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The Mortal God


YoungGuyver
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i really liked evangelion at first i was like where the f is this goin but the ending really is amazing - i think if you watched it again or at least the end movie you may percieve it differently than you did before. the Kabbalh is an undertone to it all and shinji's role and what he goes through to me is... worth an essay really.

something confuses me about Metatron, as he is thought of as a /the highest angel why is he not included in the 7 arch angels ?? and if he is then who he does he replace of Uriel,Raphael,Raguel,Sariel,Gabriel, and Remiel?? when you say he is an ammalgamation of anfgels do you mean he is the 7 arch angels collectively???

he seems another abstract concept to me, ... old reliable wikipedia says he's thought of as a 'lesser YHVH ''/yahweh/ tetragammaton but if yahweh was accepted as the 1 god by most, then that would be the accepted view that he was lesser than yahweh..when viewed in the sephiroth maybe like you said he actually was yahweh the tetragammatron. it also says he is mentioned more in the talmud- the interpretations of the Rabi, and the Rabi would have a deeper level of understanding of the esoteric principles hidden to the lay person.

i think no matter what level we exsist on as long as we percieve anything subjectively you still wont reach the one,so in a sense does it really matter what level you are on?? like you say thinking of /on higher levels are crazy to try and think about, because we cant.

im not up on all the differences of the dimensions really, though i do know there are different interpretations of them which is confusing to me , if you could explain your understanding of them it would be interesting.

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sure thing.

let us look at our own form. actually it is believed by some that we are borderline 6th dimensional beings.

christ is 6th dimensional, buddha is 6th dimensional, the aztecs were believed to have ascended to 6th dimension.

as we are most of the time, we are split. we don't have access to our 6th dimensional part, or our 'higher self' also referred to by scientists as 'subconscious'.

we have had an interface to help to split us and that is the etheric body. the etheric body forms an aura around us and inhabits the dreamworld and imagination. this is teh body that remains on earth and makes up 'ghosts' etc.

also there are apparently what we would call alien races that are etheric in principle. this is why you see these 'crazy' people who contact aliens, but we never see them.

anyhow, the spirit body is the 6th dimensional part of us and the part that is considered divine. I would wager that when you get to the stage of the 6th dimension, perception is far different. we can't understand it because we are separated from it but our dreams and imagination can act as translators of information. this is why we are capable of what we consioder abstract concepts.

that's the way i've learned up til now. it's what i understand. it may not make sense to you but that's how i see it.

ok metatron. in terms of heirarchy in kabballah, i will list the archangel names from top to bottom.

Metatron

Ratziel

Tzaphkiel

Tsadkiel

Khamael

Michael

Auriel

Raphael

Gabriel

Sandalphon

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well i still dont get the angel stuff so im just leaving that, it seems they are just exspressions of concepts rather than beings?

as for the dimensions...ive read that our cellestial ancestors were from a higher plane and then densified....

so in this instance we are talking about the different dimensions of the human being?if i'm right does that mean your structure is as what i know as

1st physical aura

2nd emotional

3rd mental

4th Astral

5th Etheric {these last 3 r superconscious

6th celestial {part of spirit

7th spiritual {or 'higher self'

if you have a different view or interpretation let me know, this isnt concrete to me.

with you talking about 6th dimension and christ and buddah this just further shows me that their 'powers' or divine being is latent within us all, as these bodies can be accessed while still being in the 5 lower bodies on earth. Christ n Buddah and many others must have transcended the boundaries while still here in physical form but to do that requires your brain going through processes that have 'supernatural' results.

but here we are talking about dimensions of humans or beings, this is where ive got mixed up i think... do those dimensions of the body fit in with the dimensionality of physical exsistence?? does 4th astral body really relate to time does the mental body equate to our spatial 3rd dimension,etc. or am i just being silly?? i dont think they do as its too simplstic right? but i think the structure of what we percieve in the higher dimensions will be different to here or maybe we only see part of its construct here? whoops my minds drifting...

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1st physical aura

2nd emotional

3rd mental

4th Astral

5th Etheric {these last 3 r superconscious

6th celestial {part of spirit

7th spiritual {or 'higher self'

............

with you talking about 6th dimension and christ and buddah this just further shows me that their 'powers' or divine being is latent within us all, as these bodies can be accessed while still being in the 5 lower bodies on earth. Christ n Buddah and many others must have transcended the boundaries while still here in physical form but to do that requires your brain going through processes that have 'supernatural' results.

