Guyver Derzerb

[guyverfanatic]

I believe the new strength figure for Darzerb is 60 men combined with this unit, based off the ratio that Guyver Powered Zerebubuse has: I'd estimate him to be about between 48x to 60x. May be as high as 80x.

Sounds about right to me.

[largo]

Wow physically he could kick the crap out of dread in a good old fist fight.

[Zoaknight]

HOLY drenn...So basically there is now a Hyper Zoanoid walking around wearing a Guyver unit designed to be equal in power to a Guyver Gigantic...Meaning that Black Guyver Derzerb is likely the most powerful Guyver Zoanoid of all at this point in time since he possesses a more advanced unit than Guyver Powered Zerebubuse (not to mention his unit lacks the power limiter and extinction device located in all modern Creator test units, so unlike Guyver Powered Zerebubuse Guyver Derzerb is operating at full power and can't be taken out by creator forces with the same ease as Krullnar and Draven's test units).

I too was majorly impressed by his flamebreath's power...Do ya think its more destructive than his megasmasher? Less so? or just as?

[guyverfanatic]

HOLY ****...So basically there is now a Hyper Zoanoid walking around wearing a Guyver unit designed to be equal in power to a Guyver Gigantic...Meaning that Black Guyver Derzerb is likely the most powerful Guyver Zoanoid of all at this point in time since he possesses a more advanced unit than Guyver Powered Zerebubuse (not to mention his unit lacks the power limiter and extinction device located in all modern Creator test units, so unlike Guyver Powered Zerebubuse Guyver Derzerb is operating at full power and can't be taken out by creator forces with the same ease as Krullnar and Draven's test units).

I too was majorly impressed by his flamebreath's power...Do ya think its more destructive than his megasmasher? Less so? or just as?

A black unit is more powerful than a regular unit, but no where near that of a gigantic guyver.

[McAvoy]

I think he meant the old power level of the Gigantic not the new one.

Yeah he's much harder than Guyver Powered Zerebubuse to kill because of no such extinction device. However the Creators at this point in time could take down a Guyver Zoalord, so I'd think they can handle a mere Black Guyver Darzerb.

[Zoaknight]

I think he meant the old power level of the Gigantic not the new one.

Yeah he's much harder than Guyver Powered Zerebubuse to kill because of no such extinction device. However the Creators at this point in time could take down a Guyver Zoalord, so I'd think they can handle a mere Black Guyver Darzerb.

I'm pretty sure the advents still lack anything in their arsenal that can defeat a Guyver Zoalord's raw destructive power, Jason only won against Reeve because...

1) Jason's Warrior Guyver unit's special features (his ability to absorb & fire back gravity attacks for example)

2) Jason had backup from an entire army of Zoalords and Guyvers to boost his gravity attacks (and the Zoalords were armed with unit removers)

3) Reeve, though extremely powerful as a Guyver Zoalord, was ignorant of the Warrior Guyver's capabilities and completely drunk on his own power, basically he sowed the seed's of his own destruction by underestimating Jason in the end.

Long story short, if another Guyver Zoalord emerged (armed with a unit lacking an extinction device like Krullnar's test units) he or she would be able to plow its way through creator warriors and fleets easily, especially if the guyver unit it wielded was more advanced than a standard unit OR if the Zoalord in question was extremely powerful to begin with (remember, Reeve himself was actually a "weak" Zoalord compared to the likes of Chronos's Zoalords, a Guyver Master Zoalord would be unbeatable).

[Sully]

This isn't exactly secret and through looking the forum or fics you should be able to pic this up.

Strangely the old Zoalord + Dreadnought armour = ulitmate bad ass doesn't work any more. It hasn't worked ever in fact througout all the story (though back in the days it was explained differently). Basically ALL Units that somehow had contact with Gen or tech from the Gen has being modified so hat they only work with a certain base level of host. So yeas a Zoanoid would make it more powerful, there is a stage where you get returns a lot less than you'd expect.

