Tyranthrax

Hey McAvoy, if the Guyver can lift the estimated 40-tons, the Gigantic is zeo's estimated 5x stronger, and someone said its size increase is like 8,000x, then basing his power off of the added mass he could, in theory lift 1,600,000-tons. Of course, that's only if we went with a direct size-to-strength translation. But no, I was accusing zeo of underestimating the Guyver, based upon inconclusive results in the manga. The Guyver may not be able to control a Relic from hundreds of miles away but manipulating it from range is still a viable possibility, as based upon zeo's own debate as long as the Guyver wasn't straining to control the Relic, he should be able to do so from a distance. So you see, the reason I'm so resolute in sticking with this theory is because it both hasn't been shown impossible and zeo himself gave information to strengthen my resolve. Overall, try to look deeper than the mere face value of the things around you. If you do anything, you should overestimate so as to not be found lacking.

If with the Unit deactivated they don't eat then how do they acquire the energy needed to keep themselves functioning? Though the Guyver overall is very interesting and exciting it was this site I was first introduced to. Hence my interest lies greatly on the Warrior Guyvers, and I want to learn as much about them as possible.

To bring forth the end to this discussion requires a drastically smaller post from me, revealing how he confuses his own assumptions with factual Guyver information. And that is exactly it. They HAVEN'T tried. Thus, having not tried, therefore having never failed to do so, there is NO proof saying it isn't possible. Refer to strong/fast man. If he can lift 10,000 lbs but only shows you him lifting 5,000 lbs doesn't mean he can then ONLY lift up to 5,000 lbs. The first thing revealed is not always the peak of ability. It is ONLY the peak if something official states it to be so, and nothing has stated the Guyver MUST be in proximity to the Navigation Spheres to give them commands. They have simply been shown doing so. And despite you "knowing all the facts" you have continued to make ASSUMPTIONS and state them to be fact, when they are in FACT, your opinion. Don't take things for what they seem at first glance; that's called 'underestimation'. When something has not been performed does not mean it isn't possible. Strong/fast man. This is what you ASSUME, only because it hasn't been shown. Strong/fast man. No, you didn't, because NOTHING in the Manga has stated: "If all he has is voice telepathy communication then he can't command it to do anything complex." Strong/fast man. If you KNOW the man is performing at his peak, then there are no assumptions to be had. Assumptions are only made when you don't have factual information. Now, the Guyver wasn't shown as being "barely" able to command the Relic. He seemed to do so with ease. Thus, by your own statement, it could be possible for him to control it from a distance. Strong/fast man. And YET, there has been NO evidence saying the Guyver CAN'T control it from a distance. It merely hasn't been shown doing so. Strong/fast man. Your "examples" were but your assumptions based upon what you'd seen. Based on what I've seen, this being nothing saying they can't control it from a distance, my assumption is that it COULD be POSSIBLE. This shows the difference between us Zeo. You're seem to be quick to assume what you're shown is all that's possible, while I'm not prone to underestimating things. Like strong/fast man. And so this "debate" comes to its end, with Zeo still having shown no OFFICIAL PROOF stating a Guyver CAN'T control a Relic from a distance; he's given only the assumptions he made based upon what he has seen. Don't forget strong/fast man though. The reason I cut out a large portion of Zeo's post is because it was irrelevant to the topic at hand, talking about scanning range or forms of transportation and teleportation instead of a Guyver's ability to control a Relic from a distance. So Shenzon, to answer your question; it IS a POSSIBILITY until PROVEN otherwise. Oh yeah, and; strong/fast man. Edit: I removed various portions of my post as I actually found them to be distasteful and quite rude. This is not something I wish to appear as I actually greatly respect you Zeo for the work you have put forth into both helping others better understand the Guyver and for your contributions to warriorguyver.com So in all I wish there to be no hard feelings between the two of us.