I don't know about this, those multiple bodies you have mentioned, doesn't mean a thing to me i'm afraid. in my view, emotional and mental processes are part of the human ego and thus constricted to the 3rd dimension (i mean together, not 1, 2 and 3). time is generally accepted as teh 4th dimension but i am not clear on how that works. let us just say that when we talk about 3 dimensional beings i guess we can have a sly thought in our mind "actually we mean 4th dimensional".

but you listed astral and etheric separately. well you would have to assign a definition to those. the way i see it, astral and etheric are just different ways of saying the same thing. etheric body is what you go into when you travel on what is known as the astral plane.

celestial is just to do with the sky as far as i have heard. spirit is what some refer to as god. in spirit, all of you, me and everyone else, are purely and completely empathic.

this brings me on to talk about christ. and buddha.

well i can make reference to hte christian bible here. christianity says that the way to salvation is through christ. but i think many people misunderstand when they think this refers to jesus. christ is an adjective. actually christ mean "the annointed" or something like that. all of us have christ within us. it is a function of our etheric body. also there is a similar reference to this concept called the 'kundalini'. all of this is describing the process through which a human links up with his spirit body.

if you have any more on your list perhaps you could share? I'd like to learn more about that perspective.

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when you say to you astral and etheric are just different ways of saying the same thing, it is much what i thought but when you start to read different sources people really mess your head up : in the list i provided they are separate because they are from a view about the auric fields around the body being parrallel to the chakras and how they connect with the higher planes of existence.

from my source etheric in the above lists context is pertaining to the 5th etheric 'template' auric body above the 4th astral auric body. this etheric template body is a higher blueprint for the 1st body the 'physical aura' aka the 'etheric aura', so the lower etheric body is a lower expression of a higher structure ??????...its bloody stupid naming if you ask me.

ive read that the etheric body is the generic term for the group of subtle energies that i listed that make up the 7 levels of the auric field and that the astral body is that which can be independant of the body.but then thats just one instance. i think the terms just get used without exact intention. i think that in these concepts we are to take the lowest astral plane as etheric,the middle adstral planes as the astral plane and then the highest astral planes are spirit planes?? :confused:

its semantics!!...always bloody semantics!!! etheric or astral? soul or spirit?i find is another one....sometimes spirit is seen as a corporeal energy - our life force the thing that makes us go and the soul is the eternal energy which does not die, but again saying that it is part of the highest 'spirit'. once you think of spirits and souls you have to look at the different nature of spirits eg reincarnation etc. .again i think it depends how deep you look into stuff, general terms dont cut it once you look at specifics and exact processes :(

i understand aether to be the conscious energy of everything in exsistence basically the building block of everything in exisitence no matter what dimension/plane.

i have read somewhere that it can be thought that ether is that of the physical plane but that the same substance in the astral is called astral light... but light is comprised of ether so to me it really is just astral ether a purer expression of it or just - ether!

its funny my 'occult dictionary' totally cops out and doesnt have a separate entry for aether/ether despite referencing it frequently nor any entry for astral light! thus totally avoiding the subject!!

i do know that derived from latin ether = shine and astral = star to me that means that astral is of above or a shining object and ether is of energy.

some sources say that the etheric body is lower than the astral but then they talk of everything coming from the ether thus ether being a term higher than astral ?!? contradictory to me. maybe as confusing as this post :)

BTW wheres the 5th dimension - does it not exsist in all this ?we talk of 4th and 6th wheres 5th!??? is it like the 1st and 2nd that we know must exsist but dont experience them???? or is it to do with hyper geometry?? then the 6th is just unknown?

i found a statement talking spatially this is abridged...'' human beings are 6 dimensional beings but 3 are nullified by the other 3 cosequently we can only move 3 dimensions''... i presume he means left or right and forward and down? the opposite would be right or left backward or up imagine if being 6 dimensional meant you could go in all directions at once!????!!!!! that would be effin crazy

is this what you meant by 6 dimensional or did you mean 6th dimension as in realm or plane??

Edited by Eether
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wow, that's a lot of information!

well I think that is a big weakness of people... we need to use language to communicate and so often it is hard to communicate a concept.

anyway... there is no missing dimension.. the first 4 are already assigned by science. 5 is astral plane, 6th is heaven. etheric body inhabits the astral plane, spirit inhabits heaven.

but of course, all this is just words. the concept is more important.

also, the concepts are only useful in ways that they can be used. so a concept on its own is pretty futile.

after all, imagination is the most important thing when talking about this stuff.

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wow, that's a lot of information!

:lol: i was racking my brains to throw some of that at you! its funny to try and articulate what im thinking into a post, i seem to go off on a tangent..ive even got a flow chart in an attemt to get this in order!

yes concepts are important, but it irks me that relatively easy concepts are tainted by improper or misused language - of which im sure im guilty of aswell.... all this just says to me that mystery schools should open to the public and have all this drenn on the syllabus!then there would be a standard defined language for all this for everyone to use and understand....maybe i'll do it!! ''come one come all to the eether amateur mystery school - we can all learn we know nothing together!''

anyway...... i am with your pov now when you say 1st through 4th are accounted for and 5th as astral, 6th as 'heaven' ( more semantics :) ) i wasnt 100% what you were saying and my mind was throwing in other ideas aswell -as usual - to confuse me further.... so i am presuming that we are saying the 7th dimension/plane/level/realm or whatever would be the level of 'GOD'.... i bloody hope so, because that fits perfect into the greater scheme of things.

