ACTF Military

[McAvoy]

Something occured to me.

The war against Chronos can probably be compared to WW2.

With that in mind I was thinking about the cost of this war. First off on X Day, the US military was practically defeated. Maybe a few survivors like the USS Enterprise CVN-65 etc. But since the ACTF is geared towards mobile anti-zoanoid armor and particle cannons. Not planes or tanks. Or at least not that we have seen. It would be cool to read about converted Abrahams with mini particle cannons but that is a different matter.

Wolf armors cost between 10 to 20 million dollars each. Let's assume for the minute that all the armors cost that much. DoD for 2010 is 663.8 billion dollars. Naturally this broken down several ways such as pay, maintaince, contruction, operations, R&R etc. About roughly 77 billion dollars is spent on development and building of new military equipment.

In other words, if you do the math the ACTF on 2010 budget would only be able to fund between 3,850 to 7,700 to armors a year. This could be more or even less. I mean I doubt after the ACTF was able to recapture all the territory except for Arizona and Texas that the economy will bounce back. That's on the assumption that they use up that 77 billion for nothing but armor.

It would be safe to say that certain things like difference between the branches will be gone. So the combined budgets for all the branches of the military will be used. So you could have 283.3 billion dollars to spend on armor and other toys.

I think the ACTF armors are easily able to handle normal zoanoids, can stand toe to toe with lower hyper zoanoids and need to serious help with the higher ones. In 7 Days, 10,000 Bio Titans after a already huge battle took place was fielded by Chronos. Those 10,000 Bio Titans did not include the lower zoaforms either. The ACTF had 300 particle cannons, a dozen or so Guyvers and a undisclosed amount of armors. How they fielded a large amount of armors in short period of time is a different matter.

So i think the ACTF definitely has to have tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of these armors to stand up against Chronos. I don't mean just in the US but with the other countries as well. ACTF Canada, EDF and China, maybe Russia as well.

[WarriorZoalord]

if you remember, in the opening story, its said that the ACTF has an Unlimited Budget which means basically they get whatever they want (i mean whos to say the US actually spends money on the armors anyway) the prices listed i believe was for SELLING them to their allies.

[Sully]

if you remember, in the opening story, its said that the ACTF has an Unlimited Budget which means basically they get whatever they want (i mean whos to say the US actually spends money on the armors anyway) the prices listed i believe was for SELLING them to their allies.

I wouldn't get too bogged down in a Fan-fiction worlds enconomics.... Hate to break it to you all, but in the end the cash in your pockets is marely one persons idea of value for a survice. The USA being for awhile the only country out there can simply make up whatever it wants as the only free country. But overall to the actual govenment in the fan-fic if something costs 10Billion in the fan-fic v 15 million of whatever Unit they decide, it would most likely go down to labour time and resorces etc.

As for trading between nations... Basically I an't going to spend time making my fan-fcition work as an economics paper. This is a Guyver fan-fic, I'll make it semi realistic but don't expect the economics in the story to work 100% or Matt / Andre / Allen / James to understand it and apply it to their stories.

[OnyxPhoenix]

BWA HAHAHAHAHAHA......

Ah, politics and money. What a world.

[*zeo]

Also at war time, people tend to work for far less. The good old work or die or become a slave is a great motivator... Want a raise, welcome to the front lines

The biggest concern would be resources and especially food. Can't fight a war if you're starving to death and you can't make armors without materials needed to make them. Can worry about pay after the war is over...

[Zoaknight]

The first National Bank of Chronos never has any problems financing military operations

I wonder where Zeus Thunderbolt gets their funding....

[*zeo]

I wonder where Zeus Thunderbolt gets their funding....

