American Comics

[Salkafar]

I wouldn't bother with Chaos War. I'll spoil you if you want.

Brightest Day... well... I have no idea where this is going. The Entity (Life itself) is looking for a new host, but there is as yet no indication exactly why this is. With about five more issues to go, things are still far from clear.

Also, Hawkman and Hawkwoman are dead. Permanently this time, it would seem, since they broke the curse that bound them together and regained their lives, only to have them taken away again when they refused to play ball with the Life entity.

They should have known: If a big White Man tells you you should do something and you protest, he'll get all pissy.

Nevertheless this was pretty damn dismissive and mean, it seems.

[durendal]

I wouldn't bother with Chaos War. I'll spoil you if you want.

Don't mind if you do. Please. Spoil me.

(remember to use spoiler tags, others might not want to know what happens)

[Salkafar]

Chaos War:

Well, I don't know how much you know. Take it from the top...

Quite a while ago, in the original 'Ares' mini series, a villainous god was introduced: Amitsu-Mikaboshi. In Japanese mythology, Mikaboshi is the god of Evil, or rather, the embodiment of the void before creation. Un-existence. In the mini, he killed Zeus before being banished. A little while later there was "World War Hulk" in which Hercules, the demi-god, played a minor part. In the aftermath, "Incredible Hulk" was renamed "Incredible Hercules". It was a good, a very good run (in my opinion) and if you haven't read this series, do so. Anyway, sometime later there was the Skrull invasion, and Hercules was despatched to defeat the Skrull gods together with a team of Earth's gods - Himself, the Canadian Snowbird, the Eternal Ajak, Demogorge the God-eater and Mikaboshi, the so-called God Squad. They were successful, but Demogorge and Mikaboshi seemingly died. However, it was later revealed that Mikaboshi, a shapeshifter, had changed places with Sl'Gurt, the Skrull goddess, who also was a shapeshifter. He took possession of the army of slave gods the Skrulls had amassed (over the millennia, the Skrull nation had conquered hundreds of worlds, and each time, their religious caste had co-opted their native gods and brought them under the rule of the Skrull deities. I have no idea how this could possibly work, but there you go). In the period that followed, Hercules continued to hero on, while others spun plans in which he played a part. He discovered a conspiracy by his mother, Hera, to create a new universe in her own image, perfect and orderly, which would be realized by unmaking the existing universe. Hercules managed to defeat her plan, although she and Zeus (who had been returned to life as a small boy a while before) perished and Hercules seemingly died as he sealed off the artificial universe Hera had made to save our own. Amadeus Cho, however, refused to accept the death of his friend. And when he set out on a quest to stop the machinations of the evil Vali Halfling, he ended up with the power of a Skyfather - the knowledge and might of beings like Odin, Vishnu or Zeus himself. He managed to use this immense power to free Hercules, who indeed still had been alive but trapped in the lifeless, empty artificial universe. But he also realized that he, a mortal born, was unfit and unequipped to handle this power... so he passed it on to Hercules instead. Hercules now possessed the power of a Skyfather. A little while ago, Amatsu-Mikaboshi started to move. He deployed his army of gods, who had become little more than puppets to his will, and gradually, but quickly, expanded his influence - renaming himself the Chaos King. He wanted nothing less than to negate existence itself - to return the universe to the state of nonexistence it had enjoyed before Creation. The speed of his advance increased geometrically, because the more he conquered, the more his power grew. He invaded the Dreamworld, slew Nightmare and used the power over dreams he thus gained to cast all living mortals into a death-like sleep. He invaded the Underworld and released all its demons and dead and set them upon those that continued to resist his will. He invaded the Overworld and conquered the gods themselves, until only Earth was left. There, the remaining gods made their final stand. Hercules, more powerful than ever, ultimately embraced his divine might fully and managed to fight the Chaos King to a standstill - here, near Earth, near the place where he was born (which makes zero sense), he was less powerful. Ultimately, Amadeus Cho realized that the only way to get rid of the Chaos King for good was to make him believe he had what he wanted. So they shunted him into the empty void of the universe which had been created by Hera, where he of course found nothing but nothingness, and sealed it behind him. The Chaos War was over, and Athena stated that Hercules now could re-build the universe; it had been stripped of many gods and demons. Many planets lay completely in ruin, and the old order was gone. He, the conqueror of the Chaos King, could be the new God. Instead, Hercules expended all his Skyfather power at once to restore everything to the way it had been before the Chaos War begun, excepting that Mikaboshi wasn't around to cause trouble anymore. So now he no longer is a god, or even a demi-god - now he has no more power than any mortal, and it is as if the whole thing never happened. Oh, and the Greek Gods are back, with some really bad attitudes. The end.

