chapter Guyver October 2012 - 16 pages

[Starwaster]

quickly looking at this i would say that the nose would start where the sphere is at the front, so it would accomodate his nose and eyes, from there you can follow the contour of the head to fill the helmet...

i think i get what you are saying starwaster, you reckon Apollon is just a puppet that acts as a quasi Alkanfel, because hes too tired to do the work himself??

Oops sorry for not replying, but yes, that's more or less what I was saying, though keep in mind that I've always had issues with Arkanfel as Apollon for a variety of reasons. Namely... Picture THIS scenario. Caerleon is sitting in the chamber guarding the crystals.

Arkanfel appears before him (definitely Arkanfel, not Apollon)

Caerleon: zomgwtf??? Arkanfel! I'm like your most loyal subject!

Arkanfel: Can it Ed, hand over the crystals. Oh, thanks for guarding them. Or something.

Caerleon: okee dokee boss! Here ya go!

See? No need for masquerading as an unknown enemy of Cronos. Imakarum as Apollon plays out similarly except that he's there on on Arkanfel's behalf.

Imakarum: Hey, the boss sent me to retrieve the crystals. I'll take custody of them from here.

Caerleon: Oh, ok. I don't much like this but you're the boss's right hand guy so here they are.

That's just to explain my reservations. But I have to set them aside because Apollon nipped straight off to Silha with the Segawa twins after kidnapping them. So if Apollon is NOT one of them then he has to be either a third party acting on their behalf or some sort of puppet they created that carries Arkanfel's power.

The notion that he's some sort of Guyver Zoalord, as per Ryuki, is intriguing as well but still doesn't settle the question of who he is. He knows Silha's whereabouts and there's not too many who do. But, eh, I'm rambling now. Still more questions than answers so all we can do is wait...

[*Jess♥]

But there's no boost material, it looks like a hi-end version of zoanoid armour and why the cape?

Seems to far removed for it to be a Guyver Zoalord.

i agree on a level.

but that is only if we go along with our assumption that the guyver has to be very close to what we have seen so far.

if we think outside the box, we could imagine that the guyver doesn't need to have visible biobooster material and doesn't need to hide any clothing etc.

if the potential guyver body is stronger than the hosts skin then the armour would form to protect them. but if the host has skin that is tougher than the guyver could possibly be, then perhaps the guyver would react differently, creating compounds and structures that better benefit the host.

if the host has advanced powers, the guyver could develop ways to amplify those powers for example.

with apollons armour being comprised of material that is said to be the same as the control metal, it might make sense if this armour were generated by a guyver unit.

in this scenario, the bio-booster armour is not full body armour, but maybe a partial armour designed as an amplification system.

[odin]

Wow that would be a hell of a revelation... but where did they get a bioboost unit?

well, It could be the one Archanfel extracted from Guyver 0 right? if I'm not mistaken it was never revealed what happened to that unit after the battle, he could have taken it for safekeeping although it begs the question if he had the unit why did he not use it until now? and if he is a guyver Zoalord how the heck will sho be able to defeat him, I wonder since his capabilities far exeed that of a guyver with a regular human host.

Edited September 8, 2012 by odin

[*Jess♥]

I am not sure that the guyver zero unit was left anywhere archanfel could have gotten it. that is precisely what the creators were afraid of. it is of course, possible that there were units in that relic that guyver zero blew a hole in.

I believe that is the relic that the temple of silha is built around.

the question is, if there was a unit in that relic, why was it not found until now? well I would expect archanfel very reluctant to allow anybody untrustworthy to search for it, and his sleeping sickness would prevent him from doing any extended search.

I don't think he would even trust barcas to search for it. but imakarum on the other hand, would very likely be trusted fully. and he certainly had time to perform a search of the remains.

