Aptom,Zoalords,Guyvers, now here's an idea for you!

[Jukai]

Yes, but my point was, the scientific explanation of "The Thing" is very clearly translated for us... and if that's where Takaya got the idea for Aptom's powers, we can probably look there for the explanation.

[*Jess♥]

I'm not familiar with the explainations for the thing.

is there a site that has specifics on it? I think it would be inteesting to bring that in here and analyze it.

[Super Existence]

http://www.outpost31.com/movie/faq.html

They explain the things lifecycle here look at Is Blair's computer program accurate?

[*Jess♥]

that's pretty interesting.

it suggests more of an amoeba type behaviour. I get the devouring thing you mentioned. that is easily plausible.

can this happen at such a speed? i mean it seems like when aptom attacks, the cells structures seem to destabilise quite quickly?

thinking about that though... he attacks Guyver and guyvers cells seem to destabilise, don't they?

so perhaps the idea of using zoanoid transformation as a tool.. maybe that is wrong.

I like the idea.. but i think it wouldn't work like that with a Guyver maybe.

so perhaps this explaination of teh thing is teh best thing to use.

and obviously it fits with that interview?

what is that interview i never heard of it. I think it would be a good idea to locate that and verify it's exhistence and content.

[Super Existence]

It was in America damn I wish I still had it. It came out when Viz comics had just released the chapter when Sho teamed up with Murakami for the first time to go to relics point. I remember the cover and everything, he mentioned a lot of his influences in there like Godzilla and so forth.

I'm sure I've heard this thing reference mentioned somewhere else.

As the thing carries it's memories over from victim to victim as Aptom does it seems to fit.

The only way the thing differs from Aptom is when it takes over a human being it not only absorbs its genetic codes it's capable of absorbing your knowledge so it looks and act just like the original you. This is an ability that Aptom doesn't seem to have, the ability to eat his victims knowledge.

'The Thing' movie makes out in a deleted scene that's the aliens cell is not a normal cell structure as we understand it. It's something entirely new which can give the appearance of any kind of cell, it also makes out that The Thing might be able to imitate vegetable matter, something I've always wondered if Aptom was capable of.

Could he absorb a tree and power himself via sunlight through Photogenesis.

[*zeo]

Well the original Thing was a plant based monster that fed off blood, Carpenter just updated it into an even scarier creature that became its victims.

The later comic mini-series was cool too and continued off from the movie.

Personally, I think Aptom can absorb any living thing but Zoanoids provide more energy.

The transformation of the victims I think are either a reflex action as they try to resist or Aptom was triggering it so he could absorb as much energy from them as possible as he absorbs them.

[*Kenji Murakami]

I think it would be interesting if Aptom assimilated some plants, if he could, if only for the extra energy the photosynthisis would provide him with. It sort of makes me wonder what would happen if he could have gotten his hands on some of Waferdanos' genetic material after he'd removed his Zoacrystal.

[Guest ALKENPHELL]

I still like Ryuki's theory. The virus idea is cool but it's too "all-encompassing," ya know? The virus would have to both eat away at the Zoanoid at rapid fire speed and simultaneously assimilate the genetic structure of the Zoanoid's DNA into Aptom. That really seems outside the reach of what a virus really does, which is just infect cells. There could be multiple viruses and proteins working, I guess.

But giving Aptom the ability, by touch, to send nerve impulses to the brain to reconstitute the DNA of Aptom and merge it with his own DNA seems slightly less unlikely. If this is the case though, than Aptom probably CAN assimilate humans.. it's just a much greater effort. Just like the Zoalords CAN control regular humans, it's just incredibly hard and tiring. The only reason I could lean towards Aptom using some sort of virus to do his absorptions is because Zxtol had 'anti-bodies' to protect him from being absorbed by Aptom... usually the term 'anti-body' refers to something that fights off foreign infection, not to prevent the brain from acting in any sort of way.

I guess it actually could be a COMBINATION of the two theories. Aptom, by touch, transmits a virus that messes with the synapsis in a Zoanoid's brain, telling the cells in that creature's body to break down and bond with the DNA in Aptom's body. This also could be why when Aptom absorbs someone, they become very veiny... it may not just be the process of absorbing nutrients from their bloodstream, but also PUMPING IN a large quantity of virus inside a Zoanoid. This also makes more sense on why a Zoacrystal and a Guyver unit will protect the wearer; it's not fighting off infection but PROTECTING THE HOSTS BRAIN!

