HF Sword capabilities

[Lindsay]

Aside from other HF materials, which have shown varying degrees of resilience, and materials that cause chemical or other damage to the blade material, do they just cut through everything like it was air? If the user accidentally sliced through something fairly solid, would they feel any resistance? Barriers seem to stop them - are they capable of adapting to block HF attacks, or do they behave like an extremely dense solid, or what?

[Salkafar]

Structural integrity has to figure into it. Resonance is all well and good, but you're ripping molecular bonds and that takes energy. The stronger the bonds, the more energy is necessary, no matter how efficiently it's transferred.

I also have to wonder how the vibration blades manage to emit several different frequencies at once, necessary to create resonances in different substances.

[Lindsay]

Hmm. Perhaps the weapon system analyses substances in fine proximity to the edge, and adjusts both the frequency and power appropriately. (It can't be constantly pumping out the power needed to cut through another Guyver; users seem to be able to swordfight for long periods without significant power drain.) 

Human tech has power saws that can detect organic substances and instantly stop to prevent injury, so it seems feasible. 

[Goku]

has it ever been explained why guyver 3 has 2 blades on each arm while all the other guyvers have one?

[*zeo]

On 7/1/2016 at 7:56 AM, Goku said:

has it ever been explained why guyver 3 has 2 blades on each arm while all the other guyvers have one?

Nope, just assumed/theorized that it's a manifestation of the unit adapting to the host and possibly their unique personality/aggressiveness... However, despite the number, there's not much tactical advantage to having additional swords as they're still used the same way and equally effective against each other...

Though, on the Gigantic this expands to three for GG3 and provides the tactical advantage of a wider arc when extending the blades on whip like tendrils or increasing the chances of hitting a target when fired off like retractable vibrational dagger/spears.  However, the tactical improvement is otherwise still minimal and relies on using specific fighting styles to take extra advantage of them...

As to how they function... They simply vibrate at extremely high frequency, which generates a focused shock wave that splits apart the molecular bonds of anything in the blade's path.  It's essentially as effective as a single atom thick, monomolecular, blade and will cut through any known material that isn't shielded or producing its own sonic blade effect...  Think Kinetic energy blade basically... It's the kinetic field the blade generates that does the actual cutting, no tuning required as it simply directly targets molecular bonds and overwhelms them, and so the Guyver shouldn't even feel anything as the blade cuts through objects unless it's actually blocked/countered...  Since the physical sword isn't actually contacting anything but the air molecules around it...

Though, the weapon would probably be much less effective in the vacuum of space as kinetic energy needs a medium to work through... along with the Sonic Busters...

The Sonic Busters are the only weapon that requires any tuning but that's mainly to help focus, amplify, and direct its destructive power... The Gigantic's extra pop out sonic orb emitters help not only increase total output power of the sonic buster but also helps increase their effective range.

[Lindsay]

Four swords instead of two is a pretty significant advantage when dealing with foes that are vulnerable to but can destroy swords. Agito could individually decapitate four Enzyme types if needs be. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Lindsay

[*zeo]

On 7/4/2016 at 8:27 AM, Lindsay said:

Four swords instead of two is a pretty significant advantage when dealing with foes that are vulnerable to but can destroy swords. Agito could individually decapitate four Enzyme types if needs be. 

I disagree, it has never been shown that he could activate them separately and they're still right next to each other on his forearm... So would be effected at the same time as he slashed through the Enzyme and exposed them to the Enzyme acid blood...

 

Only the Gigantic form could possibly grant him that kind of advantage, in addition to adding another pair for a total of six blades... but in the midst of battle it's more likely all the blades would be kept together as it has typically been shown in the Manga...

[Lindsay]

15 hours ago, zeo said:

I disagree, it has never been shown that he could activate them separately and they're still right next to each other on his forearm... So would be effected at the same time as he slashed through the Enzyme and exposed them to the Enzyme acid blood...

He's wearing armour that enhances bodily control to bullet dodging-level and he clearly trains with it and experiments with its capabilities, he's had multiple encounters with Enzymes, and the blade does not rely on swinging momentum to deliver a severing strike. And he's got levitation capability that can carry his and a passenger's body weight, easily enough to counter his forward momentum after making a fast forward strike. 

So, he's got a strong incentive and the capability to develop a fencing style where a foreblade strike is followed by drawing back the arm, thereby decapitating an Enzyme type without plunging his second blade into the wound and unnecessarily exposing his arm to the spurting jugular.

 

[*zeo]

6 hours ago, Lindsay said:

He's wearing armour that enhances bodily control to bullet dodging-level and he clearly trains with it and experiments with its capabilities, he's had multiple encounters with Enzymes, and the blade does not rely on swinging momentum to deliver a severing strike. And he's got levitation capability that can carry his and a passenger's body weight, easily enough to counter his forward momentum after making a fast forward strike. 