[durendal]

Thanks for the spoilers. Looks like I'll be skipping over Chaos war. Fear itself looks interesting though. Can't wait for it to finish so I can start reading it.

I'm also very interested in DC's flashpoint. I'm waiting for it to finish so I can get the whole story in one batch.

[durendal]

Currently reading Fear Itself, and I find the story to be quite wanting. I mean, the concept itself is interesting, but the tie-in comics are rather bland, and I almost fell asleep reading the tie-in comics. Please do tell me it gets better. After the anti-climactic Chaos War, I thought Fear Itself would fill the empty gap that Chaos war left. Sure, there are some significant developments in Fear Itself, but the journey of reading through it all to arrive at the end of the story is looking like a chore.

[Salkafar]

In my opinion, the tie-ins - specifically, 'Home front' and 'Journey into Mystery' - were the interesting part of 'Fear itself'. Significant developments? Yes, if someone steals your car and runs it into a tree, then I would describe that as a 'significant development'.

Matt Fraction is a hack, and maybe it's my natural paranoia, but it's like he intends to slowly destroy the Marvel Universe. He has damaged Iron Man and Thor (how much, you will still see, but his first story arc was abject crap), pissed on War Machine while constantly trying to foist his pet project Iron Fist and the Immortal Weapons on pretty much everybody (seriously, those prats are popping up everywhere and they seem completely uninteresting). I don't understand why they allow him to do what he does. Incriminating photographs? Mob contacts?

And of course, the "Everything you thought you knew is a lie" is so cheap anyway. And kind of rude.

Marvel's vision of Thor, and Odin and Asgard were creations of Jack Kirby. The thought of this undertalented, overrated con artist being in charge of that makes my blood boil.

The fear angle - which is how it was marketed in the first place - was underdeveloped. None of the heroes got to face their personal demons as had been claimed in the advert campaign, despite some half-hearted attempts which remained unpainted. Fear was not used to much as straight-up violence. And the worst and most gruesome act of violence of all - the murder of every single person in Paris - was never reflected on. You never saw the reaction of anybody in Europe. Was anything happening in China? How about Russia, or Japan... who do we have in Africa? I don't know, and we never will, since it all went down in the USA. Hey, how about a 48-page one-shot - an anthology book consisting of twelve 4-page stories, each about a civilian character somewhere on Earth experiencing it? Call it 'Fear itself: Global impact' but make the stories really intimate. But no. Um... how about a five-part mini called 'Fear itself: Heroes' and another one called 'Fear itself: Villains' about ten heroes and villains, each experiencing it in their own way? No?

I thought Cul (that's the Serpent's real name) was the God of Fear. He doesn't seem to know his business that well, considering he preyed on base violence.

Not that this was such an original idea anyway. Hello? The Fear Lords?

http://marvel.wikia....%28Earth-616%29

And Odin was presented as a complete ass. There's a tendency to display the Skyfathers as tyrants these days. Odin used to be this grand, heroic, just and even gentle father figure. Now? "The Serpent is back. Let's destroy humanity before he can use their fear."

And everybody, and I mean everybody, considered the final issue of 'Fear itself' a letdown even in that context.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Salkafar

[durendal]

[sarcasm]Wow, so I guess you really loved that series didn't you [/sarcasm].

I do get your idea about the writing style. for me, there was too much dialogue and not enough action. It's the dialogue that makes me sleepy. You are right about the fear factor. The only hint I ever saw of fear affecting the heroes was on Spiderman and his fears about the safety of May. Only to see a cab driver being immune to the influences of fear. Now that's just nuts. I would imagine that every heroes have something to fear and that fear being used to crush them. I would have believed that Nick Fury being able to withstand fear, since he didn't even flinch when Phobos used his powers on him, saying he'd seen too much to have anything more to fear.

I hated that fact that Odin would rather raze earth to defeat the serpent than face them head on. And they call themselves God? And it took mere mortal men to defeat an adversary he feared so much? for shame.

I do appreciate the angle of the average joe. Things like the recession affecting everyone, and how the heroes have changed their lives to the worse. Though I have seen the initial reaction, I have yet to see the repercussions the event would have on the normal people.

[durendal]

Something about Bucky while reading fear itself.

After reading how "Bucky" died at the hands of Sin and how lame the scenario was, I thought they're finally putting bucky to rest. But no, now they made him into a semi-super soldier thanks to Nick Fury. No wonder there was no drama during his death. They intended him to become the Winter Soldier. Bah!

