crop circles

[*Jess♥]

what are your views on crop circles?

[*BananaKing]

Simple...farmers want more attention

[*Jess♥]

heh heh, i see

let me throw some ideas at you and see if you still think the same thing.

first of all, what publicity do you think farmers would get for a circle in their field, how would this benefit the farmers in terms of revenue. does this promote their crops as good quality or in any way superior to another farmers crops.

secondly, how much damage do you think this is causing to their crop, how much loss do you think they incur from losing that amount of their crop?

do you think any amount of media coverage in terms of perhaps an interview from a local newspaper, would cover the damages incurred by this?

[*BananaKing]

Let me switch to conspiracy mode here, *puts on big sunglasses and dims lights*

It seems to me that the crop circles are a means to fool the common people into a questioning state of mind. Now we know that certain governments (like the US) doesn't like its people asking questions. HOWEVER, in the case of crop circles, people do ask questions. They ponder where these circles came from, who made the, does the government know, what are they doing about it? Well, this is part of the scheme, you see you ask questions and get distracted while the government takes advantage of your blissful ignorance. They say, "We need X-million dollars in order to investigate these mysterious crop circles." However, they "rob" you of this money, do basically nothing about it, pocket the change, and some time later, they show you a crisis to distract you again.

Either that or its rival farmers trying to sabotage each other.....maybe its artists going crazy

[*YoungGuyver]

There are two kinds of crop circles.

The first kind is the one where regular people go out and bend the crops over themselves. The damage is very basic.

The second kind is the mystery kind. The bend in the crops doesn't snap them, at least in the case of wheat, and the kernals in the tips are burnt/blackened. Noone can figure out how this is done. That's why this is a mystery. A camera crew stayed overnight in a field once, detected nothing, and the next morning there was a new circle.

When I see pics of these, I'd like to know which kind they are. Are they obviously man made? Or are they more interesting? Is there an artist who's been going at this all across the world for several decades already? (and what is he using?) Or is there a more exotic answer?

I can see some designs in there that have significance to human culture, which is why I'd like to know which ones are obviously man made. If they are made by anything not of this civilization, is it merely a form of expression? Or is it an equivelant to a SETI program? I mean, these are geometric shapes, all of which hold mathematical values. And math IS the universal language. I kinda like the picture of the bug in there. Any chance it's the insects doing this?

[*V Guyver]

Virtually all crop circles are fake man made creations. But on occasion there have been some weird unexplained ones. Overall, I see no reason for advanced aliens of another planet to graffiti our crops unless they are mindless vandalizing drunk youths in a space ship.

[*Jess♥]

one day i was walking through the woods around here and i was walking past a part that was quite low next to a river.

there were quite long grasses or reeds growing there and up the hill into the trees and the ground was marshy in places.

at one point I came upon the strangest sight. all the grasses were flattened.

all the grasses facing the same direction up away from the water. it was almost like a very strong wind had blown them flat.

[*V Guyver]

you know, when you are near a lake there is no natural wind barriers aside from some trees, but if it's plain area, then you are guaranteed to have fields of flat grass. Sometimes that is not the case though and there is another explanation, the shifting of soil due to rains, once you have a minor sink deposit under the dirt, everything starts caving in a slight angle, but it's not always noticeable. Though it's very noticeable when you see a car or house collapse do to one.

I have a friend who claims to of scene UFO's, I myself had an encounter with an odd phenomena some years ago too as a child, and still never figured out what happened that night.

[LordSpleach]

I agree with YoungGuyver on this one, but seriously I think we need to investigate the BK's fruit minions about their wherabouts.

[*BananaKing]

There's no need to do that...I'm not making these crop circles I swear it

[LordSpleach]

I'll be keeping my eye on you, BK.

[*BananaKing]

You haven't been already? Jeez I though everyone was keeping an eye on me by now

I will say this about crop circles, they aren't really interesting. What kind of alien race would flatten large areas of crops? What are aliens playing pranks on us?

[*V Guyver]

I been retracing my steps on the study of crop circles as a kid. Wow, so much has changed, I can't really keep up with it. It would take me months to relearn everything about the topic. But one thing is for certain... almost everything we've seen in presented in crop circles is related to something we published. Including little known mathematical geometry going as far back as the 1904 and some are direct responses to human attempts to contact extraterrestrial life. For example, there was a mathematical response to a question related to the shape of the universe and one crop circle...weather manmade or not has it shown as a symbol suggesting a 2 interwoven pyramids (like a 3D shape of the star of David.) Another was a response to a radio broadcast and seemed to hint of a reply to the human gene pool. None the less, everything so far has been related to human communication and even culture.

Overall it really is doubtful that aliens would communicate in such a manner. When it comes down to it, it's probably going to be a visual/sound related method in real time based on math that can be translated to language. But really, I'm no longer in the loop for this stuff, even though it's become much more advanced in study and with much more science thrown in then when I was a kid, it's still a fools hobby and exactly why I wouldn't bother with it again. I'd rather go back to trying to find Hitlers burned and buried body in the former USSR.