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to be honest, I have no idea about 7th. I think i could accept what you say about 7 being 'god' even if only because i have no other suggestion :lol:

in terms of concepts, I am at a loss... but when it comes to geommetry, there is much more.

THAT as a concept it is a bit messed up and my head doesn't allow me to cope with it.

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to be honest, I have no idea about 7th. I think i could accept what you say about 7 being 'god' even if only because i have no other suggestion :lol:

:cool: well it does make sense. the phrase '7th heaven' springs to mind. Aswell as 3 being the 'magic number', 7 has some magic also - maybe de la soul should do a remix of their song :biggrin:

Thanks dude

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  • 2 months later...

Sorry for the absence. I got a little hot headed and needed to take a little time off. But I'm back.

Wow. This discussion really went into an interesting place. Um. Not exactly where I intended. I'm open to the concept of an Astral plane and everything, but I wouldn't give it a definitive dimensional number until science can quantify it and explain it in terms of particle physics and the like. It seems a little premature at this point to start calling it 'dimension 6' or something. For all we know, it could be nothing more than a subconscious state that the brain can enter.

Spare me the bravado, until you have more then what a village idiot could draw up.

And how would you ever know if I had more? So much of my bravado stems from that fact that -you- started shooting down without even asking a single question to get me to explain more. Your stance seemed to be as if a kneejerk reaction, as if instantly I was wrong by -possibly- challenging a belief. Honestly, I can't give creationists much credit for their Earth dating, not when their version of radioactive dating violates science that we use for printed circuit boards.

What surprises me is that Zeo actually had some good questions and comments in his pm.

-for instance, he questioned Earth's gravitational relationship, if of course it were growing. My answer is that of course Earth has obviously stopped growing. If Earth was a planet created by someone from an alternate plane of existence, then they probably finished that phase of its construction a long time ago. It's this alternate Pangea that strongly suggests to me that -Earth- possibly had a transdimensional origin:

Ignore the audio in that. There are many theories on how to interpret it. It is not a new observation, it at least goes back to the 1930's. But the core point is there. (I don't disagree with plate tectonics, its just that it looks like there's more going on)

The reason why I suggested that god might be evil is that over time, we have stated what god is, and why he acts in a certain way-not from empirical evidence, but rather from faith. We MUST believe he is good, we must believe he is justified. Few of us are willing to consider the possibility that he is evil. But opening the mind to anything, going back, and rereading the first chapter of Genesis-in order, each day can act as a summary of creation.

Day One-Big Bang. Earth was a formless void. The wind spread over the waters (is this an interesting way to describe the blast?) And god said let there be light-light didn't exist at first in the big bang. We are a visual people, and in my mind at least, I 'see' the explosion rather than imagine the force it actually represents. It is interesting how light is mentioned in Genesis. "There was evening and there was morning-the first day"

Day Two-"Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let is separate the waters from the waters". I'm sorry, what? Day two describes air being generated, dividing clouds from ocean. If material were being pumped into this dimension, how does this affect an atmosphere? My first reaction is to suggest that any transdimensional gateway would require energy that would heat any material passing through. Of course with humanities lack of any real world technology of such at this time, that's just an assumption. I like to think that the core of the Earth is like an antennae that makes the cross over possible, first bringing the water over. But in Genesis we are given mention to water first. It's possible that when the first solid material (Earth's core-or the start of it) was brought over, it was indeed hot, and began to flash water into vapor, to form something of an atmosphere. I'm being extremely liberal in my atmospheric composition, because I'm not using a form of dimensional structure like string or M-theory. There is a physical observation, and I'm noting that a mythical text kind of draws parallels.

Day Three-Land appears, and vegetation starts to grow on it. Terra forming. At this early stage primitive life is used to turn Earth's atmosphere into an oxygen one (in my theory, its possible that extreme heat from the Earth's core pouring through the dimensional barrier creates an oxygen atmosphere, but also possible that poisonous gases could be carried in to create an atmosphere. This is a different method of planet formation, but molten metals are still used. Unless the day two passage merely suggests that gases were pumped through the dimensional gateway. But I think the core/gate way was in a molten state either way, at least until the surrounding waters could cool it into a solid form. It is somewhere in this point that matter, or at least great amounts of it, have stopped being pumped through the gate way. At least as far as we can tell).