Wrong. The host had to first be SHOWN the ability, thus giving them the knowledge of HOW to do it. From then on, they could perform the maneuver on a whim, provided they had the energy to do so at the time. Sho needed the ability to beat his opponent, so the CM said, "Look at what you can do!" All of his abilities were either shown to him by his CM or he was told how by another Guyver. The only example of the second method I can think of is GIII telling him how he could fly. Wrong. Just because they haven't, doesn't mean they can't. There has been NOTHING saying they CAN'T reach that far. Just because someone shows you they can lift up to 5,000 lbs or run 100-MPH doesn't mean that is their limit. That is simply what you were shown. So until someone says officially that there IS a range limit, as they have ONLY for the Zoalords, then it's possible their range can extend further than shown. You're right. It's a good thing they have on-board long-range scanners. Unless, as has been given previously for a possibility, a Guyver can first establish a link and then maintain a lesser control even from a distance. ...Jesus Christ. Even if you know you CAN do something, it's a LOT different than knowing HOW to do it. With no prior data on an ecological system all spectrum analysis would do is raise questions, not show them the planets composition. Why is that? The Guyver's Hyper Sensors don't have to have line of sight. They can detect objects THROUGH objects. While it would be harder to create a same sized jump point farther away, as it needs to create a much smaller jump, that difficulty is reduced. =] In proportion, the portal required to let a 1-kilometer wide object pass through would have to be over 111,111x larger than the portal required to let an object 3-meters wide pass through. I know this because if we were looking at a 1-kilometer wide cube it's surface area would be 1,000,000 square meters, compared to the measily 9 square meters of the 3-meter wide cube. This would mean it would take less energy to form a portal for the 3-meter wide cube even if it were 100,000 miles away. Again, the smaller the portal created the less energy required. Technically, you're right, as the Relic could fill its energy reserves while passing through HyperSpace. But counting the total energy required to create the right sized portal for itself compared to creating a portal for an object many, many times smaller than itself would require a significantly less amount of energy. You're wrong about that, as the Star Trek Warp Drive doesn't make the vessel enter another dimension as the HyperSpace Jumps do. But without possessing the Navigational Spheres it would be without the features a Relic possessing them would. Hence, if they managed to install Navigation Spheres in the Ark it would undoubtedly enhance its functionality. One of the various available forms of teleportation. Something I've just thought of on this is, remember that little thing called the 'Blast Field'? Wouldn't be too good for the Gigantic to teleport into the cocoon anyways. Hence, the cocoon collects and returns to HyperSpace. No, the Gigantic has a portion of the Navigation Spheres. ONE, ring. Not both of them in their entirety. Thus, loss of function. You're the one limited to thinking knowing you can and knowing how are the same thing. No, he knew he COULD, he didn't know HOW. Unless that is the only way they know how. Just because we have been shown ONE way they do it, does not mean there aren't others. This is an entirely different matter. On this topic the CM is reaching out so it can connect with the Gigantic ring and function with it. It isn't extending in the way it was shown when Sho was piloting the Relic. Please, try to stay on topic. As he didn't know how. Yeah, I know that. I'm not stupid. Oh my gee, you're so superior! ;-; LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL JTDCISTGATHMMIALMMFAO! So yeah, like, months later, after Guyver III wakes up, then Tetsuro and the others are teleported to safety. And no, Sho can't command the Relic to do ****, unless he has a brain to first command his own Control Medallion. His commands must have come BEFORE his brain was utterly destroyed, hence, he gave his command before the Relic's Navigation Spheres ever merged. =] At least, that is, according to the information you just provided. If they can scan something from the far reaches of space it shouldn't be too hard to lock onto its target when orbiting the planet in question. The Guyver being unable to control a Zoanoid wouldn't show them having less telepathic range, because the Zoanoids are specifically made to obey the Zoalords. Then again, without GI sayin', "Uh, hey.. I'm kinda havin' problems over here." he's not exactly going to know what's going on. Once again, we are not suggesting the Guyver cut its link with the Relic, but first establish it and maintain it, even if it was with some drop in control. We actually don't know how much control he'd need to do that. Whenever he was wanting everyone to be safe and for him to have the power to defeat Alkanphel his CM was not extended, showing the possibility to control the Relic without the extended CM. And where is it that you read this? I'm