About the bible...

[*Jess♥]

Nevertheless, it does not require faith to not believe in the existence of a god.

i guess that depends on your definition of faith?

i personally see it this way -

if you believe in something... when considering something that you can neither prove or disprove. if you have made a decision, then that decision would be one of faith.

if you can have no proof that god doesn't exhist and yet you believe that god doesn't exhist, then that itself is faith in a belief.

[Guest guyvergigantic]

can i just say that im proud of you guys for handling this topic ina mature manner. in too many forums religous threads (specifically ones to do with the teachings of holy texts) turn into flame-a-thons, but this is a good, clean and well thought out discussion.

anyways im lutheran (like crinsom guyver) and i for one sure dont take every word of the bible literally. i try not to cut and choose what i believe or not, but rather i have more faith in the teachings of the new testament and than the old testament . i for one, do not believe that the bible is the perfect word of god... being written by man, i think it is subject to mans primitive ways and flaws, however, i do think that it provides a very good basis and some incite into the word of God.

to be honest ive quesitoned my faith alot (especially as im starting to get older now and can think for myself) but id still definately consider myself christian.

anyways, irrespective of wether the bible it is true or not, i think it has had an overall very possitive effect on my life.

just my two cents

[Salkafar]

"if you can have no proof that god doesn't exist and yet you believe that god doesn't exist, then that itself is faith in a belief."

I did not say "Believing a god does not exist" , I said "Not believing a god exists". The former might require faith. The latter does not.

[*zeo]

Only if you ignore the fact that not believing a god exists simply means you believe the opposite to be true.

For example, it's like saying not believing someone is alive doesn't mean you believe that person is dead... But logically if you don't believe that person is alive then the only other state the person could be in is that they are dead and thus the statement means you believe in the opposite.

Whether you believe in the existence of god or whether you not believe a god exists, you are still left with a belief.

I would say more but we are no longer debating the meaning of faith in this topic.

[*YoungGuyver]

Thankfully.

I think I want to get a copy of the Christian bible and read through it. Analyze it a bit.

I'm a bit curious about Zeitgeists claim that Christianity is an astrological parable. It'll be interesting to see how well it holds up.

[*Jess♥]

there is a lot and a lot of different ways you can interpret the bible.

I go to a christian union evry monday and we spend a good couple of hours talking about teh possible meanings of just a few passages.

[Guest guyvergigantic]

yeah exactly ryuki, i think taking everything literally in the bible is missing the point a bit. i think the bible encourages us to try to develop a relationship with God by really understandin the messages that are not so blatantly written before us. IMO taking everything literally means simple blind faith, which can give clear rules and gets rid of any confusion but i think discovering what passages mean to you can enhance or create a better relationship with God.

but this is just IMO, im sure others (in fact many Christians) believe that the bible must be interpreted as completely literal in order to follow his word properly.

[*Trey98607]

Not really, since the Bible is the word of God, you see the Bible was written by two sets of people, in the Old Testament, it was written by the prophets and in the New Testament, it was written by the Apostles. Four of them John, Mark, Matthew and Luke are from Gospel readings the Catholics hear every Sunday when we go to church. The Old Testament is mostly lessons that are meant for not only the People that were back in that era, but for us as well.

[*V Guyver]

All written material in the new testament such as the traveling apostles were written much later, and pretend to be written by the actual People who were supposed to life in that time period. Yet it was physically impossible for most, and those that could be remotely possible are disproved by the fact that it was all written centuries after the events described. It's dishonest to take the dishonest words of a pretender as fact, especialy if they have conflicting accounts.

[*Jess♥]

It's dishonest to take the dishonest words of a pretender as fact, especialy if they have conflicting accounts.

I don't think it's fair to say that, it comes across a little judgemental. I think it might be wise to rephrase it?

[*V Guyver]

Being judgemental of unfactual beliefs that are forced on some People isn't a bad thing in my opinion. But I see what you mean. Alright, how about; "It's misleading to take the identities of others and pass off your own work as theirs to influence more people."

It's dangerous to have People do that, to pass their ideas and work off in someone else's name... Friedrich Nietzsche was against antisemitic thinking, but his sister was pro. She altered and released his work with her ideas approving such thinking instead of judging and condemning it like he original intended. Hitler ended up agreeing with his sisters views, thus giving Friedrich Nietzsche an undeserved reputation as one of the men who helped Hitler Become a monster. It goes the same for the religious writing in my opinion.

