Rewrite Choices

[Sully]

I'm sure with the war raging on outside and energy blasts tearing into it's body , the ship has enough sense to realize that it more than likely won't survive for long and will seek other means to preserve itself.

Thing is "it's body" isn't exactly in a good shape. The ship is efectively a vegitative cripple that has being crash langed on land, shot apart a few times, ripped into different dimensions, etc etc. If it wasn't for the fact the control medals of the ship had a little common sense and shilded some of the important areas of the ship with what little energy it had left most of the units wouldn't have made it. Some units didn't make it completely either (e.g. the Proto-Type WG units. 2 of them where damaged). If you've seen a data file on the chips they have a brain section outside the control medals for operations of the organism... simply put that brain is squished and spread over the Outback.

Chronos isn't also fighting for the units inside it. It wants the mess of the ship so it can form the base of an even larger and bigger "Ark". Question is will it get that?

[Sully]

Anyway back on topic. Should we or should we not use those two characters from the book has they are now?

[Juggernought]

Or maybe someone will get the bright idea to teleport ssections of the ship away at a time as much as can be handled....

But yea i think you should add them both because it would help the stories maintain links to the original manga and for new stories coming out in the future these characters could also effect the outcomes much more significantly...plus you wouldn't have to worry about introducing a new character and how they'd fit in. You have these ones already established.

[McAvoy]

Yes on the characters but no Exceed.

I forgot about the Relic brain.

[Sully]

Yes on the characters but no Exceed.

By having Aptom Omega you pretty much follow the books so Exceed is the pain you pay for him getting that upgrade. Also Exceed is cannon (while I'll never use it again, fact is it happened).

[Artillerus]

if exceed is sued then would that character not be far more powerful than black nova dreadnought or even w'kar, from what I have read a guyver gigantic is 20x the power of a standard unit and exceed is the full powered for of guyver gigantic

[guyverfanatic]

if exceed is sued then would that character not be far more powerful than black nova dreadnought or even w'kar, from what I have read a guyver gigantic is 20x the power of a standard unit and exceed is the full powered for of guyver gigantic

Exceed is not going to be included in the fanfiction.

[Sully]

if exceed is sued then would that character not be far more powerful than black nova dreadnought or even w'kar, from what I have read a guyver gigantic is 20x the power of a standard unit and exceed is the full powered for of guyver gigantic

Exceed is not going to be included in the fanfiction.

See this is why I'm giving you guys a chance to decide some of these things (basically part of slapping the Fan-Fic back into Shape and bringing it in line somewhat with the Canon story form Takaya). But to give you insight into how I'd see this playing out a little:

Exceed will happen if Omega Blast Aptom is used in the fan-fiction. So basically events of book 26 will be pretty much the same has in the Fan-Fiction only the Dragon Lord will survive and Apollon would have never entered the story (basically the character is not compatable ("at the moment") with the Kavzar idea of the fiction and WAY too much has being done with the Aceaer Cast etc up to Enforcers for us to drop that to be in favour with Canon). Also to avoid any ideas of the Gigantic having some sort of collectivemmeory store and the hosility that should still be there with Sho and Agito for Union (Sho would still not trust Agito fully) Gigantic Dark will not be used in Union after the Re-write.

Sooo what would Exceed bring to the fan-fiction.

First question would be would I use it much. No very unlikely. I don't think Sho has a character would use it a lot too. Basically it took a large tole on the city and in the end he sees himself has a protector. Basically he'll not use it unless he has too and even then after an exteame loss (someone being killed or some numbers of people being killed).

Second question would be overall powerlevel. I don't like using X here, X gives the idea that all powers increase equally has 1x goes to 2x etc. That's too basic. Overall Gigantic Exceed would equal Dreadnought on raw power scales for period of time. With the exceeds Giga-smasher being possibly deadiler than Dreadnought's (it's simply bigger and wider).