sure everyone else here would like to be made privy to this 'official' information stating the previous is true and not just someone's GUESS. Do you think something that large could perform complex 'evasive maneuvers'? Come on, be serious. As for giving any command, being focused on the battle at hand could very well prevent him from commanding the Relic. In the confusion of the attacks from the Holy Warriors could further keep him from doing so, and then when told by Agito to attack Alkanphel, and not to raise the shielding or make it fly away, it's logical to think he'd do as told. Once again, there has been NO OFFICIAL INFORMATION stating that to be true. You are merely making assumptions because it hasn't been done before. Refrain from confusing your beliefs for non-existent OFFICIAL information please. No, you apparently need a Control Medallion to effectively communicate with the Relic. Good thing Guyver have them then. Again, your assumption. Good for Star Trek; the topic is Guyver. Please stay on topic. Paranormal transportation of an object from one location to another, even through solid objects. is the strange, unusual or paranormal movement of an object to another place. See also: apport, & deport. a hypothetical mode of instantaneous transportation; matter is dematerialized at one place and recreated at another Teleportation, or teletransportation, is the process of moving objects from one place to another more or less instantaneously, without using conventional transportation. Hence, according to three of these definitions a HyperSpace Jump can be considered a form of teleportation. Again, there is NO OFFICIAL INFORMATION stating the Relic isn't capable of doing so. If you do have OFFICIAL information on the subject, please quite withholding it from the rest of us. If no such OFFICIAL information exist, discontinue from making statements that appear to be factual, when they are, in FACT, not. That would be quite different actually, as one difference between warp drive and hyperspace is that unlike hyperspace, the ship does not enter a different universe or a different dimension, it merely creates a small "bubble" of normal space time. Ships in warp can interact with objects in normal space. They are two different methods of transportation. And where does it show Sho thinking 'I wish I could fire a beam weapon of my own'? No where, that's where. Sho needed to be able to beat/protect himself from Vamore's lasers. The Unit, having already scanned them previous, activated it's own weapon. This ONE, I can give you, partially. Though Sho did say he was going to show them the Gigantic's true power, he did not say "Now I'm going to grow into a 60-meter tall Guyver so I can battle Khan." Even then the CM could have sent the required information to his, as it did when initially activating all of his weapon systems. Are you so dense as to not realize being commanded by the host is following the host's will? You're right, but the CM did contact his mind and send the information showing him how the Mega-Smasher was activated. It was even nice enough to do it for him the first time he fired it. You're right, but the CM did contact his mind and send the information showing him how the Pressure Cannon was activated. It was even nice enough to do it for him the first time he fired it. You're right, but the CM did contact his mind and send the information showing him how the Gravity Knuckles/Ram were activated and was even nice enough to do it for him the first time he utilized them. On this one I'm not 100% certain the CM initially contacted his mind and sent the information showing him how to initiate the transformation, but with the previous examples it is highly likely. You're right, but the CM, doing its best to make his desire a reality, called forth the Navigation Spheres to itself and thus began the process of the Gigantic's creation. Well thank YOU for your OPINION. You might note that when Guyver I was atop the Relic his CM wasn't extended. Nor did it extend at any point after his and GIII's MS beams were turned back on them, yet his CM still did instruct the Relic's Navigation Spheres. It goes to show the Guyver is capable of maintaining a link with the Relic, even without their CM extended and even if at a distance from the Navigation Spheres. So until you have OFFICIAL INFORMATION stating limitations on what the Guyver can do instead of making assumptions based on what they have done previous, please refrain from adding anymore unneeded posts. Ultimately, this all comes down to a matter of opinion between Shenzon, McAvoy and I who aren't so limited in thought by thinking what has been shown previous is ONLY what the Guyver can do. Hypothetically, since what has been shown HAS NOT been stated OFFICIALLY to be their limitations, we assume they could do more, such as commanding an orbiting Relic that they have maintained a link with. You just assume that what has been shown to you is their limitation, which shows you are underestimating their capabilities. So while you may like to limit then what the Guyver can do, we would like to reveal the probability that maybe they can do more than previously shown. So again, thank you and have a nice day.