[Aether]

i agree Starwaster nothing makes much sense at this point!!!

well i think the most significant thing is the height of this guy - unless a zoalord can grow without mutating, who the hell is it? surely no one is that tall in human form?

whoever they are has to be in an altered state and like starwaster said theres no way it can be a transformed Zoalord, maybe by transforming into 'Apollon' it alters their state again??, unless he is directly from the Advents and their average height is 8ft tall?

i think i get your theory Ryuki about the Boost armour acting as just a power accelerator for someone who is stronger than a human guyver to start off with ( wouldnt that be a Zoalord?) but i dont see why Apollon would be covered in Control Metal material... maybe this is a kind of Guyver unit in reverse i.e small amount of Boost creature and way more control metal??

my way of thinking at the moment is that the bio boost creature is the raw material of the Guyver units whereas the Control Metal is the harness engineered by the Advents..... so seeing as Apollon's suit of armour seems to be 100% control metal material it would suggest that he is more Advent than Zoalord or that some Zoalord somewhere got a hold of a whole lot more Contol Metal material than has ever been found before and has crafted this armour.

bah, i dont know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh yeah i think the the cape is there simply to make him look powerful and cool!

Edited September 8, 2012 by Aether

[Starwaster]

i agree Starwaster nothing makes much sense at this point!!!

well i think the most significant thing is the height of this guy - unless a zoalord can grow without mutating, who the hell is it? surely no one is that tall in human form?

whoever they are has to be in an altered state and like starwaster said theres no way it can be a transformed Zoalord, maybe by transforming into 'Apollon' it alters their state again??, unless he is directly from the Advents and their average height is 8ft tall?

i think i get your theory Ryuki about the Boost armour acting as just a power accelerator for someone who is stronger than a human guyver to start off with ( wouldnt that be a Zoalord?) but i dont see why Apollon would be covered in Control Metal material... maybe this is a kind of Guyver unit in reverse i.e small amount of Boost creature and way more control metal??

my way of thinking at the moment is that the bio boost creature is the raw material of the Guyver units whereas the Control Metal is the harness engineered by the Advents..... so seeing as Apollon's suit of armour seems to be 100% control metal material it would suggest that he is more Advent than Zoalord or that some Zoalord somewhere got a hold of a whole lot more Contol Metal material than has ever been found before and has crafted this armour.

bah, i dont know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh yeah i think the the cape is there simply to make him look powerful and cool!

i agree Starwaster nothing makes much sense at this point!!!

well i think the most significant thing is the height of this guy - unless a zoalord can grow without mutating, who the hell is it? surely no one is that tall in human form?

whoever they are has to be in an altered state and like starwaster said theres no way it can be a transformed Zoalord, maybe by transforming into 'Apollon' it alters their state again??, unless he is directly from the Advents and their average height is 8ft tall?

i think i get your theory Ryuki about the Boost armour acting as just a power accelerator for someone who is stronger than a human guyver to start off with ( wouldnt that be a Zoalord?) but i dont see why Apollon would be covered in Control Metal material... maybe this is a kind of Guyver unit in reverse i.e small amount of Boost creature and way more control metal??

my way of thinking at the moment is that the bio boost creature is the raw material of the Guyver units whereas the Control Metal is the harness engineered by the Advents..... so seeing as Apollon's suit of armour seems to be 100% control metal material it would suggest that he is more Advent than Zoalord or that some Zoalord somewhere got a hold of a whole lot more Contol Metal material than has ever been found before and has crafted this armour.

bah, i dont know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh yeah i think the the cape is there simply to make him look powerful and cool!

That's why I initially felt that Apollon was the vanguard for an incoming Advent task force. I figured maybe they would look A LOT different from a bioboosted human..

Sadly, these last few issues have blown that notion away as if that had been the case, it's not likely that Apollon would know or care about the Segawa twins and even if he did he wouldn't be delivering them to Silha island....

Edited September 9, 2012 by Starwaster

[Aether]

That's why I initially felt that Apollon was the vanguard for an incoming Advent task force. I figured maybe they would look A LOT different from a bioboosted human..

