The car industry is heading for collapse.

[*V Guyver]

3D printing can be cheap, but depends on what, and materials. Metal 3D printers are still far more expensive than plastic 3D printers. 

[durendal]

So can we say that Iron Man has an advance version of a 3D printer that he can whip up a suit of armor in a matter of hours?  It was short work when he managed to rediscover vibranium in Iron Man 2.  But it still doesn't matter, as we all know how rich Tony Stark is.

 

It is a cool idea though, you design your wheels, and just let the printer do the building for you.  If I had that capability, I'd print my own Lamborghini Diablo.  A Lamborghini Aventador would be nice too.

[*Chernaudi]

Toyota Motorsport GmbH--Toyota's European motorsports arm--demonstrating some of their 3D printing capabilities:

 

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t31.0-8/10353463_778399075526711_4640343088523210960_o.jpg

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t31.0-8/10271163_778399152193370_7217999284926752769_o.jpg

 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t31.0-8/10317597_778399195526699_3804934557678896646_o.jpg

[*guyverfan]

yes, thanks durendal,

 

yuki, you mentioned that one day you'd love to make/build your own car as you can't afford to buy one. i just wanted to mention that the experience i've had around restoring a few cars is that it can get expensive. and thats still having something to work with. your talking about making one from scratch!

alot of people overlook the little things, and with cars i can tell you the last thing people notice are all the nuts,bolts,screws and washers. believe it or not, you'd find yourself spending upwards of $3000 on them alone! and if you're going to need any custom length high tensile bolts made, prepare yourself to pay anywhere between $80-$200 a bolt!

unless you plan on glueing everything together, but i wouldn't recommend it.

[*Jess♥]

ok, but I think you're missing a trick.

don't misunderstand, I totally acknowledge your past experience with using different parts to make a car, but I'm talking about 3d printing.

sure, it would take a lot of money to buy all those nuts and bolts, but tell me, why would I buy all those nuts and bolts when I can print them?

I am pretty sure there will come a point in the near future when we can print using graphene flakes. these are relatively easy to manufacture and getting easier all the time. using a 3d printer, I can use online schematics and print each part, all I have to pay for is the materials.

depending on cost of material...

well let's say I already have a bike. to make a simple four wheeled road worthy vehicle, won't take much more material than the bicycle I have already. that cost me £40 so I really don't see it costing a whole lot of money when you take out the cost of getting the parts manufactured by a company, stored in a warehouse and delivered etc.

The parts I was referring to when talking about things I would need to order, are things with exotic materials such as a battery unit etc. those are things that can't be printed.

[*guyverfan]

a 3d printed bolt won't have the same tensile strength as a tempered bolt.

take a high tensile bolt, lock it in a vise and using a high tensile nut and spring washer, tighten it to 100ftbs.

take a plastic or alloy bolt,nut and washer and do the same. there's a huge difference. and without high tensile fasteners, you'd be lucky if you make it out the driveway.
if you need to use different grades of plastic or metal, then basic raw material cost will increase aswell.

[*Chernaudi]

I don't think that 3D printing works on metal.  That's something that I think is at least a few years away.  It's phenomenal technology, but right now, it does have its limits.

[*guyverfan]

actually chernaudi, certain companies are starting to use metal 3D printing, although still experimental thanks to nasa's development.

but even when i think about it, it'll still be weaker than a forged or cast item, as printing involves a layer on layer structure as compared to the other methods such as molten casting and finished machine or compressed billet forging, cnc finish machined.

 

anyway, in a rush, just finished an 11hour day at work, want to watch last episode of supernatural and get some sleep before my big movie marathon tommorow, x4,zilla and maybe transcendence or something else,

 

cheerio.

[*Jess♥]

*sigh* it's a little frustrating to communicate when it feels like i'm not being listened to...

I did say the future. and I did say very clearly graphene.

[*V Guyver]

a 3d printed bolt won't have the same tensile strength as a tempered bolt.

take a high tensile bolt, lock it in a vise and using a high tensile nut and spring washer, tighten it to 100ftbs.

take a plastic or alloy bolt,nut and washer and do the same. there's a huge difference. and without high tensile fasteners, you'd be lucky if you make it out the driveway.

if you need to use different grades of plastic or metal, then basic raw material cost will increase aswell.

I have to point out that Metal 3D printers have proven reliable and strong. You can create some metal products far stronger than factory standards. I looked for the article from BBC news, but couldn't find it for reference, but it's been proven already.

But like I said, they are not cheap yet. The machines cost raises with quality of what you can do with the metal. 

Everything depends on the set up. Theoretically, you can produce cars and planes far cheaper using these machines if done in a huge scale. But at home, currently, it's the reverse. The trend will change though over the years. Take a look at the article below.