Overall this would mean a Normal Guyver has the chance of being has powerful has Zeus or Dreadnought for a short period of time. Is that a bad thing? No in the end Dreadnought is has powerful has he is all the time and simply was too powerful has an idea in the old way. But it does mean he's no longer stupidly powerful in Canon terms which is something I quite like. in fact he stay's what I imagined him has the Warrior Guyver to be like. Which was a more stable Gigantic. Now that I know better this will be even more correct.

In the fan-fiction there are only two Gigantic's. One on a relitively new Female Guyver 3 and Sho. Both would be capable of the above (with Omega Aptom or not bare in mind I'll not ingore Canon and they are capable of doing it even if I don't use it). Shizu though would be more likely to use Exceed than Sho IF she can figure out how.So do not be surprised if it appears in the Fan-Fiction properly too if the story warrants it.

Dreadnought or Zeus going "Exceed"? They have the potential of it yes. But will they? "no comment :P"

Joking aside no they'll not has I don't think it's overly cool. In fact apart from the one Canon event I'll not use it. But I'll not ignore that it never happened in the past. Sho will simply in fan-fiction terms not want to use that power and Agito will simply not know of it (remember he was on the other side of the world at the time).

the Dragon Lord will also be... ummm "changed" after his capture (Imakarum will most likely bitch slap him for what he has done) and not capable of obsorbing has many zoanoids to increase in body size efectly removing the need to Sho to go Exceed. He'll still be overall large and have massive power levels to do attacks he did in the comics but no longer need the raw Size (tbh Chronos don't want the costs either of what he did to happen again even if Alkanphel somewhat forgives him and the other 2 Zoalords for what they did - to those that don't know Chronos has a uprising happening in the comics and the Dragon Lord baiscally took over a Chronos building and absorbed ALL of Tokoyo's zoanoids to make a supersized "Dragon" and Gigantic went "exceed" too kill him).

[largo]

But what about shizu will you fix her to be canon?

[Sully]

But what about shizu will you fix her to be canon?

She already has being. Note Allen's fiction.

[McAvoy]

The way I look at it is if Exceed is introduced to WG.com then soon or later the whole story will become like the old Power Ranger series. Start off small, then go to huge size when someone cannot be defeated. On top of that there are many characters that could possess this ability. A Dreadnought Exceed would be far, far too powerful.

If you do not include Exceed than what about Khan? He has the ability to absorb zoanoids and become much larger. Are you going to redo his form/abilities? Maybe that smaller form he had after his Dragonlord form was destroyed could be his new Battleform as a Elite?

With new estimates on the Gigantic and therefore zoalords power, how powerful will Elites become? Right now Gigantic Guyver is much more powerful than any of the Supreme Zoalords and perhaps a near equal to a dying Alkanphel. Warrior Guyver will be weaker than a Gigantic Guyver, so how much of a threat will he truly be against a Zoalord?

[Sully]

The way I look at it is if Exceed is introduced to WG.com then soon or later the whole story will become like the old Power Ranger series. Start off small, then go to huge size when someone cannot be defeated. On top of that there are many characters that could possess this ability. A Dreadnought Exceed would be far, far too powerful.

See this is where I differ. In the end this is a fan-fiction of Guyver. You may not like the Exceed idea but ignoring isn't something I'd do for the getting Omega Aptom. In the end it's ingore something canon from Takaya. But making it not happen again is possible. Sho won't exactly be doing it again because of the cost of human life. Dreadnought and Zeus too will simply never do it. Has I said above McAvoy apart from this one event the Exceed version of the Gigantic will not be used again. Simply put I too don't like it but I'll not ingore Canon.

If you do not include Exceed than what about Khan? He has the ability to absorb zoanoids and become much larger. Are you going to redo his form/abilities? Maybe that smaller form he had after his Dragonlord form was destroyed could be his new Battleform as a Elite?

Has I said above. Khan will be modified.

With new estimates on the Gigantic and therefore zoalords power, how powerful will Elites become? Right now Gigantic Guyver is much more powerful than any of the Supreme Zoalords and perhaps a near equal to a dying Alkanphel. Warrior Guyver will be weaker than a Gigantic Guyver, so how much of a threat will he truly be against a Zoalord?