Day Four-"Let there be lights in the dome in the sky to separate the night from the day". Again, what? Did this just suggest that no sunlight was getting through? I suppose we could interpret this in an 'Eric the Viking' sense, in which everything is merely grey cloudy type day all the time. But it could also suggest a change in the Terra forming. What is weird is that it is at THIS point that the sun and the stars are created. It mentions them as light being created though, but it mentions that light was created in day two. Does this suggest that day two describes the division of the four forces-and day four is when astral bodies are generated separately from Earth's injection into the universe? There are a few different ways to interpret this. Personally, I'm quite surprised by this. I wouldn't expect a clear sky in such a hot universe, but I suppose the universe would have to be cool in order to allow a clear sky to observe any star like structures. But if the atmosphere were acting as a sort of shield from the intense heat and cloud of a cooling universe and forming sun, then I doubt the atmosphere could be simple rain clouds and nitrogen oxygen gas. The engineering for this would have been incredible.

Day Five-And then animal life comes from the sea. Evolution says it does, but so does the bible. Evolution probably said it does because the bible did, but genetic evolution science agrees with it. IC Ominae stated that certain structures are not reducible. That is not true. Creationists argue that a wing is one structure that has no intermediary steps that are useful. That is true, but is does have an origin step that allows it to be residual until it becomes useful again as a wing. The lungs of a bird, wings, and gills are all genetically related. DNA mutation can allow multiple copies of a gene to be created, and evolve separately. A fish could have developed two sets of gills, one to become a lung, the other a wing. Not all at once, mind you. But with examples like this, it kind of justifies the biblical claim that life came from the ocean. I'm just wondering if the gateway was used to inject life into this world, or if merely the conditions were set. I myself think that at least Terra forming life was injected in, but that's just me.

Day Six-Here come the land animals. Note, birds came in day five, not on six, were it mentions land animals. Strange.

Day Seven-God takes a rest. Why would an omnipotent being need rest? Unless the being behind the creation of this world required regeneration? That would suggest either a limit on how much the source of our creator could create, or that our creator was fueled from an outside source. In any event, rest suggests limit. If our creator were indeed a mortal from another dimensional plane, that would be very realistic.

There are three separate ideas coming together here. The bible, of course. It is not necessary for the theory itself, just an interesting note. The bible can be made to match observations in science. My theory that Earth is an injected creation can exist without it. The growing Earth theory is of course the biggest key. It's a real world observation that many different people are coming up with their own theory for. And thirdly, Michio Kaku's 'Parallel World' sparks the biggest shoot off, as it strongly suggests we escape our own dying universe by creating another and jumping into it, and going into how we might actually pull it off. Rereading the bible, it kind of got me wondering if -that's- what someone else was TRYING to do. Eating from the tree of knowledge or wisdom then have different connotations. Genesis gives very literal reasons why it was bad for humanity to break those rules. We've tried to explain those away so that god still remains a good guy. Why?

Ryuki, you asked me about god being long lived? Well, in one version of the dying universe, time dilation becomes and extreme factor. Days would become years. Moses had an interesting relationship with god. He even seems to out think him, which is really weird. God decides to punish the Israelites, and Moses points out it would be a bad idea-Exodus 32 10-14. And in Numbers saves people from gods power, interrupting a plague, interrupting gods power-Number 16 41-50. If the effects of time dilation were increasing, it might explain why we have no outward communication with 'god' at this point. I've got a few ideas on why god simply wouldn't cross over, and why seraphim would be punished for it; but really an in depth understanding of the dimensional plane structure would be required to really explain that. And I don't think anyone has anything that adequate yet to give a definitive answer

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which version of teh bible are you reading from?

here, I will provide you with text from the new king james version.

I bought this 2 years ago and was advised that the new king james was the most complete, most accurately translated and with most cross references. (although for some reason the international is more popular)

see what you think of any differences in the text.

1

  1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
  2. The earth was without form,and void; and darkness on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
  3. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
  4. And God saw the light, that good; and God divided the light from the darkness.
  5. God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
  6. Then God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
  7. Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which under the firmament from the waters which above the firmament; and it was so.
  8. And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
  9. Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry appear"; and it was so.
  10. And God called the dry Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that good.
  11. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yields seed, the fruit tree yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.
  12. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb yields seed according to its kind, and the tree yields fruit, whose seed in itself according to its kind. And God saw that good.
  13. So the evening and the morning were the third day.
  14. Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
  15. "and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.
  16. Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night the stars also.
  17. God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth.
  18. and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that good.
  19. So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
  20. Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens."
  21. So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that good.
  22. And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
  23. So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
  24. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, according to its kind"; and it was so.
  25. And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that good.
  26. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the wild animals of the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
  27. So God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
  28. Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
  29. And God said, "See, I have given you every herb yields seed which on the face of the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.
  30. "Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which life, every green herb for food"; and it was so.
  31. Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

2

  1. Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
  2. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
  3. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
  4. This the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
  5. before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and no man to till the ground;
  6. but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
  7. And the LORD God formed man the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

what i find of interest here is the capitalisation if 'He' and 'Him'.

actually, to me, this text seems to read as though there were more than one involved in this process.

especially where the text refers to the creation of man, it says 'Our' and 'Us'. Which suggests at least 2 involved in the creation process.

