Star Trek

[Hyper_Guyvantic]

Well the movie is out. What did you all think of it? I rather enjoyed it. And my date, who really isnt into Star Trek liked it to. Granted I'd have to see the movie all over again to put my own little summary like I wanted to do with Cloverfield. But hey, it gives me a reason to se the movie again

I do like how it started off with the Kelvin. But what I liked the most of the movie which sealed my fate into seeing it, was the Enterprise's design from the very first trailer. It had more features of the Refit/1701-A which lead me to believe it was going to be a Hybrid of both the TOS and TMP ships. Which I loved. But what confused me the most was Engineering. There was no order in the way it was designed in my opinion.

Well I gotta go. Gotta wake up before she does. Gonna make her some breakfast. Ill talk to all of you later.

[*Jess♥]

i wasn't too thrilled to be honest.

at the start of it i thought it was prety good, but towards teh end, it became more of a role call - explosion -

alternate universe

parody.

actually, at the end part of the movie, i was thinking less 'star trek' and more 'galaxy quest'.

i was puzzled as to why the ship was different, as this is supposed to be the exact same ship from the original series. but this was obviously totally different in design and also the insides were totally different, since when did ship builder become so careless that they left everything open and neglected to fit walls in engineering sections. since when ws teh design of the original series era, looking more like teh design of 50 years later.

i was half expecting them to say, this is a initial design they were trying out. i half expected at the end, the force of the singularity to strip away that stupid body moulding and reveal the proper shape underneath.

but no. this is so far removed from the original trek design, this is nothing like trek design that i know of.

after learning that this is now a

diffrent alternate reality

it no longer seemed to matter what happened. there was no consequence to any of teh characters I knw from star trek so what do i care what happens?

out of all star trek movies i have seen, this is THE WORST at being star trek. it's not a terrible movie in it's own rite, it's not amazing, but i did find it made me a little sleepy. so it's not a terrible movie, it's just a absolutely awful star trek movie.

I'm not a trekkie though. don't misunderstand. I'm not out for blood. but i have watched every episode of every season of every series except for the original series. (i'm almost a third of teh way through watchingt that now)

i at least expect things to remain faithful, this is not faithful IMO.

[Matt Bellamy]

i at least expect things to remain faithful, this is not faithful IMO.

I suspect you never read anything about it before you saw it?

It was meant to be a relaunch. And it had plenty of "Faithful" moments and aspects, but as many said beforehand, "This isn't your fathers Star Trek" It was an alternate time line, thus it could have happened completely different... and as we found out, certain things did start out completely different, right from the get go hen the Kelvin incident occurred. The ship looking updated is something one should expect, especially since every new movie that re-envisions things these days tend to do that as well.

I personally liked it. They used time travel in a much different way than they did in the past, and IMO ended up with a pretty good ending... even if the plot was kind of thin on the Romulans part.

I think my favorite character tough, was Karl Urban as Leonard "Bones" McCoy. He just played him so well.

[LordSpleach]

I liked it. Definately took a risk with the Trekkies and you can tell this was made so non-trekkies could enjoy. And Ryuki, this movie had quite a few faithful even if

it's an alternate reality

. Come on, they killed off a red shirt, characters used some of their classic lines, they were portrayed well, Chekov had problems with his accent, Kirk was hitting on the ladies, and besides I want Sulu's sword.

[*Jess♥]

woah, hold on, I didn't say it didn't have anything that remained faithful.

I was referring to the designs.

I can appreciate many of the other stuff, it just kinda got lost as teh film drew to a close.

I loved the opening of the movie.

and no, I didn't read anything about this. I had no idea about the design and the story.

but i should point out.. adding in some incidentals does not make something faithful. I mean the incidental event of having a random redshirt getting killed.. not really significant. there were many things in this that fit with characters and events etc, this was in a way 'homage' to the original series, not sticking with it. the changes they have made, remove it from the original in a way that it cannot be considered the same. I ws reading an article on ex-scientia website and the guy said pretty much all the things i was thinking.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles...ise_comment.htm

I know some people might make the mmistake of thinking i'm some trekie or a purist or whatever.. but no, I'm not being unreasonable, when i see a film called "star trek" I expect star trek, but this is "star trek - alternate universe" . for anybody who has no presuppositions, this is very jarring and leaves an odd taste in the mouth. it's like eating something labelled potatoes, and finding out that it is actually sweet potato.

