Has the media lost their creativity?

[Tales]

This topic was made by a member from my own forum http://beyondword.forumotion.net/intelligent-debates-f15/has-the-west-lost-their-creativity-t321.htm#1778 He thinks that the media has lost its creative juices in movies.etc Discuss this

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tales

[durendal]

When did the west ever get creative? All they ever do is copy.

[*Jess♥]

this is an old issue.

no. nobody is losing anything.

classics are made by time, not by people.

you look back and see greatness, but remember, at that time there was just as much crap as there is today and the good ones at that time were not seen as the 'greats' that they are seen as now.

this is the same in movies, games, animation, books. EVERYTHING.

When did the west ever get creative? All they ever do is copy.

this surprises me. a lot.

since sentai was essentially, japanese trying to mimic marvel.

and astro boy was trying to mimic ... i think it was betty boop or something like that..

also, you might be forgetting things like "the fifth element"

[durendal]

Actually, my point was that the west just simply copy, whilst the Japanese, even though they imitate, at least introduce something new that would make them seem original. I guess you could say that this is where the pioneering habits of the Japanese comes in.

[*Jess♥]

i'm not seeing it.

do you think you could provide some examples?

[Tales]

The Power RAngers, the Masked Riders are all just copied concepts... from their Japanese counterparts So is Eragon which is like a medieval version of Star Wars.....etc. Dragonball Evilution[Evolution] is a s*** copy of the original. The upcoming Last Airbender Movie directed by Midnight S. is going to be another box office bomb.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tales

[durendal]

i'm not seeing it.

do you think you could provide some examples?

Well, like Tales have provided, west copying east is very evident. But I'm not really that well informed of east copying west. (this is in terms of media only, fashion and the other stuff are quite evident). but using your example above, Sentai imitating marvel, were you refering to X-men? If so, I don't see the x-men wearing similar outfits with different colors and using weapons or giant robots. The east may imitate the general idea, but the west copies the whole thing. I give you example. Lakehouse starring Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock (believe it or not, I loved that movie). This movie was based on the korean film Il Mare.

I'm not sure if you would understand this, but copying is somewhat different from imitating.

[Tales]

Check out these articles Why Hollywood Remakes Don't Measure up to the Asian Originals Part 1 Part 2 Part 3

As for the east copying the west, it's much fewer than hollywood. The only one I saw a movie called Kungfu Cyborg in China. It's like a chinese version of M. Bay's Transformers.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tales

[*Jess♥]

some things you guys need to understand is that the majority of american and british only understand 1 language. english.

it is normal for you guys to know at least 2 languages so that is why you will get a lot of western movies and be able to understand. it is not true in the reverse. the americans making an english language version of a certain film, is not because of lack of creativity it is because the original version will not be very accessible to the general populace.

power rangers is not a copied concept either. it is a strict adaptation to start off with. and for the same reasons as stated above, english actors and voices were used.

eragon is not a medieval star wars, eragon was based on a book and any similarities are due to influence. I can't even believe that you would use that as an example of copying.

and making movie adaptations of things is also not a very convincing argument. i don't see you complaining about the death note movie for example. and japan has plenty of sequels to things. i don't suppose gransazer can be accused of copying off sentai series? what about rescue fire?

I could go a lot further and start by saying that magiranger seemed to appear at around the same time as harry potter reached it's peak of popularity. i can cite many other example if you wish.

durendal, through my research long ago, I learned that a lot of the original influence for sentai was heroes like spiderman.

the original sentai series did not have a giant robot. obviously it has evolved a lot since then and grown so many original ideas.

heres a link, skip down to the part in italics. http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/sentai.htm

[*Jess♥]

additional,

do you think the focus on "the west" could be construed as discrimination?

please edit your first post to make it clearer and more fair. if you want to pick at certain studios etc. that is fine, but please do not label a whole group of countries and races under one banner.

you guys need to be careful because i am finding myself slightly offended.

i know you guys and i know you are not that kind of people which is why i am struggling here.

[Tales]

some things you guys need to understand is that the majority of american and british only understand 1 language. english.

it is normal for you guys to know at least 2 languages so that is why you will get a lot of western movies and be able to understand. it is not true in the reverse. the americans making an english language version of a certain film, is not because of lack of creativity it is because the original version will not be very accessible to the general populace.

power rangers is not a copied concept either. it is a strict adaptation to start off with. and for the same reasons as stated above, english actors and voices were used.

eragon is not a medieval star wars, eragon was based on a book and any similarities are due to influence. I can't even believe that you would use that as an example of copying.

and making movie adaptations of things is also not a very convincing argument. i don't see you complaining about the death note movie for example. and japan has plenty of sequels to things. i don't suppose gransazer can be accused of copying off sentai series? what about rescue fire?