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I don't like the king James version because it was a translation of the Greek version (old testament) which was a translation of the Hebrew. A translation of a translation. I prefer the New Revised Standard Version (NSRV). It is a translation from the original languages, and uses original manuscripts as reference. Actually I could go on about how in depth they went into to make it accurate. There is another more accurate one though-my version gets gender specific, which is incorrect for some parts in the original versions. But I think I can get by with that. When a word can be interpreted more than one way, my version points out both. I've actually got footnotes on the bottom explaining that Adam means 'man', and Eve mean 'life giver'. It points out when it doesn't understand a phrase in the original language, and has to rely on a previous translation to provide some meaning. So I'm pretty happy with it.

For instance, as you have

2 7- And the LORD God formed man the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

I have

then the LORD god formed man from the dust of the ground b and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being

b Or formed a man (Heb adam) of dust from the ground

Foot note f is also interesting. In 3 5, it says be like god, but god could also be taken as a plural.

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ah okay then, that does seem interesting.

the lady in the shop told me that the new king James was the best, but it seems that you are right.

upon further research I found that the nkj is only using texts from what was available in the 17th century.

so it is most accurate to the Greek and Hebrew texts of that time, but not including more recent discoveries.

I think I'd like to trade it in for a better one. ^_^

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  • 2 weeks later...

I took the trip into town to the bible shop and I have invested in a new book.

after researching lots, I decided to get the same as yours.

I now have the new revised standard version. it is the Anglicized edition so my spellings may be slightly different from yours but no matter.

I also found that the new Jerusalem version can be considered quite accurate.

I find your thoughts fascinating. the idea of this describing the earth coming through from another dimension and YHWH performing this task.

this is all very possible.

would you say that YHWH is a single being then or would you think that perhaps it could be multiple beings? perhaps a race of beings?

it is said that god is within us, or Christ is within us.

I've heard whispers about some people being somehow different. like soe dictators being somehow demonic in nature.

do you think that this could be linked?

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I find your thoughts fascinating. the idea of this describing the earth coming through from another dimension and YHWH performing this task.

this is all very possible.

would you say that YHWH is a single being then or would you think that perhaps it could be multiple beings? perhaps a race of beings?

The dimension idea works without the bible, I just found the bible things interesting. Based on real world archeology, I would say multiple entities/gods. Yhwh as a monotheistic god was something that only really took after the Isrealites had been conquered. Evidence shows that the Isrealites were the Caananites that took to the hills to escape corruption. That Yhwh was a Caananite god, alongside Baal, El, and the rest of their pantheon. Yhwh, the host of hosts. The wording then becomes very interesting.

I don't attribute dictators as demons. I think humanity is capable of evil all on our own. Don't get me wrong, there are parts in the bible (such as King Saul in the book of Samuel, and the Pharoh in Exodus) that show humans being used as puppets. But we do have free will to a limited degree. We are capable of good and evil all on our own. We don't need scape goats. If you take away our responsibility for our actions, then what is the point of heaven or hell? Why bother with labelling sin at all? Why would it even matter?

But about the physics of it, religion aside. I want to explore other real world ramifications. The real world evidence is that the continents fit together perfectly in a Pangea style, but not just on one side, on ALL side. But you require a smaller Earth, which suggest Earth was at one point in time smaller. I suggest a transdimensional creation. I want to explore the physics of it. How can we prove it real or not?

Current Earth formation theories suggest that water came from asteroids and comets that crashed upon the Earth. This is important because Earth has formed in a region of the star system where water particles are shot away. Water does not exist in this region naturally. But the water ions of Earth are different from those found in comets. Don't get me wrong, it -appears- there is also water on Themis (an asteroid in the belt) that shouldn't survive there. More research still has to be done on that. But it is a possibility to explore. If Earth had a transdimensional origin, we would want to look for variations in our particles from the rest of the universe. In scifi terms, we would want to look at our planets energy signature and compare it to the rest of the universe. The water ions -could- be something along those lines. Personally, I would feel comfortable looking for particles closer to the Earths core. I want to find particles that have been shielded from the rest of the universe, and there might be contamination. This sounds far fetched, but when you look at how photons and electrons interact the concept of contamination looks more likely.