Sadly, these last few issues have blown that notion away as if that had been the case, it's not likely that Apollon would know or care about the Segawa twins and even if he did he wouldn't be delivering them to Silha island....

all true.

2 things to consider other than the issues already discussed...

1. we still dont know the purpose of Apollon abducting the Segawa's - have they been saved or taken hostage?

2. We haven't seen Apollon since the abduction - he might be assassinating Alkanfel while the Segawas are taking up 2 chapters not really doing anything or he could be chillaxin thinking how mysterious he is to himself or he could be chilling with Arkanfel ???? or.....

[*Jess♥]

something to consider while on that train of thought.

Apollon thought that guyot would lead him to 'them'. we don't know he was referring to the segawas, and we had assumed he was talking about the rogues, but if he was talking about the segawas, it gives an idea of his level of knowledge and involvement.

why would he think that guyot would be so focused on finding them?

maybe because he noticed that guyot was watching the fight between shou and kahn.

or maybe something else.

[Guest CybErSpicE]

First of all, just like to say big thanks to everyone for all the hard work! :-)

I've got a slight problem with the Apollyn/Imakarum/Alkanphel theory too.

Appolyn didn't recognise Aptom and pretty much ignored him when he captured the Segawas. Imakarum has encountered Aptom before and surely he would recognise him. Also, I find it hard to believe that Alkanphel would be unaware of Aptom and not put two and two together when he appeared on top of the mansion

[Larz Zahn]

First of all I'd like to say awesome catch Starwaster. that was a pretty clever idea comparing body sizes.

I'm still confused as to why he wants the Segawa siblings. If its to find Sho, he was watching Sho fight Khan, he could just follow him from there....

The reasoning for the abduction feels... personal. No idea why but it does. Then Apollyon goes and drops off the two basically at Alky's front door step. I can't wrap my idea as to why he would do this, not to sure what such actions could even hope to accomplish.

Again, he didn't need to leave Sho after the battle to follow Guyot to find the brother/sister, he could of just followed Sho home. If two humans can sneak around and witness Sho transforming to a human, then certainly someone with Apollyons abilities and skills wouldn't have a problem and not get caught.

Also, if Imakirum is regaining his mind as Murikami, would Murikami even recognize Aptom? Murikami never had much association with Aptom. He only saw the fake Guyver form of Aptoms.

As for Alky, well he dismissed Aptom quickly before. I have no problem that if he was Apollyon, then he wouldn't even really notice Aptom, he's just a bug afterall.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Larz Zahn

[Aether]

i appreciate all this hype over Apollon because its been cool to theorise just who the hell he is and what the hell he's doing! but im starting to want to know what the after math is going to be once he's revealed, because its going to have some big shockwaves through the series i think.

i still think that rumour the series was going to finish in 5 books or so wasn't true. unless Takaya starts releasing 40 page chapters or something.

whats betting we go back to Agito and his discovery next chapter - just to prolong the agony!!!

[*Jess♥]

larz, a good question. why didn't he track shou to the mansion.

I'm actually quite stumped there.

it's almost as though he can't get within range of shou for whatever reason.

maybe shou could detect him? maybe he is really scared of shou?

after kahn died, it seems that zoacrystal travelled a fair way to arrive at his hand.

also, apollon didn't arrive at the mansion until shou was away.

he seems to really keep his distance in all situations.

[Salkafar]

If Apollyon is an agent of the Creators, it's quite possible that he's afraid of Sho. Or rather of the Guyver.

It occurs to me that he might be able to imitate the abilities of the Zoalords, but not the Guyver... and the Guyver is the one thing that drove the Creators away after millions of years of work. It's scary.

Imagine if something you made suddenly turned on you. Like Pinocchio going after Gepetto with a knife. Brrr.

[Guyver0]

Imagine if something you made suddenly turned on you. Like Pinocchio going after Gepetto with a knife. Brrr.

The sad thing is that there is a horror movie based on that scenario.

