About the remover and Guyver 2F

[*Jess♥]

durendal! you took the words right out of my mouth !

yes, this is something I have also thought about.

guyot is not a badass any more. he still has neat powers but he is nowhere near a match for shou or agito.

he only has a dummy crystal so taking on either of them is suicide. especially since they have a gigantic each. he can't even get them off guard while the other is using the gigantic.

also, it does take a while to charge the remover. so what he really needs to do is to get into an advantageous position. stealing the segawa siblings was no doubt part of his plan to gain an advantage. he figured he could get shou to submit and take his unit. maybe.

alkenfel009, you make a fair point, but i am unsure if it is that simple. how does the remover work? does it use a specific frequency? what if cronos are using a different protocol or different frequencies?

let's look at it this way.

an iphone and a samsung note, both use phone networks, both connect to the internet, both transmit voice and data. but if you plug the samsung into itunes, it will not connect. on the other and, if you hit them both with a hammer, they will both smash.

so it depends if the unit remover is using brute force, or if it is using a specific frequency.

my opinion... the CM has to be pretty robust in order to be an effective and reliable system. the resistance to brute force must be pretty high so I think the remover uses a specific frequency and protocol.

now the question is in my mind, if the fake CM is made to specification. this is actually ironic because the question i am asking is... is the artificial control metal 'kikakugaihin'? in the words of the creators, the artificial CM could be 'guyver' in and of itself.

if it is to specification, then the protocols and information exchange mechanisms will be the same. if not, then it would be a sort of jerry-rig. if produces the same effect, but the inner workings are different.

[*guyverfan]

correct, i was actually agreeing with your first post in my own funky way, in that if a sonic pulse/blast is capable of passing through the armour, then its quite possible that the removers frequency would aswell.

(if the host data is erased from the cm when removed, would a new host still be able to call forth the gigantic? or would the gigantic data also be erased from the cm through the process?)

Edited December 21, 2012 by guyverfan

[Guyver0]

Leaning a bit off topic here, but would it be possible for Guyot to survive his encounter with Alchanfel using the energy from the Remover? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember the remover needing charging using bio-energy. Perhaps Guyot can siphon back the energy that he put into the remover to get out of harms way even for just an instant?

I've never thought about that Durendal. That is a very plausible scenario with Guyot being sustained from the bio-energy still stored in the Remover.

However, I've been wondering do we really know what the Remover fires. I mean does it really send out some form of a sonic pulse or an actual ray? The only description I have any bases off of it is from the Handbook that states;

"Guyver Unit Remover: This is a device that will remove the bioboosted armor. The ray it fires will erase a user's data from the control metal, and fully separate user from Guyver unit."

That's the description anyways, so should we take this in the literal sense that what the remover shoots is a ray of some sorts or a light that carries bio-signals?

This also poses the question of what would happen to the Gigantic? Would it be lost in the boost dimension to never be seen again or will it appear in our dimension and await for another Guyver to become it's master?

What does anyone else think?

[LordSpleach]

Well when it comes to Guyot's energy reserves, we don't know his current limits to his endurance. He has using those custom zoanoids(forgot their name) at the moment. We don't know if he has the same endurance as Murakami did or if he might be a little bit better since he was originally processed as a full-fledged zoalord.

IMO, I can imagine that he would have to use most of his bio-energy just to charge up one shot. As for the Gigantic, I could see Sho actually putting a fail-safe program that summons the Gigantic to block the remover's 'attack'. I don't think the remover could get rid of the Gigantic because the Remover was made by the advents to remove the units after use. The Gigantic armor was a recent invention that was made by Sho that utilizes the power afforded by the Creator's ship.

[*Jess♥]

However, I've been wondering do we really know what the Remover fires. I mean does it really send out some form of a sonic pulse or an actual ray? The only description I have any bases off of it is from the Handbook that states;

This is pretty much one of the most important questions here.

This is what we have been going over, trying to get at how the remover actually works.

the handbook you mentioned, is that the one from the tv series?

The VDF states pretty much the same thing, but does not mention a beam.

though what we do know is that the remover must charge. so it is building up energy for some kind of discharge.

maybe like an old camera flash unit perhaps. also, if the term beam is correct, then it would also correlate with what is shown in the manga panels. it would make sense that it is discharging some form of electromagnetic waves.

we can't say for certain but it does seem likely.

if it were true, could it be sending out a beam of low wavelengths, perhaps transmitting with high intensity short range radio waves alongside the light? or maybe using specific frequencies of light pulsing in various patterns?

maybe by focusing towards the guyver, it is emitting a burst of intense waves on all frequencies in order to effectively scramble all data storage, sort of like the electromagnetic pulse that would come from a nuclear detonation.