See this is where X has an idea fails badly. A Zoalord isn't basically 2x or 10x etc. They have completely different range of powers and abilities and measuring them against a Guyver and putting X against it doesn't work. Yes a Gigantic Guyver is more powerful than most Zoalords apart from Alkanphel. Only Imakarum has managed to take one down (mostly due to Sho's inability to kill him) only for him to get into a fight right afterwards with Gigantic Dark and lose. The Elite change to them is not only to break them from the Creators but some other fancy stuff (basically better Regen to a Neo-Class level and extra ranged powers to make the other Zoalords more on par with Imakarum's abilities combined with their own).

Now where does Warrior Guyver come into this at base level. Basically they are still the same at basically 4 times that of a Guyver. Making him weaker than a Gigantic Guyver (has I said before on the board that's a good idea). Would Warrior Guyver be capable of killing a Zoalord. Yes a normal Guyver can if he hit a zoalord with a full mega-smash (apart from Alkanphel). Warrior Guyver still has better regen than most and near impossible to kill. Stamina level has well for Warrior Guyver is off the par making him increadibly hard to kill. Warrior Guyver's main treath is that he won't die easily and won't stop. I might also keep that Warrior Guyver's hyper-blades are more efficent than that of Gigantic. Apart from that he's simply out powered by one over the short term.

[Weltall2]

The way I look at it is if Exceed is introduced to WG.com then soon or later the whole story will become like the old Power Ranger series. Start off small, then go to huge size when someone cannot be defeated. On top of that there are many characters that could possess this ability. A Dreadnought Exceed would be far, far too powerful.

See this is where I differ. In the end this is a fan-fiction of Guyver. You may not like the Exceed idea but ignoring isn't something I'd do for the getting Omega Aptom. In the end it's ingore something canon from Takaya. But making it not happen again is possible. Sho won't exactly be doing it again because of the cost of human life. Dreadnought and Zeus too will simply never do it. Has I said above McAvoy apart from this one event the Exceed version of the Gigantic will not be used again. Simply put I too don't like it but I'll not ingore Canon.

Alright Exceed is part of canon. So what? Brian you said it yourself, 'this is a fanfic.' Exceed to me is too gofey to include. I mean is this supposed to be a copy of Takaya or is it supposed to be yours. Also Takaya has waffled on the powers of the Guyver for years. Another thing if you aknowledge Exceed it is impossible for no one to notice it in the fanfiction. What I mean is it doesn't matter if Agito is on the other side of the world, he will find out.Exceed is simply too big. literally. I understand your disire to bring the fanfiction more in line with canon. However even if you take the gigantization of exceed out of the picture, I truly believe you are overcompensating for Dreadnought, and other characters. I think you are painting yourself into the same trap as before with Dreadnought and Zeus. Though I think you are overly critical of the formula you have currently. Yes Dreadnought is incredibly strong. However Cronos has the ability to make Bio-Titans, and Glidden to compensate for their lack of powerful Guyvers. Further the reason Exceed is necessary, is because the only real resistance is Sho, and Agito. Such is not the case here. However instead of saying no outright, I suggest you test this concept of Exceed in your story, and see how it meshes with what you have created. At the same time leave yourself a back up if this doesn't work as you envisioned.

Personally I could care less about Exceed being canon or not, I like what we have here. It just needs some spit shine.

[largo]

But what about shizu will you fix her to be canon?

She already has being. Note Allen's fiction.

Which one GWOTG, W'kar, or Angel?

[Sully]

But what about shizu will you fix her to be canon?

She already has being. Note Allen's fiction.

Which one GWOTG, W'kar, or Angel?

It was in the W'Kar or Angel stories, can't remmber which off hand but will let you guys have a look .