[*Jess♥]

now I think about it, I'm thinking it can be considered an affront to all things star trek.

the reason I say this is because of the choice to call it 'star trek'. since people refer to 'star trek', the original series, as 'TOS' the creators of this movie are going along with such complete arrogance to set this film on a pedestal above the oproginal series by calling it 'star trek'.

(I shaln't call it star trek, I'll call it star trek XI. or jj trek.)

I think this is insulting.

this is teh kind of film that people will love, but after a couple of months or years it will be forgotten.

gene ropddenberry left a legacy. this was a series that spanned 3 seasons and a further series that spanned 7 seasons spread over 40 years... each story in this is designed to teach a lifes lesson. this film did a great job of creating a facsimile of the original series, but it will never surpass it. it became popular for a reason. I can still watch it today for a reason. (I NEVER watch old stuff, i find it annoying)

having never seen the original series, I find that i can watch and enjoy it in a way I never can with any other old series.

it seems to me the hole idea of this film is to wipe teh slate clean and start again. essentially it's saying that all of the 40 years of star trek is just 'not good enough'. jj abrams is in effect, pissing all over gene roddenberry's grave.

I thik it's the title that has got me thinking this way more than anything. it's beyond arrogant. I don't even think there's a word to describe how that seems to me.

I mean, galaxy quest parodied a lot about star trek and things like that. i loved it. but it's like this film is trying to REPLACE all that has been so far.

I guess how i feel about this film, is the same as how i would feel about a person who came along, looked at a picasso in an art gallery and took it down and put their own version in its place.

once again, I wouldn't be up in arms over it, I don't think al lthese things are sacred, I would just think it to be very insulting.

[Matt Bellamy]

About my first post, I didn't mean to come off as attacking like, was just wondering if indeed you thought otherwise about the intended idea behind the movie.

However, you seem to be taking this movie much more seriously than intended.

That being said... I think you are in the general minority of Star Trek fans who think this movie is bad. ( Hell, where I live, we have a town called Vulcan, yes, named after the Vulcan homeworld, where it is literally one of the best Star Trek fan places to go in the world... and they all loved the movie). But, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Thus, I am eagerly awaiting the official announcement of a sequel.

Though, I have to think that because of how the Star Trek TV series ended up, some people who are die-hard tv series fans, rather than the movie fans, can seem disappointed. The writing in the TV series was so stunted by Rick Berman ( yes, I am not a fan of his), that the series ended up stagnating into formulaic plots lines. Only Voyager was able to move a bit away from this, but still suffered greatly.

I might suggest any Trek fan listen to this interview... especially the parts about Trek. His personal story is also really good ( and quite quite funny), but the truths he reveals about the Trek set really open ones eyes, and once you look back, you can see it in the series.

http://geekson.com/archives/archiveepisode...isode111406.htm

It's in MP3 format too.

[*Jess♥]

yes, I think the fact that i have kinda approached star trek in reverse may confuse things somewhat. I have been exposed to hte star trek films my whole life and i always detested them. then recently i started watching, starting with hte next generation and only now moving onto the original series.

however, If i look at it from the angel of TOS, moving onweard toward 'enterprise', I think i can see why some people might celebrate this... because i know that many original fans detested enterprise.

of course there is teh factor that I am a designer and i did focus very much on the set and ship designs.

[*Jess♥]

I would be very happy if the producers of this new star trek film could furnish it with the same love and dedication that the producers of traditional star trek.

what worries me is that this seems like a one-off thing. if this were a series, I would be far more willing to accept it. it's just that this seems to me like throwaway entertainment.

I know star trek has ended.

In my mind, I have had closure for the star trek universe, in the form of the quote that now takes it's place in my signature

" If there is one ideal that the Federation holds most dear it is that all men... all races can be united. What better example than a Starfleet captain standing in the Romulan Senate. Nothing would make me more proud than to take your hand in friendship... in time... when that trust has been earned."

the romulans were introduced in the early episodes of the original series and now that they have had closure in this respect in hte movie nemesis, I felt that star trek was finished.