[durendal]

Ok, I'm done reading Fear Itself. Well, that was rather disappointing. Not to mention a lot of inconsistencies with some of the tie-in books. The only redeeming shot I saw was Cap picking up Thor's hammer. Now you can add that to Cap's list of epicness.

[Salkafar]

He already lifted it before. I would really, seriously like to see Odin's definition of "Worthy".

Also: you think you hated it? I am an Iron Man fan. Play with that for a while...

[durendal]

I do find it strange that Stark would pick up the profanity of the elves. You gotta admit, him diving into that molten uru thingamajig was kinda cool. And despite his absence in most of the events, he did managed to tip the scale with the new shiny weapons he brought, at the cost of his dignity or whatever was left of it.

I'm also torn if splitting Banner and Hulk was a good idea. Sure, Banner has been trying for decades trying to get rid of the Hulk, and now that he's rid of him, he's obsessed in getting him back. What gives? I don't like the direction banner is going. Now it looks like Hulk was the sane one after all.

[Salkafar]

I hate the idea, as well. It's just a cheap ploy -'panic football' as we say. They're trying to follow up years of very strong storytelling and now they're going into a completely new direction.

Except of course that Banner and the Hulk have been physically separated at least twice before and in both cases, the Hulk started dying.

The Hulk the sane one? The previous volume of the comic ended with the assertion that Banner and the Hulk are now one and the same entity. So, hey, let's start with having the Hulk hating Banner and just expelling him, and Banner desperately trying to get him back.

There is no Hulk, really... originally, the idea was that the Hulk really is Banner, but gets dumber so the physical difference throws him off and hates his weakness as Banner so much he denies the connection. Very much like dr.Jekyll and mr.Hyde, plus Frankenstein.

Just like Tom Waits said "There is no Devil, it's just God when he drinks" I say "There is no Hulk, it's just Banner when he's angry".

But now it's like the Hulk was Banner's moral rudder all this time. Bollocks. The Hulk is destructive. The Hulk is a monster. The Hulk is a bomb. He is freedom from moral constraints, because he is powerful.

It was only later when the whole "innocent savage" thing was introduced that the issue got muddied. Later, it was made worse when they added the "multiple personalities" thing. Actually made sense in the context of Banner's traumatic childhood. Now, the Gray Hulk was mr.Hyde... and the Green Hulk was the inner child.

It's why I like Ultimate Hulk, or rather the Ultimates version. He's not Bambi with muscles for chrissakes. He is a MONSTER. A man without limits, but with a gigantic neurosis and feelings of inadequacy. BE AFRAID.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Salkafar

[odin]

I did not like fear itself, it was an interesting concept but the ending left me indifferent, they treated bucky like crap (seriously that death of his came out of left field) and they where just using parts of the Ragnarok prophecy by the book instead of doing their own thing, it all just felt weird and frankly I could not suspend my disbelieve on this one, where in a world that it is constantly invaded by larger than life enemies only in this one everybody starts going in a panic including the heroes? because they are facing a god? big deal, the avengers face those every other week, that is the reason why they formed the team in the first place, to face enemies that you can't defeat alone, unless it states that the serpent had the power to cause fear and not just feed of of it that would explain a bit but it was never stated as far as I'm concerned and most of the heroes have already gotten a costumed to fear inducing enemies, it is all just a bit hard to swallow and frankly the fights where not even that epic with the exception of Cap using Mjölnir, I frankly preferred spider island more than Fear itself.

[Salkafar]

That's because Spider-Island was funny, exciting, had a good concept, was focused, fast and directed and actually did stuff... and for such a low price: Only Manhattan involved.

Fear Itself was pretentious crap. How much you want to bet it's gonna go away in a few months and nobody will ever mention it again? Even Bucky didn't really die, he just became a secret agent again. And even Thor isn't really dead! He's just in another dimension.

[durendal]

Given a lot of crappy storylines recently, got anything good to read? There seems to be something cooking with the cosmic scene and I haven't been able to get any information about it. The thanos imperative might not have the best plot, but its ending moved me.

[odin]

Dunno, I'm currently in browsing through series, reading Daredevil, Moon Knight and Iron Fist on the Marvel side, as for DC I'm sticking with Aquaman, Demon Knights, Superboy, Action comics, Batman and Robin and maybe Teen Titans

[Matt Bellamy]

Given a lot of crappy storylines recently, got anything good to read? There seems to be something cooking with the cosmic scene and I haven't been able to get any information about it. The thanos imperative might not have the best plot, but its ending moved me.