[*Jess♥]

yes it is never good to impersonate somebod yelse.

I think that everyone is free to think their own thoughts though. I mean, you can never force somebody to be a believer.

to give misinformation though....

i guess it does manipulate People a fair degree.

is it dangerous? hmm.. insofar as the groups of People remain in power and teh country remains stable, i think it not dangerous, rather maybe a bit safe.

but then safe is not always good.

if everyone stayed safe, the cultures of teh world would collapse. because nobody would go out.

I do think thogh.. that People will only follow something if they feel it is right i their very soul.

a lot of People these days turn their back on religion.

a lot of People investigate many different religions to find ideas that feel right to them.

the bible is an intersting thing. I have spoken to a number of new and born again christians about it. People who choose to be a christian rather than be indoctrinated.

they each have their own views on hte bible and what parts are literal, what parts are metaphor.. what parts are simply misinformed or outdated.

[*V Guyver]

Well, I have been called an Atheist... though I still follow the message of Christ, and most of the Ten commandments. I just don't do the prayers or worship god anymore. But in a sense I am still christian. Though I think I can either be called a Free Thinker, yet, you can call me the Antichrist for all I care, because I don't want to be associated with anyone. I just don't like the functions of organized religion, simple because People are often told to and raised to believe every word that someone in charge of your sect preaches... well at least mine did. Not sure about all others, but a good number of them do. Most also tell you and make rules saying you must have blind faith in their methods, or otherwise it's a sin.

I just find that very hard to tolerate. Oh and "manipulating People to a fair degree" can be considered an understatement. Weren't all the crusades enticed by the idea of salvation? Thousands of People marched, without armor, weapons, food to go into a battle because they were promised heaven if they did this and so forth. You wont see as much of that today as it was back then, but countless People died and left all they had being in their lives just for this one goal, to free the holy land, and if you fight for it and die, you go to heaven despite any sins you had. I have to say, it was a brilliant marketing strategy at the time.

I was asked if I have faith in anything by a religious friend asking how the hell I can live with myself when I don't have faith in god, or any religion for that matter. My response was simple, I have no faith in god, just faith in my morals. It's cheesy and it ain't much, but It's me, it's my faith and though I miss blissful religious zeal, I'd rather be ostracized then stick with what I don't believe in.

And yes, I know I sound sorta dreadful and hateful. I'm not hateful towards people, maybe myself and those why cause grief in life, but I do encourage People to follow their own faiths, even the religious type.

[*Jess♥]

And yes, I know I sound sorta dreadful and hateful. I'm not hateful towards people, maybe myself and those why cause grief in life, but I do encourage People to follow their own faiths, even the religious type.

I don't think you sound dreaful or hateful.

I think you sound down to earth and sensible.

it is wonderful to have faith in yourself. because once you can have faith in yourself, you can extend that to that which is beyond yourself.

This is what i believe in some respects.. that God starts in your heart and spreads out.

that god isn't in some other place.. but god is your own love, your own trust in yourself.. god may be 'trust' and 'love' itself. or not, just some suggestions.

I think that any faith in anything should be a beautiful pure thing.

I mostly have believed that i am just ME. and i am isolated, an individual that is separated fro existance and yet able to communcate with others through various means. but one time.. a few days ago, I had the stranges tthought.. what If I am not just me.. what if I am mmore than just me, and I just don't realise it.

it was a startling thought and I didn;t quite understand it at the time and i stil can;t make head nor tail of it. but I felt an element of truth there, so much that i have never felt before.

well it's one of those things where you just shrug your shoulders and move on. no point dwelling on it too much, or it'll just turn you crazy.

anyway.. derfintely have faith in yourself if only that. People who don't have faith in themselves are those kinds of People that become crusaders.

I mean, I think this is a good thing.

[*V Guyver]

thanks, though lots of People have treated me as if I was hostile towards religion oddly enough.

Religion is nice, just not when it's warped by certain people.

I was recalling something about old Jewish Folklore. They follow the book of the old testament. But there are other stories aside from it, ones that aren't part of the canon story. For example, Lilith was Adams first wife and mate, but was cast out of the Garden before Eve was created. She ends up being with Able centuries later and birthing the monsters and fiends that haunt humanity since both were sinners. It's not i the bible for old Testament, could it be that jews prefer not teachign this as mainstream because the concept of divorce?

Also, I wonder why the GOD, the christian version doesn't have a name? He has adozen different names between Jews and Islamic folk, so why not Christianity?