Oh, what's this? A Guyver/Twilight comparison?!

[*Chernaudi]

As I pointed out, everything that Mr. Takaya puts into Guyver has a reason, usually an important one, and I do believe that him maybe inferring that Natsuki is a Christian is a thematic hint. The "hint" being morality and personal beliefs and ethics and responsible use of free will. Natsuki might be a Christian, but she seems to be an advocate of people using their own free will, which is why she's pissed at Chronos for using their propaganda to basically brainwash people into volunteering to become Zoanoids. And, I do have to admit that I'm slightly surprised that Yoshiki hasn't used much in the way of a historical perspective for a story commentary, such as the Fascists in Italy and the Nazis in German, and the Stalinist regime in the Soviet Union. Benito Mussolini, Adolf Hitler and Joesph Stalin weren't afraid to use propaganda to lure people to the causes of Fascism, National Socialism, and the Stalinist/Soviet brand of Communism within their own spheres of influence and to sell their ideals to the world at large.

Of course, a minor note on the history deal that surprises me is that Takaya does seem to bust his balls a bit to do some detailed research on the historical notes that he does use that are based on real events in history. And since Tetsuro and to a lesser degree Natsuki seem to be somewhat of an avatar of Takaya-san, I'm a bit surprised that neither Natsuki or Tetsuro seem to be history nuts, even if to a lesser degree than they are sci-fi addicts, because that would seem to be a good fit for them as characters, and it seems that Yoshiki is also interested by history, too.

But back to Natsuki and Christianity. It seems that Natsuki also represents the voice of reason as a character when she comments on events. And she also may be a Christian, but she doesn't seem to be a stereotypical "religious zealot". She doesn't seem to get offended when Sho or Tetsuro use swear words around her. It seems that she doesn't swear, or it's extremely rare that she uses swear words/profanities when she talks, but that's not unique to her; Shizu and Mizuki very rarely if ever swear, either (even when Val cut Shizu's arm off in their battle--she just expressed a moan of pain, while when Sho did similar to Agito, the latter dropped a S-bomb), so it seems to just be something that Takaya doesn't deem to be "lady-like" or it's his own personal choice to have most female characters shy away from using profanity, even if they themselves (characters) don't find it offensive, or if in the real world he doesn't (though it could be suggested that the "cat" graphics used when Natsuki got frustrated when Sho expressed regret about her nearly getting killed at the Mansion--feeling like he drug her into his problems--could be a veiled demonstration of the profanities going around in Natsuki's head that she chose not to verbalize).

She also doesn't dress or act like a stereotypical Christian. She does demonstrate an "edgy" fashion, but that's mostly from her bob-cut hair style and the fact that she at times dresses and acts a bit like a tomboy. Also, her hair style and some of her choices in clothing (the black outfit that she wore when she and co. first showed up at the mansion) seem to show that she's edgy and chic in terms of fashion, but I don't see her wearing a cross just for that, and Natsuki doesn't strike me as a goth-lolli or an emo-lolli or a punk-rocker type of chick. Most of the girls who do that actually usually have much longer hair--similar in length and sometimes style to what Shizu has, for an example (though not a good one; Shizu isn't a goth- or emo-lolli or a punk-rocker, either, but I'm using her for a hair style comparison)--and, even in everyday life, girls like that dress quite a bit differently than what Natsuki does. The closest that I've seen Natsuki really dress like something like that is the coat-stripped T-shirt-Capri jeans and hiking boots deal that she had when she and Toki talked at the cafe and when Apollyon abducted Mizuki and Tetsuro. Other than that, Natsuki dressed like you'd think that any other 20 or so year old young woman would--tank tops, jeans and flats, or a T-shirt and shorts.