YES, it does. Guyver I didn't know he could use the Pressure Cannon until, -GASP!-, the Unit SHOWED him how. He didn't know he could fly until Guyver III both told him it was possible and how he could go about doing it. Actually, sending a command can be done through 'simple telepathic communications'. It's as easy as, "Oh, wha'zup Relic? Me, not much. Say, could you teleport me aboard? Thanks." Man, that was a hard one. Next. The Guyver wouldn't have to give the Relic this 'pinpoint navigation'. Generally, the object that is doing the teleportation has the required information to perform such a feat. Otherwise, it wouldn't be teleporting anything, now would it? The Relic could simply perform a long-range scan to locate and then teleport the Guyver. And yes, they must have such scanners as otherwise, how would Uranus have found out about Earth's composition BEFORE even entering its atmosphere? Of course, you're so right. Teleporting a human-sized being would be WAY easier and use up way less energy than having a massive ship move itself to the Guyver. Yeah, and those totally CAN'T be considered methods of teleportation. Of course, when a being doesn't have the capability to teleport, it would be difficult to do so. As for the Ark not being able to teleport; well, it is a shame it doesn't have the Relic's navigation spheres... Yes, and using the Cocoon, the Gigantic IS teleporting. Uh next. I've already answered this one. The Guyver is calling the Gigantic to COME TO IT. Not to BRING IT TO THE GIGANTIC. If the Gigantic didn't do what the Guyver commanded of it, it wouldn't be too useful a tool now would it? =\ And if it's not the Gigantic but the cocoon that possesses the ability to teleport, it only makes sense it would have to come collect its pieces. Before you decide to try and 'one up me', and fail to do so again; a reason the cocoon might not be teleporting the Gigantic back to it is it may have lost the capability to do so, having lost a very, very, very, very, very significant amount of mass and no doubt function. -Points upwards.- I've, already, answered, this, one. If they don't know they CAN, it will be hard to do so. Without first knowing how to call it to him, it will be hard to do so. You keep pulling up the same thing that can be answered with the same thing. Come on man, I was sure you were better than this... NOTHING has stated that to be a fact. For all we know, one could link with it and move to another Solar System and be able to control it. That it has been shown they extend their CM to link with it does NOT mean it HAS to be done. It is simply the means Guyver I first utilized to do so and is familiar with. Maybe this happened in the manga, as I've not managed to read/see that portion of it, but in the anime at least, even when Guyver III and the Cocoon were in that mountainous region, the Relic NSs STILL hadn't even TOUCHED GI's CM. If this did happen in the manga, it would be nice to see actual PROOF, instead of someone saying, "Oh, they were touching, and then he commanded them to do stuff." Actually, it would be like, over 200 miles away. XD Of course, with the amplifier, hasn't Balkus said he could control EVERY ZOANOID IN THE WORLD? And, isn't Earth's diameter close to 8 THOUSAND miles? Anyways, maybe the extending of the CM is to establish the initial link, or as McAvoy suggested, rapid exchange of large amounts of information. It may very well be possible that after the link is established, retracting the CM would still allow a lesser degree of control. They may still be able to give the Relic simple commands, such as a measly, "Teleport me aboard." It's not like he'd be asking, "Teleport Jupiter to me." Yes, a weaker link. Not a completely severed one. Thanks for answering this one for me. <3 Nothing has said that. You yourself said 'the weaker the link', not 'the severered the link'. Thanks for your OPINION. And imagine that, teleportation is used as a short-cut to get from point A to point B. Even entering the Shadow Plane, moving through it to another point, and exiting from that point to arrive in a different place in the real world is considered teleportation. So for all intents and purposes, it would be considered 'real teleportation'. Nothing has stated it can't. =\ I'm not sure what you mean by 'They just need it to be done for the Unit to respond.' What does the host need to be done, and what is the Unit responding to? But yeah, they DO have to know what they can do, otherwise, they can't do it, can they? Yes, the UNIT can activate the weaponry in times of need, but the host would have no clue how to utilize it until it was first activated, or until they were told how. Remember, the Unit works by being commanded. No doubt the Unit had something to do with it. Go figure. Well thanks for clearing that up. Maybe you should tell that to people who have been doing that, as we're going with hypotheticals that haven't been proven wrong, ergo, could be possible. Thank you and have a nice day.