[*guyverfan]

(if the host data is erased from the cm when removed, would a new host still be able to call forth the gigantic? or would the gigantic data also be erased from the cm through the process?)

yes, i did mean the gigantic data in the original unit G cm.

as guyver0 put it, quote 'would it be lost in the boost dimension, never to be seen again'.

what i was thinking was that if the 'original unit G' is removed by deleting all the users data, would it also erase the gigantic data stored within 'original unit G', since this data stored is not part of the original unit G programming and obviously the gigantic can only be called forth when the unit G is active.

fffeeeuuu, hopefully thats specific!

much like a mobile phone, comes with basic programmes/data, you add apps, ringtones etc, but when you hard reset, you're only left with the original programming.

Edited December 22, 2012 by guyverfan

[*Jess♥]

since the description of the remover is that it clears host data, I don't think we can conclusively state that it would remove gigantic data.

but is the data that is required to call the gigantic, host data? or is it guyver systems data?

[Guyver0]

the handbook you mentioned, is that the one from the tv series?

The VDF states pretty much the same thing, but does not mention a beam.

Yeah it's from the tv series. I'm not posting to correct anyone, but hopefully just provide a little bit more insight.

I know I am only referencing from the anime, but to me the Remover looks like it is firing some sort of beam or ray of light instead of something that is on a sonic or frequency level. The only references that I can think of that the control metal had communicated with something else is in the Guyver 2 Movie that after the Guyver Zoanoid was defeated the two CMs were "conversing" with one another, Sho getting connected to the ship, and in episode 6 of the 12 part ova when Guyver 3 woke Guyver 1 up with their control metals "conversing". Perhaps if we can figure out if their communication was through sound waves, frequencies, beams, or hell even bio-light then maybe we can conclude what the Remover utilizes.

Just a suggestion.

[*guyverfan]

hahahaha, yeah, thanks alot guyver0, lets add something else into the porridge, as if it wasn't thick enough already'bio-light', hehehehe ,

oooouuuuuch, my head hurts.

[odin]

I'm glad my questions are getting this much debate, I love hearing everyone's opinions and theories, anyways about the Gigantic data, since it is something that shou created in order fight Zoalords I don't think it would be erased, my opinion on what the Guyver unit does is that it bonds with the host DNA so it can enhance it physically and all the remover does is remove that DNA bond so it can bond with another host, I don't think it would erase the gigantic since it is basically a feature available to the unit like the mega smasher and head beam are.

[*guyverfan]

since the description of the remover is that it clears host data, I don't think we can conclusively state that it would remove gigantic data.

but is the data that is required to call the gigantic, host data? or is it guyver systems data?

good question, well agito was able to create his own gigantic using the data that was imprinted on his cm from using sho's gigantic.

but, agito was hell bent on obtaining the gigantic when sho first appeared with it, they could of just transfered the data through both guyvers cm so agito would be able to call the gigantic aswell. instead, it was some time later in battle that agito jumped infront of the crystalist and was swallowed inside when sho had called it. from that time forth agito was able to use sho's gigantic.

Edited December 22, 2012 by guyverfan

[*Jess♥]

let's think about how the gigantic was made.

the CM (and possibly the navi spheres that were linked to it) recorded data on the zoalords. the system then used the resources it had available to construct a system to protect against that foe.

in this regard, the gigantic is not much different from the standard armour. it is a set of statistical data and schematics for a defensive/offensive system.

at its core, it is the relic ship in a new configuration. the connection from gigantic to user is via the DCM and the way in which it connects, when as a ship, is through a beam of light and proximity.

is the connection to gigantic, the same type of connection as when shou interfaced with the relic ship?

in this case, it is a connection shou didn't have to begin with and is not necessarily designed to be a permanent connection. how does shou re-interface with it? he has some connection data.

my thought on this, is that the connection/ interface with the relic ship, is a temporary one and specific to each user. if a unit were to go back to a dormant state, would a new user automatically have access to the relic ship? I don't think that makes sense. chances are, shou's unit had been activated before. if it retained the connection to the relic, then either shou or agito would have been able to communicate with the relic ship from afar before accessing it.

now I'm actually correcting myself on the fly here, because i had assumed they had no connection with it, but now I think about how the door opened automatic ally for them.

I guess I'll end my post here by asking the question, do we think they were connected to the relic before entering the control room? could they have called the relic ship to them at any time?

perhaps they had full access to it, but just weren't aware of it.

