Most stirring moments in comics

[Salkafar]

Cap has a whole lifetime worth of battle experience. I would believe Tony can beat Cap only if Tony is as paranoid as Bruce Wayne. But he's not Batman. He's just some guy in a hi-tech suit. Intelligent as Tony may be, he sometimes act stupid.

1) Tony has been an Avenger for longer than Cap.

2) The experience issue really isn't one. They've both been at this for over a decade.

3) Some guy in a high-tech suit? That is like saying Cap is just some guy with an indestructible shield.

Tony is anything but just some guy. Even without the armor.

He always was an engineering genius, with combat training (given to him by Cap himself, by the way) and -experience; but a year or two ago, he underwent the Extremis process. Now, the Skrull virus he incurred during the Secret Invasion negated the ability to directly interface with technology outside his body, but the physical alterations remained. These include, but are not limited to:

- Increased cardiovascular and pulmonary efficiency

- Boosted auto-immune system

- Sped-up healing from injury (described as akin to Wolverine's regeneration ability)

- Increased brain activity and massively boosted reaction speed

He later was fitted with an electromagnetic reactor in his chest to power his brain functions.

Then, utilizing the alterations Extremis made to his body (hollowed-out bones and a trans-epidermal distribution system), he created a new armor based on metallic nanofibers which form any structure he can think up, because they're hooked directly into his nervous system and powered by the implanted generator. In 'rest mode', the armor resides partly inside his skeleton, partly on his skin in the form of clothes. 'Suiting up' can be done in less than a second in an emergency, as demonstrated when he got caught in an exploding car.

The armor, when active, is incredibly strong (Class 100, meaning enough strength to lift 100 tons) and durable; it has been described as 'a form-fitting tank'. It can move at great speed and of course it can fly. It is equipped with a basic weapons allocation of repulsor blasters and the chest-mounted unibeam, but can 'sprout', in its current form, any number of alternate weapons.

Is this Mary Sueing? Well, no, because that is what technology does - it moves ahead.

Again, the power disparity is absurd. Nobody expects Cap to beat the Hulk... but Iron Man? That's totally acceptable.

I understand dramatic necessity. And yes, in their final battle in Civil War, Iron Man was disabled, because Vision - the synthezoid who's currently in a body based on 30th-century technology - disrupted his systems.

But that in itself means he won't be able to do that again.

And what would Cap do if he didn't have superior technology handy? With his structural integrity force field up, even Wolverine's adamantium claws can't penetrate Iron Man's armor (see: Black Panther: "Enemy of the state 2"). I'll tell you what he would do: He'd go down.

[durendal]

I would have to contest that yet again. True enough that Iron Man was an avenger longer than Captain America, but Iron Man never fought in World War II, which gives Cap the advantage in fighting experience. Fighting for a decade does not necessarily mean that you'll have extensive fighting experience you get from a war. Steve Rogers is a soldier, while Tony Stark is a businessman. You also forget, that instead of the "capucin monkey" you claim cap to be, he is a super soldier, which means all his physical traits are enhanced to peak human. Additionally, towards the end of Civil War, irregardless of who assisted who, this is war. The bottom line is, Cap managed to disable Iron Man. When you're fighting with someone for your life, you don't care what methods you employ, you'd even kick a guy in the nuts to win. That's what we call strategy. If Iron Man is as good as you claim him to be, he would have at least expected that. You don't win battles with power alone, you win with wits.

[Salkafar]

I have to take issue with believing the second world war would equip the Captain to be a better fighter in man-to-man combat with Iron Man.

Also, I don't claim Cap is a capucin monkey in any way other than raw power comparison. Which holds up. Peak human, all right... and what does that mean? That he is not superhuman. He is as strong as a human can possibly be, and as agile and fast.

Which means he is not even a class 1 according to the classic power rating.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/strengthlevels/index.htm

Iron Man, on the other hand, is in class 100.

Sure, spirit and possibly a very narrow edge experience-wise, count for something. To a point. It doesn't allow you to take on an opponent that is more than a thousand times as physically powerful than you are. And has directed energy weapons.

[jerrygoodman]

Oh ye of little faith...here's a snippet from Avengers: Prime #1

Steve, after accidentally getting zapped into the Nine Realms, stumbles into a tavern filled with trolls, who promptly attack him. Despite the fact that he doesn't even have his shield, he single handledly takes them out with with his bare hands.

