biased, so I'm giving it a grain of salt. But a People THAT involved, standing up to their leaders for their rights? I'm sorry, but I don't get a legislated 5 weeks paid vacation. We're lucky to get 2, and I had to get seniority to earn 3. It shouldn't be corporate lobbyists that convince our leaders, it should be the threat of US!

But to the topic, I kind of think the point of the universe and us are one and the same. We are, after all, made of the same thing. I think the essence of the universe is the point to it. Kind of weird and hard to explain, and I'd rather not. It's my own form of religious view

I think I had a similar experience recently..

I was standing in a shrine in tokyo and it was very big emty space.. and I realized that teh whole point of that space was simply to be empty (calm) and nothing more or less than that.

the simplicity was something so beautiful to behold.

[*Youngtusk]

I agree there is a lot of hatred in hte world. somebody broke the reflector on my bike last night. they must have kicked it. the only reasojn I can think of is that they saw it, thought it looked nice and decided that it wasn't allowed to be nice. possibly jealousy.. like you mentioned.

I don't think thats down to entertainment though.. I think thats down to how they have been brought up. it's all down to self esteem. they don't feel good about themselves so anythig that looks good, they have to destroy so they can feel a little bit better.

it's the whole social system in this country... low sefl esteem.. it's what makes the uk suck.. and maybe other western cuiltures...

this is one thing I noticed in japan. it's not like that there. you don't see this kind of hatred. I think i even met a Yakuza, and he was actually a really nice guy.

I don't think that self-esteem is the issue. I recall reading an article about self-esteem in my English class. It was beleived that if you could make kids think good about themselves, i.e. raise their self-esteem, then it would motivate them to do better things. It turned out that that was not the case. For example, if a kid got an F on a science test, he'd blame the teacher or test before himself because his parents were always telling him how smart and good he was.

Although i agree that it has to do with people's upbringing. The way one's raised does have direct influence on the way they live their lives. And I don't think that what People feel for those celebrities is hatred; its more like a lack of compassion. When People watch Lindsay Lohan get hauled off to jail on TV< its like they think they're watching the circus. But its real people.

IT goes back to my original point; People are insanely disconnected with reality, especially here in the U.S. But it seems to me like they'd rather gossip about Paris Hilton rather than face the complex issues of Iran or illegal immigration. They excited about these politicians, promising change and promisising to fix everything. But then once they're elected they stop caring, like they've done their part in changing society, and now they're handing the torch off to the Pres.

Oi vey. Anyway thats enough ranting.

Our society may be twisted, but it has its up points for sure. For example, at least we don't have to worry about being trampled by a Mastadon like our ancestors, or worry about our pets/us being attacks be aggressive Funnel Web Spiders like the folk in Australia. We don't need to worry about being ambushed by bandits on dirt roads like in the colonial days. Lets be frank here, we've got it pretty good.