[odin]

That it may be the case or they needed to be in a certain amount of range in order to communicate and establish a synch, you made a great analogy earlier with them being like Androids and Iphones and gigantic is probably like a glorified app as well as the other Guyver weapons. If the Guyver goes dormant and activated again in my opinion it is possible to activate gigantic with that unit cause it has been downloaded already and placed in the boost dimension with the regular unit and all that the user needs to do is either 1) know about it's existence of the gigantic or 2) if the user wills something that requires the gigantic the Unit will automatically tell it how to use it like it did with shou's other weapons.

[Guyver0]

I guess I'll end my post here by asking the question, do we think they were connected to the relic before entering the control room? could they have called the relic ship to them at any time?

perhaps they had full access to it, but just weren't aware of it.

Perhaps since their units came from the ship originally that the ship "recognized" the units. However if we were to take that idea do you mean that the Guyver's would only have access to the ships they belonged too? If so than how was Agito able to communicate with the Navigational Spheres from the Arizona branch?

Also I just read in my handbook that there are a third remains of Uranus' ship located in China's Uyghur Autonomous Region, but it literally says the details are vague. So for all we know there could be another set of Navigational Spheres out there somewhere.

[LordSpleach]

Did the VDF mention that as well? I know the handbook you're talking is from the 2005 anime. I'm guess you have the ADV release, because I have the three 'Master files' as they call them from ADV's Guyver Volumes 1, 4, and 7.

It's from page 25 from Master File 3:

"SACRED CASKET OF URANUS

These are the fossilized remains of the Creators' greatest spacecraft, located underground of the Chronos headquarters in Arizona. Just three of these spacecraft have been confirmed to exist on Earth, but aside from the one under Mount Minakami, only fossilized remains have been found. It is said that the third set of remains are located somewhere in China's Uyghur Autonomus Region, but details are vague."

The rebel zoalords' base is in the Karakorum Mountain Rang which spans the borders between Pakistan, India and China, That's about 1500 kilometers southwest of Uyghur.

Now since I've been posting and reading the forum, Takaya-sensei has never seemed to be predictable, but I've always felt that his writing has been top notch, not pulled out of his ass. He might be like the famous sci-fi author Frank Herbert. His Dune universe has had an extensive amount of history just for the small amount of novels he has written. I know his son has been co-writing novels of the Dune universe based on the notes. Now if Takaya-sensei makes similar notes to give himself ideas on what to next and he was definitely involved in the process of making the 2005 anime, did he give us a hint about the rebel zoaloads' future plans? Interesting thought, eh? Just wonder if the 3rd ruins was actually mentioned in the VDF?

Now back to the topic, I think the Guyver unit probably have general access to any ship that assigned to the Gaia project. That's probably why Agito could communicate with the navigation spheres of a relic different from his unit's origin. Security probably wasn't tight cause the Advents were the only intelligent beings there anyway.

[Aether]

@ DVD booklet and 3rd relic!!!!!!!!!!!!

great thinking Lordspleach!!, i presume we will find out in about book 35 or so?....

man people keep talking about the booklets... did they only come with the original single disc release of the dvds?? are they included in the economy boxsets at all??

@ the thread topic

in the manga translations from chuang yi we have pulsed waves and in the Advocacy version waves being beamed... i dont think the Advocacy has translated the datafile on the unit remover from book 8?? unless i just dont have it??

to be honest i dont think it matters whichever is more accurate...although the illustrations does resemble more a beam than a wave, a beam of light of any description is fundamentally a wave OR a particle anyway- so maybe the unit remover fires photon particles as a beam of light and the CM receieves them and decodes them into EM waves that then resonate together and the unit is instructed to delete the host data.

on the Gigantic - if it can block the beam / wave then theres no problem, if however the beam / wave bypasses it , you could say that maybe its a question of the main CM being effected then the unit Gitself disengaging which in turn would disengage the Gigantic???

also i think maybe it depends on the learning ability of the CM... maybe the Gigantic data is stored in Guyvers file or maybe its stored in the hosts / shou's file???without a copy (that Agito now has) of Shous personal file,app or program that he created to create the Gigantic i assume it would be useless. whos to say the remains of the relics wouldnt just revert o being extraterrestrial organic matter and bits of alien metal??

i think going back to Odins original question a bigger question is what exactly is Guyver 2F??????????

Edited December 23, 2012 by Aether

[LordSpleach]

With Guyver 2F's artificial control medal, I can't help but keep thinking that her medal is made from fragments from Guyver 2's. Hence naming herself 2F instead of 4. Obviously, it's still a reference to the Out of Control movie, but I imagine that's how Takaya-sensei would explain it.