There was mention about Nova and Star Lord not being dead and all, but yeah... The only thing we've heard from Marvel is the whole "X-Men vs the Avengers" crap.

I felt that despite the good ending of The Thanos Imperitive, it seemed to forget everything that happened before it... Like Darkhawk... ( Another old favorite of mine brought back, but tossed away).

I think Marvel needs to stop these crossovers and let individual comics do more than 1 or two story arcs on their own before they start shaking things up again. Ever since Civil War ( I think that was the first of the current ones... Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, Fear Itself) there has been non stop super crossovers, where individual comics get maybe 6 issues to do something on their own, then they are thrust back into it.

Sure, it's what basically made the Cosmic universe awesome... Annihilation was epic... But it got steadily less epic afterwards... mainly because... Really, who cares about the Inhumans? lol

*Edit*

Check that... Nova is seemingly returned in "Point One"... Guess it came out in early Novemeber...?

*Edit 2*

Check that, it's an alternate reality Nova. Costume does look a little better than I thought originally... Just still not as cool as Nova Prime's.

Ugly new costume too it looks like...

[durendal]

I'm done reading AVX, I must say, I quite liked it. Better than Fear Itself though I've only read the core series of AVX. It seems like Marvel keeps changing the status quo, and then only to bring it back where it was. Let's see if they will be keeping what they changed here. I'm currently following AVX consequences, and does this mean that our fearless mutant leader has turned into a villain on his own volition? Influences from Cosmic entities does not count, do they?

As for DC, after the new 52, I completely stopped reading any DC comics. I read Justice League once in a while, only because Jim Lee was drawing it.

[odin]

Has anybody been reading recent comics? I totally recommend Daredevil and Venom for the marvel side as well as Amazing spider-man since it is ending soon, dunno how to feel about the series that will replace it called "superior spider-man" (stupid name I know) , this spider-man will not be peter parker (if you have been reading amazing you can guess why) and will be more "dark and edgy" than before ...(as if spider-man was not dark enough) it only makes me feel like they want to turn spider-man into Batman (which he already is minus the brooding...well not as much as batman) also this new spider-man will have a relationship with Mary Jane which makes me a bit angry, dunno why they have to keep separating Peter from M.J....well it is all Quezada's fault thinking that you can't make stories with Spider-man if they are together which I call B.S. if anything it creates better stories and makes the character grow up with the audience, ever since one more day peter has been stuck in the 60's , the stories are great but the character itself has not changed, I will keep reading spider-man anyways since he was the main reason why i started to draw but I still don't like what they have done with him, they want to make a dark and edgy spider-man when they already have 2 called Venom and Scarlet Spider, they really need to make something else with the original spider-man.

On the DC side the Superman family is doing great, enjoying every issue of Superman, Supergirl and Superboy. the batman family is...ok i guess, the current story arc is not my cup of tea for the mere fact that they have made the Joker way to OP, I know that he is unpredictable considering his multiple personality disorder but this version of joker is a bit too much, nobody can touch him and considering who he is picking a fight it just a bit too much to swallow, I will continue reading it just because it left me enough interested to see what happens next. The Flash and Aquaman are great series as well, specially aquaman, I could care less for Justice League, the members are out of character and there is no consistency in the story which leaves me in a bad mood.

[durendal]

Ever since the new 52 started, I have a distaste for what they did to the DC universe. I mean, how many more times will they have to reset everything? I thought they resolved all these parallel universe with the countless Crisis they had, only to bring them back and then wipe them all out. I just don't get it. Flashpoint was great. I loved it. But after that, meh. I only read Justice League because it was drawn by Jim Lee. After he left the penciling duties, I stopped reading it.

As for Marvel, well, I'm quite happy with their direction. AVX was fun and I liked it. I'm a bit torn about bringing cable back minus the techno-virus. Never touched the spiderman issues as I'm more of an avengers/x-men reader.

I'm also interested in Spawn, but their comics has been elusive to me. I never did learn what happened to Al Simmons when he blew up his own head. The new spawn doesn't seem to be growing on me. I am following the Savage Dragon. It has pure and simple story telling which I really liked. No sub plots or any of that complicated stuff. Just plain story telling. And also the only remaining image comic that is still being drawn by one of the original founders.

[odin]

In my opinion I did not like AVX that much, Never did like the idea of heroes fighting heroes much less when they are supposed to be fighting something that is about to kill them all but it did resolve the House of M thing so it is a plus, on the other hand what happened to the professor on Uncanny avengers was just sickening.

[durendal]

...what happened to the professor on Uncanny avengers was just sickening.