[*YoungGuyver]

Overall it really is doubtful that aliens would communicate in such a manner. When it comes down to it, it's probably going to be a visual/sound related method in real time based on math that can be translated to language. But really, I'm no longer in the loop for this stuff, even though it's become much more advanced in study and with much more science thrown in then when I was a kid, it's still a fools hobby and exactly why I wouldn't bother with it again. I'd rather go back to trying to find Hitlers burned and buried body in the former USSR.

Why would aliens use speech? I mean, speech is viable, true. But humans evolved to use speech. Ants use dance and pheromones. As do bees. There are many ways to communicate. You did point out visual, and crop circles are visual. Geometry is a mathematical function-it requires math applied in a certain way to create these shapes. That's why it would be really interesting to weed out the fake ones, solve the 'puzzles', and I guess really figure out what is causing them. If we determine a cause, we could answer a lot of questions. I mean, complex shapes and patterns appearing perfectly in nature? Circles and spirals are one thing, but it's highly unlikely for some of these patterns to be happening on their own (it would be really nice to weed out the fakes to say that with greater certainty)

[*V Guyver]

Youn Guyver I never said "speech" (search the entire thread, the word is not even on this page aside from this very post), I said "communicate." I also suggested that the form of communication is most likely math. The flaw with all this geometry you see in crop circles (like I mentioned before) is that we've all seen it already in mathematical and scientific essays. In other words, these crop circles were fakes using little known HUMAN theories. Aliens would of likely of done something much less.... plagiaristic...

There's a ton of problems weeding out he fakes. Some of them include ruling out really "perfect" crop circles. They use to eliminate fake crop circles by their quality, such as uneven curves and oddities in the pattern. But it's recently be shown how to make crop circles look perfectly curved, and it's a simple matter of using basic math in outlining a pattern. So lots of crop coracles over the years that were held as legitimates were debunked by new research, and thus a great number of them are no longer considered legitimate. This inclues crop circles from as far back as 50 years being debunked, and many of those were used as legitimate examples for years... Do you see it now, the problems presented to such research?

With all these silly problems, I'd rather focus on studying radio signals from outerspace. We have heard some incredibly amazing things in recent years.

[*YoungGuyver]

visual/sound related method

Sorry, you may not have said speech, but you said this.

Curvature aside, I was under the assumption that legitimate crop circles are so mysterious because the stalks of the wheat/grass are bend to the side without breaking, and the kernals of grain are burnt/exploded. Taking a grass sample to me is the best way to determine legitimacy. Anything else to do with curvature should be considered as a factor in the mathematical equation. If we could record the grass condition, and pick out the legitimate from there, then it might tell us so much more.

I mean, if legitimate crop circles are indeed using similar math to what our civilization is, then it would be very interesting and would suggest something about who is doing it. It's not far fetched for us to share at least a little math, as math is after all called the universal language. But just how much is the question. The star of David circle? Seriously? I really want to see the grain sample on that one.

Is is an incredibly elaborate world wide hoax?

The planet, mother Earth trying to get our attention?

Aliens currently visiting our world, trying to tell us something without causing panic?

Aliens broadcasting signals across the stars to try and make contact?

[*Jess♥]

there could be a reason why they would carve designs into crops.

humans may have done much crop art in the past.

such as the following images.

it could be a response to what humans have done.

out of all the possible mediums, perhaps the crops are the most accessible, easiest medium for a grey in his nifty ship.

[*V Guyver]

oh wow! Now that is a beauty. Now this I would actually like to see human beings take up as a commonly fun pastime.

Like I said, I doubt crop circles are their main form of communicating, unless it's culturally related to them. Then why all the kidnapping of country hicks and senseless murder of farmland livestock? Really sound more like the work of teenage delinquents... albeit alien ones. If you were an alein and had a lot of spare time, wouldn't you toy around with another species perception and reactions? We do it all the time with our pets, wild animals, and one another as a species. So if aliens were really behind many of them, then I doubt it was a serious attempt to communicate with us. This is assuming they share any of our concepts of communication...

[*Jess♥]

i think the bonus of this kind of communication is that it is physical.

sounds, operate on frequency. and humans are only able to detect certain frequencies. same with electromagnetic waves. we can only detect certain frequencies. the beauty of something physical is that it can be detected using more or less any frequency. so even if greys were to sense things using completely different frequency to us, they would still be able to detect a physical means of communication.

[*V Guyver]

Yeah, that is a nice idea. I remember there being many puzzle like concepts in physical forms being theorized as a means of communication. But why use something as temporary as a crop circle, it wont last, and it's hard to read unless your in the air. Unless they are using Buddhist ideas in how communicating art functions, then I really can't make it out as a logical choice.