And above all else, and I believe that this is probably the most important point, Natsuki doesn't exactly wear her religious beliefs on her sleeve, let alone show a belief that her religious ideals are the only ones that are "right" or "how it should be" or are "superior" to others views. She seems to be way, way more open minded than that. Granted, she does act like a bossy big sister on occasion, but everyone knows why she's doing it, and its her playing the voice of reason, not because she's a Christian--it seems that religion is irrelevant to Natsuki as far as being the big sister/group mom, it's just her nature to support others and help solve problems. Shizu has a nature to be nice and gentle and helpful to others, Natsuki has a nature to be cheerful and help people, and to keep order, and if that means in her case she has to get a bit bossy or show her frustration (albeit in a civil but firm fashion), than so be it if needed (Note: even Mizuki has shades of the grouchy sister at times if somethings nagging her, though she is also helpful and kind to others--common traits among Guyver's female protagonist, it seems). It doesn't mark her out as an arrogant you know what, let alone a religious zealot, but she can act like a grouchy big sister at times if you really push her buttons. That's personality, not religion. She also doesn't ram her religious views down others throats, which goes back to the top of this paragraph. She seems to believe in people having free will, and in people using that free will for good, not evil, but that it's also their choice, even if she doesn't agree with or approve those who commit evil out of their own violation alone.

And now to try and steer this discussion back to it's original subject (Guyver vs Twilight thematic comparison), it should be noted that Carlisle was a Christian before the became a vampire, and that he still adheres to those beliefs, though, like Natsuki, it seems that he doesn't like to force those beliefs onto others and, also like Natsuki, is very respectful of others beliefs, even if he doesn't exactly agree with them. It could be posed that the Volturi are trying to create their own "religion" like it can be argued that Chronos seems to be doing. That goes back to the "god complex" that I mentioned in the past; taking one's beliefs, trying to get others to follow them though force or advocating them though propaganda, and making how one's believes seem like the "be all, end all". In Guyver and Twilight respectivly, Natsuki and her friends, and the Cullen vampires and their allies, don't see things that way.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*Jess♥]

we need to find a filter for you... *crushed by wall of text*

 

I didn't read it all, but I wanted to make note on something you said.

well, swear words don't really exist in Japan.

There is strong language that may be shocking to others but it's usually along the lines of "I will NEVER forgive you".

I can't think of any instance where specific words are considered to be profanity.

especially since so much is derived from context.

some ways of talking are considered inappropriate and perhaps 'taboo', but that usually concerns phrasing and construction etc.

[*Chernaudi]

The profanity deal is derived from the fact that in English translations of Guyver media (translated manga, be it the stuff that GA does or the Viz releases that I've read, the OVAs or even the TV series) do feature occasional mild profanity, mostly what in the US would be dubbed as "PG" rated stuff--hell, damn, ass, the occasional s-bomb. Of course, I can't really question what you've posted about there being no true profanities as we know them in the English speaking world--you're well versed in the Japanese language, I'm not, to say the least. I know various foreign phrases and such, but the only foreign language stuff outside of that is the now long forgotten French and Spanish classes I took in junior high.

Of course, I do wonder why in the English translations why it seems that the female characters shy away from profanity use, while the male characters on occasion swear. As I said, I don't think that it has much if anything to do with Natsuki being a Christian--Shizu and Mizuki also seem to never curse or use profanities of any type. As mentioned, it could be the context of the Japanese words or phrases that the translators have to use, though I do wonder if there's a bit of a gender issue there. Shizu is seen as being very lady-like, and hence, her cursing like Sho, Agito, and Aptom might be seen as being "beneath her", and that seems to apply to the other female characters. I don't think that it's a case of Natsuki being religious, but it seems to be, as you've mentioned, context and, as I'm wondering, maybe a gender perception deal. After all, large scale use of profanity, even today, though not frowned upon often, is still seen as a "rough around the edges/edgy/aggressive" trait for most women in western society.

But then again, in the Twilight Saga (yes, this connects to Twilight, too!), there is also PG-rated profanities that are occasionally encountered. And, ironically, one of the biggest "offenders" is Bella. However, seeing as how Bella is a pretty evident tomboy, it seems that she gets a bit of a pass. Also, Stephanie Meyer is an American, and Yoshiki Takaya is Japanese. Probably not a huge factor, but their audiences might have an impact on those decisions as far as what's "lady-like" and "edgy" for a woman. Kinda goes back to Natsuki and her crucifix necklace. She only wears it once (from what I've seen), but I doubt that she did it because it was "cool and edgy". I do believe that it had a spiritual and sentimental value to her.