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20140207-china-developing-world-largest-3d-printer--prints-6m-metal-parts-in-one-piece.html

 

[*guyverfan]

*sigh* it's a little frustrating to communicate when it feels like i'm not being listened to...

I did say the future. and I did say very clearly graphene.

 

graphene does look like the way of the future, but the costs involved in extracting/making it at the moment for large scale use would be astronomical. as for in the future, jezz, in our lifetime?(scratching head)

i could see the benefits of this being used for military and ariel/space applications which would be funded by the bottomless pockets of government.

but considering this is about the car industry, where we all know that manufacturers profits are at the top of the list, mmmmm, don't know?

 

as for consumers use for 3D printing,well, maybe when every household has one, but i'm hoping that lounge chair with a 3D interactive hologram out of the movie 6th day becomes available and affordable first.

[*Jess♥]

actually graphene is very easy to produce.

it can be made using household products.

large scale productions will e needed to be developed of course, but it really isn't some exotic thing to be carefully refined. carbon is everywhere and the graphite used to make pencils is not really difficult to get. do pencils really cost a lot of money? not really.

 

here is the process by which a factory could easily produce massive quantities of graphene.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27113732

and here is the printing mechanism that will be available to all of us in the near future.

 

this is not far out crazy futuristic stuff 100s of years from now. this is happening now. within the next several years. 
I mean, 3d printing didn't even exist 10 years ago.

[*Chernaudi]

3D Printing is phenomenal technology, and if as VGuyver points out, metal printing can produce stuff as good as or better than common, there's a future for it. But like with things like caseless firearms ammunition, the problem is to take something that we know can work on a small scale, into something that's suitable for mass production. That'll be a few years from now, but we know that the concept is workable. It's just completing the steps to make it practical for mass production.

[*V Guyver]

this is not far out crazy futuristic stuff 100s of years from now. this is happening now. within the next several years. 

I mean, 3d printing didn't even exist 10 years ago.

3D printing has been around since the 80's. It just didn't start becoming a commercial product until this decade for private users. 

Anyone starting to feel that this will lead to replicators? XD Seriously, I think these plastic machines will be common in homes in 10 years, maybe 20 years for the metal printers. One that's the norm, we'll see a big change in culture norms. Maybe we wont have the stuff from star trek, but it's a step towards it. 

[*Jess♥]

3D printing has been around since the 80's. It just didn't start becoming a commercial product until this decade for private users. 

 

You're kidding me!!!

damn, I was going off the first time I saw it on a CGI marketplace I was a member of.

I think it was renderosity and the company was called shapeways. They said their technology was new and they were really basic with some kind of resin that printed in a kind of a sandbox. I think that was 2006 or thereabouts.

I can't believe it's been that long and I never heard about it before that.

 

In any case, I can see this technology accelerating in it's growth. I honestly think we will see more availability of these printers sooner than standard prediction models. I mean, we're already seeing the first licenses being readied for driverless cars. who saw that coming? I certainly didn't.

I thought driverless cars were still several years off.

[*V Guyver]

Oh, what you might of seen was a new 3D printer type since older ones used a more cheap low heat tolerance plastic (but were flimsy products). The original purpose of them was to develop test run prototypes for new products like say, plastic case, or a controller. 

Ah yes, the progress of technology and production. Remember how long it took computers to hit Offices, then homes? Decades. It's the same with this. Hell, calculators used to cost $2,000 when they were first developed. Hard to believe I can just buy one in a dollar store in comparison. If the demand and the competition of a product demands it, the evolution of product will speed up considerably. Weather it be nuclear weapons or cellphones, we progress fast when focused and competing. =D

I really suggest you read Popular Science. There are hundreds of products featured each year on that thing, new technology. Some of it pops up real fast on the market, some never see the light of day but lead to new technology. WHen I was a kid reading about the Abrams Tank technology for information transmission, imagine my surprise that it was stated to be used for new long range communications... instead it became Bluetooth. The magazine is now partnered with google, and they have 140 years worth of magazines to overlook. They even release more recent ones after a year of publication to be read. Love it! 

http://www.popsci.com/archives

[*guyverfan]

here's something i spotted while at a function,

 

 

 

 

[Jade Tatsu]

By 2018 the car industry in my country won't have collapsed, it will have gone. They are all pulling out. We are 'too expensive'. So everything will be imported. That can't be good for the global climate situation.

[*Chernaudi]

There's a North American implication, as the Chevrolet SS is a NA spec Holden Commodore.  The Chevy SS is GM's entry into NASCAR and is intended to be their answer to the Audi S4, BMW 335i and the higher non-AMG spec Mercedes-Benz C-class.  From what I've heard, the Commodore, if it will continue to the a RWD car, might be built in China, where the GM division there builds the Commodore (as the Buick Park Avenue) under license. 