I had the impression that this movie was supposed to be a celebration of star trek, but now i know it isn't a celebration of star trek in the way i expected. instead it is a money making scheme. it's fine, this appeals to people in a different way, but I do not feel that this fits in with the franchise I have known.

it's new it's different, not to be compared to the original. it has different sensibilities.

the traditional star trek model, relies on sound scientific reasoning, and good consistent design. this new star trek seems to focus more on hte characters and on action.

for example, federation starships have never had an open and industrial look to the engineering section. even in the 'ancient' times of 'enterprise', the warp core was compact and the room was enclosed with solid walls.

a federation bridge has always been open and accessible with unobtrusive displays.

with regards to science, I found the remark by scotty to be particularly stupid , he was surprised that space was moving and not the ship, which is ridiculous since that's the whole basis for warp travel. for such a guy who was working on such advanced things to do with transporters, to suggest he didn't know that is just ridiculous.

[Guest Dr. DekaRed]

regarding those awaiting the announcement of the sequel... all the main cast have signed on for another two movies, but apparently this is standard.

personally i really enjoyed this movie, but then again, i enjoy most of the movies, even if half of them are rubbish, i still enjoy them. i haven't seen as many of the series as ryuki, but i have seen plenty enough. i enjoyed this as an homage to the original, i don't think it was trying to be a remake. if it was, then i could see some people's problems with it, but it was purely an homage. a lot of franchises have had reboot's, and changed design's, ideas, etc, and have had success. it is perfectly fine to think of this as "star trek AU", in fact i would of preferred it if it was called this, but then again that would give away some of the plot.

anyway, here is a little something, about when the writers met with leonard nimoy about the part. bear in mind he has turned down many spock roles before, due to unhappiness with the scripts or storyline. in fact, he wasn't going to appear at all in the dropped "star trek - phase 2".

Abrams and the writers met Nimoy at his house; writer Roberto Orci recalled the actor gave a "'Who are you guys and what are you up to?' vibe" before being told how important he was to them. He was silent, and Nimoy's wife Susan Bay told the creative team he had remained in his chair after their conversation, emotionally overwhelmed by his decision after turning down many opportunities to revisit the role. Had Nimoy disliked the script, production would have been delayed for it to be rewritten. He was "genuinely excited" by the script's scope and its detailing of the characters' backstories, saying, "We have dealt with Spock being half-human, half-Vulcan, but never with quite the overview that this script has of the entire history of the character, the growth of the character, the beginnings of the character and the arrival of the character into the Enterprise crew."

[*Jess♥]

I'm not doing this just to complain about the movie, but I do think the ship design could be better.

so I did a couple of edits to bring it more in line with the original design.

just to see what it would look like.

and i think it's quite nice.

from the first time i saw their new design, i thought the engineering section was just too far forwards.

also, i thought that the bulky naycelles were very ugly. and lastly, I disliked the change of colours.

so here you go, and lets see what you think.

remember, this is supposed to be the original enterprise, not the refit that was featured in the motion picture.

[*YoungGuyver]

You know Ryuki, you feel about this Star trek how I feel about bayformers.

What is interesting is that you are referring so much to engineering design. That they don't have enough walls in engineering? Startrek started as an underbudget tv show with small sets. When they did the first motion picture, if you look down the warp core in engineering, it horizontally goes down all the length of the ship. It may not have been executed as gloriously as this, but they tried. When Kirk first came aboard, we saw the shuttle bay from the front end of the inside, a multi-level facility, that even had turbolift tubes extending through it. Granted, in movie five, the chopped it in half. It would have been great to see the insides of the main shuttle bay on next gen, that takes up a full four decks, and wraps around the innards of the saucer section. A pity that we never got to see that.

I liked how this captains chair still had the same black square cushions. That the helm had those angled light bars over the console instead of the microphone lamp. The bridge is still pretty much a circle, with everyone is pretty much the same location. What I really liked were the transparent water lines! Damn that is a great idea. You can see the flow, and where potential clogs are! So useful! But I will agree with you, from the outside, the engineering looks way too far forward. It looks gimpy. Though some shots of the movie look fantastic, where it's rising out of Titan's atmosphere. Nice.