Could this be related to the moon mysteries? The size and distance of our moon? If our world was inserted into this universe, how does it relate to Luna? Did the insertion process require an already existing gravity to help form a bridge between dimensions? Was the moon also inserted into this dimension? The Earth's core and Luna's core compositions are very different chemically, so I would say that in terms of genesis they are different. But they do both have molten cores, so I'm not going to discount all similar function possibilities. We would need to know HOW the dimensional crossing works in order to say for sure. I am suspecting that at one point in time, the composition of the Earth's core acted as an antennae, a gateway into this dimension. It could be that the materials in the core only work as a receiver, and the origin dimension has a transmitter of different composition. I am interested in going back to the origin dimension, or at least manipulating matter between the two on some level. Contact would prove the theory, and would illuminate so much of physics. We would know where in M-theory our universe stands. Which is why exploring the genesis of Earth, and all the attributes involved is so interesting. The consequences of the theory, what they mean.

For instance, as Zeo pointed out in a PM, the value of the gravitational constant. If the Earth were still growing, there would be signs in gravity. So it is evident that who or whatever transmitted the matter/energy into this universe has evidently stopped for whatever reason. If it were entities from a dying universe that created us, if their universe were undergoing a 'big freeze', they would eventually lose contact with us. They would suffer time dilation. Their only hope would be to escape into this world. How would they do that and survive? (Sorry, I digress here) But a dying universe would have certain signs to look for when trying to make contact. Honestly, the big freeze and time dilation thing is from Michio Kaku's book. To me, a big crunch would be more likely for time dilation as you would increase the mass and density as planets and galaxies crunch together. I can see gravity breaking the dimensional barrier in such superdense clusters and becoming apparent to us as they pull our galaxies around. That very well -could- be our dark matter. Our dense stars -could- line up with their dense stars. The true question would be 'what density is required in order to make a transdimensional connection'? Another is 'Can you cheat it by using certain materials to -tune- matter into the phase of your target dimension'? How do you make the process survivable?

The mars rock samples are now a lot more interesting. The properties of the particles in those rocks are now worth very close scrutiny. That goes for every extra terrestrial material. We obviously have almost everything in common with them. We are made of atoms, in the same structure. But what are the differences, and what do they tell us?

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I don't have much in the fashion of personal views to add, but i would like to give you a quote of something and see what you think of this.

The following codes are given for starseeds, walk-ins and lightworkers involved in either the 1st or 2nd Grand Experiment or the Sirius B Catastrophe. Also those with a connection to Sanat Kumara. The codes are geometric and form an ancient and universal language known as Haburu. Instead of giving you just abstract geometric shapes such as lines and circles, it was decided long ago to embed these codes as symbols within stories. Since we humans are equipped with the unique ability to feel emotions, these various items would, when experienced through sight and sound, engender strong emotional reactions. And with those reactions would be a sense of knowing, of remembrance.

Each symbol embedded within the stories carries a time lock. Each time lock was destined to be released during a specific planetary alignment. That alignment will come about during the time of May 3-5, 2000. Hence the reason for explaining the codes now. Each code/symbol is connected to a specific major galactic event and its ensuing emotional wound. These major wounds are being replayed on Earth and will continue to be replayed until they are healed, and we must heal them because until we do, we will continue to repeat them even to the point that we destroy our planet in much the same way as we did the worlds involved in the major galactic wounds. Your mission is to heal your part of the event(s) in which you were involved. For that reason, we call them Earth Mission Codes.

As part of providing these codes they are separated into groups with each group representing a certain group of individuals and their soul group assignment. Please remember that you may find yourself drawn to symbols in each of the groups.

Let’s begin with the 1st Earth Grand Experiment and give the stories that contain its symbols along with an explanation of the overall mission for that group of individuals.

Lyran Avyon, the 1st Earth Grand Experiment

Located in the Vega star system of Lyra this was the first human colony and the original home of the Humans. This experiment ended with the first major war between the Humans and the Reptilians, who had settled on the neighboring planet. It set up the emotional block between the two races that has been passed down through the timelines, dimensions and generations to our present day.

* Story of Pegasus

* The Pelegai Symbol

* The Harp

* The Lion People

* The Dragon People

* The Great Pyramid

* The Goddesses Sekmet and Bast

* Egyptian Queen Hatshepsut of the 18th Dynasty

* Feng Shui

* The 13th sign of the zodiac, Ophiuchus

* The colors purple, lavender, and royal blue

* Chrysocola, Amethyst, Quartz crystal, and Aquamarine (blue)

* The ancient language called Haburu

* The 1st Great Galactic War

The Lyran or Pelegaian Group assignment is one of teaching polarity integration. These individuals find embracing the Dark side to be most natural and the concept of roles are an easy and logical concept for them to grasp.

These individuals feel most comfortable moving beyond the “love and light” belief system, preferring to show their real selves, i.e., their Dark sides as well as their Light sides. They have the intrinsic understanding that the Dark has significant value in the process of spiritual evolution. The Lyran soul group is being brought together even as we speak.