 

Also, it's good bye Ford Falcon.  It's due to be replaced by RHD versions of the Ford Mustang as a performance car (ironically, the new Mustang uses an independent rear suspension system similar to the Falcon), and it's again one of those deal where both Ford and GM think that they'd be better off importing NA or EU spec cars modified to suit the Australian market then to mass produce cars there, especially AU only or AU market dominant larger RWD sedans that they don't or have difficulties marketing elsewhere.  GM and Ford already import or build several NA/EU spec cars in Australia, and that trend seems set to continue due to trade taxes and tariffs. 

[Jade Tatsu]

GM and Ford will not be building cars in Australia for much longer. Design maybe, build, no way. they are whinging that they didn't get enough govt subsidy. They will probably still market a Commodore and a Falcon though as those are the two main stays here but it might be a rebadged Mustang or something similar.  Australia gets a lot of EU spec cars built in weird and wonderful places though we are still left side of the road... one of the few hold outs. If Japan changes, we are fubar'd.

[*Chernaudi]

Some Commonwealth of Nations countries with close ties to the UK (UK, AU, NZ, Malta, South Africa) are still RHD. Some cars imported from CoN nations are RHD, especially if the meet US/CND import waiver regs (20 years old in the US, 25 years old in CND). But Japan has been the biggest hold out other than several CoN nations.

Last I heard, Ford wouldn't be making the Falcon anywhere, one big reason is the adaption of the Taurus SHO (with AWD) as a police car and the Taurus is Ford's main full size car (though the Fusion/Mondeo is about the same size), but Holden could build the Commodore in China or even North America.

But the only way that Ford and Holden will be building cars in Australia as far as anything mass production is building vehicles under subcontract for the AU market from knock-down kits. I can't see Ford or GM providing much if any support for mass production of AU specific models unless the situation with tariffs and taxes change or they get more government money or it becomes profitable to build in AU again.

Oddly enough in motorsport, Audi are the only big team running right-hand drive LMP1 cars, due to trying to make driver changes at most tracks faster. Originally, all Audi LMP1 cars were LHD because most Audi road cars were LHD and Audi was the first European company to standardize on LHD in the 1930s. Audi reported switched to RHD for the R18 due to it being a closed car--aside from the Audi R8C of 1999, which was ironically LHD, other Audi LM cars were open cockpit and LHD.

[Jade Tatsu]

Sorry I probably wasn't clear. When I said they would market a Commodore or a Falcon it will probably be something re-badged for the Aussie market. Though that remains to be seen.

 

It's a pity they will not longer be around as for us motorsport you are either a Ford Fan or a Holden Fan. There is no middle ground!

[*Chernaudi]

Well, I'm an Audi fan so that makes me an outcast, I guess   And other than occasion highlights on Fox Sports, there's not much on V8 Supercars here in the US unless Marcos Ambrose is mentioned (who races in Sprint Cup now). 

 

From what I've heard from Ford, when quoted in articles about the subject, they will retire the Falcon name for the foreseeable future when it leaves production in a few years time.  It'll be replaced mostly likely by the Fusion/Mondeo as a family car, and the Mustang as a performance car.

 

For the Commodore, Holden probably will no longer build them in AU.  But, especially if it's RWD, it'll be built somewhere.  It's built as the Buick Park Avenue in China, sold in the US as the Chevy SS, and it's underpinnings are used for the Camero.  If it'll continue to be RWD, it'll be built somewhere, but not in AU, certainly not complete assembly.

 

I never realized that you were a motorsports fan, Jade.  I might message you later on about some of that stuff as far as what I like and watch, and give an update on my fan fic.

 

But on one of the subjects on this thread, I do wonder how far we are away from moving from using large stamping machines to make parts from sheet metal, to metal 3D printing on a large scale?  It's feasable, but that'll mean a transition from stamped sheet metal parts to 3D printed parts.  It'll also mean more investment in new equipment as well.

[*V Guyver]

There is also the threat from China. New car companies keep coming up, and there was talk of a Chinese firm trying to invest heavily in a US company in hard times. China is really a country that has the manufacturing potential to overtake any region in the world for car production if given the opportunity. BYD Auto Co, for example was a growing success from china, so much so that several PR attacks were launched against it in the US (most proven false) that led to many set backs. But that company is still going and growing. 

I think what will happen is that the auto industry will calapse and simply be taken over by new competitors with only a handful of the old companies surviving in some form (or just in name). All those wasted cars, just meant that a company dug itself a hole, and some countries don't want to subsidize such waste. It might be a matter of time. The good thing is that new companies get a fresh start and might be able to bring innovation again to the world like manufacturers did in the 40's.