A mere mortal takes out a huge number of mythologically based beings. I rest my case.

Edited September 16, 2011 by jerrygoodman

[durendal]

Funny, at the same series, that guy strapped naked looks awfully familiar:

Now I find this really funny:

And finally:

[Salkafar]

Pandering! Pandering!

[jerrygoodman]

Oh believe me, I'm just getting warmed up...

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy..."

Haven't seen Stark lift it yet...

[jerrygoodman]

From Captain America #367:

[jerrygoodman]

From Amazing Spider-Man #270:

[durendal]

One priceless scene from the Watchmen comic by the master Alan Moore. This one panel is much more powerful than the one that was depicted in the movie.

*note: I'm hot-linking this image since our office won't allow photobucket. I'll correct this when I get home.

[Salkafar]

I think I must dig up a few Crowning Moments of Awesome for Iron Man.

Meanwhile: It's the same thing again with Spider-Man and Firelord. I love Spidey, I really do. But this is ridiculous. Firelord is, like the Silver Surfer, Terrax the Tamer and Stardust basically an angel of death with power levels unappreciable on any meaningful scale. And even the Human Torch could atomize Spidey if he wanted to simply by flaring up. You can't dodge an area effect attack, negating Spider-man's speed, agility and sixth sense.

But you can't have the plucky underdog or the patriot hero lose merely because the circumstances dictate it.

Maybe comic books aren't my medium...

[durendal]

I think I must dig up a few Crowning Moments of Awesome for Iron Man.

Meanwhile: It's the same thing again with Spider-Man and Firelord. I love Spidey, I really do. But this is ridiculous. Firelord is, like the Silver Surfer, Terrax the Tamer and Stardust basically an angel of death with power levels unappreciable on any meaningful scale. And even the Human Torch could atomize Spidey if he wanted to simply by flaring up. You can't dodge an area effect attack, negating Spider-man's speed, agility and sixth sense.

But you can't have the plucky underdog or the patriot hero lose merely because the circumstances dictate it.

Maybe comic books aren't my medium...

You don't have to look further to find Tony's greatest achievement. Just look at how he arrived to become Iron Man. Any other scientist will just succumb to the will of the terrorist and build them weapons. But not Tony, he was clever enough to fool his captors that enabled him to build his own suit of Armor. I think that could be considered as a crowning moment for Tony Stark.

[Salkafar]

But to have it right at the start...

Actually, I have one.

And, next issue, after confronting and narrowly defeating the Monster of the Week and almost getting killed for his trouble:

Captain America would have said something similar, of course. Except with 'Freedom' instead of 'Science'. And Thor... well, Thor is a god, of course, but he would be all up in there with 'Justice', probably.

I'll keep looking...

[jerrygoodman]

From Infinity Gauntlet #3:

[jerrygoodman]

From Fear Itself #7:

'Nuff said, true believers.

[durendal]

Wow! Is fear itself finished? I'm actually itching for it to finish before I read it. And Wow! Again? Nice! Too bad about bucky though....

[jerrygoodman]

I think the main story's pretty much wrapped up, although there's still a lot of aftermath stuff going on.

[Salkafar]

Who can say, with Matt Fraction writing? It's telling that "Home front" and "Yourney into Mystery" both were more engaging than the main comic.

Durendal: prepare to be disappointed.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Salkafar

[Salkafar]

From Fear Itself #7: 'Nuff said, true believers.

Um...

Mjölnir, Thor's hammer, can only be lifted by Thor himself, Odin of course, or, in a bind, those who are deemed worthy by the enchantment placed upon the hammer - these have included Beta Ray Bill, the Captain, and surprisingly both Wonder Woman and Superman.

It clearly fit Diana better, which makes total sense... Superman is more a fireman slash police officer slash nurse, while Diana is a warrior.

BUT...

The 'worthy'-enchantment was placed on the hammer by Odin. In other words, he determined what it constitutes.

Considering Odin's actions in "Fear itself", I would no longer consider the ability to lift that hammer an endorsement.

This was an awesome moment, by the way, prominently involving Thor (and the other Avengers) against arguably their most merciless and unrelenting enemy:

[LordSpleach]

Since when can Wonder Woman and Superman hold it?

[Salkafar]

Since when can Wonder Woman and Superman hold it?

Since the 1990's. Those images are from "Marvel vs. DC" and "JLA/ Avengers", respectively. Superman was only able to hold it because Thor gave him permission under battlefield conditions.