Remember Agito use to work for Chronos... Even the equipment he used to create the Libertus and keep his Chronos scientist alive with his serum he acquired from Chronos... With the Gigantic he can just go shopping at Chronos warehouses

[Zoaknight]

Zeo wrote: Remember Agito use to work for Chronos... Even the equipment he used to create the Libertus and keep his Chronos scientist alive with his serum he acquired from Chronos... With the Gigantic he can just go shopping at Chronos warehouses

Bah, should have known, lousy bio boosted crook

[*zeo]

Bah, should have known, lousy bio boosted crook

Well remember Zeus Thunderbolt is basically a Guerrilla rebel force and one of the tactics of Guerrilla warfare is to seize or destroy enemy resources and in turn weaken the enemy, while making themselves stronger.

[McAvoy]

if you remember, in the opening story, its said that the ACTF has an Unlimited Budget which means basically they get whatever they want (i mean whos to say the US actually spends money on the armors anyway) the prices listed i believe was for SELLING them to their allies.

I wouldn't get too bogged down in a Fan-fiction worlds enconomics.... Hate to break it to you all, but in the end the cash in your pockets is marely one persons idea of value for a survice. The USA being for awhile the only country out there can simply make up whatever it wants as the only free country. But overall to the actual govenment in the fan-fic if something costs 10Billion in the fan-fic v 15 million of whatever Unit they decide, it would most likely go down to labour time and resorces etc.

As for trading between nations... Basically I an't going to spend time making my fan-fcition work as an economics paper. This is a Guyver fan-fic, I'll make it semi realistic but don't expect the economics in the story to work 100% or Matt / Andre / Allen / James to understand it and apply it to their stories.

The topic was originally posted as a observation on how many armors there should be to fight Chronos effectively, that there should be more mobile but weaker particle beam weapons etc. Aircraft should play a bigger part since practically only zoalords would be capable of catching a Mach 2 fighter.

Unfortunately this is what I get when I am drunk. I'm lucky that the whole posts doesn't look like a jumbled mess.

[Zoaknight]

McAvoy wrote: The topic was originally posted as a observation on how many armors there should be to fight Chronos effectively, that there should be more mobile but weaker particle beam weapons etc. Aircraft should play a bigger part since practically only zoalords would be capable of catching a Mach 2 fighter.

Unfortunately this is what I get when I am drunk. I'm lucky that the whole posts doesn't look like a jumbled mess.

Wouldn't Enzyme 3's, Bio Titans, Gliddeans, Overlords, and Neo Zektoles all be capable of chasing down aircraft?

BTW, I'm guessing the mech armors exist in numbers great enough to defend the territories the ACTF retook from Chronos but obviously not enough to go on a globe trotting war against the rest of Chronos. Also, gotta remember its mainly the Guyvers and the few Zoa characters opposed to Chronos who do the most damage to the enemy/serve as the biggest deterrent.

I wonder if Jason's defection will encourage Chronos to make moves to retake some of the U.S. now....

[McAvoy]

Guyvers can do quite a bit of damage. However standard Guyvers would have a hard time with the Neo class and no chance with the Bio Titans. Warrior Guyvers can do damage but how much damage in a certain amount of time? Who knows.

Look at it this way, the Grakkens were able to get through because of the lack of numbers on Earth's side. Dreaanought, W'Kar, Angel, GPZ, WGV and EKP are all powerful enough to do alot of damage in short amount of time but in the end it comes down to the numbers. Even ants can overwhelm anything with pure numbers.

I'd imagine though the mechs do not match the pure numbers that Chronos may have but if anything, a Blue or Green armors are more than capable of taking on low level zoanoids and the weaker hyper zoanoids with ease. So there should be a fairly high kill ratio.

Most military aircraft like F/A-18s, F-16s, F-15s and F-22s are capable of Mach 2. Which is about 1,500 MPH give or take. All but the Bio Titans are not capable of breaking the sound barrier. Bio Titans can barely break Mach 1. So no, only zoalords can chase down aircraft. It's possible for zoanoids to shoot them down though.

[OnyxPhoenix]

Possible, but doubtful. After having Alkanphel, Kron, and Natasha out of action for now, and with the losses from the SDH siege, Chronos would most likely go about rebuilding and strengthening their lines. Think Battle of the Bulge, and how much of a strain it was on personnel and resources. Chronos and ACTF have both suffered much in that respect. Gotta rebuild, man, or get run over before you know it.