But none the less, the women in Twilight do their fair share of profanity usage, with Bella being as big an offender as Edward or Jacob would be. And with Shizu and Agito having spent time in the US and possibly learning English so they can talk to/lead their Libertus, most of whom were born and raised in North America it seems, I'd bet you that they probably know a lot of swear words and suggestive phrases. If that's the case, then it can be argued that Shizu doesn't use profanity, but she probably knows most if not all the words

That's something that sort of sticks out when I've read the translated manga, or watch the OVAs or the TV series episodes, that the guys swear and use profanities every once in a while, but it seems that the female characters seem to shy away from that stuff. I've just sort of wondered if it's a gender issue or a translation issue (sorting out context of words and phrases), or a mix of both. Because in the western world, quite often women seem to be as proficient at profanity usage as men are.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*Jess♥]

but it seems to be, as you've mentioned, context and, as I'm wondering, maybe a gender perception deal. After all, large scale use of profanity, even today, though not frowned upon often, is still seen as a "rough around the edges/edgy/aggressive" trait for most women in western society.

yes, the more colloquial and 'rough around the edges' type of talk is usually reserved for men in Japanese. if a woman refers to herself as 'boku' for example, that is seen as inappropriate, but it is certainly not a swearword.

you see the culture is different. women and men have a different relationship in Japanese society.

In the west it is a power play, with feminism and sexism etc. In Japan, it is not so much. yes there are strong independent women who do things that are unexpected and take on traditional male roles, but it doesn't happen in quite the same way as it does in the west.

 

also, yes shizu and agito may have learned english swearwords, but what you need to be aware of is that they will not understand the true 'bite' of the words. if they do use the words, they are most certainly likely to use them inappropriately, either too often or in the wrong social situation. Because they don't have the social context that we have, the experience of growing up and being told the words were 'taboo' and then we used the words among our friends because we were 'naughty' and 'cool' at the same time... A Native Japanese is unlikely to be able to intuitively understand swearing in the way we do.

 

with regards to translation... ã“ã®é‡ŽéƒŽ, kono yarou, could be translated as 'this asshole', however it depends on the context of the situation, the translator would choose an appropriate term. in the west it is appropriate to swear at someone who was being a real asshole but in Japanese it would not be appropriate... not that such a word exists anyway. ah.. it's hard to explain. there is an inherent respect in Japanese society that means a 'swearword' is somewhat impossible.  In fact the term 'kono yarou' would most accurately mean 'this wild-child'.  but can you imagine a translator using that phrase in a scene that depicts a fierce fight? it's a translators liberty.

[*Jess♥]

I also want to add, that in some ways, the Japanese can express themselves far more viciously than a western use of a swearword.

if a Japanese person wants to be sufficiently aggressive, they might simply say "drop dead". to us, it doesn't really mean much, it's said so often that there is no real meaning, but in Japanese to say this, it is laced with so much venom that it can be considered a heinous insult.  It can probably hold a lot more weight than any of our swearwords.

 

sorry I'm taking this off topic.

[*Chernaudi]

Well, Ryuki, this thread has been pretty much off the rails since I mentioned the stuff with Natsuki being a Christian in the first post, so in that case, it's probably as much my fault as anyone else's.  It was originally a Twilight Saga/Guyver thematic comparison, then it turned into a discussion about Natsuki and if she is/isn't a Christian and the evidence to support either case, and now we're talking about usage of profanity in Guyver vs Twilight.  This all does connect with the Twilight Saga--Natsuki not seeing eye to eye with Chronos with a lot of the stuff that they're doing, and others holding the Volturi in a similar light in Twilight, and the fact that  profanity is used in both stories, though not in an extreme fashion.  However, as far as intensity, the edge goes to Guyver--no one gets called a "bastard" or a "son of a bitch" in any of the Twilight stuff outside of fan fiction.  Meanwhile, those two profanities are used a fair bit in all English versions of Guyver canonizations as insults during fights or confrontations.  But again, it's in the English translated versions that such things are prevalent--I even saw some Guyver OVA episodes on You Tube that were posted of the Japanese speech/English subtitled versions.  They featured much of the same profanities and swearing that were in the English dubbed VHS tapes that I have at home, but that was probably the translator taking liberties with the translation in relation to the context of the usage of the word or phrase for those subtitles.