I could go a lot further and start by saying that magiranger seemed to appear at around the same time as harry potter reached it's peak of popularity. i can cite many other example if you wish.

durendal, through my research long ago, I learned that a lot of the original influence for sentai was heroes like spiderman.

the original sentai series did not have a giant robot. obviously it has evolved a lot since then and grown so many original ideas.

heres a link, skip down to the part in italics. http://www.internati...uk/s/sentai.htm

It's true that Sentai and Kamen Rider or even Guyver might be influence from western superheroes but this is becos the western superheroes evolved much earlier than Asia. However the superhero concept was far from a western or eastern idea. But however making bad adaptations is not a good idea. Shotaro Ishinomori was rather pissed from sources I heard when they adapted Kamen Rider Black RX into Masked Rider. And if you are saying that Power RAngers is not a copied concept, then as a 10 year PR fan, can you explain the fact that they are using footage from the show? How creative can they get?

As for Eragon, it really sounds like a bad rip off even at the book level, the writer admitted that he was a fan of LOTR. To be frank as a noob writer myself, I asked some of my friends some of which have published a book or two, they agreed that Eragon's writer really needs to break away from his influence of his fandom and they said that the writer was probably a Star Wars fan. When I asked them about originality, in the writing world there is one thing to do is that you have to make sure you hide your sources of inspiration. And the writer of Eragon seemed to have failed in this aspect as anyone who read his book or the movie adapted from it, could tell the influence right away.

Even non-readers could see the influence right away. I asked 4-5 friends including two kids who never seen or heard about Eragon the book and the movie and all of them could see the references to Star Wars when they eventually saw the movie. Only one has read the first book amongst them and he could definitely tell the influence from Star Wars.

And I really do not know how to call this topic? Besides it was one of my members who pointed this issue out and I think this is food for thought. It's not basically an attack on the West.. Even Anime is losing its creativity as well from what I heard...

The Seen that, Done That phenomenon as so to speak.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tales

[*Jess♥]

then how about making it more generalised to 'popular media' since a grand majoprity of popular media comes from hollywood. at least the way i see it.

[Tales]

OK sure...

I am Sorry, ryuki. This topic is not created to attack media but rather as a conscience, something to ponder about.

[*Jess♥]

yeah sure it's ok. like i said, i know you guys are not vindictive.

spectre has been talking a lot about creativity going out of the window. and from what i can gather, he hardly watches any western stuff.

I can list a whole host of very original and creative stuff that is produced in my own country and in america.

perhaps you aren't even aware of a lot of it.

maybe you get exposed to a lot of stuff that is 'copied' because your media networks decide it would be more familiar or accessible to you?

[Tales]

yeah sure it's ok. like i said, i know you guys are not vindictive.

spectre has been talking a lot about creativity going out of the window. and from what i can gather, he hardly watches any western stuff.

I can list a whole host of very original and creative stuff that is produced in my own country and in america.

perhaps you aren't even aware of a lot of it.

maybe you get exposed to a lot of stuff that is 'copied' because your media networks decide it would be more familiar or accessible to you?

Actually it's not about copying but creativity in the story part also....

For Example the upcoming Avatar movie, while in the US people are getting up excited. Some of my writer friends said, "Wait a min, this sounds like a science fiction take on Pocahontas?" I wasn't prepared to commend on the similarities until I actually watch it in order to be fair to James Cameron and the hard work he put into it.

So it's like now CG effects are the hype and the story not very important. Compare today's movies with yesterday's movies, the movies of yesterday even though they are history now. They have a good story that just overflows and in some case touches your very soul in some. Today's movies except for a few are just fads that will be forgetten quickly. but Ask anyone who watched some big yesterday's blockbusters, and some can remember them.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tales

[spectre555]

spectre has been talking a lot about creativity going out of the window. and from what i can gather, he hardly watches any western stuff.

Good obeservation.

But i don't have a good opinion of western cartoons, you see, and i don't have the taste for live action drama.

Ive only got the impression that western cartoons got bad after the 90's.

And yes *sigh*

Just by looking at the gaming industry alone, i can feel entertainment is going down.

Its all about the hardware that not everyone can afford.

Anime is having its big downfall this year as well.It begun failing since 2007.

...............And it wasn't that great even before that!

Edited December 4, 2009 by spectre555

[*Jess♥]

So it's like now CG effects are the hype and the story not very important. Compare today's movies with yesterday's movies, the movies of yesterday even though they are history now. They have a good story that just overflows and in some case touches your very soul in some. Today's movies except for a few are just fads that will be forgetten quickly. but Ask anyone who watched some big yesterday's blockbusters, and some can remember them.

this is what i was talking about earlier. there is no difference now than there was before.

people were just as focused on special effects in the past. lawnmower man will be my prime example. that movie was not great by a long shot, but it was hyped to hell because of the groundbreaking CGI.

starwars has it's current status in part due to the special effects. in my personal opinion, most of the star wars movies are very poorly made. the 2nd one in particular is very badly paced and seems to drag on forever. i have fallen asleep through that film and that is a very rare occurrence for me.

there are just as many films made today with good story etc than there was in the past.

you name me the top movies from a certain year and i will name you a similar number of quality movies from this past year.

as for saying that about avatar, that it's just a retelling of pocahontas?

well there is a very important principle in storytelling.

that there are only 7 stories.

every book or film you can look at, can be compared directly to a classical story archetype.

by comparing avatar to pocahontas is a classic comparison the same ilk has been done a thousand times before.

it's as you said, the skill in storytelling is hiding where your influences are.