I'm not sure I remember this scene correctly (actually at this point I feel I could be making this up), but I remember that Aptom puts his hand on the Guyver's head and you see the hand sink in, and get all veiny, as if he's pumping the virus into Sho. Then, he pulls his hand away when he realizes he can't merge with the Guyver. It's because the virus couldn't muck around with the brain, cause the brain is connected to the Control Medal, and more or less, the Zoacrystal.

Wow, overthinking things IS fun!

if i remember correctly in the comics Dr Balcus said that aptom "was an inteligent virus", i cant remember which issue but i'll dig them out and let you no

[Jukai]

Yer gonna have to, cause I don't remember that quote at all..

[Super Existence]

Carpenters Thing was based on the original novel 'Who Goes there' and was intensly faithful to the novel unlike the 50's version which had to change it as 50's effects couldnt pull off the imitator. He didnt update it with a better monster it was the way it was meant to be.

As for Aptom doing this incredibly quickly, yeah there is that issue but also Zoaforms changing so very quickly is a little unrealistic.

I suppose at that point you have to forgive the comic book glitches and just take it as red that's what's meant to happen.

[*zeo]

Carpenters Thing was based on the original novel 'Who Goes there' and was intensly faithful to the novel unlike the 50's version which had to change it as 50's effects couldnt pull off the imitator. He didnt update it with a better monster it was the way it was meant to be.

Cool, I never knew there was an original book to the story. So I stand corrected.

Though I think it was more the mindset and budget limits of sci-fi's of the 50's that prevented them from being faithful to the book back in the '51 movie. After all just three years later they came out with the Body Snatcher in '54, a movie full of alien imitators and they did have shape shifting monster movies back then.

Also believability wasn't so much an issue back then, since audience then weren't as critical as they are now.

As for Aptom doing this incredibly quickly, yeah there is that issue but also Zoaforms changing so very quickly is a little unrealistic.

I suppose at that point you have to forgive the comic book glitches and just take it as red that's what's meant to happen.

Well you could always assume that some catalyst could be involved, after all biology is just organic chemistry and chemical reactions can be accelerated quite a bit with the proper catalyst to speed up the reactions.

The things we can't explain though is how zoanoids can increase their mass, simple conservation of energy tells us that's basically impossible without a massive influx of either raw energy or consumed matter.

My own theory is that the Creators knew how the Guyver organism could Bio-Boost itself, since even the Sho Clone Monster was referred to as the Bio-Booster Organism and we know the Bio-Boost deals with siphoning energy from the Boost Dimension, and thus used that knowledge to create a catalyst to allow for zoaform transformation.

Essentially the act of transforming siphons energy from the Boost Dimension, but unlike a Guyver they can only do so while transforming while the Guyver can continuously siphon energy.

It would fully explain how zoaforms can transform so quickly, increase their mass, why many seem to glow as they transform, and still have enough energy to fight. But Takaya never really explained it so it's just my theory for now.

[Jukai]

I'm almost positive that's not the case, if the Zoanoids got their energy from the bio-boost dimension, that would have been mentioned in the story already, cause that's sort of a cool theory.

I'm sad to say, but the increase in mass is probably something we can never explain with real science.

[*Kenji Murakami]

You mentioned that theory back at the Guyver Board; it sounds fairly plausible, at least from what I've observed.

[*Jess♥]

I don't think we were ever fully clear on that mass issue.

maybe we could do a full investigation in a new thread?

[*zeo]

Sure, sounds good Ryuki...

I'm almost positive that's not the case, if the Zoanoids got their energy from the bio-boost dimension, that would have been mentioned in the story already, cause that's sort of a cool theory.

I'm sad to say, but the increase in mass is probably something we can never explain with real science.

True, even the Bio-Boost explaination calls upon the use of theoretical science, such as dimensional interactions, etc that we're a long way off from fully understanding.

But there are many things Takaya doesn't fully explain, which is why we debate and theorize so much but specifically my theory is that they can only tap it during transformation.

Something that falls into fine details of the process, which there is much Takaya hasn't fully explained.

Chronos may not even be fully aware of it since they just copied the technology from the Creators and are still a long way from mastering it, otherwise each of the Zoalord's would each be Archanfel's equal but they aren't and thus that means Chronos technology is still behind the Creator's.

It's also something they can't really take advantage of since it only would work during transformation.

Also my theory doesn't rule out that it may take some energy to trigger the process, which is why I described it as a catalyst and not an actual power source.

I mainly like the theory because it works with something Takaya already invented for the series and explains all the inconsistencies I can think of relating to it.

It even explains why Aptom's victims may transform as it would provide him more energy as he absorbs them and he has stated he gains energy as he absorbs his victims.

But like I said it's only a theory...