 

As far as Shizu and Agito being English speakers, they'd probably in general--not just profanities and suggestive phrases--have the normal issues with it being their second language, and English, because so many words sound alike but are spelled differently and have different meanings, it's very hard to learn and it takes a lot of practice, so what you've said about them using swearwords would take the same amount of practice for them to get the meaning across that they want to, hence, the might not (at first) use profanities until they get the rest of using the English language down.  Most people who do learn to speak English fluently as a second langauge usually learn it in their youth.  The Netherlands is an example of this, where almost the entire population is reasonably fluent in English, though it's not an official language in Holland.  This is mostly because American or British TV shows are never re-dubbed and are rarely subtitled, and because American and British songs are popular, so they also pick up English words, phrases and sentences from the song lyrics.  Also, English is taught in most Dutch high schools, since English is the #1 preferred language of the international business world.

 

When it's considered that Agito was basically being groomed to become the head of Chronos Japan (in other words, an executive officer of an international corporation), he probably learned at least conversational English when he was a teenager, so he may've been pretty fluent in English for a while by the time he formed Zeus' Thunderbolts.  And of course, there's the whole "Shizu has learned so much in the past three years" that Grandpa Yohei mentioned to Agito in the manga and TV series.  Of course, we don't know exactly what Shizu learned, considering that she was pretty much home schooled.  However, considering that it seems that she was taught some pretty advanced stuff (Nursing, for one, as well as probably any thing else that she and Yohei could think of as far as helping Agito out), Shizu might have learned some English in case she'd have to use it.  Of course, I can't say for certain, because, after all, it's never really discussed that Shizu learned in those three years aside from anything we could imagine that a teenage girl could use to be of help to her boyfriend.

 

But, long story short, they'd probably catch on fairly quick to how the English language works, but, even with as intelligent as they are, it's still a second language, and as far as swearing/profanity as we know it not really existing in the Japanese language, I'll have to take your word for it--it does seem to be more an issue of context than anything else, and the translation has to make sense more than anything else.  Just try translating about any foreign language text in Google Translate--it's hit or miss to say the least.  And in context, just to use an example from the Guyver universe, the familiar 強殖装甲ガイãƒãƒ¼ is usually translated as meaning either "Bio-Booster Armor Guyver" or "Guyver: The Bio-Boosted Armor", and both are correct in context.  But literally, the actual meaning of that Japanese phrase is "Bio-Strength Boosting Armor Guyver".  Again, we have to go with what makes the most sense in a Japanese to English context.  Also, the well known Audi advertizing phrase "Vorspurng Durch Technik" is usually rendered as meaning "Advancement/Progress though Technology".  However, there's no true 100% accurate word in English that means what "Vorsprung" means in German, so again, the translator had to take a few liberties to get an English phrase that made sense.

 

Of course, as I mentioned, this topic has been derailed for a while as far as it being a true Guyver vs Twilight thematic topic.  That's been discussed, but it's also gone down the "Natsuki Christianity" and "profanity" tangents, too.  So, I'd like to try and right the ship that I do feel that I did sort of capsize.  And I wonder what anyone would think of me discussing the roles of men and women in Guyver vs Twilgiht.  There's for sure some similarities and differences there that can be discussed.

[*Jess♥]

  And in context, just to use an example from the Guyver universe, the familiar 強殖装甲ガイãƒãƒ¼ is usually translated as meaning either "Bio-Booster Armor Guyver" or "Guyver: The Bio-Boosted Armor", and both are correct in context.  But literally, the actual meaning of that Japanese phrase is "Bio-Strength Boosting Armor Guyver".

not quite.

actually, there is no reference to 'bio' in the japanese phrase.

"boost armoured"  is probably the most closely fit translation.

 

kyou - strongly

shoku - augment

soukou - armoured

 

(strongly augment = boost. )

[Larz Zahn]

So... Bio is just like what? An English add on?

[*Jess♥]

I honestly don't know where it came from.

