Poll: Warrior Guyver vs. Warrior Guyver

[OnyxPhoenix]

Quite the evil, devious man you are, Zeo. Thanks a lot for the additional info, though. Gives me more than what I already had, and makes for an even better read when u review everything. Tell Sully that I'm trying to work on a WG outline for all events, but that it might take a while, k? Later, and again, thanks.

[McAvoy]

Remember that both Type 1 and Type 2 units are for the most part identical, it's just different in how they channel their energy. The WG2 units are not only the final unit but supposed to the original version. The Gravity Shield I think was created to combat the Black Nova unit.

[largo]

I know that this may seem kind of dumb but I seriously think that WG2 would do the best. It's pretty much a draw because of the very nature of the warrior unit. If it were a fight between WG2 and WG3 I would have to go with WG2 on this. Now of course you can't ignore that WG and WGC are pretty much the wild cards since there units have abilities that are different from the others. WG has the grav shield while WGC has his comet attact these to abilities really do throw a wrench in the whole thing well that's what this one thinks anyway.

[*zeo]

Well, then here's another trivia question...

Why did the Creators choose the WG2 design over the WG design?

[guyverfanatic]

Well, then here's another trivia question...

Why did the Creators choose the WG2 design over the WG design?

Versatility perhaps?

[Destroyer Guyver]

Well, then here's another trivia question...

Why did the Creators choose the WG2 design over the WG design?

The Warrior Guyver prototype was designed to defeat the Black Nova unit, as such its main weapon was meant to counter that units greater power by turning it against it, essentially while the Gravity Shield is a powerful weapon the Prototype is a one trick pony.

The Type 2 Warrior Units are i belive intended for normal combat so they have a more generalised but heavily offense oriented weapon system.

[*zeo]

Warm but propaganda (I.E.>Half Truths) isn't the actual answer

[WarriorZoalord]

Perhaps they felt the WG prototype was too limited in abilities and went with something that would be better overall? since the CPM's can enhance speed, strength, attacks, or defensive abilities, they are more adaptable in my opinion, thus in massive quantities they would be more deadly than a bunch of WG prototypes, unless your facing Gravity heavy opponents.

[*zeo]

Um, not really... There is lots of things that can be done with the gravity shield, it's hardly a one trick pony as it seems to be assumed. It's just optimized for gravitational energy but it can manipulate that energy pretty much any way the host wills.

Never mind most of a Guyver's powers are based off gravitational energy, especially the Gigantic. The actual translation of the Power Amps for example describes them as gravitational amplifiers!!!

Hint, who used the WG2 units in the WG2 universe?

[WarriorZoalord]

uhh. The Creators use the WG2's because it would bring them upto guyver level power, but then again, a normal WG unit did the same..... I remember because Solom kicked guyver 3's ass using a WG2 unit... my guess is because it can amplify their telepathic power beyond that of a normal WG unit? Because no one said a Wg2 unit's CPM's cant amplify mental powers as well as physical.

[*zeo]

Warmer, correct that the units were used by the Creators, but nope on the reason...

Hint, what's the different about a Creator host from a human hosted Warrior Unit?

Hint 2, what exists in the WG2 universe that would make extra shielding and super massive firepower redundant?

[Juggernought]

Hmm, could it be that on a Creator the unit is utilized mostly as a highly advanced tool. It acts as a storage unit for information, and at the same time boosting their mental capacities. My guess is the creators chose the wg2 units for use because they provide easier access to power with the aid of the cpms and can boost a particular attribute at will and the ability to morph or change its weaponry to be used in different ways. The wg type 1 needed additional gravitational power to create the same effect.

And is it the existence of multiple matrix that would make those things redundant?

[*zeo]

Yes

Okay, the full answer is the existence of the Matrix and the Warrior Kavzar (ultimate body guards) that made the WG gravity shield redundant.

With the WK's no one could even get close to a Creator without them letting you get close and the Matrix could augment the Creator's shields, among its other abilities.

It's also because Creators are not Guyvers and thus could not take full advantage of the Warrior Unit's potential power, even though they did modify themselves with some human traits they are still Creators and not human. Meaning, aside from being only 1/4 as powerful, they would not be as easily able to use the Gravity Shield as Jason.

Unlike for example Isis, who being a true Hybrid has the benefits of both species. . .

Basically, Creators can't use the CPM's to power boost. Here's the quote from the WG2 fic when Solom confronted WG2 just after he had used the CPM's for a power boost...