Pleiadian Avyon, the 2nd Earth Grand Experiment

Located in the Pleiadian Star System this was the second time polarity integration was attempted with the result being a polarization to the Light and eventual stagnation of spiritual growth. This planet was destroyed as a result the Andromedan Android Alliances’ attacks due to betrayal by a member of the ruling family during a civil war. Societal issues over the equality of the A.I’s and the division within the society that it created was a catalyst of this war. Another catalyst was the Sword of Truth; a long cylindrical crystal that contained the history of the planet and its feline/human inhabitants all the way back to their creation on the 1st Avyon, the 1st Grand

The primary mission of this soul group is to assist the people of earth in moving beyond the temptation to polarize to the light (unity consciousness out of balance becomes the hive mentality.) They are also here to move beyond the savior complex and reclaim the power they lost when they gave up their individuality by fighting the dark and attempting to eliminate it from their society. They must learn balance through embracing the Dark polarity in all it’s many forms

* A blue planet with 2 suns

* Camelot

* Avalon

* Excalibur, the sword

* King Author and his Knights

* Jesus, Mother Mary

* Merlin

* Nature spirits

* Wiccan

Sirius B Catastrophe and the 3rd Grand Experiment

Those of the Christos group, the Orion Black League and Sanat Kumara’s lineage are future the heirs of Earth and must work work to safeguard our environment. Certain of them bring the technology of the future that will restore the 3D earth as well as prepare us for a new 5D earth. But not only must they protect our planet, if they are reptilian/human hybrids, they must integrate these two parts of themselves in order to do so.

This group is led by Sanat Kumara, leader of the Orion Humans, planetary logos for Earth working with the Christos Office, and one of the Ascended Masters.

* Sirius B

* Orion Black League

* Sanat Kumara

* A white dove inside a circle of blue

* The cross

* Queen Hatshepsut, Pharoah Ankhnaten, and Queen Nefertiti of the 18th Dynasty

* The Goddesses Sekmet and Bast

* Sound, toning

* The Dolphins

* Mystery School Teachings

* Rose quartz

The Greater Nibiruan Council Group Assignment: Project Earth Shift

The Nibiruan Council group assignment is to assist the earth by providing the comprehensive educational program for the people of earth in order to help them create the additional grids around Earth. Each will be of a higher frequency and will provide the infrastructure for new dimensions of consciousness. The goal is to create grids all the way up to 9D at which point mankind will have the ability to integrate the Light and Dark to the degree that they will ascend the planet and end the Universal Game of Polarity Integration.

This comprehensive educational program will be provided through a “web of light” on the Internet. The “web of light” is a term used to indicate an interconnected web of web sites that provide various aspects of multidimensional education including the science of compassion. Those creating these web sites are the teachers and healers who are feeling the call to share their knowledge and help guide humanity through the coming changes. They will also bring about the new communities and the new economy.

* The Pleiades

* Nibiru, Anu, Enki, Enlil

* Orion

* Ancient Babylon and Sumeria

* The Star of David

* 12 Tribes of Israel

* Columns and Arch

* The Caduceus

* The colors gold and magenta

* Lapis Lazuli and Malachite

* Compassion

* Emotional clearing

* DNA realignment, reconnection and activation

You may find that you are drawn to symbols in each of the major three categories. That is to be expected since the groups work together on the overall plan for earth. Which group you most likely fit in can be determined by the amount of symbols that attract you within that category.

These symbols are being given to help you find clues to your mission particular mission. As you identify with one particular group over the others, make a verbal intent that you are willing to play your part and fulfill your assignment. Then watch to see how you begin to connect with people who have the same general mission and therefore, are part of your group. This is happening for me right now. I am meeting many lion and dragon people that share the Lyran group assignment. It is amazing!

One thing to remember, we have all done this before on the first and second Earth Grand Experiments and of course the Sirius B experience (not considered one of the grand experiments but close to it.) Each time we go through one of these experiences we move that much closer to learning how to achieve integration. It is believed that we have learned enough from those experiments to complete polarity integration this time around. Acceptance is the key, acceptance of all things, both Light and Dark, as having a value. Acceptance is the way out of blame, shame, guilt, depression and overall victimhood. Acceptance is compassion in action!

We have been given the Multidimensional Keys of Compassion to achieve acceptance. Now is our time. We knew it was coming. Time to step up to the plate and verbally accept your mission. Say to your guides, “I am willing to take on my mission even though I do not know what all it will entail, I am willing to do it anyway. So be it, let it be done.” If you are one who has been searching for your mission, this verbal intent will cause it to begin to manifest. I can guarantee it. So hold on to your hats as your world begins to change and people, opportunities and funding come forth for you to complete your assignment.

Know that there will be blocks, but these are your fuel for ascension. Use The Multidimensional Keys of Compassion to clear them and keep moving on. You have plenty of help and emotional support available to you, but the ultimate power to achieve your mission is already within you.