I don't know who's responsible for it. it's possible yoshiki takaya is responsible for the english name and could have given the name during some talks with one of the earliest english publishers.

or it's possible  it was derived from some common used like:

ç¹æ®– hanshoku - breed/multiply

生殖 seishoku - reproduce (biological term)

 

but we should also note non biological terms such as :

貨殖 kashoku - money making

学殖 gakushoku - scholarship

 

plus, bio-boost is fairly accurate in terms of it's descriptiveness.

[*Chernaudi]

As far as the language deal, one can put the whole Kanji phrase in to Google translate, all one will get back is "Guyver", with no reference to the "Bio-Booster/Boosted Armor" part unless it's put in separately.  That part is rendered on their translator as "Bioboosted Armor Strength", though that's probably a nuance of their translation system.  At least it manages to get the "Guyver" part right--others render Guyver as "Gaybar" or something like that.  As I said, using online translators is usually hit or miss unless it's a really good one.  Google at least lets you get a sense for what is being said, in that such translations are at least decipherable most of the time, but it's by no means very accurate most of the time, either.  And for the record, in a manga guide called "Manga: The Complete Guide". under the section on Guyver, the full English title, of course, is posted as Bio-Booster Armor Guyver, which is what Viz called the translated manga, and what US Renditions used on the title cards for their English translated OVA tapes (and used that same title on the back panel of the Act II VHS tapes and on the Guyver: Out of Control VHS).  However, the author also listed the Japanese and Romaji titles as literally meaning "Strength-Boosting Armor Guyver"

 

To be fair, both are probably accurate in context:  Strength is one of the things that the Guyver armor enhances for it's host, but I believe that the "Bio-" part comes in as far as a descriptor of the armor as being a living, quasi-sentient biological creature in and of itself.  The Guyver armor isn't an inanimate metal, it is a living creature that can, to a degree, think for itself when it's host is unable to, such as the times that Sho was unconscious (Unit merger, regeneration in Chronos Japan's HQ, battling the Enzyme II that his father was turned into), or when the control medal teaches Sho how to use the unit's various weapons.  That could be the translator taking some liberties with the translation, or simply adding a descriptor that covers more than just "strength-boosting".  Of course, on the actual manga issues, the title is rendered in English as being "Guyver: The Bioboosted Armor"(probably should have a hyphen between Bio and Boosted, that would seem to work better in English), so it's something that seems to fit, even if it's not what the Japanese title directly translates to.

 

Now, to try and move on to another topic, I'd like to talk about the roles of female protagonist in Guyver and Twilight.  Of course, I'm gonna defend both Mizuki and Bella a bit.  To be fair, they're both in a world where it can be argued that "normal" humans don't really belong.  Bella is in a world where her BF/husband Edward and his whole family are vampires that normally hunt and kill humans as a food source (the Cullens don't kill humans for their blood, preferring to hunt animals), while Jacob is a shape-shifting wolf, and such creatures were known for having violent mood swings where they--albeit unintentionally--can injure or kill normal humans.

 

In Mizuki's case, her BF/probable future husband Sho is a host for an alien-designed suit of bionic battle armor that turns him, in short, into an (especially initially) unwilling armor-plated superhero.  Also, Sho battles against Chronos and their army of Zoanoids, mostly to protect the likes of her and Tetsuro and their friends at first, and, more recently, to right the wrongs that Chronos has committed. 

 

In both of their cases, it would be fair to say that they don't have a chance in hell to survive if they had to fight, not at least until Bella becomes a vampire in Breaking Dawn.  However, they do symbolize the types of people that the male protagonist, who happen to be their romantic interests, are trying to defend.  Mizuki symbolizes the people who Sho wants to defend and wants to see more of as far as influencing the world.  Edward sees Bella as representing the reason why he abstains from the "normal" vampire life and his admiration and respect of human life.  And it turns out that neither Bella or Mizuki are as weak as they at times think that they are.  Bella bailed Edward's ass out of a few situations in spite of her being a "weak" normal human, such as him trying to kill himself in Volterra, and also getting him to "see the light" as far as him ultimately dropping his self-loathing nature.  Mizuki's emotional connections to Sho has helped him overcome quite a few situations and problems, such as giving him the will to fight, and, like Bella with Edward, got him to see past his thoughts that he's a monster, and that he's still got his humanity, which also helps with his will to fight against Chronos.