Impressive Guyver but still futile. I don’t know how you were able to suddenly increase your power but I shall have plenty of time to examine your Unit once I remove it.

Similarly the Creators couldn't take full advantage of the Gravity Shield either. The CPM's firepower though provided an easy augmentation they could better take advantage of, being a secondary system it would not task their own power or their ability to control their power. . .

Then there's the final reason, being that the Creators didn't need to be able to take on something like the Black Nova Unit or any super powerful being for that matter since they had the Warrior Kavzars to do all their fighting.

So the CPM's were adopted not because they were superior option than the Gravity Shield but rather because they were the more practical option for the Creators to use.

So where does that leave us?

WG's and WG2's are basically identical. The only difference is one is configured to Generate a Gravity Shield and the other CPM's. The same technology goes into both!

The WG2 wasn't the replacement of the WGs, just a different model that fit the needs of the Creators.

Most of the advantages of the CPM's that were pointed to, actually only apply to human hosted units but many also ignored the fact that the WG could also augment itself in various ways with the Gravity Shield.

Also most of you didn't take into account the fact that much of the energy of a CPM is also gravitational, though mostly raw energy a good chunk of it is gravitational as that is how the energy is focused and channeled, along with the fact the control interface is directly linked to the gravity control systems of the unit, which is why WG2's have different shaped gravity control orbs.

In essense, when a WG2 is firing the CPM's they are also firing the equivalent of a stream of pressure cannons along with it in a combined energy blast and is why the CPM's can so easily deliver Mega Smasher level attacks.

Course this doesn't mean a WG2 can't win against a WG, since the advantage is only there when the Gravity Shield is used but the host must know to use it and use it wisely.

Betwen two highly trained hosts a WG versus WG2 battle can last quite a long time.

Now let's clear up the misconception about the Gravity Shield.

The Gravity Shield though is more like a Gigantic Power Amp, just with a much higher upper limit.

The Gigantic Power Amps for example can be overloaded and shattered but the Gravity Shield is an energy construct and thus can't be shattered and it took the Guyver Zoalord to overload WG.

The Gravity Shield can manipulate gravity as well as contain and redirect it.

WG for example used it to recharge himself with an absorbed pressure cannon after VWG had drained him.

During Strange World Jason used the Gravity Shield to fly when he couldn't activate his unit.

And there is more a WG can do with a Gravity Shield that Jason never got around to discovering he could do.

Remember, Black Nova not only had immense gravitational power but also superior physical power. In fact Black Nova is stronger than a power boosted WG2, yet we know Solom intended his WG unit to defeat the Black Nova unit. . .

[WarriorZoalord]

So your saying that its possible the gravity shield can also enhance physical power as well?

[Juggernought]

It would seem so. My guess is it's just more difficult to do it since the type 1 has no easily accessible secondary power system like cpms on it. Perhaps activating the gravity shield and then refocusing and redirecting it into amplifiers(think thats what they are) located on a wg's fore arms, calves, and hips to enhance an ability. Sounds like it would take a lot of concentration and training. Jason just saw it as a shield and not much else, now that he's Dreadnought i doubt he will discover this at all. Perhaps WG vamore or WG5 will discover more of the hidden abilities of their units.

[*zeo]

The Gravity Shield does require concentration, but so does the CPM's.

WG2 only learned about the ability when his life depended on it, and even he isn't using the CPM's to their full potential either.

Like WG, WG2 is just using his CPM's like raw power boosters. He hasn't considered the fact he's manipulating dimensions every time he uses the CPM's to channel hyper space energy.

Also he hasn't ever tried channeling his own unit power like WG does, like how WG can channel his body shield energy to boost his pressure cannon.

Like I once mentioned on the board before, the Power Wave is part of the WG tech. The Matrix just made it easier to access.

Applications for the Gravity Shield include:

-Creating black hole attack.

-Incredibly powerful Pressure Cannons, which can also be fired as an omni-directional hail.

-Creating Wormhole for FTL travel.

-Gravitational Shockwaves as powerful as nukes, dependant on charge.

-Super Boosting his momentum enhancers (which basically channel the unit's gravitational energy to boost the momentum energy of a punch or kick-normal Guyver gets 10x so imagine what WG could do with the gravity shield backing him up)

-Manipulating Space/Time, similar to Black Nova.

-Supplimenting energy by converting gravitational energy into bio-energy like he did when he used a pressure cannon to recover from VWG's energy drain.