So, he's got a strong incentive and the capability to develop a fencing style where a foreblade strike is followed by drawing back the arm, thereby decapitating an Enzyme type without plunging his second blade into the wound and unnecessarily exposing his arm to the spurting jugular.

 

Uh, perhaps it's because I've covered this for well over a decade... Having the benefit of chance chats with martial artists who were also fans of the Guyver, one guy even bothered to try to develop a fighting style that could be applied to using forearm blades, adapting a existing fighting style, but there are multiple reasons why what you suggest simply won't work...

 

1) Guyver swords still need to be moved to decapitate anything... Not needing momentum to tear through matter doesn't remove the need to still move the sword to perform the action and these swords aren't thick enough to do it in a stabbing motion...

 

2) The swords are still attached to the Guyver and thus are effected by the limits of how the Guyver can articulate its forearm to maneuver the swords in any way and of course are then effected by the Guyver's momentum, which any movement would involve.

 

3) The swords are only inches apart and most Zoanoid necks aren't thin enough to use just one sword to completely decapitate them or severe a limb before the other sword also enters the mass.  Especially not a Enzyme 3, who's over 11 feet tall!... Never mind adding the need to avoid the blood spray, which any hesitation in movement will usually just end up exposing the swords to even more blood versus a quick and fluid motion strike.

 

4) Using forearm swords that are essentially mounted on the forearms are not the same as using a regular sword in your hands.  The forearm has much less freedom of movement than the hands and wrists.  Requiring consciously manipulating most of the body to achieve any significant range of movement and thus it's much less practical to expect a high level of precision and accuracy when using them.

 

5) Only the Gigantic has ever been able to stop quickly and that's because it's the Gigantic!  It has three gravity controllers and not just one, along with 12 power amps that each also can control gravity energy.  But the regular Guyver only has one gravity control orb and has never demonstrated the level of control needed for the level of precision and accuracy needed to pull off what you're suggesting.

Consider, the Gigantic can create a Pressure Cannon that can obliterate multiple stories of a skyscraper, blasting even a super massive over 400 meter tall skyscraper in half, with a massive gap where it had hit... This compared to the regular Guyver who can barely make a cannon ball size hole through a single Zoanoid... The gravitational power difference is immense... So a Gigantic stopping quickly is no surprise but you can't expect the same from a regular Guyver...

 

6) The Guyver host is still human and as such their brains do not work like a computer.  So there are limits to how precise and accurate even a Guyver can be.  Especially, against a moving target that has a mind that the Guyver can't read and that means there's always a level of guessing involved when trying to outmaneuver an opponent that's anywhere near as fast as a Guyver...

 

7) Guyver 3's swords are not all the same length when extended.  The blades closer to the elbow are longer than the pair closer to the middle of the forearm... The arcing shape they form also complements each other.  So even near the outer edge of the swords, which is the widest they are apart when extended, the combination of shape and length means it would be counter intuitive to try to cut with only a single blade and adds to how hard it really is to perform the maneuver you're imagining... along with requiring a stabbing motion to avoid the second sword pair from making contact but that means getting even closer to the Enzyme and doesn't mean the attack can actually decapitate the Enzyme as the motion doesn't ensure enough of the target mass will be effected...

 

8) A Guyver is not Super fast like the Flash, they can't outrun a bullet.  A Guyver is super humanly fast, fast enough to outrun a car and seem like little more than a blur of motion to a human but they're not as fast as bullets.  So any dodging is done by sensing that they are being targeted and responding before the projectile is actually fired.

Really, the Guyver has been hit plenty of times by projectiles a lot slower than bullets.  Only the CM is actually capable of responding fast enough to counter something as fast as a bullet.  But the Guyver can't physically out move a bullet, just out move the one firing it and trying to target them...

So let's not exaggerate its ability to be able to outmaneuver a given target.  Especially not a Ezyme 3, because they are specifically designed as Guyver killers and that includes giving them hyper zoanoid level speed, which at the very least rivals the Guyver's, and they can even fly and is one of the reasons why a Guyver has never actually just run away from them... It takes all the Guyver's speed to stand a chance against a Enzyme 3, let alone be super precise and able to control their own body momentum enough to give any practical advantage to using multiple swords versus a single pair that all get used exactly the same way...

 

Maybe if the target was immobilized and was about normal human size then this could possibly work but otherwise I don't see it ever happening...

[Lindsay]

Well put!  

[Lindsay]

Hmm. With regard to Agito's speed when bio-boosted, I've just watched episode 13. When he kills Thancrus, he dodges a laser attack by changing direction downwards in mid jump. That's not acrobatics, that can only be the gravity controller in action. So, it seems correct to say that Guyver III has the innate potential to move and change direction fast enough to deliver a decapitating strike with the front blade and then move so that the second blade does not follow through into the corrosive blood.