 

There's two more things that I'd like to write a bit about (and yes, I'll probably drive Ryuki insane with all of this text should he read this, if I haven't already), but these are things that are important to me with the female character deal, and those are the "action girl" and "tomboy vs girly-girl" aspects, and I'll work on the action girl stuff, first.

 

In Twilight, we do have Alice (vampire), Rosalie (vampire), and Leah (shape-shifter) as action girls, with Victoria being a dark action girl.  Bella also becomes an action girl (more so in the film than in the novel) after she becomes a vampire.  In Guyver, we only have two action girls in the true sense, those being Shizu/Griselda and Valcuria/female Guyver II (and yes, I'm well aware of the multiple spellings of her name).  I've seen Natsuki being referred to as a "sensible action girl" once during a chapter discussion on this forum, and that may be.  She doesn't fight, but she seems to be more enterprising and adventurous than Mizuki is, and she's definitely not afraid of Zoanoids, at least in their human form. 

 

But in a traditional sense, at least among protagonist, Shizu is about all we have as an action girl in the commonly perceived sense.  Of course, it's fair to term her as such; as Griselda, she can cut Zoanoids apart, has the physical strength to rip them limb from limb, she functions like an army General within Zeus' Thunderbolts as a leader of men (she a girl who commands men and instructs them as to what to do), and she does all kinds of things that someone who seems to be overtly very girly most of the time don't do stereotypically.  That does have a bit on the "tomboy vs girly girl" debate, but that's later. 

 

However, for all their action girlyness, Rosalie and Alice are still very much overtly girly, and Shizu takes that to 11.  Rosalie can be bossy and stuck up at times, but she calms down as far as that goes after Bella gets pregnant with Renesmee, and Alice does all the things that women are associated with as far as events within the Saga, and she's the upbeat, kind, good-natured type.  And for her part, Shizu may be an action girl, but she's never overly harsh and she's definitely not nasty to others.  She's def. kind, good-natured and gentle.  Of course, she can also be pretty damn dangerous when she's acting out of Agito's interest, or her and Agito's combined interest.  And it can be argued by how she follows Agito and, for the most part, is quick to do whatever she thinks will help him, that she's a bit of a push over--similar arguments were made of Bella as far as her relationship with Edward.  Of course, Shizu and Bella were both acting out of their own volition and felt that they owed to them and their partner to do what they did.

 

Lastly, there's the "tomboy and girly girl" stuff.  I already touched on it with the "action girl" discussion.  Bella is for sure a tomboy--she hates getting dressed up and wearing makeup.  TV Tropes does say that Natsuki is the most tomboyish of the female Guyver protagonist.  There's some reasoning to that, as she seems to shy away from getting really dressy, but at the same time, I don't see how she's really much different than most girls today in that respect.  Everyday where I work, most women (and where I work has an overwhelmingly female staff) dress like Natsuki does; jeans or slacks, flats, and tank tops or sweaters.  Mizuki, for the most part, doesn't seem to dress much more femininely than Natsuki does.  And her hairstyle is sometimes seen as being a bit tomboyish.  However, I'd call it "edgy" or "chic", but not really tomboyish.  The only things that I'd say that Natsuki is overtly tomboyish with is with her interest in science fiction and how she's taken it upon herself to help out Sho and Aptom and their friends/allies, not to mention how she can guess at what type of a Zoanoid people could be, or who might be a good candidate for such a thing, even if she's appalled by the very idea of Zoaforming.

 

As for Shizu, well, she's sort of femininity incarnate:  she's often been shown wearing dresses and sandals in the manga, dresses/skirts with feminine tops and dress flats in the TV series (it seems that she rarely wears jeans and such as casual wear), has seemingly insanely long hair styled in a feminine fashion, and she acts like what we stereotype how feminine girls act:  kind, considerate, gentle, compassionate.  However, she does have a side that we might consider being tomboyish, and that's when she's helping out Agito.  She, even before she became Griselda, showed a bit of an aggressive side, namely when Neo Zx-Tole tried to kill Agito when Shizu was by his side.  In both the manga and TV series, when Zx-Tole insisted that she move or die, she stood up, yelled at him, and basically told him to kill her if he wanted a shot at Agito.  And she, even as a human, wasn't very afraid of Zoanoids, either, and was usually never far from Agito while he was fighting after she was introduced.  So she's pretty brave and aggressive for a girly girl as far as Guyver goes, let alone after she became Griselda.