-Boosting his flight speed, dependant on how much gravitational energy he has amassed but can potentially go near light speed.

-Can absorb momentum for rapid decelleration.

-Create a hyper space rift

-Lower an object's effective mass to make it easier to move.

Also, you should add F-WG to the list of host who may someday master the Gravity Shield. Since she's using an alternate of Jason's unit and thus she also has the Gravity Shield.

[Juggernought]

Yea, so basically the trend I'm seeing is that most of the WG hosts are not creative enough to experiment with their powers and see what effects it would have. Usually any new found power is by accident and based of the powers of the normal guyvers or from what they've seen demonstrated by units of the same class they are in.

[*zeo]

Yes, though it isn't just a lack of creativity or imagination. It is also a lack of opportunity, since both the CPM and Gravity Shield are incredibly powerful.

It's not like they can just find any place to practice, especially since the Gravity Shield is capable of rivaling the destructive power of full scale nukes.

[McAvoy]

Regarding the Warrior project.

So far we have had only hints that the Gravity Shield was meant to take on the Black Nova and in FWG's universe was ever confirmed. Also Krullnar had stated that the WG2 unit was meant to the be the original, but Solom had to create the Gravity Shield.

The wide spread use of the WG2 unit in the WG2 universe suggests that WG1 unit did in fact defeat Black Nova. Also, the WG1 unit probably isn't considered a Prototype but more of a version of the WG unit, standard equipment. Which is why Warrior Guyver Vamore and the damaged unit that Dreadnought has are Type 1s. It might be even possible that WG2's universe version of Warrior Guyver may not even be the first.

[OnyxPhoenix]

I can see it now, a moment between battles when WG is training w/ his wife FWG. . .

"That's it, honey, just like that, keep it going, . . ."

"Uh, Jason. . ."

"Uh, oh!"

(After the smoke has dissipated from the crater, revealing Dreadnought holding his wife in his arms, and his shields active)

"Uh, sorry, Jason."

(In Jason's mind) // Oh boy, do I have my work cut out for me. . . .//

[*zeo]

Yes, that's the basic idea.

The thing is Dreadnought can still learn to control the Gravity Shield properly, like the face off he had with WG-Vamore. He just has even more potential as Dreadnought.

Turning WG-Vamore into a living Pressure Cannon to blast a massive hole in the Ark being just one of many things he can do now

And McAvoy's analysis is essentially correct. Though this is not true for every reality shown in the WG fic. The Strange World fic for example showed a world where the Nova Project advanced enough to produce the Dark Nova Upgrade for the Black Nova Unit.

[McAvoy]

I always wondered if the Black Nova prototype recieved an upgrade which might have had the potential to defeat the Prototype Warrior unit, that if the Warrior Project had one as well. Maybe not in that reality, but in another perhaps even in WG2's universe. I wonder what it might have been.

Also, if I were to take a guess, the Type 1 Warrior units could have been used on Creator equivilant of civilians instead of military personel.

[WarriorZoalord]

I wonder if its possible to have both A CPM and gravity shield on the same WG unit.... if they do the same thing i doubt it. but it would be interesting to think about.

[*zeo]

Only with the Matrix would that be possible, since they are based on the same technology, but then the two would become indestinguishable from each other.

Dreadnought for example is completely capable of tapping and channeling energy from Hyper Space just like a CPM.

[guyverfanatic]

Applications for the Gravity Shield include:

-Creating black hole attack.

-Incredibly powerful Pressure Cannons, which can also be fired as an omni-directional hail.

-Creating Wormhole for FTL travel.

-Gravitational Shockwaves as powerful as nukes, dependant on charge.

-Super Boosting his momentum enhancers (which basically channel the unit's gravitational energy to boost the momentum energy of a punch or kick-normal Guyver gets 10x so imagine what WG could do with the gravity shield backing him up)

-Manipulating Space/Time, similar to Black Nova.

-Supplimenting energy by converting gravitational energy into bio-energy like he did when he used a pressure cannon to recover from VWG's energy drain.

-Boosting his flight speed, dependant on how much gravitational energy he has amassed but can potentially go near light speed.

-Can absorb momentum for rapid decelleration.

-Create a hyper space rift

-Lower an object's effective mass to make it easier to move.

Also, you should add F-WG to the list of host who may someday master the Gravity Shield. Since she's using an alternate of Jason's unit and thus she also has the Gravity Shield.

Damn! I didn't even know that the gravity shield was capable of such things!