E.G. Zerabubuse "SHOULD" in a Guyver unit be devestating. The laser fire from his arms alone would wipe out anything curently in the fan-fic. But ask yourself what happened? Dreadnought killed him. So ask yourself why?

The reason being his Unit was a test unit. It's efectively a normal unit when a human puts it on it would be the same as Guyver 1 in power levels. Zoalords, hyper zoanoids would all be queueing up saying "Yeppie unlimited power!!!Give!!!". But they would be no more powerful than a Gigantic Guyver should be.

There is a part in 7 days 7 where Krullnar is thinking about his plans, he comment on how he modifed this on the Unit to be given to Powered Zerebubuse so he would be more powerful than his limitation should be.

Sooo out of all the Unit's in the fan-fiction, the only ones who could truely be all powerful are:

1 Guyver 1's old unit.

2. Shizu's current active unit.

3. The Black Units.

But note, the Black Unit's that will be replicated by the Grakken... Would they after going through a Gen replicating device be un modified?

As for a true Guyver Zoalord, no nothing would stop him, like Reeve the only way a Guyver zoalord would be stopped was if one of it's powerful attacks was somehow turned in on itself and destroyed the host.

[Zoaknight]

This isn't exactly secret and through looking the forum or fics you should be able to pic this up.

Strangely the old Zoalord + Dreadnought armour = ulitmate bad ass doesn't work any more. It hasn't worked ever in fact througout all the story (though back in the days it was explained differently). Basically ALL Units that somehow had contact with Gen or tech from the Gen has being modified so hat they only work with a certain base level of host. So yeas a Zoanoid would make it more powerful, there is a stage where you get returns a lot less than you'd expect.

E.G. Zerabubuse "SHOULD" in a Guyver unit be devestating. The laser fire from his arms alone would wipe out anything curently in the fan-fic. But ask yourself what happened? Dreadnought killed him. So ask yourself why?

The reason being his Unit was a test unit. It's efectively a normal unit when a human puts it on it would be the same as Guyver 1 in power levels. Zoalords, hyper zoanoids would all be queueing up saying "Yeppie unlimited power!!!Give!!!". But they would be no more powerful than a Gigantic Guyver should be.

There is a part in 7 days 7 where Krullnar is thinking about his plans, he comment on how he modifed this on the Unit to be given to Powered Zerebubuse so he would be more powerful than his limitation should be.

Sooo out of all the Unit's in the fan-fiction, the only ones who could truely be all powerful are:

1 Guyver 1's old unit.

2. Shizu's current active unit.

3. The Black Units.

But note, the Black Unit's that will be replicated by the Grakken... Would they after going through a Gen replicating device be un modified?

As for a true Guyver Zoalord, no nothing would stop him, like Reeve the only way a Guyver zoalord would be stopped was if one of it's powerful attacks was somehow turned in on itself and destroyed the host.

I remember the power limiter mentioned in part 7 of seven days of hell, its the reason why Alkanphel hasn't ditched his current unit for a complete unit, because he knows or suspects the existence of the limiter and that it wouldn't give him the ultimate power he desires (so its suspected that he wants to upgrade his incomplete unit using Chronos tech & ingenuity until actually functions like a real guyver and gives him the ultimate power he wants, or at least thats what the good guys think his plan was, now Al's in a cocoon going through god knows what sort of changes ).

So basically for a second true Guyver Zoalord to be born it would have to bond with either an ancient guyver unit predating Krullnar's test units (modern Gen tech) or a unit from another dimension like the black units & warrior units found on the relic everyone was fighting over (and all those units are currently bonded to hosts already)

[Juggernought]

Don't the Grakkens modify their units to work only with Grakkens anyway? I think the only reason that one guy got the destroyer armor was because they modified that particular unit to work with a human.

[McAvoy]

Originally I would agree with you. But since they produce their units through their Creator Unit Cloner Thingie, I doubt the Black Unit could be modified just yet.

Since the Grakken unit has a third layer naturally on their control medal, it had to have been modified by them unless of course that unit they used was another unit the Creators made themselves and then got captured by the Grakkens and cloned.