 

Those are my thoughts on the subjects of action girls and tomboy vs girly girl as far as Twilight and Guyver go.  They have a balance of both, including those who can do both tomboy and girly girl.  Of course, if I think of more stuff, I'll add later on, but I'd like to read some thoughts on my observations and opinions.

[*Jess♥]

To be fair, both are probably accurate in context:  Strength is one of the things that the Guyver armor enhances for it's host,

to be fair, no.  that would be a lazy guess when looking a the kanji separately.

comparing to similar kanji combinations we would see that either kanji is often used alongside other kanji and compliment each other in a particular way.

kyou often used as a prefix to describe something being done in a strengthened manner.

 

a note here, authors can often be lazy or make mistakes when their field of expertise is not translating.

example, in an article I have in a magazine, archanfel is introduced as 'aruka sulfur'.

 

you could say I'm a little excessive in my investigations. durendal is better at translating things in context and colloquial terms etc. but when it comes to accuracy, I don't take things lightly, I study, and I study hard.

[*Chernaudi]

But then again, that's the issue with using online translators: they can give you the gist of what a foreign phrase means, but outside of that, it's a shot in the dark. Google Translate is, in my personal experience, very dodgy. You can just about usually decipher what is being said, but it's by no means very accurate 90% of the time. The big problem is that it seems to take the sentence or phrase you put in the box, and it translates word for word, giving a literal meaning of that word. Why that doesn't work is that it ignores the context of the collection of the words and what the words as they're arranged mean as a whole.

One thing that I'll never say about Guyver Advocacy is that you guys get it wrong. Being well versed in Japanese, I have to say that there's an extremely good chance that about everything is 100% accurate. Of course, and I don't want to sound like an a-hole about it because I don't want to come of as such considering that it's something pretty minor, I did notice that in the chapter (Nov 2012 issue) after Shizu and Agito return to Zeus' Thunderbolt's HQ in Colorado, there was one instance where Shizu in her conversation said "has died" when "have died" probably would've sounded a bit better, but that's probably me being pretty anal retentive with the English language and me being a writer. Besides, as has been pointed out if this was "real life", unless she's fluent in English and has used it very often, we can't expect Shizu to get things right every time with use of English words that have similar meanings, but different spellings and phonetic contexts. It's her second language, after all, and English is one of the hardest secondary languages for people to learn. I can be stickler for that, but I also have to be fair--at least her meaning was clear (which is all that I can ask for), and as translators, you guys can only go off of what you have to work with. And besides, it was only one minor mistake with context, and not really a big deal. It sounded a bit off mostly, but the meaning wasn't really damaged, so I've let it pass--I even missed it the first several times I read it. That's not a knock in away way, but it is a difficult job to say the least to translate a lot of that stuff.

And then, there's the issues with slang and colloquial stuff that's probably often a pain, and, of course, words that exist in one language that don't really exist in another or there's on direct equivalent in that language, such as the profanity stuff mentioned earlier not really existing in Japanese as it does in Western languages. Another reason to take the word of a pro as far as translating stuff over most online translators if one wants accuracy.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Chernaudi

[*Jess♥]

well google translate is actually an adaptive translation engine. a lot of the translations it gives are reliant upon people correcting it when it gets something wrong. so a lot of phrases that it provides can be quite good. on many occasions, when I have trouble with a particular expression, I throw it through Google translate to give me a boost and possible figure out some context. sometimes it works, sometimes i get garbage.

[*V Guyver]

just my 2 cents on Natsuki. cross thing. She doesn't wear a cross constantly, most Christians do. 