Alright Exceed is part of canon. So what? Brian you said it yourself, 'this is a fanfic.' Exceed to me is too gofey to include. I mean is this supposed to be a copy of Takaya or is it supposed to be yours. Also Takaya has waffled on the powers of the Guyver for years. Another thing if you aknowledge Exceed it is impossible for no one to notice it in the fanfiction. What I mean is it doesn't matter if Agito is on the other side of the world, he will find out.Exceed is simply too big. literally. I understand your disire to bring the fanfiction more in line with canon. However even if you take the gigantization of exceed out of the picture, I truly believe you are overcompensating for Dreadnought, and other characters. I think you are painting yourself into the same trap as before with Dreadnought and Zeus. Though I think you are overly critical of the formula you have currently. Yes Dreadnought is incredibly strong. However Cronos has the ability to make Bio-Titans, and Glidden to compensate for their lack of powerful Guyvers. Further the reason Exceed is necessary, is because the only real resistance is Sho, and Agito. Such is not the case here. However instead of saying no outright, I suggest you test this concept of Exceed in your story, and see how it meshes with what you have created. At the same time leave yourself a back up if this doesn't work as you envisioned.

Personally I could care less about Exceed being canon or not, I like what we have here. It just needs some spit shine.

See here's the thing guys and Matt touched on this in a big way when he explained why he stopped writing. This is a fan-fiction site. What we did with the story was good but it got to the stage where it was a)no longer fun and b) no longer felt like a Guyver fan-fiction. Both of those reason's equally lead too the fan-fiction going into a stall that's lasted 2 years.

Here's the thing you can thank for getting me back in the writing mood. The more recent Guyver stories of Takaya. Yes Exceed was... odd but not has bad has a lot of people feel. With Khan's death the chances of thise being used again would be small (do you know any other super sized people out there?). Takaya is a fan of Godzilla so pretty much that was his "Godzilla" moment. We can forgive him for that considering the great story he's given us.

Around the Exceed story Takaya had some great story involving Aptom and how he got his new form. It's being used to great effect since, without him for example Guyver 2 F would be dead has those Enzyme had her number for example. In fact most Enzyme 3's have met there end thanks to either the Bio-Freezer or his powers being used by Aptom. By takaing that away you take away a great part of the story.

But taking it away (in other words writing out Exceed) doesn't fix the situation. Khan still is there. Has a plot device he still needs to be dealth with somehow. He still has to betray Chronos and be captured. We know now what his powers are so we'll end up with what Dragon Loard v?????

The Fan-Fiction has to follow some logic and structure. Characters do thing for a reason. W'Kar training Giglamesh for example just to screw with Jason. Him telling Jason to his face, because while he thinks he's a boy scout he quite likes him has a person and gets a kick out of his reaction. It makes a some what screwed up sense, but importantly it makes sense.

The problem the fiction still has is it doesn't make sense reading it how it sprung up from the Takaya books, the live action Movies to what you read now in 7 Days. There isn't a lot of tie in stories, in fact it's barely mentioned. The sad fact of the matter is it should has I planned it out that way but the plan got messy. The re-writes will fix a LOT of that giving a lot more back story.

For the cost of One Exceed event personally I think it's worth it for the story that happened around it. This would normally get a no comment from me but being honest you guys should have known this years ago with 7 Days was completed:

Agito - no longer has his Gigantic unit. Being blantely honest even after the re-write he'll not use it much anyway by the time he's found the Warrior Guyver 3 unit. So chance of him wanting or staying Exceed? 0% pretty much. So again plot wise not something to be concerned about.

Sho - soon will also no longer have his unit too. Along with that he'll learn a lot of the cost of what Exceed done to the city. As such much like when he lost his ability to become Guyver after killing his father he'll simply not want to go Exceed. It's not like he's going to wake up one morning and think "Ummm I'll go super sized again and stand on some zoanoids for a laugh!!! muhahahaha!".

Dreadnought and Zues concerns - Will they Exceed?

Simply put no. James will be called in for a edit of the Data-files here to reflect this. Basically Zues and Dreadnought can't go Exceed for a simple reason. They are already using a controlled Exceed mode (minus the super sizing) that is controlled through their HSL system. This is part of the "new" reason they are has powerful has they are. Don't like saying X, but roughly speaking if you where to use x Zues = 20x and Dreadnought = 25x

Ummm what about the new hosts? Shizu and unknown person?