*shudder* That I would have to agree. Dammit, at least give the guy some peace.

I don't see AVX as a heroes vs heroes deal, it's more like cosmic entity vs heroes. The other mutants did find the methods of the phoenix 5 to be somewhat excessive. This is reminiscent of the Dark Phoenix Saga. The phoenix entity did corrupt them and turned Cyclops into what he is today, I guess. I'm interested to see what young Scott has to say about adult Scott. I never liked Cyclops since after that whole the twelve incident with apocalypse. I hope there is someway to bring back the Scott Summers of old. Hopefully the young scott would knock some sense into his older self.

I'm wondering if you have any news of our cosmic adventurers. Thanos Imperative was the last I've ever heard of our so called guardians of the galaxy. I became a fan of Nova when I read the annihilation. Hopefully Marvel brings something like that again.

[odin]

On the marvel side I am currently reading Daredevil, Venom, Scarlet Spider and Spider-man regularly and Regular and new Avengers casually, I have never gotten into x-men for some reason I know what I know about them thanks to the animated series, I was reading Wolverine comics but got bored of it during the Romulus story arc, picked up the new Gambit solo comics but I did not like it that much although I like gambit, there are so many X-Men books that I don't know where to start, you mentioning young and old cyclops has already gotten me confused, last thing i read was Curse of the X-men where Jubelee is turned into a vampire and I turned into a cyclops fan on that story arc when it showed how awesome cyclops was with his strategies and being one step ahead of the vampires.

can't say much about any cosmic heroes although i read that Iron man will be joining the Guardians of the galaxy with an armor that he made during the AVX event it is called the godkiller armor.

[*PrimalNemesis]

Been a while since I really got into either Marvel or DC. The only American comic that I have really kept up with is Walking Dead. I use to read Spider-Man a lot when I was a kid. I really enjoyed what Marvel did with him during Civil War. I stopped reading cold turkey though after the whole One More Day scenario. Made me sick and extremely angry. To me it felt like Marvel took everything they did with Peter Parker up to that point and flushed it all down the toiled because they wanted to extend the longevity of their little cash cow. Spidey is a grown man now. I honestly believe it is time for him to gain some new responsibilities in the form of a full fledged family. The whole package! Wife and children! But we will not see this for a while now because Peter has made a deal with Mephisto to alter reality and history. I feel utterly betrayed by Marvel. They took one of their most beloved characters and robbed him of what he stood for. "With great power comes great responsibility" as the ole quote goes. How is Peter acting responsible by making a freaking deal with the devil to save his dear Aunt May? For heaven's sake! Late her die finally! She is probably the last anchor that is holding Peter back from being able to move on with his life. She has served her purpose. The only moral support Peter needed was from his wife Mary Jane. I do not hate Aunt May. I just think her usefulness as a character has finally come to an end. I want to see Spider-Man grow as a character. I want to see him take up the mantle of father and raise some spider-babies! I am sick to death of bachelor Peter Parker. I want to see a family man Spidey and what new challenges it will bring. There is no longer a need to keep Spider-Man young. If children of today want to see a younger Spider-Man they can go read all of the past anthologies that have been release over the years. It is time for Peter Parker to stop being Peter Pan. It is time for him to grow up and see the world from a whole new perspective!

I am truly sorry for the lengthy rant everyone. I am just really frustrated with how the American comic industry is being handled right at the moment. Also never been a real big fan of the Peter Parker/Mary Jane coupling. Always believed it should have been with Gwen Stacy. I am not going to complain though. I was very happy when Peter was married. I thoroughly enjoyed the idea that Spidey was finally settling down and starting a family. I really wanted to see how he would balance his hero life with his family's. Guess I will not see this happen for some time though.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Krucifer

[durendal]

Odin, the thing about cyclops is that he is really a cool guy, a level headed leader and probably a good role model.

All that changed when he merged with Apocalypse and the x-men had to yank him out by force to save him. Thus started the broody cyclops with the "end justifies the means" attitude. He turned into a cold blooded leader that re-formed the x-force into a black ops assassination group. In the new x-men story, Hank McCoy is dying, so he traveled back in time to the days when they were just starting out as x-men, convinced the young scott to talk some sense into the old scott who has been terrorizing cities in the name of saving a mutant.

Krucifer, blame it on Quesada for screwing with Spidey's relationship. I am also in the same opinion that Peter should have remained married to MJ. I actually though that there were hints that they would get back together after one more day. I mean, during that storyline, it hints that MJ knows Peter and is keeping something from him. I'm not a close follower on Spiderman, but can you give me an idea what conditions MJ whispered to Mephisto was?