In fiction, one movie had a mathematical problem that turns out to be a puzzle, then in turn when solved turns out to be a recording of a TV broadcast some 50 years prior. Then upon looking closer they discover blueprints for a device as well. (I think that is the order of events) The movie was "Contact" which in all honesty, had a pretty good concept of how we would react with such an actual contact. Though it's possible aliens may not even be as straightforward as the movie was... and in the move it was already vague to begin with.

[*Jess♥]

can you think of any blank canvas that would be sure to get somebodies attention?

to get the message across, i would expect it needs to be a place that is the constant attention of humans.

and it needs to be large enough that the humans will not pass it by without noticing.

and i guess it would be far easier if the canvas were reasonably flat and smooth.

[*V Guyver]

I'm not sure what a perfect canvas would be but, if it had to be one, the best one should be a simple TV signal broadcast. They can do so by using a very strong signal directed at earth, hell Nazi germany managed to do a worldwide broadcast of hitler's speach back in the late 30's. Humans are sure to pick it up, aliens are more then likely capable of doing so if they can manage to reach earth. Also the video can be as simple as the aliens introducing themselves, or if they were serious about communicaing then they can send a equational language code in video format to offer direction of communication or an opening dailog.

Only flaw with this method is that should the aliens who come across us be lacking in visual communication (such as them being a blind, sightless species) then iit renders this method worthless for visual information, but it can still be used to transmit code and can still get our attention easily.

The reason I chose a TV signal is that it really stands out much better then typical radio signals. So we humans have a better chance of seeing it in all the noise polution in outerspace.

[*Jess♥]

tv signal is far from simple though.

first off you have to account for interference from strong electromagnetic sources such as solar flares, solar wind etc. the earths atmosphere has strong radiation etc. aside from that, the electromagnetic spectrum is a huge range of different frequencies and wavelengths. would they transmit in frequencies in a similar band to radio, or maybe they would transmit in gamma rays. then you have the question of how data would be encoded. data needs to be interpreted at the other end. to be able to guess what range we are using, what intervals we use, what the output would be intended as, shape colour, or whether the output be in sound form, or even if the output be intended for other different frequencies in the em spectrum .maybe their signal would be tailored for an image that was recorded in infra red light only.

the reason we can watch tv is because we transmit in a certain format and we know what format that is so we know what our receiver needs to look for. an alien race would not have access to any of that information.

this is why i said such a canvas would be more universal. a physical canvas showing a definite physical change, allowing for patterns and geometry etc would be detected no matter what form of sense you use to find your way around the world.

even if a creature were to use sonar to view the world, they would detect the message left in such a fashion.

[*V Guyver]

tv signal is far from simple though.

first off you have to account for interference from strong electromagnetic sources such as solar flares, solar wind etc. the earths atmosphere has strong radiation etc. aside from that, the electromagnetic spectrum is a huge range of different frequencies and wavelengths. would they transmit in frequencies in a similar band to radio, or maybe they would transmit in gamma rays. then you have the question of how data would be encoded. data needs to be interpreted at the other end. to be able to guess what range we are using, what intervals we use, what the output would be intended as, shape colour, or whether the output be in sound form, or even if the output be intended for other different frequencies in the em spectrum .maybe their signal would be tailored for an image that was recorded in infra red light only.

the reason we can watch tv is because we transmit in a certain format and we know what format that is so we know what our receiver needs to look for. an alien race would not have access to any of that information.

this is why i said such a canvas would be more universal. a physical canvas showing a definite physical change, allowing for patterns and geometry etc would be detected no matter what form of sense you use to find your way around the world.

even if a creature were to use sonar to view the world, they would detect the message left in such a fashion.

Well, if you are an alien being, you can probably create fairly strong frequency of any type. Also, they don't have to guess as to which frequencies we use... we are constantly sending out signals into space and TV signals are particularly common and operate (at least in certain countries) under a specific bandwidth. Imagine the entire USA with it's FDA regulated frequency spanning across not only it's continent but also spilling over to south America, as well as a good number of EURopean and countries in the Pacific use the same type. Not consider that out of all these frequencies it's the most common video signal out there, fairly spread out, and also broadcast almost 24/7 on multiple channels. Overall, no alien can ignore that, same goes for radio signals. Difference is that there are a ton more radio signals used for countless things, but TV signals are much less diverse. This is why I chose it as the logical format. Of course, I could be making a big mistake on my part here, but I thought I had a pretty good thought process when considering it, even if it was for less then 5 minutes.

When it comes down to it, the simplist thing you can do to communicate with a living creature is to emulate and immitate it's form of communication. We do that all the time with animals... it's how we trick ducks for our dinner.

[*YoungGuyver]

I challenge you to pick up the parts at an electronics shop, and build a tv receiver from scratch, and pick up and display signals. You are not allowed to use any premade equipment, aside from the screen, and antennae. I suggest, for authenticity, your antennae be full spectrum. And you are not allowed to research what frequencies or coding formats humans use. If an alien can do it, so should you. After all, we are both intelligent species.

Best of luck to you