All in all, it was far more faithful to to star trek than bayformers was to Transformers. Checkov acted like Checkov, while Iron hide acted like Sun streaker. They referenced the original timeline with Kirk asking if he knew is father and everything. The biggest part I didn't like was with the swelling of hands. A little too much humor, but ok.

[*Jess♥]

what i was referring to with the engineering area, is the way it seemed naked.

it had steel girder like structures and looked like they had just decided not to put walls inbetween them.

looking at starship designs throughout star trek, you see that engineering is the home of the computer. also, most everything is controlled by the computer and the walls are used to house electronic circuits, computer consoles and conduits etc. this engineering looked more like something from a borg cube rather than a federation ship. it was bare and skeleton like.

apart from the issues with normal federation aesthetics, it's bad starship design anyway.

a starship is a strcuture designed to operate in space, therefore good design includes many bulkheads and many opportunities to seal off areas incase of hull breach.

it just seemed very out of place.

well it wasn't featured very heavily anyhow and i have only seen it once. that was just my first impression. in my view, engineering section of a federation ship should not have girder like structures and/or framework.

i understand what you say about bayformers... but i do think it's not really the same. transformers has had many different series and they have re-written that story many times. star trek on the other hand has always had a very solid continuity. all the series and all the films have always stuck with the same continuity, the same basic aesthetics etc. it's a bit of a cheap shot to change somethig so radically and not even make it clear. i think it would have been a lot less of a affront if the film maker had made it clear that this was not a historical recollection.

actualy by my own standard of what i said there, transformers was pretty bad. since it called itself 'transformers', not 'transformers alien lookig robots'

so in that respect it's the same thing.

but well, the traioler of transformers made it clear that the designs were so radically different.

I think the trailers for this film have been very misleading in that respect.

[*YoungGuyver]

I thought it was interesting that in trek 2, they mentioned how Kirk 'cheated' on his Kobiashi Maroo test; and in this one, they showed him 'cheating' on his kobiashi maru test. It's interesting to see how a young Kirk reacts to things, especially when this version grew up without a father. Sulu is still a fencer, though has a nicer sword (Man I want that!)

Remember in Insurrection, the open girder work in the Captain's Yacht? Girders make more sense in 'engineering' than they do there. True, they probably should have added a few more bulkheads, but the ship hasn't even been chrisoned yet.

[*Jess♥]

do you mean this?

I'm sorry, I do not remember a part in insurrection with a girder like structure.

I don't doubt what you say, i just don't remember.

i can kinda acknowledge the ship perhaps not being christened yet, i guess they were all rushing out to get to that place.

i didn't get the impression anything was still under construction, but it is possible.

[LordSpleach]

Ryuki, you're focusing way too much on the ship's looks. And the series needed a reboot anyway considering they auctioned off ALL the props and costumes from The Originals Series to Enterprise.

[ParaParaJMo]

I thought this movie was ok, but will never be near the league of The Wrath of Khan.

I hope they don't dare replace Ricardo Montabloan

[*Jess♥]

Ryuki, you're focusing way too much on the ship's looks. And the series needed a reboot anyway considering they auctioned off ALL the props and costumes from The Originals Series to Enterprise.

Why would you say such a thing? for some people, certain things are important.

i'm focusing on the ship design because it is something that has been subjected to a lot of attention over the past of this franchise.

for a film to stand up to scrutiny, it must have integrity.

how would you feel if they made a guyver film and did something like making his head spike flat against his head..?...

more seriously though, what if they did make a guyver film and changed the fundamental design of the guyver. like this . you wouldn't be happy, would you?

I concentrate on these things because i work in the same field. I judge these people by how well they do their job.

[durendal]

I do seem to notice that when Hollywood does a prequel of an existing franchise, the technology from the past seems to be much more hi-tech compared to those on the original incarnations, which is supposedly the future. This is probably due to newer filming technology being used. But I still haven't watch Star Trek so I can't really comment. Just sharing an observation.