No, it is not, as nothing canon has stated it to be so. For all we know, it's possible for the Guyver to control it. They didn't do so before, why; they didn't know they could. They haven't done so now, why; there is no Relic for them to attempt it. Again, I would not directly say they CAN contact the Relic via the ORGANISMS ON THEIR BACKS, as they haven't shown able to do so. You yourself stated they used their CONTROL MEDALLION to interact with the Relic. I believe it is a possibility and will maintain that thought until is has been PROVEN otherwise. Just because something interacts in ONE way, does NOT mean there are not other ways to do so. I mean, seriously Zeo, you can't just expect the Guyver to know every single thing they can possibly do with the Relic, for they didn't even begin their lives as Guyver knowing how all their abilities worked. They had to learn.

I'd not state something that could be incorrect Zeo. Though nothing has said it can happen, nor has anything stated it can't. So to correct your statement: Contacted, possible; controlled, possible.

Also note that the Guyver call the Gigantic to them, they're not demanding they be brought to it. For all we know, it may very well be possible to command a Relic to warp you aboard.

I'm not sure that Alkanphel is damaged and dying, but believe it's more a lingering drain from defying Uranus. They commanded him to stop but he managed to will himself to action. I'm betting their last command still affects him, thus he must put effort into simply moving his body. Bit by bit that ever-lasting drain must be sapping at his will and would eventually reach the point where he could no longer resist and would simply, 'stop'. But yeah, both Dark and non-Dark Phoenix are pretty retarded in ability. There's like, powerful characters that are cool because of their strength, then there are characters that are just stupid, because they're too powerful.

Zeo, I think the part in particular he's pointing at is when a vapor-like mist is jettisoned from the shoulder pods when the pikes first extended from them. He's not talking about the entire body steaming in general, but ONLY that particular part where it shows the force of air coming OUT of the shoulder pods, around the extending points. So instead of beating around the bush and talking about excess energy bleed-off, I'm sure he'd like to hear what you think about the steam that leaves from that ONE portion of the pods. Because of their design, I think it's possible it was just excess energy being vented through that point, but now that the 'blades' are extended, therefore blocking the path, it won't visibly vent energy from there. If it does it everytime the Gigantic is activated, then it's probably just the energy being able to vent from that port before the spike slides into place.

That's definitely what I'm thinking.

I'd too thought about a Purple Matrix. My idea was more a test performed by Anubis to see if he could find a way to grant himself the abilities the Blue Matrix did Dreadnought, so he wouldn't really need Zagam anymore. He was creating three test subjects, though a combined Uranus, AAR and Grakken attack caused a collapse that destroyed two of the subjects and put the third into a stasis. When accidentally awoken years later, the Unit was unfinished due to the accidental stasis, but the Matrix begins working on repairing it to bring it to full strength.

Have there ever been any specified dimensions for a Relic, more specifically a War Relic? Also, who was it that originally came up with the idea for them and the Warrior Units? Whomever it was, I'd like to give them a congratulations on coming up with the site in the first place, because it was my brother showing me it all that originally got me into Guyver.

I'm thinkin' it would be Mega-Smashers as that's more related to the Guyver units. The crystals are zoalord stuffs. So, it would have Happy-Smashers, that shoot love beams! OF DOOM!

Well you've gotta remember, the Kavzar are pretty much mindless slaves that do whatever those of the Uranus tell them to. Add in the fact they were grown for that purpose, and I doubt they've ever had any thoughts like that.

Actually, if I remember correctly, the W'Kar converts the chemical energy related to rage into more Bio/Hyper-Kinetic Energy, enhancing his overall power level without making him go into a blind fury. It's kinda like, "I'm angr.. No I'm not. I'm just a good deal stronger." -Slays his foes.-

The Guyver, Chronos and Grakken against Uranus. I'm thinkin' the latter might say: "Alright, screw this. We'll come back when things have settled down." XD

I thought the Aceaer units were non-bonding.

Then the data discrepancy is with the Pressure Cannon and not the Mega-Smashers. Either way, it should be fixed.

This may just be me, but if the Mega-Smashers can release a blast of 21 terajoules, wouldn't that only be 50x more powerful than the Pressure Cannon's 420 gigajoules, which would put the Smashers in the 500-ton range as opposed to the 5-kiloton range? For the appropriate energy level the MS's would need an output of 210 terajoules, wouldn't they?

Just what IS the proportionate strength of a Spider? The 'wonderful' internet didn't have much to say, other than mentioning Spider-man HAS the proportionate strength of one. I've heard 8x your own weight before, but that can't be right, as I know Peter doesn't weigh over a ton...

This has been covered before. A Guyver's strength is rated in the 40-ton class. Not actually knowing much about the Silver Surfer, I'd say the Mega-Smasher would be much closer to him in power than Cyclop's Optic Beam. I mean, his beams are strong, but rely more on either fast, continuous hits, or prolonged hits. The Guyver releases one, quick, MASSIVE energy burst, and its done. We're not doing that. We've just been tryin' to decide on the strength thing because, reading back through it, you'd notice the strength topic peaked up, so was obviously focused on. I mean, we were talking about the HULK and THOR, two, massively strong characters. They don't need too many more of their capabilities brought in to help them...

I can understand the little sleep thing. Sometimes we put things we don't realize or forget to take things out that should have been. Anyways, excellent work.

Good, good. It's also good to see Valkyrie's profile up, though I didn't think she would be able to Power Boost without the Matrix. I also figured her beam orbs wouldn't quite fire quantum energy.

Though it is an interesting idea, I'd kinda prefer not to see any 'Fusion' goin' on in the Guyver stories. Well... as long as they don't do that silly dance... XD