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My thoughts on that are the same as my thoughts on Scientology. They made a wild claim. But ok, wild claims may be possible. So to back it up. How exactly did they come about this information? That is the key. Scientology looks like it was just made up. And this? They are claiming there is a galactic language that we can all subconsciously read. So how come none of the rest of us are reading it? Why bother writing this out in English? Wouldn't writing it out in the ancient language be more efficient?

Don't get me wrong, the idea of learning to live together and not break down into war is a good one. But I don't need a flaky scifi story to entice me to do it. The value of peace itself is worth it

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I can't fit it in Ryuki because it's a story with no supporting evidence to match the theory. I speculated that the old testament might fit in because if you consider the first chapter of Genesis as a poetic description, it could work. Modern Archeology suggests that Yhwh was only one deity in a pantheon, so I suggested that the entire pantheon may have been the ones to engineer this world. I could just as easily pick Gaia as the one whom engineered this world. I don't know. A government history with no physical evidence is difficult to pin down. Thus far, my whole solid theory simply rests on the Earth growing bigger at one point in its creation.

For all I know, the Ainu were right (original Japanese natives, before the Mongols colonized and became the modern Japanese). In their tradition, all the world was water, until a golden chain hung from the sky, and something about it's pointing down (light beam, I forget) brings the land up from the water. That is an equally valid theory. If a space ship or something increased the size of Earth with some kind of mass transfer or mass manipulator? If you listen to some of their ancient hero legends, you here tails of power armor that wraps around you and allows you to teleport through the clouds. To separate myths from facts is very difficult. But I can see this as possible, I mean, with a smaller Earth, with a global pangea, Hudson's bay is the only major body of water left uncovered by land. Though I don't know what the mineral deposits under it say about impacts.

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ah ok, that's fair enough.

I was just thinking that with the suggestion that this earth was created for a continuation, it seemed similar to what was suggested in that quote. that there were earlier earths and this is the 3rd one.

but i understand why this doesn't fit in because you are not looking for things to philosophise about, you are looking to discuss how it fits with the theory.

got it.

so would i be right in understanding that perhaps yhwh was a being just like you or me, that had found a way through science to extend his life millenia and further. of course, advanced technology like that, makes sense they could put matter through a dimensional gateway.

have you seen an anime called utawarerumono? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utawarerumono

this contains similar themes.

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  • 1 month later...

I have heard of the Gospel of Judas before, but only search for information about it when I read this just now. Apparently, it seems to suggest that Judas was commanded by Jesus to betray him. I find this interesting indeed. It's like a conspiracy theory that is hidden in ancient times and was only revealed after thousands of years.

If you look at it, it is plausible. I mean, the crucifiction is one of the most prominent scene in Christian History. And without the aid of a "betrayer", that would not have happened. Although I'm still skeptical as to the true intention and feeling of Judas at that time, since we are unsure if his betrayal was an act of love or an act of trecheary.

Early Christian does have the account to act violently on information which they deem to be heretic in nature. It would not surprise me if this is also linked to other documents which were destroyed by early christians.

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  • 1 month later...

Have you finished reading the Torah?

I find it very fascinating. The numbers that were involved there. Archeology shows us (based on the cities that are currently unpopulated, the ones we can actually dig up), that the battles that conquered these cities, from Canaanite to Israel are actually much smaller than those described in the bible. Archeology shows us that the numbers were exaggerated. I'm thinking that the numbers are possibly suggesting something else. Bare with me

Take a look at the ark of the Covenant. Take a look at all the paraphernalia surrounding it. It describes techniques used to build the Ark. Simply having dimensions and composition was not enough. That is very important. It describes the gold being hammered instead of cast. Do you know the difference that makes? In material science, that 'can' be a big one. For instance, forged wrenches are stronger than cast wrenches. Take a look at the effect of the incense burners. That specific oils are described.

Also take a look at the skin diseases that are constantly mentioned. It mentions them as if there were some importance. It describes a baldness as being unclean, but makes a description to differentiate it from regular 'clean' baldness. I'm thinking that this is a description of radiation sickness. If the Ark and its paraphernalia were built as dimensional transceivers, then it would support the idea that Earth was injected into this universe.

I'm told there is a part in the old testament that describes in detail the tower of Babyl, and I'm eargerly looking forward to it. They mention the story briefly in the Torah. I know the story according the Babylonian legend, and it is described more as a weapons platform, as they actually attack the heavens and hurt the gods (they fire arrows, and when they arrows fall to Earth, they are stained with blood). It would be very interesting to me to see some stats on the Tower's construction.

What is sad is that the composition of the Ark and it's paraphernalia is different compared to the center of the Earth. I'd love to be able to experiment further with this in a laboratory. I mean, if both set ups have transdimensional effects, but in different ways, this could seriously provide a deeper understanding of particle physics.

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