I would agree with that, but it's not always down to the creator, it's also down to the viewer.

if you approach something with a highly critical mind, you are going to find flaws in it. no matter how well done it is.

you could take the best film in the world and with the right mindset, you could tear it to shreds.

[*Jess♥]

to expand on one of my points, speaking from personal experience here,

when the matrix came out, everyone was fussing about the special effects. there was documentaries and all sorts, everyone was flocking to see such an amazing film with amazing techniques. that was the big fuss at the time, now years on, I still love that film so much.

when i watch that film these days, do you think i am marvelling over the special effects? of course not.

the great thing about good special effect is that you don't notice them.

[spectre555]

The problem i feel shows i watch nowadays is that they lack the "pull" factor.

I nowadays watch, finish, and is done with it for the time unless its finished its run.

[*Jess♥]

But i don't have a good opinion of western cartoons, you see, and i don't have the taste for live action drama.

i don't watch cartoons either. they are pretty tacky.

I mostly invest my time in sitcom, documentary and a few good drama like true blood.

[Tales]

The problem i feel shows i watch nowadays is that they lack the "pull" factor.

I nowadays watch, finish, and is done with it for the time unless its finished its run.

See what I mean? Everyday now seems to be based on an old work or something. There's nothing new coming up. It's like Star Wars universe and it keep expanding forever and forever. I was wondering if Lucas has anything new at all? James Cameron seems different though he keeps surprising us with every movie he made in the past. For Avatar, I really can't comment yet until I see his "little baby"<br>

Edited December 4, 2009 by Tales

[durendal]

additional,

do you think the focus on "the west" could be construed as discrimination?

please edit your first post to make it clearer and more fair. if you want to pick at certain studios etc. that is fine, but please do not label a whole group of countries and races under one banner.

you guys need to be careful because i am finding myself slightly offended.

i know you guys and i know you are not that kind of people which is why i am struggling here.

Goodness. My sincerest apologies for this. I did not realize such carelessness on my part. Let me retract my statement as I was actually referring to "Hollywood" and not the "West". Please do forgive my inappropriate statements.

I will no longer compare creativity from Hollywood to those of the "eastern" counterpart. But I will use Cannes Film Festival instead. Storywise, hollywood cannot compare to those movies being presented in the cannes film festival. These movies are made by unknown people and yet famous people laud these work. What I really hate about hollywood is that they don't know when to stop. They just keeps on milking series as long as people will continue to support them sacrificing the quality, thus the creativity issue. Usually, good creativity stems from unknown film makers trying to make a break into hollywood. Only a select few film makers maintain good creativity when their status rises. I will admit, Tim Burton never ceases to amaze me with his creativity. on the other hand, I never really did appreciate the works of M Night Shamalan. For me, if you've seen one of his movies, you've seen them all. But look at how many movies hollywood churns out in a year. With a number of subpar films coming out from hollywood, I would not question as to why people see this as lack of creativity.

[Tales]

Also Hollywood keeps making live action versions of games, books or even 2d animation. And most of these tend to be box office flops.

Check out this fella... and yes, it's M. Night's work.

As for animation, the creativity is still more or less there but it's seems to be fading...

[*Jess♥]

yes most certainly,

great stuff.

the comparison to cannes film festival is excellent.

I wholeheartedly agree.

it is hollywood and similar studios that are the problem.

well, the main problem is money and the idea of making a film to make profit.

this is going to be your problem in any media or in any industry.

the ones who have the money will not invest in any talent, because they see it as a risk.

so you see the talent coming through in independent cinema instead.

it is indeed hollywood and similar studios losing their talent. they are not investing in their 'fertiliser' and their soil is not yielding good crops.

there have been some good films coming to our cinemas though.

i don't know if this is due to dealing with different studios or due to some other influential factors. you'd have to ask an industry analyst.

films like stardust.

[Tales]

Another thing is nowadays movies are just remaking old classics or adapting old comics. Nothing new is coming out these days like what Spectre has said. Anime is also facing the same problem.

Relying on old comic books or novels have a problem to them; adaptation decay. And I do not have to tell others that the movie versions tend to have left out sometimes important aspect of the story. This on the other hand can affect the popularity of the book especially among what Sabrina said, people who do not read the book.

People who have read the original will have their eyes sharpened to a spear point and can immediately tell you if the filmmakers have not adapted their beloved work properly.