True, McAvoy. Planes can be made very useful in that respect, but their weapons must be strong enough to handle Zoanoids as well. The right type of Hypers can stand up to Guyver Pressure Cannons. A Vulcan Gatling cannon on a VTOL jet has to be armed with ammo capable of piercing their hides, or have missiles that pack enough punch to kill them as well. If the hypers can shield themselves, big problem there. If their long-range weapons are better than the aircraft? It will be like shooting ducks in a pond.

[McAvoy]

I know for a fact that the F-14 and F/A-18A/B/C/D/E/F all have 20mm gatling guns. Those are probably capable of piercing all but the thickest of hides I think. Of course the A-10 Warthog's gun is most useful in this respect, 25mm.

If you look at it another way too. The classic WW2 40MM Bofors gun would be good too for all but the shielded types. There are plenty of guns out there that are capable of killing a zoanoid or even a zoalord. Rate of fire, size of projectile and suprise would go along way. Imagine what would happen if a 16", 2,700 lb shell from one of the battleships hit a zoanoid?

[*zeo]

Yes, anything capable of taking out a tank can also take out the majority of zoaforms. The physical types would especially be hard pressed to defend themselves at range. But the Bio-Blaster types also have the firepower to take out armored targets. So air support would be vital in ensuring zoaform forces don't turn the tide of battle. The most devastating tactics would be firing ordnance and missiles from out of visual range/line of sight.

At the time Chronos took over the world this capability was limited but more modern weapon systems can do pretty pinpoint attacks from miles away without actually having to see the target.

The Hyper Zoanoids approaching Zoalord level power though can in many cases withstand even direct hits that would take out tanks, not all of them but there are quite a few that specifically state they can take such hits. For those it would take firepower that you would use to take out entire battalions. But those that can put up a barrier shield could potentially survive even a baby nuke. So aside from nuking with a tactical nuke and hoping you don't miss them, those hard targets require Guyvers on up to take them out. But fortunately Hypers aren't that much a problem early in the war and later the ACTF developed more powerful weapons and defenses.

Wouldn't Enzyme 3's, Bio Titans, Gliddeans, Overlords, and Neo Zektoles all be capable of chasing down aircraft?

McAvoy is referring to fighter jets capable of going super sonic. Most zoaforms aren't all that fast, the flying scouts for example are only about as fast as regular birds. Enzyme 3's probably can't go faster than say a fast helicopter, which leaves the high powered zoaforms but many of them didn't show up until after the ACTF won back much of the US from Chronos. While Neo-Zektole was originally a one off lost number, making it extremely hard to create and so you only saw them about as often as say Enzyme III's and their main targets would have been Guyvers. Leaving just Zoalords as the only regulars capable of going Mach speeds. I once calculated for Shin that he could travel around Mach 4 based on a scene in the Manga where he stated his travel time, along with starting and finish locations, and he did that while in human form. So probably a common speed for Zoalords.

Course conventional weapons aren't all that effective against zoaforms but the ACTF has actually been preparing to fight since before X-Day. So they could have upgraded weapon systems to be more effective against zoaforms, besides the anti-zoanoid rifles they likely updated the missile guidance system to be able to target small targets and not rely on heat signature for example. So in many cases the fighter jets could have targeted zoanoids far from visual range and zoaform forces would have been by and large limited to anti-aircraft ground fire to defend themselves.

Then by the time the enhanced zoaforms like Bio-Titans started showing up the ACTF acquired more advance alien tech and things like energy shields are pretty common now to help compensate. Though the ACTF are still very dependent on Guyvers and especially the enhanced Guyvers.

I wonder if Jason's defection will encourage Chronos to make moves to retake some of the U.S. now....

ACTF also has some new Guyvers at the end of 7DOH and Dreadnought and his friends are still based in the US, New Cork Texas! Though how the other resistance forces around the world fare is another matter...