However, the thought of Apollyon avoiding the Guyvers is perplexing. Perhaps he has other plans for them or perhaps the armor he wears acts strangely when around a Guyver. Maybe the armor is made of the same material as the Creator's ships and the Guyver's can manipulate the armor with their control medal. Or maybe it's more similar to when Sho reabsorbed the bio-booster monster back in the second volume.

[Starwaster]

First of all I'd like to say awesome catch Starwaster. that was a pretty clever idea comparing body sizes.

I'm still confused as to why he wants the Segawa siblings. If its to find Sho, he was watching Sho fight Khan, he could just follow him from there....

The reasoning for the abduction feels... personal. No idea why but it does. Then Apollyon goes and drops off the two basically at Alky's front door step. I can't wrap my idea as to why he would do this, not to sure what such actions could even hope to accomplish.

Again, he didn't need to leave Sho after the battle to follow Guyot to find the brother/sister, he could of just followed Sho home. If two humans can sneak around and witness Sho transforming to a human, then certainly someone with Apollyons abilities and skills wouldn't have a problem and not get caught.

Also, if Imakirum is regaining his mind as Murikami, would Murikami even recognize Aptom? Murikami never had much association with Aptom. He only saw the fake Guyver form of Aptoms.

As for Alky, well he dismissed Aptom quickly before. I have no problem that if he was Apollyon, then he wouldn't even really notice Aptom, he's just a bug afterall.

Yes Imakarum knows all about Aptom, he's kept up to date on all the data files. Remember that Enzyme III was designed to counter Aptom as well as the Guyvers, and that that was revealed via Imakarum.

[Starwaster]

If Apollyon is an agent of the Creators, it's quite possible that he's afraid of Sho. Or rather of the Guyver.

It occurs to me that he might be able to imitate the abilities of the Zoalords, but not the Guyver... and the Guyver is the one thing that drove the Creators away after millions of years of work. It's scary.

Imagine if something you made suddenly turned on you. Like Pinocchio going after Gepetto with a knife. Brrr.

That's exactly what made me originally think that he WAS an agent of the creators...

[*Jess♥]

Yes Imakarum knows all about Aptom, he's kept up to date on all the data files. Remember that Enzyme III was designed to counter Aptom as well as the Guyvers, and that that was revealed via Imakarum.

are you sure this is not a lot of assumptions?

[*Kenji Murakami]

Yes Imakarum knows all about Aptom, he's kept up to date on all the data files. Remember that Enzyme III was designed to counter Aptom as well as the Guyvers, and that that was revealed via Imakarum.

are you sure this is not a lot of assumptions?

I'm fairly sure Imakarum said just that. It was in book 11; or, at least I'm fairly sure it was. Imakarum and Sho were confronting each other, and Imakarum had a group of Enzyme IIIs with him.

[Starwaster]

Yes Imakarum knows all about Aptom, he's kept up to date on all the data files. Remember that Enzyme III was designed to counter Aptom as well as the Guyvers, and that that was revealed via Imakarum.

are you sure this is not a lot of assumptions?

http://www.japan-legend.com/guyver_advocacy/12_-_Defeat_of_Guyver_Gigantic/068/16

http://www.japan-legend.com/guyver_advocacy/12_-_Defeat_of_Guyver_Gigantic/068/17

http://www.japan-legend.com/guyver_advocacy/12_-_Defeat_of_Guyver_Gigantic/068/18

http://www.japan-legend.com/guyver_advocacy/12_-_Defeat_of_Guyver_Gigantic/068/19

Seems fairly obvious that he knows quite a bit about Aptom. His physical appearance has been altered a good bit since he absorbed Hayami, but unless one were severely distracted, it's pretty hard not to notice the similarities.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Starwaster

[*Jess♥]

nicely done guys. sorry to cast doubt on your post

[*Kenji Murakami]

nicely done guys. sorry to cast doubt on your post

S'ok, Ryuki; I know you're not quite as obsessive-fannish as we are.

[Salkafar]

Soo... when next chapter?

[*Jess♥]