[Zoaknight]

I would think that the replicator the grakken possess would have been taken or created long before the advents created the power limit or extinction device technology, BUT, i can believe that they would alter the replicated black guyver units to only bond with grakken (that is how their own current guyver units work right?). However, since the Black Guyver tech is completly new to them it might take them time to pull that off...Also, the Grakken basically clone their guyver units using that replicator device, they may not be advanced enough to alter and modify guyver units to their liking like the advents can. The power staffs and destroyer armor the grakken use are upgrades based around their own technology rather than creator tech, like the killer robots i think.

[McAvoy]

That is pretty much what I am saying.

Grakkens were able to modify their current units because they had them for a long time. The new Black unit however will take time. Especially if the Creators of GWotG operate differently then the Creators of the WG universe.

[Juggernought]

It may take a shorter time since they had all those years to study and alter their own units. The information derived from that would more than likely cut the research time down for these units.

Plus that queen as got a lot of breeding to do in order to make up for all those warriors lost...that should keep them busy for a while too

[Zoaknight]

It may take a shorter time since they had all those years to study and alter their own units. The information derived from that would more than likely cut the research time down for these units.

Plus that queen as got a lot of breeding to do in order to make up for all those warriors lost...that should keep them busy for a while too

And that commander dude hasn't seen his mate in MILLENIA...Those two will have alot of lost time to make up for

Grakken appear to be somesort of insectoid species from what we've seen so far and how they have a hive culture.

[WarriorZoalord]

Don't the Grakkens modify their units to work only with Grakkens anyway? I think the only reason that one guy got the destroyer armor was because they modified that particular unit to work with a human.

I believe you'r referring to Crimson? He's got an Aecear unit that was damaged, and when activated on a grakken it "absorbed" the grakkens unit, creating a more powerful Aecear that is roughly equivilant to a Warrior guyver in power. It was the Merger of the Aecear unit with the grakkens armor and CM that created the semi-bonding aecear unit known as Crimson that also now has access to Grakken tech.

Or are you referring to Baxter? I know both of them have been shown to manipulate grakken tech. I believe a Grakken unit can be used just like a standard unit, just that it's been modified a lot so unlike a standard guyver unit, it cannot use things like the gigantic, and aecear's apparently, without modification.

[McAvoy]

Depends on how Sully deals with the Grakkens in the futures rewrites.

But the way I see it, at least for the time being is that Grakken's units are nothng more than built up standard units. That can b used on humans. But like Sully recently pointed out that most of us including me o erlooked that in Rescue a Guyver can access their own systems. Not something you should be able to do when you are fighting for a long time with a race(s) that can create their own Guyver unit at will vs. a race that has a barely working knowledge of it.

That and combined with th new knowledge that Grakkens do no make their own units but are cloned. Who knows that maybe the Grakkens own base unit may be a prototype Gen unit that the Grakkenz claimed as their own. Then used their own technology lik the Destroyer to upgade it.

Ultmately this could mean a small core of Black Grakkens no more powerful than the orginal until they can figure a way for the Destroyer armor to bond with it. Or maybe not. Maybe the Destroyer armor has no difficulty with it but still will take tome for the new Black armor to replace the old units.

Not to mention any additional information they may get from the Balck units for their own technology. We zmay see something like the above in far future storie.

This new unit of theirs may triple their overall power over time. Or it may not.

[WarriorZoalord]

Not to mention any additional information they may get from the Balck units for their own technology. We zmay see something like the above in far future storie.

This new unit of theirs may triple their overall power over time. Or it may not.

I dont think 3x would do it, it's basically just a normal unit with a more powerful control medal, no new tech, since a majority of their tech doesnt use the CM tech like their destroyer armor or those staff weapons, it would basically double their power.

which means that all the creators have to do is just counter it by remodeling their army a little bit, they have over twice the number of aecear troops as they have kavzars, all they need to do is make most of those kavzar into commanders and turn those aecear troops into kavzar and they would basically be back to "Status quo" since there's only one of these unit replicators it would take a really long time to outfit the entire grakken race with black units, which means the creators could easily counter this before they become a major problem again.