[Zoaknight]

Zeo wrote: ACTF also has some new Guyvers at the end of 7DOH and Dreadnought and his friends are still based in the US, New Cork Texas! Though how the other resistance forces around the world fare is another matter...

Yeah, but Gilgamesh is no Dreadnought, neither is that new Gigantic Guyver who inherited Sho's old unit and Gigantic Cocoon. I predict ACTF's shady secret plans are gonna bite them in the ass one of these days, and not just cuz Jason left and took a bunch of heavy hitters with him either...

P.S. I wonder how ACTF's normal forces will react to the General's plans to work with Zeus Thunderbolt to make new zoanoid soldiers and a Controller to lead them? Well, I guess we kinda know who said controller is gonna be since Agito carted in Griselda in her optimization tank.

[*zeo]

Yeah, but Gilgamesh is no Dreadnought, neither is that new Gigantic Guyver who inherited Sho's old unit and Gigantic Cocoon.

The remaining ACTF Guyvers are hardly push overs and combined they still pose a significant force, never mind whatever plans the ACTF has to make themselves stronger.

Besides, do you really think Jason and Co. are just going to sit there and do nothing while Chronos attacks any part of the US, ACTF controlled or not?

[Sully]

This is kinda along the lines of what I've being thinking. Today for example, I was reading what is going to be the start of Time War part 4. The line read "1999 - Present Day". I realised then, "hmmm think it's time to bring it into the modren age", and the reason being so things like F22's could be used in the fan-fic.

So in that end, yes there will be more in the fan-fic from the Military, but not all at first. Bare in mind Chronos would have took over sometime around 2007. They took over in a day, most opposition fell within 24hours apart from the army based in the Middle East. Chronos sank at least 1 Aircraft carrier battle group. Timing wise Union will basically show more detail of the present army and what's the status of it is in the fan-fic. Bare in mind complex aircraft sitting locked up for 2 or 3 years without people working on them won't be air wrothy right away. It won't be until Time War part 4 the air force for example will be properly mentioned and as McAvoy said they should be capable of some decent hurt.

There's 3 factors at play here:

1. What did Chronos destroy on X day.

2. How quickly can ACTF get what remaining assets are out there operational (and of course things like fuel).

3. ACTF''s preperation, they have 2 to 3 years to plan this after X day, they knew abotu Chronos 2 or 3 years before that when Sean met Atkins. They would have a plan that involves the closest Air Force base to the Pentegon (aka Chronos huge processing plant) and getting the Aircraft there going and have air support.

[OnyxPhoenix]

Can't wait for the goods. It will be nice, and will allow timing of some of my other stories that I want to post to be verified. Thanks, Sully.

[Sully]

This seems to be the ideal topic for this. I've decide with bringing in the fiction to modren times to also use modren US Army tech in the story (and as you see in the 7 days story some fictional stuff stuff).

So I've a request for you guys, can you find decent animated pictures of modren jets (or can you draw them). What we're looking for are the best weapons that would be anti-zoanoid in nature. We also need information about where the picture came from to credit it properly and check with the owner that it's ok to use.

At the moment, the first tech I've used in the new starting battle of Time War part 4 with an A10 Warthog helping out a team of ACTF troops in a battle with zoanoids. Other things can be added but there is not much point unless you can beef tha tup with information about the aircraft, another option is to simply use live pictures of the aircraft... but simply put that feel strange.

[Juggernought]

Are these to be posted here or emailed?

[Sully]

Are these to be posted here or emailed?

Basically anything in the current US Military that would actually kill a zoanoid, or even better a Hyper Zoanoid. We'll collect stuff in this topic.

[Zoaknight]

Would videos like these be okay Sully?

[Sully]

Would videos like these be okay Sully?

Umm undecided there, off hand no, but will check with the guys and see what they think.

[Weltall2]

Hmm okay how about Spooky/Specter Gunship AC130's designed for PAIN. 40mm cannons, 25mm Gattling, and 105mm cannons. For those that wish to have a better idea of the power of this flying battleship look to Transformers 1 and you see how it destroys, of course if you look for video of real firing of those guns you will be shocked.