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The Falcon and the Winter Soldier


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On 8/12/2021 at 1:41 AM, Larz Zahn said:

616 shield is actually a super adamantium(?) alloy that the recipe is lost to the ages. (If memory serves Its so super heavy that it took someone with strength and skill to catch and use it.)

The 616 shield is informally named "proto-adamantium", an alloy created accidentally by Myron McLain when he was trying to meld what Vibranium the USA had at the time with steel. Because of exhaustion he fell asleep at one point and when he woke up the elements had melded. He poured the mixture into the mold of a tank hatch cover (that's why it's that shape) but was unable to reproduce the process. Years later he did manage to create Adamantium, a steel alloy not incorporating Vibranium, which is almost as strong as the shield.  The shield is not extremely heavy.

Cap has on occasion wielded an adamantium shield during times when he lost the original; this shield was later given to John Walker.

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Ok this part I'm 99% confident in, lol. I did research after I watched the disney+ series. 

Cap asked Tony for help and he made the adamantium shield, but went thru his nuts iron wars arc and pissed cap off. So cap confronted Tony and returned the sheild. Then he, d-man, falcon and nomad were doing whatever they were doing and got in a tight spot, and black panther showed up in a wakanda jet. He helped them out of the jam, and it turned out that cap asked t'challa for a replacement sheild. Which is were the vibranium sheild came from. At this time cap was not cap America anymore, (who was John walker) and so d-man gave Steve Roger's the uniform that would end up in John walkers possession and become usAgent. 


I dont remember if Steve went by the captain or if he actually used usagent. I know that in a 3 way fight, cap took back the original shield and walker took the vibranium. If he swapped it for the adamantium one afterwards, I never read that issue.


I did a LOT of comic reading. A lot....


And sorry about the heavy shield misinformation. Somewhere in my head I had it as heavy. Do you think it was retconned?

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Very possibly. I once read an issue of 'Fantastic Four' where the twist turned out to be that the Ultron seen in that issue - who had transformed from an innocuous desktop computer - was not made of Adamantium like he usually is, because then Ben Grimm could not have carried him into the building. That always struck me as odd and out of place.

In any event, Captain America has no actual super-strength, just peak human strength.

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That is also dependant on the writer(going by feats)... I am not sure on this part but I remember reading somewhere that when he lost his strength back the 1st time,(Tony made him a suit armor he wore for a while while he lost it.) When he got it back he surpassed his 800lb limit and now he was amped to 1.5 tons.  But it he was always said to have peak human. Unfortunately I never read this issue.

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How many times has Steve Rogers lost the Super Soldier Serum and then regained it?  And then how many times has Captain America's shield been broken?  For the life of me, the writers can't seem to make up their minds about what will happen to Steve Rogers.  This is most likely the reason why it is so hard to determine what is the composition of the shield.  Retcons after retcons, it's insane how to keep up with its history.

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If you ask me a spidey question, im your guy... 

A cap question? Best I can do is guess...

Not counting issue long events where he loses his power and then gains it back in one or two issues... like a spell or power inhibitor,  I think only twice. Or more accurate to say, I can only remember him losing it twice. 

1st was he got caught in a chemical explosion, which reacted with the serum and burned it out if his system. He worked out to keep up his trench and eventually had to use a suit of armor before his body giving out totally. They fixed it by giving him a blood transfusion with the red skulls cloned body.


Second time a villain i dont know shot him with so etching that neutralized his serum and made him age to a 90 year old man. He staid that waybfor a loonngggg time. 

(Side note, he used the armored suit again to kick the crap outta Tony during the multiverse incursion arc.)

As a old man, many issues later, and real world years, he was in a prison break getting the mess kicked outta him by crossbones. Then a super powered girl who had the power of a cosmic cube offered to give him back his powers. 


There's a twist to how that ends too. 


I could be wrong, I don't follow cap that well and most of this is from memory. DISCLAIMER!

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Captain America's shield has broken several times.

On Battleworld during the original Secret Wars, by the power of the Beyonder wielded by Doctor Doom.

By a lingering weakness in the structure which was exacerbated by Klaw, the Master of Sound.

By Molecule Man, who simply desintegrated it (but, well, he's Molecule Man)

By the Serpent, Odin's evil brother, empowered by the fear of everybody in the world

"he used the armored suit again to kick the crap outta Tony"

I am sure he would have wanted to, but he could never have. The armor was years out of date, and Tony was wearing his most advanced armor to date. If they had not been crushed by a falling helicarrier, Tony would have crushed Cap.

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