[Sully]

TheGen don't need to re-model their army. Aceaer's are the cannon fodder of the Gen army. The Gen can littrally Zerg (for those of you who don't know Starcraft the term means to simply outnumber by vast amounts your foe and simply overwhealm them) most foes and win just with the Aceraer forces alone. Each world could have billions of them.

The Gen expand slowly but surely, taking over systems and building them up to War World Status. They then support those War Worlds by Seed worlds.

E.G. if the Gen controlled our solor system. Earth would be the Seed world along with Mars. They are best located for life to grownaturally. They would possibly make another artifical planet in the ideal range for life to grow (or at least start one off using the asteroids in our system as a base). One of the more hostile planets would be completely teraformed but not to produce life, it would be heavily artifical much like the War World of Enforcer Prime. Life wouldn''t be expected to grow here both Earth and Mars would supply this world with what it needs in the form of new recruits. Possubly Venus would make a good War World. The War War would maintain control then of the system. Note as more Seed worlds get ready a second War World would be made.

Another thing to factor in would be that the War World wouldn't be like a Seed world. The number of Aceaers here would be far less. And only if they prove themself do they become a Kavzar. Their rack syste depends on them killing an absorbing parts from other would be contenders to that post. Survial of the fitest makes for a good army, but as said before also means they need a supply of good possibly hosts to become Kavzar. Again they then compete with each other to gain higher ranks.

To take it in a modren standing, present day Gen would have a working population and fleet produced by Earth in a realitively short time. In a decade Earth as a seed world would be producing an army and growing a expanding fleet of bio-ships that could defend the world. Give them a centry then you'd have a fortress system of 2 maybe 3 War Worlds depending on what resorces are in the Sol system. Each War World having it's own Enforcer.

So simply apply that then to the Galaxy. The Gen after leaving Earth would have taken awaile to establish themselves somewhere. They then would have taken awhile to grow from there.

The Grakken learned from them. Though they work differenty. I'll cover that later.

[Zoaknight]

Sully wrote: TheGen don't need to re-model their army. Aceaer's are the cannon fodder of the Gen army. The Gen can littrally Zerg (for those of you who don't know Starcraft the term means to simply outnumber by vast amounts your foe and simply overwhealm them) most foes and win just with the Aceraer forces alone. Each world could have billions of them.

The Gen expand slowly but surely, taking over systems and building them up to War World Status. They then support those War Worlds by Seed worlds.

E.G. if the Gen controlled our solor system. Earth would be the Seed world along with Mars. They are best located for life to grownaturally. They would possibly make another artifical planet in the ideal range for life to grow (or at least start one off using the asteroids in our system as a base). One of the more hostile planets would be completely teraformed but not to produce life, it would be heavily artifical much like the War World of Enforcer Prime. Life wouldn''t be expected to grow here both Earth and Mars would supply this world with what it needs in the form of new recruits. Possubly Venus would make a good War World. The War War would maintain control then of the system. Note as more Seed worlds get ready a second War World would be made.

Another thing to factor in would be that the War World wouldn't be like a Seed world. The number of Aceaers here would be far less. And only if they prove themself do they become a Kavzar. Their rack syste depends on them killing an absorbing parts from other would be contenders to that post. Survial of the fitest makes for a good army, but as said before also means they need a supply of good possibly hosts to become Kavzar. Again they then compete with each other to gain higher ranks.

To take it in a modren standing, present day Gen would have a working population and fleet produced by Earth in a realitively short time. In a decade Earth as a seed world would be producing an army and growing a expanding fleet of bio-ships that could defend the world. Give them a centry then you'd have a fortress system of 2 maybe 3 War Worlds depending on what resorces are in the Sol system. Each War World having it's own Enforcer.

So simply apply that then to the Galaxy. The Gen after leaving Earth would have taken awaile to establish themselves somewhere. They then would have taken awhile to grow from there.

The Grakken learned from them. Though they work differenty. I'll cover that later.