We've seen Sho shoot a bullet out the air to save Tetsuro before he was aware of the gun firing, so it's also true to say that a Guyver either piggy-backs or supplements the autonomous nervous system to make defensive moves beyond simple evasion. 

The question therefore is whether or not that evade was deliberately performed by Agito or if was an autopilot dodge. He did get several ultra-fast kills in Tokushima, no footsteps heard, so he can definitely perform very agile flight manoeuvres. 

Even if it's all performed by the Guyver for him, he's smart enough to realise that and incorporate it into a fighting style. This is a man who cuts his own leg off and beats you to death with it, I can see Takaya penning a scene where he does a one-inch-slash in the confident assumption that knowing the target's blood is corrosive will enhance his subsequent pirouette.

Alternatively, it could be that the Guyver's precise capabilities are largely determined by narratological necessity, like how the Walking Dead can't decide if they are shambles or runners  

[*zeo]

2 hours ago, Lindsay said:

So, it seems correct to say that Guyver III has the innate potential to move and change direction fast enough to deliver a decapitating strike with the front blade and then move so that the second blade does not follow through into the corrosive blood.

 

Doesn't matter... To put simply it's neither practical or really physically possible, it doesn't matter how fast the unit makes the host or how advance its agility is enhanced.  Unless the Enzyme gets a 1 inch organ vulnerability then it will take a lot more to do any serious harm...

The swords are simply not designed to be used in the way you're thinking... They're too close to each other, they're not thick enough, and they're actually designed to complement each other in a striking sweep move and not like traditional straight swords.

These are swords that are only inches apart  at the base and you're original argument was about decapitation, which requires being able to cut through 6-8 inches just for a human size neck... A Zoaform neck is much thicker and G3's swords are simply not placed far enough apart and somehow cut all the way through without the second sword making contact at all...

The closest possible move would be to stab with the sword and then rotate around the target to complete a decapitation that way.  The target would just have to remain stationary and not spray any blood through the process, which is frankly not going to happen unless Aptom freezes them first, in which case the Guyver can just use the sonic busters and be 100% sure of the kill instead.

But in normal use this would be impossible, there isn't a speed or agility advantage with a Enzyme III, the neck is way too thick vs the sword, the blood spray just needs to reach the base of the swords, which are even closer to each other and pretty much guaranteed to dissolve off both... The stab and rotate move means the Enzyme has more time to counter attack and exposes the sword longer to the Enzyme Acid blood, making it unlikely it could last long enough to complete the move but doesn't mean the blood spray can be avoided.

 

Add, the curved shape of the swords means G3 will basically have to move backwards to give the longer elbow sword the best chance of performing this move... While somehow simultaneously avoiding the Enzyme's counter attack and that of the other Enzymes as they attack in packs... along with somehow avoiding the blood spray as he gets close to completing the move and nears the entry/exit cut point that's probably still spraying blood at that point...

 

Besides, both swords are not the same length... So sacrificing one will most likely leave him with the shorter sword, assuming he pulls off the impossible and somehow manages the move without losing both swords anyway or just gets a bunch of Enzyme acid blood all over his body for trying and then gets easily killed by the remaining Enzymes... Assuming the one he decapitated is even dead and doesn't just regenerate as we don't know if they can survive a decapitation or not...

 

It would make far more sense to try to just cut with the outer edge and then move in closer for a closer follow up strike... Done fast enough it could avoid the Enzyme acid blood spray and just sacrifice the outer length of the swords and then move in with what's left but again, there's no real advantage over a Guyver with a single pair of swords... It's essentially just one sword split but still facing the same way and used in the same way... Sometimes more doesn't mean it's really different or better... Like there's no tactical advantage to G3's body spikes either...

 

This would be different if a Guyver could individually extend the swords one at a time but at most it seems they can only choose which arm they will use...

 

That said, Agito is good at either stealth or overwhelming force attacks... Like FG2, he will go right for a perceived vulnerability.  So you're right on that score... Reminds me of the first Zerebubuth battle in the Manga.  G1 had managed to force it to retreat after jumping over it and doing a full double kick into its back that penetrated its armor... G3 then snuck up on Zerebubuth, reached into that hole in its back and tore out a vital organ, probably the heart... Basically, Agito doesn't need a advantage, he's simply a very ruthless and deadly character that will create his own advantages...

 

While the head beam is the better weapon for precision targeting anyway...

[H222G981]

On 7/1/2016 at 6:56 AM, Goku said:

has it ever been explained why guyver 3 has 2 blades on each arm while all the other guyvers have one?

Honestly I think that the Guyver units appearance is more than likey based on the host's personality and the armor just reflects that. Agito is an aggressive and violent person and goes out of his way to kill his enemies which is probably why he has a total of 4 blades instead of the standard 2. Where Sho is caring and protective of his friends and doesn't act unless he's threatened.