[*Jess♥]

Aether,

do you have book 8 Japanese?

if so, can you scan that datafile, because I don't have access to it.

if I can see the text, I'll go to the trouble of searching the kanji and translating the important parts.

[Aether]

Aether,

do you have book 8 Japanese?

if so, can you scan that datafile, because I don't have access to it.

if I can see the text, I'll go to the trouble of searching the kanji and translating the important parts.

heres the datafile for the remover......

[*Jess♥]

稼動時å´é¢ フロント 通常時å´é¢ ã‚Šã‚¢

in operation side - front - normal side - rear

â€éºè·¡â€ 内部ã§ç™ºè¦‹ã•ã‚ŒãŸã¨æ€ã—ãé™è‡¨è€…ã®éºç”£ã®ã²ã¨ã¤ã€‚

discovered within the "relic" and seems like the advents last remaining legacy.

ギュオーãŒã€

ãã—ã¦ã‚¢ãƒ«ã‚«ãƒ³ãƒ•ã‚§ãƒ«ãŒç•°æ§˜ãªã¾ã§ã®åŸ·ç€ã‚’示ã—ãŸâ€è¬Žã®ç‰©ä½“â€ã®æ­£ä½“ã€

ãã‚Œã¯å¼·æ®–装甲をâ€åˆæœŸåŒ–â€ã™ã‚‹ã‚·ã‚¹ãƒ†ãƒ ã§ã‚ã£ãŸã€‚

guyot,

then alkanphel strange ongoing obsession indicates "mysterious objects" true nature,

as a bio-booster armour initialisation system.

ã“ã®ãƒ¦ãƒ‹ãƒƒåœ ・ リムーãƒãƒ¼ã‹ã‚‰ç…§å°„ã•ã‚Œã‚‹ç‰¹æ®Šãªãƒ‘ルスã«ã¯ã€ 制御装置ã«è¨˜éŒ²ã•ã‚ŒãŸæ®–装者ã®ãƒ‡ãƒ¼ã‚¿ã‚’完全ã«æ¶ˆåŽ»ã—〠強殖装甲を起動以å‰ã® â€ãƒ¦ãƒ‹ãƒƒãƒ‰ 状態ã«é‚„å…ƒã™ã‚‹åŠ¹æžœãŒã‚ã‚‹ã®ã ã€‚

This Unit Remover lights up a unique pulse to, completely purge 'booster' data that the control metal recorded, therefore resulting in the bio-booster armour returning to pre-activation "unit" state.

ユニット。リムーãƒãƒ¼

unit remover

全長/153cm (稼動時/184cm)

overall length/153cm (in operation/184cm)

全幅/38cm (稼動時/61cm)

overall width/38cm (in operation/61cm)

通常時å‰æ–¹ãƒ‘ース

normal front perspective

稼動時å‰æ–¹ãƒ‘ース

in operation forward perspective

ギュオーã¨ã®å¯¾æ¯”

lord guyot comparison

if anyone can check this for me, I would be most grateful. I've already spent about 4 hours on it, I should have been playing dragon's dogma [emote=onion]cry[/emote]

[*Jess♥]

I'll add some notes. 'booster' is defined as "the bio-boosted person"

the unique pulse comes from the remover by way of it lighting up.

here the noun 'light' is being used as a verb. light coming from the remover and creating the unique pulse.

I think it's pretty clear, I hope I'm communicating it effectively.

[lost unit]

hmm very interesting find great translating Ryuki . Makes me wonder if we if we have missed any other data files from the japanese books.Anybody check it out for me.

[*Jess♥]

We have certainly missed many of them, but it's not something I am likely to approach myself because of the way they are written. this was very difficult to translate, and the others are likely to be just as troublesome.

[Aether]

great job Ryuki. thanks

so would you say that it is refering to a light beam?

or that the remover lights up then sends a pulse out?? (i.e maybe it lights up because of the bio energy fed into it and then it sends out just a pulse wave??

i bet after 4 hours of translation you dont care at the moment !!!!

[*Jess♥]

I've slept since then

the terms for 'lighting up' and 'unique pulse' are both together. it is a complete phrase.

so it's safe to say the unique pulse is a pulse of light.

I'd love it if durendal reviewed my translation to make sure, but how I currently understand it, the way the remover works is definitely by a light pulse.

a strobe type effect.

you mentioned light beam... well whichever way we look at it, the pulse of light will form a beam. because that is what light does.