Sho's unit will be removed and replaced with something... fancy. So his unit will be going to... someone. New person simply will not know how and will not be put up against susper sized giant's so there will ne no reason for him/her to learn how to Exceed.

Shizu - see unknown person for reason she'll not be going exceed.

[*zeo]

This all breaks down to how Takaya has designed the Guyver. . . We all know the armor is "Bio-Booster" but how hasn't been really understood. It's more like how an amplifier works by drawing on a higher power source to increase the power of the lower power source.

In this case the host is infused with energy from the Boost Dimension whenever the Guyver activates and power is maintained as a trickle charge is siphoned by gravity control orbs.

Takaya took the Gigantic a significant step higher by granting it the ability to directly amplify the host unit power with the Power Amp crystals. Infusing the Guyver with even more energy and added control in order to use that power effectively.

Even then limitation with the Giga Smashers showed the Gigantic to be essentially a capacitor of power.

So Takaya has been working towards the Exceed from the very beginning, we just never saw it coming.

Making the Exceed the true power of the Gigantic personified. But there are limitations. . .

1) It took an incredible will to bring it about, Sho not only ripped the Gigantic from Agito but locked him out completely. Sho, is rarely so strongly motivated. And though any Gigantic Guyver may have the potential, the will needed would be very hard to muster.

Agito for example, had the Gigantic for quite some time and yet was never able to activate it. Though it may have had something to do with not knowing, the Guyver does enacts the will of the host and Agito's inability to deal with Sho at that moment could easily mean he does not have the Will to create the Exceed form. Further limiting it's possible future use.

2) It took time for the Exceed form to be created, meaning there is a limit to how much energy could be siphoned at any one time. Similarly with the Abyss weapon.

So Brian is right that Dreadnought is unlikely to go Exceed, since he is already siphoning so much energy from the Boost Dimension.

Even if he could, it would take even longer than Sho had and leave him vulnerable for a longer period of time. Just like how the Smashers, though powerful, leave the unit more vulnerable to attack.

3) Exceed needed the back thrusters to fly up, at least fast enough to catch up to Khan, meaning the increased mass makes it harder for him to fly.

This actually fits with real life physics as mass increases at twice the rate of size. So even though density would not be too high, being mostly filled with energy, that the increased mass means speed is not proportionally greater but may be even less.

4) The Exceed still pales in comparison to Archanphel's full power as the power needed to destroy a asteroid the size of a small planet goes beyond anything else we have seen in the fit to date.

But aside from Khan there really isn't a reason for Exceed unless Archanphel forces it.

All combined with Brian's points on collateral damage and the rarity of opportunity means we are very unlikely to ever see the Exceed form again unless there is no other choice.

[McAvoy]

See this is where X has an idea fails badly. A Zoalord isn't basically 2x or 10x etc. They have completely different range of powers and abilities and measuring them against a Guyver and putting X against it doesn't work. Yes a Gigantic Guyver is more powerful than most Zoalords apart from Alkanphel. Only Imakarum has managed to take one down (mostly due to Sho's inability to kill him) only for him to get into a fight right afterwards with Gigantic Dark and lose. The Elite change to them is not only to break them from the Creators but some other fancy stuff (basically better Regen to a Neo-Class level and extra ranged powers to make the other Zoalords more on par with Imakarum's abilities combined with their own).

I understand this. Believe me. This is what is called paper vs. real world. On paper, Guyver X is 4x with X amount of abilities at Y Power. But in real life, skills, motivation and other factors that really cannot be reliably put on paper can be used. Take for example sports, one team may be superior to the opposing team, but morale and drive/push may allow the inferior team to win.

But generally, using the concept of Guyver/Zoalord is X as powerful, is very generalized form of comparing overall power. Most of the people on these boards understand even during the early days that no fanfic Guyver is truly 4x or whatever.