Brutal and efficient describes the Gen perfectly it seems....Chronos, ACTF, Zeus Thunderbolt, Jason & friends...Without these major powers defending the earth, regardless of their motives, Earth would be seriously screwed (I realize the Gen are only interested in earth as a testing ground for their new units for now....But that can't last forever given the expansionist nature of the Gen).

[Sully]

Brutal and efficient describes the Gen perfectly it seems....Chronos, ACTF, Zeus Thunderbolt, Jason & friends...Without these major powers defending the earth, regardless of their motives, Earth would be seriously screwed (I realize the Gen are only interested in earth as a testing ground for their new units for now....But that can't last forever given the expansionist nature of the Gen).

In the large scheme of things, Earth is just a blip they see as a distant star.

[Zoaknight]

Sully wrote: In the large scheme of things, Earth is just a blip they see as a distant star.

A blip that played a major role in the history of their race and whose lifeforms have kicked their butts in the past, and still poses a threat to them even now

I just find it very hard to believe they'd just leave us alone after their research and testing is complete after everything that's transpired on earth, plus the Federation may yet discover it, their dirty little secret. I mean, wouldn't it be kinda anti-climatic if they just up and left once they learned how to create the Ultimate Guyver unit & had no hostile intentions towards earth at all? Being a war like race suffering from a major god complex, with so many of their strongest and worst failed experiments living on a planet that's caused them so much bad luck in the past..."shrugs" Guess we'll just have to wait and see :

[Juggernought]

They can pretty much wipe out whatever powerful organizations Earth currently has in a matter of hours. There are a few reasons why they haven't really cared to do so...no matter how powerful earth type beings are ie Dreadnought, W'kar, Alkanphel...they alone cannot defeat the horde of the Gen. Chronos has no where near the army to battle them alone...the various factions on earth are currently infighting and vying for power amongst each other...The Ark is but 1 ship and even with the second created is not enough to take on even a fraction of the Gen's fleet. The old relics, their guyver units and any unfinished experiments also are of no concern because on the large scale of things their addition would barely even tip the scale....on a planet view, finding those projects would prove beneficial for the lucky group or person....

that is just many of the reasons i think.

[McAvoy]

You are correct. I mean the Gen has 1,500 Enforcer Kavzars. While a select few beings on Earth can reasonably take on one on one with success, there are five for each fleet. Not to mention the Commander class and the standard Kavzars. The Aceaers alone probably by sheer weight of numbers can take on Earth.

[WarriorZoalord]

You are correct. I mean the Gen has 1,500 Enforcer Kavzars. While a select few beings on Earth can reasonably take on one on one with success, there are five for each fleet. Not to mention the Commander class and the standard Kavzars. The Aceaers alone probably by sheer weight of numbers can take on Earth.

if i remember the numbers correctly, there are 10 Trillion Aecear troops alone in the creator empire..... there are only a total of 6 billion people on earth, even if every one of them was a bio-titans, they would still be hard pressed against those numbers, thats not to mention the other 4 trillion assorted kavzars and kavzar commanders, along with the 4,000 enforcers.

[Sully]

Witht eh rewrite one subtle thing will change. When the Grakken started their war, they are as were now Unit wise. But the Gen army wasn't at all what it is in present day stroy lines. To put it in context the Kavzar warrior then wasn't as advanced has it is now. So even the basic Kavzar wasn't 3 times that of a Guyver it was more a factor of 2.

As before the Grakken (though with a more basic Destroyer armour than that of the Sect in the present storyline) attacked when they were good and ready. They devestated the early Gen army and a lot of worlds were lost. What happened from there is what happened before. The Gen eventually upgraded their army to a point where the Grakken numbers didn't decide the battles. Enforcer Prime being the person that signalled the first great loss to the Grakken and the Gen counter attack.

As before the Gen made peace with the Grakken and few even on both sides know really why, Krullnar's rants about them in 7 Days gives you a clue.

This will get a lot more detail in All Things Change. In the rewrite up until then Grakken won't even be known by name offically until that point. The ACTF only learn who they are when Jason is told by Krullnar confirming what they were told by Martin (they don't exactly trust the crazy x scince guy from Area 51).