[*Chernaudi]

I don't know if I should post this in the other Guyver/Twilight thread, but since this is a question more about the Guyver units and how they function, I though that I'd post this question here.  One of my friends at a Twilight forum and on Facebook asked if/how Twilight vampires can see in a sandstorm.  That did make me think of Guyver, and how Agito has at times used his hyper sense orbs to "see" though things, like a wall and the Gigantic chrysalis when Sho was in there.  Those orbs, from what I can remember from discussions here and the VDF pages under the Guyver manga tab, detect electo-magnetic abnormalities and disturbances in electro-magnetic and gravitational fields--of course, Twilight vampires don't really have these. 

 

But to get to my real point and question, Twilight vampires can see not only in the normal visual spectrum like we can (albeit in a much enhanced form), they can also see in the ultraviolet and, possibly, infrared spectrums.  I assume, obviously, that the Guyver armor enhances it's host's vision as far as being able to see much further and more clearly, and can pick up on things as far as that sense much faster than normal humans can.  But aside from that, can Guyvers also sense other things with their vision, such as the ultraviolet and infrared spectrums? 

 

As I wrote, I don't know if this is more suited for here or my other Guyver/Twilight topic, but I did try and search for this earlier using the search function, and I didn't really get much of an answer on this as far as what the search located.

[Larz Zahn]

As far as i know. The hosts vision isn't touched. No telescopic or any other forms of enhancement. As for the sensor orbs. the manga shows them to have many abilities. Agito used then to tell that there was a cavern underground when he was fighting Guyot. And Guyver 2f could sense the heat build up of a bio when she made her escape from the cronus base. And Sho probably showed the coolest ability. The mangas artwork depicted that Sho could see the entire base like a 3d blueprint. But as far as the Guyver eyes are concerned, i don't remember the manga ever mentioning or showing anything extra.

[*Chernaudi]

Thing is, I'd assume that if the aliens were going to create a bionic battle armor that enhances a person's strength, stamina, resilience and give them all kinds of weapons, it would seem natural that the host's senses would be enhanced to allow them to take advantage of those weapons and abilities.

Of course, I read the VDF under the manga tab here, and there seems to be little if any mention of how the Guyver armor enhances a person's senses beyond the hyper-sense organs that we've discussed and there's not much in the way of how vision or hearing is effected. IMO, it would seem to be a bit of a short-chain to give the armor and its host all of those abilities, and not the enhanced senses to use them to the full. But, as I typed, there seems to be little if any mention on how Guyver units effect a person's senses or sensory perception as far as vision or hearing outside of the hyper-sense. That's something that's greatly enhanced and it's usefulness has been very clearly demonstrated by Agito, Val, and Sho.

Bot back to the Guyver vs Twilight stuff, Twilight vampires I do know can see in the ultraviolet and maybe infrared spectrums outside of what we would consider to be normal vision, and that sense is heightened because they can see clearer and further out. Interestingly, my father told me once quite a few years ago that a normal human being with decent vision can, in theory at least (without visual obstructions and on a clear, bright day) see stuff up to 30 miles away if those conditions are met. So take that and magnify that, and you'll get what a Twi-pire can do with their sight as far as just basic vision, though I don't know specifically to what degree that gets enhanced--at least Takaya does try and give us hard numbers on such things so we can imagine what such enhancements might be similar to.

And Twilight vampires can also sense things such as movement, the presence of something, and changes in an object, though such things are different than a Guyver's hyper-sense. Twilight vamps can sense the presence of something or changes in the physical state of something just because the sensory perception of those senses are far enhanced compared to normal. For example, Bella could sense changes when Renesmee would grow in height or her hair would grow, Bella sensing both changes even if it was just a couple of millimeters.

However, it is sort of hard to make a guess at which is superior, because Stephanie doesn't give out numbers or percentages on how such things are superior to average human beings, though Takaya does whenever he can.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Chernaudi

[Mirabilis]

Just a note I know Natsuki wore a cross back in some of the earlier books (believe when they were fighting Mirabilis).

 However I know many people who wear crosses who are not Christians too. We really have no way of knowing one way or another because it hasn't been specified in either way. Though we can assume she is one as she does wear a crucifix and she has a really big problem with people who have been optimized/processed.