But I see what you are talking about. Elites will be more efficient than they were as a Supreme Zoalord.

[Sully]

But I see what you are talking about. Elites will be more efficient than they were as a Supreme Zoalord.

Exactly, will make things interesting but not sutiply powerful that they are unkillable by even a standard Guyver (even Alkanphel cought totally unaware without his defense up would be killable by a normal Guyver technically), but make it so if they did fight a Gigantic Guyver a hole in their chest from a signle power punch wouldn't kill them off has it does now.

To bring this topic to conclusion. You guys have being of great help in bringing the choice together.

Guyver 2 F - will be in the fan-fiction. But will die sometime between when she appeared in the Books and the Union Story (that I'll leave very vauge for the moment). Female Guyver 2 (the Valcuria from another universe) will get a more hostile reaction from Chronos because of what her alternative reality self did. Though still has in the fan-fiction before join Chronos after the realise she's not the Guyver 2 F.

Omega Aptom - Will happen in the fan-fiction (so expect a much different start to the Union story after the re-write). Note he'll still be upgraded by absorbing a Proto Zoalord so those powers he had before will basically mix with that of Murakami (will let your imaginations run there).

[Guyver_Astray]

Ummm what about the new hosts? Shizu and unknown person?

Sho's unit will be removed and replaced with something... fancy. So his unit will be going to... someone. New person simply will not know how and will not be put up against susper sized giant's so there will ne no reason for him/her to learn how to Exceed.

Shizu - see unknown person for reason she'll not be going exceed.

I read that correctly? Sho, the original protagonist of Guyver, will get any upgrade?

[Juggernought]

I think it will be something technological based and not bio-organic. He's not too fond of being a guyver so i doubt he'd want to replace one unit for another. So maybe it's something he can call on and off at will but also can discard it when he's tired of all the fighting. Perhaps similar to Iron Man's Extremis armor.

[Sully]

Ummm what about the new hosts? Shizu and unknown person?

Sho's unit will be removed and replaced with something... fancy. So his unit will be going to... someone. New person simply will not know how and will not be put up against susper sized giant's so there will ne no reason for him/her to learn how to Exceed.

Shizu - see unknown person for reason she'll not be going exceed.

I read that correctly? Sho, the original protagonist of Guyver, will get any upgrade?

Yes, Sho will be getting a "new" unit.

I think it will be something technological based and not bio-organic. He's not too fond of being a guyver so i doubt he'd want to replace one unit for another. So maybe it's something he can call on and off at will but also can discard it when he's tired of all the fighting. Perhaps similar to Iron Man's Extremis armor.

I wouldn't aggree there. Sho may orginally never wanted to be a Guyver. Yes that was the case. But in recent books from Takaya, Sho doesn't exactly like being a Guyver. But he's accpeted it and has taken the role of protector and uses it so that his friends will be safe. He see's himself and that of his firends in Japan has the risitance.

So taking that into account. Yes will the oppertinity to get a new unit rivaling the Gigantic in power comes up without the draw backs of Stamina being limited. Sho takes it. There will be a cost to this though. Has the ending of 7 days shows a little of how political it's getting (see W'Kar's chat with Jason in his recent fiction for a hint, he wasn't far wrong. this also goes back to what Sean said in the Dark hero).

[Guyver_Astray]

So with this "fancy" new unit, who will the old unit fall to? I highly doubt it would fall to Mizuki. A new character maybe?

[Sully]

So with this "fancy" new unit, who will the old unit fall to? I highly doubt it would fall to Mizuki. A new character maybe?

No Comment

[guyverfanatic]

I'd like to see Sho get a Praetorian unit like Faye! Not that will happen of course...

[McAvoy]

I'd say that is possible especially if Show is looking for a unit as powerful as a Gigantic but without the stamina limitations.

He could end up getting a normal Warrior unit too or something different.

Omega Aptom would definitely help Sho since Agito and him will not be as close as they were originally protrayed in the fanfictin. Though it would be a great character story about a showdown between Sho and Agito about past sins.