[*Jess♥]

i managed to get a screenshot of the engineering section.

now, what i want to say is, can you tell me, if you did not know where this screenshot was from, what would you identify it as?

because i would identify it as a generic industrial plant.

this screenshot could be from terminator 2.

it could be from anything.

that is why i dislike the engineering section design. because i don't consider it to be good design at all.

especially when you compare to what star trek has already established. look at the following images, that show clearly that the different interiors of different ships are unique and identifiable.

[LordSpleach]

Ryuki, they never changed the fundamentals of the ship design and more importantly the characters. Ryuki, the characters is what Star Trek is all about not ship design. While you do have a point with the first live-action Guyver movie(how dare you mention its existence), but the difference is the Guyver had more of a focus on the Guyver itself as well as the Zoanoids. Character driven too, but the monsters were put more in the forefront. Star Trek episodes(TOS and TNG) was always character driven and in fact reflected the times of when the episodes were produced.

Just by focusing purely on ship design, it just seems like you were missing the point. The first live-action Guyver messed up not only on costume designs, but the general essence of the series.

[*Jess♥]

first off lordspleach, you have no right to tell me what the main point of the show is. for a start there are two ways of looking at it, the creators intent and the viewers perspective. since you have neither the viewers perspective (my perspective) or teh creators intent, you are way out of line with that statement. you are welcome to add your opinion, but i would appreciate it if you would stop discounting my opinion.

now to move on from that, i would like to point out that the enterprise is a character in the show.

need i point out teh many times the characters have had a rapport with hte different systems of teh ship. scotty loves his engine, captain kirk had a very witty rapport with his computer when it decided to start calling him 'dear' .

in fact the character of janice rand was meant to illustrate this by her conversation with kirk "i only ever wanted you to look at my legs" but kirk was in love with the ship. it has ALWAYS been about the ship. it's iconic. yes the human(oid) characters were very important but that is how they brought the ship to the forefront. the ship had no real voice of it's own, so it was up to hte characters to bring out the character of the ship.

now i could argue with you for a very long time about how important the ship actually is, and how important the design is, but i would actually prefer if you respect my opinion instead of attacking me.

just to elaborate on this a bit more, to miss out the significance of certain parts such as ship design and also integrity of scientific knowledge etc, is to severely damage the integrity of the universe.

it seems to me jj abrams has used this alternate universe as a kind of get out of jail free card. he has used it as a way to waive responsibility to get continuity correct. the problem here is, he has been so incredibly useless as to even ignore the integrity in his own movie. such as the glaring plot hole of scotty having no idea of the fundamental basics of warp travel. if you really want to move away from the ship design, I could always find some other area to illustrate the fundamental problem here.

I am using the ship design as an example to show how the universe is not consistent. this film does not make sense. as i think about it more and more, it makes less and less sense.

[LordSpleach]

OK.........you're taking this a little too personally. I'm not trying to attack your opinion. I'm just saying that I feel the focus on ship design is a little odd. I'm just going to walk away now.

[*Jess♥]

OK.........you're taking this a little too personally. I'm not trying to attack your opinion. I'm just saying that I feel the focus on ship design is a little odd. I'm just going to walk away now.

why would i take it personally, you specifically said "Ryuki, the characters is what Star Trek is all about not ship design" and "Just by focusing purely on ship design, it just seems like you were missing the point."

and by saying so you are implying that my perspective is invalid.

if you want to lay out the merits of the movie, no problem. if you want to say how you think the ship is good design etc, no problem.

if you want to say "i don't think hte ship design is important really, but i do like the character ... and how he ....." no problem.

it seems like you are taking a swipe at me with those comments.

[durendal]

Ok, I think this conversation is getting way out of hand. Break it up, the two of you. We are here to discuss the Movie Star Trek, and not about arguing whether "my theory is better than yours" or not. Just to teach you guys a lesson, I'm going to close this thread!

Oh wait.... I'm not a mod

Anyway, why don't we just get along. I think everyone is just tired. Step back, take a good rest and come back here in the morning.

I for one find it difficult to swallow a Star Trek movie being an alternate reality. It's so un-Star Trek like. Anyway, since I'll be watching the movie this coming weekend, perhaps you guys can prep me on what my mindset should be. Should I expect it be the mind-blowing, or just expect the worst?